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att: CCP. Miners v's Suicide Gankers, a Risk v's Reward imbalance.

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damgood85 Gallente Booty Grabber Cartel The Terminal Clan Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.17 17:46:00 - [31] I HAVE 17MILL CAN I HELP
Armoured C Gallente Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.17 18:11:00 - [32] Originally by: damgood85 I HAVE 17MILL CAN I HELP can i have your stuff
Atillius Caldari The SOS Brigade	Posted - 2009.07.17 18:39:00 - [33] First thing to remember there IS NO relative safety in EVE....as soon as you undock...your are consenting to PvP regardless if its high sec. Suicide Ganks came about partly from Marco Miners. It is a profitable mechanic of the game. Mining should be down in a fast frigate if you are in a system with lots of people, if you want to play it safe. Use your system map to check the statistics of a certain system to see how "safe" it is. Never Marco Mine...unless you like the risk and can accept being popped. Mine with a fleet, and always stay aligned to a station, ready to go. Your post is very much like whining....its EVE dude...PVP is everywhere, no one is safe. If you want to gather resources in peace, then try another game, 'cuz its not happening here unless you put time and planning into your mining ops. I have 3 accounts, 1 -10 HAM Pirate, 1 can-flipping CovertOps, high sec pirate, and 1 industrial miner. I have only been playing a year and a half, but I have yet to be suicide ganked in high sec. Simply because when I mine, I draw no attention to myself by flying a freighter or exhumer.....its not smart when solo. I pry on Marco miners and haulers. I, like many others get kicks from griefing some carebear and I look forward to the hatemails....Its a part of EVE. Being that the game market is player driven....it make many types of profit possible...you just have to find that niche....diversify...run missions, mine smartly, whatever. If it doesn't work....then change it. Good Luck...I hope to be seeing you in my sights soon!
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Atillius First thing to remember there IS NO relative safety in EVE....as soon as you undock...your are consenting to PvP regardless if its high sec. Suicide Ganks came about partly from Marco Miners. It is a profitable mechanic of the game. Mining should be down in a fast frigate if you are in a system with lots of people, if you want to play it safe. Use your system map to check the statistics of a certain system to see how "safe" it is. Never Marco Mine...unless you like the risk and can accept being popped. Mine with a fleet, and always stay aligned to a station, ready to go. Your post is very much like whining....its EVE dude...PVP is everywhere, no one is safe. If you want to gather resources in peace, then try another game, 'cuz its not happening here unless you put time and planning into your mining ops. I have 3 accounts, 1 -10 HAM Pirate, 1 can-flipping CovertOps, high sec pirate, and 1 industrial miner. I have only been playing a year and a half, but I have yet to be suicide ganked in high sec. Simply because when I mine, I draw no attention to myself by flying a freighter or exhumer.....its not smart when solo. I pry on Marco miners and haulers. I, like many others get kicks from griefing some carebear and I look forward to the hatemails....Its a part of EVE. Being that the game market is player driven....it make many types of profit possible...you just have to find that niche....diversify...run missions, mine smartly, whatever. If it doesn't work....then change it. Good Luck...I hope to be seeing you in my sights soon! Your comment is by far and away the only honest and reasonably intelligent reply thus far and were on the second page. The rest of the comments I categorize in the 'Lolz, L2P, We rock u suck, I have no brain' department. Now let me be honest back, I value your opinion but I do believe you misunderstood my intentions. I don't want to stop suicide gankers, nor have I ever had trouble with it personally. What I do want is more in the way of balance. I am not asking for CCP to buff concord, not am I asking for mining ships to get a buff in their tank. What I want to see is a removal of minerals coming in from mission loot, making miners the only real source of minerals. With a profession that needs support and defence just to do its job properly, it shouldn't have to compete with the already rich mission runners. Dropping T1 meta level 0 modules is bad for the game economy, it gives far too much in minerals and if nor reprocessed, compete with the module production from the readily available BPO's. Isk per hour is a given standard in efficiency, mission runners work on isk per hour, miners run on isk per hour. The only people who don't are PvPers and thats understandable, to quantify their profession in isk is dubious. Other than that, I never liked the insurance system, it is based off a set value, it doesn't take into account T2 prices and it gives payouts to those destroyed by concord or who are at war and loose their ship directly from combat in that war. If your criminally flagged and destroyed by of with concord assistance you shouldn't get insurance. Its not a hard concept. If your a bank robber and you crash your car, do you think you can call insurance? Good luck. No insurance will pay if your in a war, it never happens. Collateral damage is immense in war and insurance companies don't want to foot the bill. They can't afford it. Nor can the insurance companies in eve. If it isn't worth their while and they make a massive loss, which they would be if they were a company. They would go bankrupt. Basically put, I think the insurance system needs a shakeup. It needs a dynamic payout, based on the average price over the last month for that ship in Jita. Jita is here to stay, CCP should make use of its statistics in game. This way T2 gets a real insurance. Thats all I am saying, just some changes to enhance EvE, not destroy PvP.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Nian Banks Your comment is by far and away the only honest and reasonably intelligent reply thus far and were on the second page. The rest of the comments I categorize in the 'Lolz, L2P, We rock u suck, I have no brain' department. You need to read more closely. Quote: If your criminally flagged and destroyed by &/ with concord assistance you shouldn't get insurance. Its not a hard concept. If your a bank robber and you crash your car, do you think you can call insurance? Good luck. No insurance will pay if your in a war, it never happens. Collateral damage is immense in war and insurance companies don't want to foot the bill. They can't afford it. Nor can the insurance companies in eve. If it isn't worth their while and they make a massive loss, which they would be if they were a company. They would go bankrupt. To quote the famous sig: it's a game mechanic, not a business. What you're suggesting would hurt PvP immensely, and only benefit carebears — a benefit they don't need. Your suggestion would also hurt the market something fierce since it would allow "stuff I mine is free"-numpties to completely run the show. The balance you want was given last fall, and was at that point overbalanced in favour of the victimes. If anything, those changes need to be scaled back to introduce more danger back into the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:35:00 - [36] Nian Banks- While you do have some valid points (the game design being broken, mining's value is being ruined by loot drop tables etc. etc.) the rest of your post is completely wrong and way off base and here is why: Have you ever heard the expression 'low hanging fruit'? The phrase implies the concept that the easiest targets (the lowest, most easily accessible fruit on the tree) will be the first to be picked. You and your ilk are low hanging fruit. You're lazy, you're greedy and you want something for nothing. It's easy to not be suicide ganked. You have no concept of just how difficult it really is to accomplish a suicide kill in high sec, particularly after the numerous Concord buffs. Your post verifies this. You seem to think that the loot rewards dropped by a an average Hulk is really worthwhile. It's not. T2 modules? Are you serious? Have you checked the markets lately? T2 is dirt cheap. But I'm getting off the point here. I agree that mining 'isn't worth the time'. It's too easy. It's too simple, any bot can do it. I think that the entire mining system in Eve should be redesigned so that it's much more interactive and would give players a chance to really increase their mining yield if they were to interact with the game dynamically while mining. For that matter I think that all belts should be moved to a dynamic system similar to exploration so that an asteroid belt is more of a 'find' to be protected and defended than something that is static in a system where anyone can simply warp in and do business. I agree that insurance is bad, but not for the same reason you think. Insurance needs to go. Completely. It's putting artificial limits on the cost of materials and is therefor bad for the game. Insurance doesn't need to be removed for Concord losses, it needs to be removed for all losses. Still want to remove insurance now? I'll bet you don't if you have to either see it all stay or all go. You're probably not man enough to stomach playing the game without insurance entirely. Suicide ganking is good for the Eve economy. It provides change. It provides opportunity for industrial characters to create materials and goods to be sold, both to the attackers and targets. A lot of industrial characters (not carebears) are very happy about suicide ganking. The only players who are upset about the situation are C A R E B E A R S such as yourself that are too inept/lazy/greedy to avoid being killed. There are plenty of options to avoid being killed. Use one. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:35:00 - [37] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Nian Banks Your comment is by far and away the only honest and reasonably intelligent reply thus far and were on the second page. The rest of the comments I categorize in the 'Lolz, L2P, We rock u suck, I have no brain' department. You need to read more closely. Quote: If your criminally flagged and destroyed by &/ with concord assistance you shouldn't get insurance. Its not a hard concept. If your a bank robber and you crash your car, do you think you can call insurance? Good luck. No insurance will pay if your in a war, it never happens. Collateral damage is immense in war and insurance companies don't want to foot the bill. They can't afford it. Nor can the insurance companies in eve. If it isn't worth their while and they make a massive loss, which they would be if they were a company. They would go bankrupt. To quote the famous sig: it's a game mechanic, not a business. What you're suggesting would hurt PvP immensely, and only benefit carebears ù a benefit they don't need. Your suggestion would also hurt the market something fierce since it would allow "stuff I mine is free"-numpties to completely run the show. The balance you want was given last fall, and was at that point overbalanced in favour of the victimes. If anything, those changes need to be scaled back to introduce more danger back into the game. Removing insurance from concord loss and war plus reducing the supply of minerals would change PvP for the better. Wars would be come clear cut, you could pound to to submission your opponent, various classes of ships would become more common in war, titans woudn't be spat out of production as often as they are, capitals would become less of a fleet and more of a heavy hitter in a mixed fleet. Things would change, but it certainly would become more interesting.
Atillius Caldari The SOS Brigade	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Nian Banks Edited by: Nian Banks on 17/07/2009 19:08:05 Your comment is by far and away the only honest and reasonably intelligent reply thus far and were on the second page. The rest of the comments I categorize in the 'Lolz, L2P, We rock u suck, I have no brain' department. Quote: Well, thanks, probably because of my age....bit of an old "f"'r......Now where's my mush.....? Quote: I asking for mining ships to get a buff in their tank. I understand you. I think though by theory of design, the mining ships intent is that they are not combat ships and such need no armor, but they need cargo space...which would reduce any type of armor. Now, if you fly with a group you can have support ships armor rep and transfer shield...which is the intent via game mechanics. Solo anything in EVE is taking a risk....you have to be smart, bottom line. Like I said I mine with a Navitis and anchoring in large pop systems....move back and forth, and bail at the first sign of potential trouble. Many miners do the same. Quote: What I want to see is a removal of minerals coming in from mission loot, making miners the only real source of minerals. With a profession that needs support and defence just to do its job properly, it shouldn't have to compete with the already rich mission runners. Dropping T1 meta level 0 modules is bad for the game economy, it gives far too much in minerals and if not reprocessed, compete with the module production from the readily available BPO's. But you can compete by running missions too. Not all missions are combat related. An industrial/miner can thrive well in the right market....try gas harvesting or ice harvesting. Now, for a NON miner/industrialist, they are being penalized for not mining. Why should they not be able to get mission loot? I know I sell everything I loot to support myself. Either reprocessed or not. My miner has lots of SP in drones, so I can deal with NPC and PC pirates. I loot that stuff too and sell it. You would be surprised has some T1 meta 0 gear goes for in some systems....you have to know your markets. Alts are good for that. Besides when we all started EVE the loot drops where often the only way to get gear without having to spend money. Quote: Isk per hour is a given standard in efficiency, mission runners work on isk per hour, miners run on isk per hour. The only people who don't are PvPers and thats understandable, to quantify their profession in isk is dubious. I half agree. Pirates work for isk per hour too via ransoms and bounties....this is usually the only way -5.0 and below pirates can operate. We even take a BIG chance going to high sec for skill books in our pod. People with trip over themselves to suicide gank us in our pods....we loose our implants maybe skill points....and they get a sizable reward for the bounty...as long as its good. Quote: Other than that, I never liked the insurance system, it is based off a set value, it doesn't take into account T2 prices and it gives payouts to those destroyed by concord or who are at war and loose their ship directly from combat in that war. Actually insurance is a good thing. There are insurance payouts in war. In real life $500,000 for the death of US military person. And with the lose of gear, there are insurance and warranties. The market is supply and demand...that's what runs the market. I do think that there should be a price index for insurance. The jita market sounds fair to me. Some of my ships are worth 10 mill on the market but I only get 300k-2mil for a insurance payout...kind of not worth flying it. As for criminals...they have payouts too. Money laundering, insurance fraud, fronts, and payoffs all come into play. Which leads me too think....how cool would that be from a -10 pirate like myself; to pay off a concord agent in the systems I hunt....that wouldn't be fair though.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:42:00 - [39] Originally by: murder one Insurance doesn't need to be removed for Concord losses, it needs to be removed for all losses. Still want to remove insurance now? I'll bet you don't if you have to either see it all stay or all go. You're probably not man enough to stomach playing the game without insurance entirely. You insult me and assume I would disagree with that? My opinion is that when asking for changes, ask half way, asking for everything you want usually gets laughed at. Sure enough theres enough brainless boffins in this thread already, I was expecting more of a varied resonse, not just ******s Anon. So what am I saying? Hell yes, remove insurance completely. If at the least, give new players 1 month worth of free insurance and after that 1 month, nothing ever again. Then the newbs get a chance to experience pvp without the massive costs initially.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:47:00 - [40] Edited by: murder one on 17/07/2009 19:55:51 Originally by: Nian Banks Removing insurance from concord loss and war plus reducing the supply of minerals would change PvP for the better. Wars would be come clear cut, you could pound to to submission your opponent, various classes of ships would become more common in war, titans woudn't be spat out of production as often as they are, capitals would become less of a fleet and more of a heavy hitter in a mixed fleet. Things would change, but it certainly would become more interesting. You can't have CCP just cater to you and screw everyone else. You want no insurance for Concord losses? Fine I say. But insurance needs to be removed from every ship in the game then. Particularly the default insurance payout that you get even when you don't insure your ship. Like you say, flying a large ship would be more of a risk. Battleships and caps would be a more valued asset. Something to not be thrown away lightly. Right now alliances have easily funded ship replacement policies. It's too easy. It needs to stop. Jump freighters, jump bridges and cyno jammers have made it too safe to transport massive amounts of resources with complete safety. It's too hard to choke your target and defeat them through attrition. You're complaining about the suicide situation but you're not willing to go far enough with the changes to make it matter. All you want is for your game to be made easier. There is no value in that. <ninja edit> Allright Nian, I retract my labeling you a carebear. I apologize for attacking you personally, but your OP makes you look like you just want to protect high sec mining and aren't really interested in addressing the core issues of insurance and 'mining with guns' (loot drops, drone minerals etc.). How about this idea- noobs are able to continue to insure their ships for the first four months they're in the game, along with being able to remain in an NPC corp for that time, after which they are dumped into their race's Factional Warfare NPC corp that is able to be war decced (they can move into a player corp of their choice if this isn't to their liking as well) and all insurance goes away for all players after that four month time span, for all ships. This allows a nice safety blanket for new players while providing experienced players the tools to wage war and engage other players in combat and actually make an impact in the game. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Grez Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.07.17 19:55:00 - [41] Stop fitting your hulks with Civi shield boosters and mining AFK, and you might do better against 4/5 dessies shooting at you. ---
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.17 20:09:00 - [42] Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 17/07/2009 20:12:05 Quote: makes no mention of the the reason most pilots suicide gank them, Macro Miners I hear this stated over and over and it's hogwash. The truth of the matter is that the attacker will always attempt to justify their attack somehow. They will label the enemy regardless of the truth of the matter to assuage their own conscience and pacify allies. It doesn't matter how flimsy the rational is itÆs always there, "we're defending the asteroids" or "he looked at me funny". The macro argument sounds plausible until you look at the fact that the player really has no way to 100% guarantee that their victim uses a macro at all. If gankers were really righteous (everyone thinks they are righteous but...) they would warn all non-marcoers in local to clear out before the attack. This way they would at least excuse those that are still awake. But of course this goes against the whole concept of "gank", a surprise kill. We all know the truth though; it's not about the macros, so stop the pretense. As far as what to do about suicide ganking .. nothing. Nothing about the mechanic itself; however it does grate a little that suicide gankers get anything from insurance at all. Initiating a non war decc attack in high sec does cut concord out of the action and I would think that concord would put a stop to the insurance deal. Note: this would not stop the suidice ganks. If they want you dead there are ways.. and Merc Corps have client side ways to insure their ships.
TekNikk Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.17 20:11:00 - [43] Originally by: murder one How about this idea- noobs are able to continue to insure their ships for the first four months they're in the game, along with being able to remain in an NPC corp for that time, after which they are dumped into their race's Factional Warfare NPC corp that is able to be war decced (they can move into a player corp of their choice if this isn't to their liking as well) and all insurance goes away for all players after that four month time span, for all ships. This allows a nice safety blanket for new players while providing experienced players the tools to wage war and engage other players in combat and actually make an impact in the game. I agree wholeheartedly, make it so nr 1.
Tender Trap	Posted - 2009.07.17 20:33:00 - [44] All this back and forth about what drives down the mineral prices is hogwash. Its not mission runners its macro miners.Just look at what happen to ice prices after china banned their version of pay pal that they were using to convert isk to cash, prices went up 100%. Nian Banks frankly i think your clueless about how much isk mission runners are making, frankly most of these guys are buying more plex to sell for isk then they are making. you want prices of things to go up, stop the macro miners and stop supporting CCP's isk for cash sales. It used to mean something to have nice ships or good gear, now any kid who transfers over from WOW and has Mommy's credit card can pimp out a tech 3 ship in 5 months. With plex it is simple to buy a orca and man a 18 man fleet macro mining in empire which results in a income of about 320 billion a yr. How much easier do you care bears want CCP to make it for you? See you in the fields Nian Banks if your not afk you should make it out in time, lol. I love locator agents. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corp&name=Cherri+Bombs
Squat Hardpeck	Posted - 2009.07.17 20:44:00 - [45] So you're mining in a belt for hours on end and a bunch of Yellows/Small gang ships warp in, and you just sat there?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.07.17 22:26:00 - [46] Then all the miners with a clue who switched to mission mining ages ago will read this thread and chuckle softly to themselves. Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.17 22:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Nian Banks Well where do I begin? I guess we should first look at CCP's history in regards to high security space and it's relative safety. I stopped reading right there. There are ways to not get ganked. L2P If you can't stand the heat. Go back to elf and fairy land.
Sae Jabar	Posted - 2009.07.18 00:31:00 - [48] Everyone complaining in this thread about suicide ganks has been added to my addressbook. :) Highsec was never meant to be perfectly secure, if that's what you so desire then maybe you should be on a PVE only MMO game.
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.07.18 00:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Nian Banks I demand the right to make easy isk while not even paying to my attention for more than 5 seconds every 6 minutes! Go die in a fire (in game), please. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Shidhe Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim	Posted - 2009.07.18 05:18:00 - [50] Originally by: iP0D Let's be honest, the only reason there are miners in game is to have relatively easy prey. We don't need average john doe general mining for resources, we have missions for that, both in terms of loot and relatively sheltered locations for quick & dirty mining. This is a problem - the miners aren't going to stay around long after they find this out. To look at this problem from both sides: 1) Concord mechanics - largely as intended. I wasn't in favour of the changes to protect freighters (except in the highest high sec), and I am not in favour of changes to protect hulks. 2) Insurance - this is a problem - for economic reasons. Large and sensible discussion required, but drastic changes may be needed. 3) Mining is not profitable enough - miners like profit. PvPers like miners. To write off mining as a profession would be a pretty stupid decision. Some alternative supplies of minerals need to be reduced, and less T1 gear in missions would boost demand. Coupled with an increase in the amount of Trit available (grav complexes?) this might just get some of the mid range mineral prices off bottom. Reviving mining should be coupled with reviving T1 module manufacturing (both good for noobs).
Pyro Ose	Posted - 2009.07.18 06:20:00 - [51] Okay, I'm not in Goons but the thought of doing this amuses me... Can I use a Frig or should I use a T1 Cruiser? I have max skills for a Rifter or a Rupy...
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity	Posted - 2009.07.18 06:29:00 - [52] Gank Thorax is the favourtie pirate ship 3 per hulk Dapto
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.18 06:30:00 - [53] Once again I will remind people that I don't want concord changed. I don't want Mining ships to be buffed. All I want is the removal of tech1 meta0 modules from mission rat loot tables and insurance to be modified or removed from the game.
Pyro Ose	Posted - 2009.07.18 06:42:00 - [54] Edited by: Pyro Ose on 18/07/2009 06:42:35 Originally by: Nian Banks Once again I will remind people that I don't want concord changed. I don't want Mining ships to be buffed. All I want is the removal of tech1 meta0 modules from mission rat loot tables and insurance to be modified or removed from the game. So what you want is to make it freaking impossible for newbs to PVP. All because your afraid some Goon is going to go all Jihad on your butt while your afk mining. All you have to do is pay attention and the scary bogey man can't touch you. Pro Tip: If your in high sec and a red/yellow dude warps into your belt you should consider evasive action. Unless you are pulling some kind of epic trap, which I also applaud. I'm just in it for the lulz...
Grez Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.07.18 07:37:00 - [55] Mining ships/barges don't need to be buffed. Stop being a cheap bastard and fit PROPER shield boosters, not civi ones. ---
Angelina Morgan Amarr Carebear Evolution Allegiance 2 None	Posted - 2009.07.18 07:41:00 - [56] meh just remove the insurance payouts for ships blown up by CONCORD. After that If some still wants to gank hulks in their megas let them do it.
Stagione	Posted - 2009.07.18 08:25:00 - [57] Originally by: murder one You can't have CCP just cater to you and screw everyone else. You want no insurance for Concord losses? Fine I say. But insurance needs to be removed from every ship in the game then. Particularly the default insurance payout that you get even when you don't insure your ship. You're complaining about the suicide situation but you're not willing to go far enough with the changes to make it matter. All you want is for your game to be made easier. There is no value in that. <ninja edit> How about this idea- noobs are able to continue to insure their ships for the first four months they're in the game, along with being able to remain in an NPC corp for that time, after which they are dumped into their race's Factional Warfare NPC corp that is able to be war decced (they can move into a player corp of their choice if this isn't to their liking as well) and all insurance goes away for all players after that four month time span, for all ships. I agree with most of what you suggest but would like to see changes that add more "realism" to a "player-driven economy". Why not add a little query to the daily DT that breaks down the numbers of active players und ships lost during the last 23 hours and make insurance prices volatile? The "carebear" that loses e.g. 1 barge/month would perhaps pay the same for platinum insurance while losing 3 ships/day for an active pvp player would increase his/her insurance payments. Add "no insurance during wartime" to that for even more realism. Another suggestion: change the sec status into something more meaningful. If you attack someone in e.g. Caldari high sec, you should lose standings with Caldari, which, in turn, can only be "repaired" by killing enemies of Caldari (e.g. joining and fighting for their navy or killing only the appropriate enemy pirate faction). Why should "crimes" in Gallente space be "mended" by killing Blood Raiders etc.?
Vlad Malnex Minmatar Violent Force Productions	Posted - 2009.07.18 08:37:00 - [58] all i can suggest is join a 0.0/low-sec corp/allaince where the real profit is, high sec was never meant to be rich as 0.0 and low sec but some how missions got people insta rich. if your looking for a get rich sqeem in high sec for mining then look else where because allready high sec is overpowered. maybe CCP should look at Darkfall the fully all round pvp where there is no place to hide you know the way CCP wanted EVE to be before all the WOW kids came here
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.18 08:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Vlad Malnex all i can suggest is join a 0.0/low-sec corp/allaince where the real profit is, high sec was never meant to be rich as 0.0 and low sec but some how missions got people insta rich. if your looking for a get rich sqeem in high sec for mining then look else where because allready high sec is overpowered. maybe CCP should look at Darkfall the fully all round pvp where there is no place to hide you know the way CCP wanted EVE to be before all the WOW kids came here What is a 'sqeem' and where can I get one? -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Zaeyla Frank's Astronomics and Procurement Unity Thru Aggression.	Posted - 2009.07.18 09:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Nian Banks ...goonswarms 'jihad', however it's spreading amongst the less skilled pvp wanna bees Wait...you're telling me it's possible to be less skilled than goonswarm?

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