Next Summer Expansion :10months: :somehowCCPcannotfixhybridsandsupersatthesametimebecausebothrequiremonthsandmonthsofthoughtthatshouldhavebeenhappeningforthelastthreeyears: :CCP:

Weren't Hybrids the best DPS before Projectile were?

I think missiles or lasers are up next, as much as i despise them.

Oh you can dare ask... getting an answer is another story altogether!

Weren't Hybrids the best DPS before Projectile were?

I think missiles or lasers are up next, as much as i despise them.

They still have the best raw DPS, the problem is applying that DPS to the target.

They still have the best raw DPS, the problem is applying that DPS to the target.

Well, throw a tracking computer on there, then.

I'm trained up to T2 large hybrids so you'd expect me to be backing any kind of Gallente 'balancing', but i just don't see how they're as broken as everyone claims.

IMHO it's not so much the hybrids, it's more the hulls. The guns themselves aren't that bad, it's more that with a lot of Gallente hulls, even with max skills it's harder than it is with other races to fit best T2 weapons AND a half-decent tank AND tackle, without really slowing the ship down to the point where its unable to apply all that dps except in highly situational circumstances.

What hybrids lack is versatility. Sure, blasters have high dps, but they're stuck with kin/therm. They're dependent on cap. They have poor tracking for their very short range. OTOH, I'm not sure what changes could be made to the weapons themselves without breaking them. (And rails are just weak.)



This. We'll put the shortest range weapons on the slowest hulls because trololololo.

Gallente ships are green.

Ten topics on MT will and have been answered before a dev will dare to even consider posting in here.

the jove felt sorry for gallente having such fail weapons for so long and are going to sell gallente some jovian plasma weapons.

plasma beams (long range) and plasma bursts (short range)

at least one would wish this

Unfortunaly CCP will pretend the problem does not exist.

One of the reasons is, that it would indirectly mean the devs responsible for the balance have buffed missiles, projectile weapons and laser to much.

They could start by taking back the old resistance nerfs to shield and armor. Shields get 10% more explosive resistance and armor have +10% EM resistance again. Lasers would still be effective but would have a harder time against omni-tanked armor ships and minmatar projectile weapons would have more trouble with shield-ships. I would also recommend to make changes to EM ammo so that it deals more explo/kinetic and less EM to bring projectiles again in line with other weapons.

the jove felt sorry for gallente having such fail weapons for so long and are going to sell gallente some jovian plasma weapons.

plasma beams (long range) and plasma bursts (short range)

at least one would wish this

what is Gallente?

Never heard of them

what is Gallente?

Never heard of them

Well when you use numbers and only believe on those then you are blind to anything else.

So do graphics show hybrids being a good dps weapon system? -quite sure

Do raw numbers show blasters are omgfkingpown? - very sure

Do those graphics care about real game conditions? -impossible

Hybrids shoot stuff and kill stuff so, for them everything goes like intended.

For the meanwhile train minmatar, autocanons & artillery. Start having fun

Because it takes CCP 10 months to change some numbers in the database.

you see, they have to fill out the change of number form in triplicate and submit it in-person to the mighty CCP database master. Unfortunately, he lives at the top of the tallest volcano in iceland, in a home accessible only by a mountainous path twice a year when the snows abate. Therefore, no balance changes ever.

haha, just kidding, they just have to press some buttons. Sucks to be us

There needs to be a Followship of the Database. You have my trollface.jpg if you carry the burden.

PS. Why do you have more likes than I?

There needs to be a Followship of the Database. You have my trollface.jpg if you carry the burden.

PS. Why do you have more likes than I?

Hey, do i look like a hobbit to you? I'm Aragorn, i get to bang the sexy elf and bring peace and prosperity to the realms of men.

(also, i have more likes because i'm a better poster, everyone knows it. Haha, just kidding, the likes system is useless)

And the sexy elf would be Milla, in bold yellow capital letters?

you've now destroyed lord of the rings for me forever

I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY

you've now destroyed lord of the rings for me forever

I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY

I seriously think that the only use for Gallente ships is running missions, and high sec missions at that because they definitely are as useless as a screen door on a submarine for PvP.

Alpheias wins!

BRUTALITY

- Myrmidon drone bandwith was nerfed to hell, just to remove one of the last viable Gallente PvP ships.

I think there needs to be some sort of tracking buff with blasters, since when you fight at ranges that close transversal velocity becomes a problem and extra tracking is needed to compensate.

Because it takes CCP 10 months to change some numbers in the database.

So with all this Dev attention in GD today, i though maybe it would be a good time to ask if a Gallente and/or hybrid turret fix is being planned for the near term. I think many Gallente agree that some kind of fix is needed here.

I personally have no problem fitting a fully t2 fit Megathron with Heavy Neutron Blaster IIs. I even have enough pg/cpu for a Nuet or RR if needed. The Mega is fine and blasters are fine. You can even fit drones, 125m3 of them. So you have a great selection of drones to complement your set up.

Rails suck.

So fix rails, leave blasters alone.

eve online

It is not just the Megathron and Blasters are certainly not fine. In a RR fleet you have probably at least a single plate, probably more and your ship is slow a slow ass l and with a weapon system that can barely hit anyhting above the 20km range, a blaster mega is not a good choice for a RR fleet because of these penalties.

Also the problem with blasters is not just the mega, brutix, die-most, hyperion are also supposed to be blaster ships. Only that the mega is one of the better among a number of poor choices does not say blasters are fine.

I love me some Hybrids! *insert random GIR noises from Invader Zim here*

Also CCP Soundwave mentioned in an interview at PAX this year that, "After Christmas, there will probably be some changes pushed out to fix this issue." In response to a question about Hybrids.

video games

Missiles still let you choose to shoot at your opponent's resistance hole

Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?

Have you ever had a Taranis in your back? I can tell you: Blasters hurt a lot!

I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.

many Gallente agree

Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?

That would be interesting, if balancing were done on a month by month basis. It gets pretty old after several years though.

That would be interesting, if balancing were done on a month by month basis. It gets pretty old after several years though.

I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.

I've been thinking... what if to balance Gallente ships, CCP added Small and Medium sentry drones, and then made them so all sentries could move with the launching ship instead of being strictly stationary?

Gallente pilots would be able to fill in those middle ranges with drone damage, applying damage before being in blaster range or supplementing rail damage in the medium ranges. Would that overpower Gallente, or still leave them underpowered? How would you abuse that kind of drone mechanic?

I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.

the only time where blasters have the advantage is as an ambush gank ship. Have a quicker mate lock a target down. you warp in in mega/hyperion/proteus at zero. Only then is its massive dps useful in killing an enemy before his buddies can respond. howevrr unless you get the drop on an enemy you will struggle.

Also CCP Soundwave mentioned in an interview at PAX this year that, "After Christmas, there will probably be some changes pushed out to fix this issue." In response to a question about Hybrids.

It's almost as if there is a sort of mass amnesia regarding blasters during these arguments. Like no one remembers blasters too, have fall off and that, on bonused hull like gallente blaster boats, better fall off (relatively) than autocannons on most minmitar ships. With decent skills and null ammo a mega can project dps out to 40-50 km.

The next secret i: tracking enhancers > magnetic stabalizers. So if you have 3 lows upgrades you fit 2 TE and 1 magstab not 3magstab or not even 1te 2stab.

So in short the blasters aren't broken. The slowpoke ships with low CPU are the problem. I might even go so far as to suggest that t2 blaster amok have no tracking penalty or even boost it but apply some other affect like even MORE cap usage or affect the ship hull like t2 missiles.

...

But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks.

I don't like the word "probably". That's kind of a universal "get out of jail free" card when used in that context. If hybrids do get a buff, then CCP can claim they came through on their promise.

Or (the more likely scenario) a year from now, when we're still asking for some hybrid loving and someone claims CCP lied about fixing hybrids referencing Soundwave's quote at PAX, CCP can "honestly" reply that there were no promises made and they only said it was probable that they'd look into fixing hybrids.

IMHO it's not so much the hybrids, it's more the hulls. The guns themselves aren't that bad, it's more that with a lot of Gallente hulls, even with max skills it's harder than it is with other races to fit best T2 weapons AND a half-decent tank AND tackle, without really slowing the ship down to the point where its unable to apply all that dps except in highly situational circumstances. Perhaps rails just need a bit of a damage boost to bring them more in line with artys, and heavily rail-oriented Caldari hulls could be tweaked a bit too; but the real problem is that Gallente hulls haven't been updated to fit in with the nerfs and buffs that have happened to the other races' ships and weps over the years. They need a bit more PG and CPU now (although how to do that without making them FOTM for other weapon systems is tricky - perhaps they could have more PG and CPU efficiency only for hybrid fitting - like an "affinity" with hybrids or something).

To play devil's advocate, on the other hand, MMOS always seem to have an "IWIN" race and a race that's really hard to get the best out of. Some people thrive on a challenge, while others avoid it.

But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks.

IMHO it's not so much the hybrids, it's more the hulls. The guns themselves aren't that bad, it's more that with a lot of Gallente hulls, even with max skills it's harder than it is with other races to fit best T2 weapons AND a half-decent tank AND tackle, without really slowing the ship down to the point where its unable to apply all that dps except in highly situational circumstances. Perhaps rails just need a bit of a damage boost to bring them more in line with artys, and heavily rail-oriented Caldari hulls could be tweaked a bit too; but the real problem is that Gallente hulls haven't been updated to fit in with the nerfs and buffs that have happened to the other races' ships and weps over the years. They need a bit more PG and CPU now (although how to do that without making them FOTM for other weapon systems is tricky - perhaps they could have more PG and CPU efficiency only for hybrid fitting - like an "affinity" with hybrids or something).

To play devil's advocate, on the other hand, MMOS always seem to have an "IWIN" race and a race that's really hard to get the best out of. Some people thrive on a challenge, while others avoid it.

But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks.

I like blasters

So with all this Dev attention in GD today, i though maybe it would be a good time to ask if a Gallente and/or hybrid turret fix is being planned for the near term. I think many Gallente agree that some kind of fix is needed here.

I really don't think Gallente is that broken. Nor the Hybrids that out of power. They're just not "modern" with the current state of EVE warfare. Blasters tear **** up still - fact.

You just need to get nice and close :)

While this is true - blasters are effective against same-size ships once you've got into range - there are some caveats to add.

The first one is the one of getting into range. Putting the shortest-range turrets on slow, armoured hulls makes little sense, especially when their competitors are in fast shield boats with lots of room for gyros and TEs.

Second, "same-size ship". Pulse and ACs have the ability to apply DPS to smaller ships by trading range for transversal. Blasters are the only turret that has neither the range nor tracking to effectively do this. This is not justificable.

Third, and possibly most importantly, Pulse and ACs are also capable of tearing **** up at close range, but also have the med-range option, which begs the question "Why use a blasterboat?" Blasters need a much greater applied damage advantage over ACs and Pulse at blasters' optimal. Why do ACs, which are supposed to be used in falloff (hence the AC-boats' high speeds) deserve tracking that is often superior to blasters? Why should ACs have selectable damage types to increase their applied damage in the small-scale engagements that blasterboats are designed for?

Sure, you can increase the applied damage advantage of blasters, relative to ACs and Pulse, by increasing blaster damage and tracking. But I feel that the magnitude of the boost necessary to give blasters the advantage that they deserve close up would be deeply problematic, and we should also look at the other half of the problem, meaning reducing Pulse and AC applied damage close up. This might entail looking at reducing Pulse and AC tracking, and possible AC base damage too.

Well, throw a tracking computer on there, then.

I'm trained up to T2 large hybrids so you'd expect me to be backing any kind of Gallente 'balancing', but i just don't see how they're as broken as everyone claims.

I love the "probably" in that sentence.

While this is true - blasters are effective against same-size ships once you've got into range - there are some caveats to add.

The first one is the one of getting into range. Putting the shortest-range turrets on slow, armoured hulls makes little sense, especially when their competitors are in fast shield boats with lots of room for gyros and TEs.

Second, "same-size ship". Pulse and ACs have the ability to apply DPS to smaller ships by trading range for transversal. Blasters are the only turret that has neither the range nor tracking to effectively do this. This is not justificable.

Why should ACs have selectable damage types to increase their applied damage in the small-scale engagements that blasterboats are designed for?

Blasters have as good, sometimes better tracking than Autocannons. Tracking is really less of an issue for them on average.


Dual 425MM Autocannon II
0.057 rad/sec

Electron Blaster Cannon II
0.05 rad/sec

Ion Blaster Cannon II
0.046 rad/sec

Neutron Blaster Cannon II
0.0433 rad/sec

800MM Repeating Artillery II
0.0432 rad/sec

nerfing one thing to balance another sounds like half-assed fix tbh

Blasters have as good, sometimes better tracking than Autocannons. Tracking is really less of an issue for them on average.

I'm not sure Blaster boats were specifically designed for small-scale engagements. I think they were designed to follow a general template of being "between" Autocannons and Lasers in terms of range. Not favoring optimal or falloff more.

nerfing one thing to balance another sounds like half-assed fix tbh

as I constantly say however, a damage boost to (medium and large) blasters should be accompanied by several other changes in the guns and ships themselves, like cutting their optimal and falloff even further and increasing ship mobility.

in blasters, the damage projection vehicle should be, imho, the ship itself and for that blasters should be even shorter range but much more damaging.

Yeah, "design" may the wrong word. What I'm trying to say is something along the lines of that the weapons with the shortest ranges - i.e., blasters - are the least useful in large-scale combat

[quote=Gypsio III]

That is precisely where they are the LEAST useful. Because in largescale combat most targets will be out of your range and due to high amount of firepower flying around, you wont have time to reach the targets either before they are dead, or you are dead.

That's exactly what I said!

[quote=Joelleaveek]Also CCP Soundwave mentioned in an interview at PAX this year that, "After Christmas, there will probably be some changes pushed out to fix this issue." In response to a question about Hybrids.