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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:09:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Sobach
Edited by: Sobach on 14/07/2009 01:13:51
Originally by: LA RUCA
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If they ban guns whats next? Knives? and then mehbe OH NO BUTTAH NEEF OF DEF!
apparently the next thing would be kitchen knifes, as "...there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all."
Linkage
if something like this ever passes in UK... I feel sorry for you guys.
Why feel sorry for us when many people in the UK can live their entire life without seeing a real gun unless it's carried by a soldier, policeman or farmer?
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:13:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 14/07/2009 02:13:03
Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: Sobach
Edited by: Sobach on 14/07/2009 01:13:51
Originally by: LA RUCA
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If they ban guns whats next? Knives? and then mehbe OH NO BUTTAH NEEF OF DEF!
apparently the next thing would be kitchen knifes, as "...there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all."
Linkage
if something like this ever passes in UK... I feel sorry for you guys.
Why feel sorry for us when many people in the UK can live their entire life without seeing a real gun unless it's carried by a soldier, policeman or farmer?
It was in refrence to the mention of the knife ban he linked.... What are you talking about?
I have a hard time beliveing you've never seen a real kitchen knife that wasn't carried by a farmer, soldier or policeman.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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MechaViridis
Amarr
The Program
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Olleybear
Originally by: MechaViridis
In the US:
Pro-2nd amendment
--By banning guns, people can no longer defend themselves from criminals
--In a life threatening situation, seconds matter, when police are minutes away
--Gun education and proper training is the answer, not restriction.
To truly appreciate the 2nd amendment in the USA, one has to undertand the true reason it is there. The 2nd amendment isn't there for the reasons above. The real reason for the 2nd amendment is:
To protect the citizens from the government.
This reason alone is all that is needed to keep the second amendment. Those against the 2nd amendment will bring up how guns are ineffective vs armored helicoptors and tanks, so the citizens dont have a need for guns. They couldn't be more wrong.
How long has the US been in Iraq? There are still bombs going off there. Now imagine 300million americans, half of them armed. You get the picture.
Originally by: MechaViridis
But imagine this: What if the laws of high-sec banned guns on ships, and anyone with guns on their ships was given GCC. Also, to balance this, CONCORD responses would be delayed slightly longer.
How do you guys picture high-sec if these changes were made? Better? Worse? Epic-lulzy?
Dont see the point of doing this.
Those points are still valid for today. Laws constantly have new meanings in an ever-changing world. If you were to take away the 2nd amendment, those consequences would still prevail. And the point of this thread? The point of any thread. Simple discussion on something. In this case a thought-experiment.
Xfire -- Seph31 |
yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:25:00 -
[34]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 14/07/2009 02:26:21
Originally by: Jin Nib
I have a hard time beliveing you've never seen a real kitchen knife that wasn't carried by a farmer, soldier or policeman.
People will always harp on about banning whatever weapon is most commonly being used, my point was that our society has so little gun crime the carebears are trying to ban kitchen knives.
Having lived and worked in some very violent places in Africa and the Middle East i'm happy to be in Scotland where you rarely even see policemen carrying guns.
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.07.14 02:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: yani dumyat
Edited by: yani dumyat on 14/07/2009 02:26:21
Originally by: Jin Nib
I have a hard time beliveing you've never seen a real kitchen knife that wasn't carried by a farmer, soldier or policeman.
People will always harp on about banning whatever weapon is most commonly being used, my point was that our society has so little gun crime the carebears are trying to ban kitchen knives.
Having lived and worked in some very violent places in Africa and the Middle East i'm happy to be in Scotland where you rarely even see policemen carrying guns.
Yes it is fairly comforting to live in a place where guns are not required for police work. But I feel that the would be the case whether or not gun bans were in effect.
The reason being that bans don't affect violence. People will be violent with or without guns, just as they'll be violent with or without knifes. And while I belive resources may play a part in being an aggravating factor for violence, it is not the general 'reason' for it. Culture has much more of a role to play in setting up violence I belive.
For instance when any use of violence is looked at as bad or at least treated in the same manner as violence done for the sake of evil means then it's likely to proliferate and not be used as the mere tool of action that it is. If a man defending his home shoots an armed intruder and ends up in the docket for gun possession, one has to wonder where the moral grounds of the law (in general terms not just the gun law) lies. Every-time the law makes a criminal of the civil or morally integral person it undermines the peace of that society.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2009.07.14 06:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Olleybear
To truly appreciate the 2nd amendment in the USA, one has to undertand the true reason it is there. The 2nd amendment isn't there for the reasons above. The real reason for the 2nd amendment is:
To protect the citizens from the government.
This reason alone is all that is needed to keep the second amendment. Those against the 2nd amendment will bring up how guns are ineffective vs armored helicoptors and tanks, so the citizens dont have a need for guns. They couldn't be more wrong.
How long has the US been in Iraq? There are still bombs going off there. Now imagine 300million americans, half of them armed. You get the picture.
This man speaks the truth. Here in the UK we lost our guns over the last hundred years, and now criminals just knife us in alleyways. So now the government is trying to ban all types of knife and limit who can buy a knife. Its ******ed.
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.07.14 08:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Olleybear
To truly appreciate the 2nd amendment in the USA, one has to undertand the true reason it is there. The 2nd amendment isn't there for the reasons above. The real reason for the 2nd amendment is:
To protect the citizens from the government.
This reason alone is all that is needed to keep the second amendment. Those against the 2nd amendment will bring up how guns are ineffective vs armored helicoptors and tanks, so the citizens dont have a need for guns. They couldn't be more wrong.
How long has the US been in Iraq? There are still bombs going off there. Now imagine 300million americans, half of them armed. You get the picture.
This man speaks the truth. Here in the UK we lost our guns over the last hundred years, and now criminals just knife us in alleyways. So now the government is trying to ban all types of knife and limit who can buy a knife. Its ******ed.
It is rather silly given that knifes are one of the easiest things to manufacture. It's hard to control somthing that can be made with a length of rebar and a sidewalk. I think it also highlights the flaws in gun control.
I find it disturbing that one of the worlds most successful long term societies is now so concerned over its citezenship that they don't trust them with knifes. Fascist havn't won by a landslide over there but they gained some serious ground, if that doesn't point out how its own citizens feel about their treatment I don't know what does.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.07.14 09:34:00 -
[38]
I was under the impression that the 2nd Amendment was to make sure the government didn't get fresh with civil liberties .. nothing like an armed militia ready to march to keep the bureaucrats in line.
All the "protection of self/property" and what not is of newer origin.
What would a change like that actually add to the game as it is? Today you bring guns and get insta-gibbed when they are used - removal would cut down on the hub can-flippers I suppose but no other major change.
Delaying Concord spawns achieves nothing since you are dead the second they arrive due to their OP nature and the fact that evading them is a no-no.
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Roxanna Kell
The Dirty Dozen
Quarantine Zone
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Posted - 2009.07.14 09:58:00 -
[39]
IF a man really wants to kill you,
he can poison you.
strangel you.
Home made explosives.
Push you off the edge of a building.
Chainsaw.
hammers.
Put hair in his food and he dies from hairball.
He can write a fake political statement about you.
Death by Tray.
Lock em up in small space and let them rott.
Kiss you with poisenous lipstick on them.
Putting a mirror in fron of your face....etc
BAN ALL THAT
Quote:
Knowledge is having a forward scout in a roaming op, wisdom is to scout the rear as well.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Star's Dust Industrie
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:47:00 -
[40]
2nd amendement is paranond imho.
If americans are willing to kill americans what could I as an european say ? Stop it or keep on ?
Stop it obviously...
So my logic is against guns in the US (anywhere btw) :)
Fetchez la vache !
moar(tm) < soon(tm) :(
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:28:00 -
[41]
The U.S. 2nd amendment has nothing to do with shooting criminals, animals or clay pigeons.
It was put in place to allow U.S. citizens to remain armed so they can shoot tyrants.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sobach
Edited by: Sobach on 14/07/2009 01:13:51
Originally by: LA RUCA
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If they ban guns whats next? Knives? and then mehbe OH NO BUTTAH NEEF OF DEF!
apparently the next thing would be kitchen knifes, as "...there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all."
Linkage
if something like this ever passes in UK... I feel sorry for you guys.
It is already illiegal to carry a knife around with you in the streets in the UK and I am glad for it. Makes my job a hell of a lot safer
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:44:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
2nd amendement is paranond imho.
If US citizens are willing to keep their rights what could I as an European say ? Stop it or keep on ?
Should keep my nose out of other peoples business obviously
So my logic for being against guns is brainwashed into me
Please, come to my door and tell me you are taking my guns, I welcome it.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:45:00 -
[44]
Ultimately when it comes to weapons the genie is out of the bottle and has been since the first human realized he could use his hunting spear to hunt his fellow man. We live in a world where "evil" dictates how "good" acts and having morality on your side in such matters is hardly worth the electrical impulses used to think of such things as you lay in a pool of your own blood in your living room due to the gunshot wound you recieved from the robber who determined the value of your life to be the cost of the bullet he used on you.
On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
2nd amendement is paranond imho.
If US citizens are willing to keep their rights what could I as an European say ? Stop it or keep on ?
Should keep my nose out of other peoples business obviously
So my logic for being against guns is brainwashed into me
Please, come to my door and tell me you are taking my guns, I welcome it.
Not brainwashed, we just dont undistand why Americans seem intent on killing each other.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: baltec1
Not brainwashed, we just dont undistand why Americans seem intent on killing each other.
I am going to ask you a question and then also prove your statement false in several ways.
My question: Can you show me a country where its citizens do not commit capital crimes against each other.
Now for the second half of my statement. Are you talking about US citizens or are you including South America, Central America, and Canada into the mix because we have no control over what they do.
As for intent well, I'm a gun owner typing this message from my desk at work which means either I'm not intent on killing anybody (as you claim) or I haven't been caught yet.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:31:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: baltec1
Not brainwashed, we just dont undistand why Americans seem intent on killing each other.
I am going to ask you a question and then also prove your statement false in several ways.
My question: Can you show me a country where its citizens do not commit capital crimes against each other.
Now for the second half of my statement. Are you talking about US citizens or are you including South America, Central America, and Canada into the mix because we have no control over what they do.
As for intent well, I'm a gun owner typing this message from my desk at work which means either I'm not intent on killing anybody (as you claim) or I haven't been caught yet.
I refer to the fact that north America has one of the worlds worst gun crime/death rates yet just about everyone over there insists that getting guns easily makes them safer.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: baltec1
Not brainwashed, we just dont undistand why Americans seem intent on killing each other.
I am going to ask you a question and then also prove your statement false in several ways.
My question: Can you show me a country where its citizens do not commit capital crimes against each other.
Now for the second half of my statement. Are you talking about US citizens or are you including South America, Central America, and Canada into the mix because we have no control over what they do.
As for intent well, I'm a gun owner typing this message from my desk at work which means either I'm not intent on killing anybody (as you claim) or I haven't been caught yet.
I refer to the fact that north America has one of the worlds worst gun crime/death rates yet just about everyone over there insists that getting guns easily makes them safer.
Ah generalist statements.
1. Sight your fact please. Wikipedia doesnt count.
2. Worlds worst? Are you not counting places like africa and the middle east?
3. If everyone in the US insisted on getting easy gun access the 2nd amendment wouldnt be such a hot topic over here.
On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: baltec1
I refer to the fact that north America has one of the worlds worst gun crime/death rates yet just about everyone over there insists that getting guns easily makes them safer.
Gun crime worse than Africa, the middle east, Brazil, Peru, and the several smaller Asian territories?
Death rates worse than China, Russia, the Middle east, Africa, Brazil, and Mexico?
Did you even check your facts? What are your sources? Do you read the Daily sun often?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:57:00 -
[50]
And here they come with desperate shouts and screams.
Fact is, as one of the most advanced countries in the world your recond on public safety when it comes to guns sucks.
In the UK our last mass shooting at a school was over a decade ago, USA has a few every year. This alone speaks volumes.
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:59:00 -
[51]
Originally by: baltec1
And here they come with desperate shouts and screams.
Fact is, as one of the most advanced countries in the world your recond on public safety when it comes to guns sucks.
In the UK our last mass shooting at a school was over a decade ago, USA has a few every year. This alone speaks volumes.
We used our guns to run you out of our country.
We remember how well that worked for us so we keep our guns handy.
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: baltec1
And here they come with desperate shouts and screams.
Fact is, as one of the most advanced countries in the world your recond on public safety when it comes to guns sucks.
In the UK our last mass shooting at a school was over a decade ago, USA has a few every year. This alone speaks volumes.
And here in UK we cannot own a gun unless you are a farmer, and its only a shotgun? Seriously its a stupid comparison when any non-criminal in america can buy a pistol, rifle, pump shotgun etc which are far more lethal.
Its just the price of having freedom. People die. People live a long time when the government has constricted them.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:08:00 -
[53]
Originally by: baltec1
And here they come with desperate shouts and screams.
Fact is, as one of the most advanced countries in the world your recond on public safety when it comes to guns sucks.
In the UK our last mass shooting at a school was over a decade ago, USA has a few every year. This alone speaks volumes.
Go ahead and continue failing in your argument, ignoring that while your gun crime has gone down all other crime has gone up significantly (notably knife crime as you said yourself).
Also please continue reading and believing all the crap you hear fed to you by your dicta...I mean anti-gun lobbyist who "want to keep you safe".
What a joke you are sir.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:15:00 -
[54]
A problem with gun ownership is that the guy with the gun always gets shot first.
A burglar with a gun always has the advantage because they know an attack is going to take place. In South Africa it was general opinion that if you were being carjacked the worst thing you could do is reach for your gun because even if you killed the first guy the second criminal would kill you.
On the other hand if you put your hands up and let them take your car then you get to keep your life and the insurance company give you a new car too :)
In eve terms the criminals set it up as a gank where the odds are heavily stacked in their favour.
It would be interesting to see some statistics about who usually dies first, the armed burglar or the armed homeowner and my money's on the homeowner.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:24:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Go ahead and continue failing in your argument, ignoring that while your gun crime has gone down all other crime has gone up significantly (notably knife crime as you said yourself).
Also please continue reading and believing all the crap you hear fed to you by your dicta...I mean anti-gun lobbyist who "want to keep you safe".
What a joke you are sir.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: TimMc
Its just the price of having freedom. People die. People live a long time when the government has constricted them.
I can participate in any form of career / hobby / life i wish to lead with the added bonus of a low crime rate because we have a welfare system that that reduces the need for people to steal and gun laws that mean i never have to worry about being shot.
In many ways i am more free than you friend. 
Originally by: baltec1
In the UK our last mass shooting at a school was over a decade ago, USA has a few every year. This alone speaks volumes.
QFT
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Sobach
Gallente
Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Ah generalist statements.
1. Sight your fact please. Wikipedia doesnt count.
Easy, here it is:
Linkage
As you can see, this clearly shows that the UK's policies has done a much better job at protecting its people. I wholeheartedly agrees that the US should emulate the UK's effort, and with Obama at the helm, we'll certainly head down the right path.
*goes to clean and polish his gun*
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sobach
As you can see, this clearly shows that the UK's policies has done a much better job at protecting its people. I wholeheartedly agrees that the US should emulate the UK's effort, and with Obama at the helm, we'll certainly head down the right path.
You get reliable information from the daily mail????
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:11:00 -
[59]
Originally by: baltec1
Oh ****, the almighty Baltic hit me with another one of his noble prize winning arguments! What will I ever do?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:28:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: baltec1
Oh ****, the almighty Baltic hit me with another one of his noble prize winning arguments! What will I ever do?
Well you still havent adressed the school shootings yet...
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