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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pinworm4545 As a relatively new player, I often wish they'd open a new server where everyone could start fresh, so I could experience EVE from the start. I think that would be fun as hell.
I also realize it would be against everything EVE is about in some ways, and would ruin the whole 1 server 1 universe thing. So I get why it won't and in many ways can't be done. I Also get what an insult it'd be for the veterans.
But what can I say, I do think it'd be extremely fun to start over, with everyone else starting at the same spot.
Thing is, knowledge is power. Those who are rich now would be rich on the 2nd server too. Those who win fights know with 100mil SP, would win them with even SP.
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Pinworm4545
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:11:00 -
[32]
Even so, I don't see that as any different than a skilled player doing better in any random game than a less-skilled player. There will always be the betters and the bads.
I just think it would be awesome for many reasons, but I'm not exactly campaigning for it, or expecting it. But it certainly would re-add that sense of awe as it would take a long time for people to get Battleships and such.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.20 03:32:00 -
[33]
Istvaan-
I feel ya man. Gone are the days of flying around in a dual rep Vindicator with an officer ECM in the spare mid and taking on three or four BS solo and not only surviving but actually winning the engagement.
When Marauders and BlackOps were announced I was hopeful. Of course CCP managed to make them pretty worthless for PVP. When T3 was announced I again thought that surely this time they'd introduce something that would be worth all the time and effort they (CCP) had invested into the project. Nope.
Personally I'd like to see BS sized ships that require a LOT of training (BS 5 in two races, all jumpdrive nav skills to 5, all gunnery/engineering support skills to 5 etc. or something similar) but provide very high performance in a single ship.
Marauders are fairly close to this. If they had say, triple their current sensor strength and about a 500% increase in their current scan resolution they'd be just about perfect in my book.
I think that CCP should introduce 'matched sets' of equipment where you get set bonuses for equipping a full rack of faction guns, or you get a massive tanking bonus or more top speed for a complete faction setup with your tank or mids or whatever.
What about a collection of faction BS that required all four races frig/cruiser/bs to 5 before you could fly them? The ideas and concepts are pretty simple really. Make it big, make it powerful and make it costly both in terms of ISK and skillpoint requirements.
Half the time I use ships that are super expensive and totally not worth the cost, but only because it's a little more stylish than the other guy in his boring T2 ship or BS or whatever. I totally agree that we need to bring back that awe and wonder when an exotic ship shows up on your grid. I'm all for it.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Selassie M
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Posted - 2009.07.20 10:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Seishi Maru I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
LOL
Try to fit guns and 800mm plate on an Omen.
Now try a thorax.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: murder one Istvaan-
I feel ya man. Gone are the days of flying around in a dual rep Vindicator with an officer ECM in the spare mid and taking on three or four BS solo and not only surviving but actually winning the engagement.
When Marauders and BlackOps were announced I was hopeful. Of course CCP managed to make them pretty worthless for PVP. When T3 was announced I again thought that surely this time they'd introduce something that would be worth all the time and effort they (CCP) had invested into the project. Nope.
Personally I'd like to see BS sized ships that require a LOT of training (BS 5 in two races, all jumpdrive nav skills to 5, all gunnery/engineering support skills to 5 etc. or something similar) but provide very high performance in a single ship.
Marauders are fairly close to this. If they had say, triple their current sensor strength and about a 500% increase in their current scan resolution they'd be just about perfect in my book.
I think that CCP should introduce 'matched sets' of equipment where you get set bonuses for equipping a full rack of faction guns, or you get a massive tanking bonus or more top speed for a complete faction setup with your tank or mids or whatever.
What about a collection of faction BS that required all four races frig/cruiser/bs to 5 before you could fly them? The ideas and concepts are pretty simple really. Make it big, make it powerful and make it costly both in terms of ISK and skillpoint requirements.
Half the time I use ships that are super expensive and totally not worth the cost, but only because it's a little more stylish than the other guy in his boring T2 ship or BS or whatever. I totally agree that we need to bring back that awe and wonder when an exotic ship shows up on your grid. I'm all for it.
After reading this thread, I thinks its not about awe at all. But somebody starting to get bored of EVE, after all so many years on one game is a long time.
But I am against the concept of having overly uber ships, sure its fun in the beginning, but then soon enough everyone is flying them, and the novelty value wears off. Then you get gangs of em that just kill anyhting else. So whats the point? Having a ship that requires no thought on how to use well, since its just so powerful it blows away anyhting else by looking at it is not a way to enjoy a game long term.
I agree on the point where having a big bad ship warp in on you can be a rushing expereince, but knowing as soon as you see an UberShip on scan you are gonna die unless you just jump system get old to quickly.
T3 have yet to be fully realized, so I am still hoping the 5th sub system will be something really cool. T3 is good in many ways, just depend on how you use them, they are still as strong as a HAC vs a T1 cruiser, but they are not as stong vs HACs as I guess so many wanted. They cold have need one extra weapons hardpoint on the primary weapon sub system I think :).
As for skills, about same as HAC really. Its not hard to train for HAC as all, basically cruiser 5 is needed. The support skills that is needed to fly teh ship well is the same, maby not requierd, but note I said fly the ship well. :P
As for Black Ops, I agree they need a boost, not just in fuel bays, but a bit beefier bonuses and maby some more fitting space. But as most T2, they are highly specialized in one area, even if that area is pretty narrow. (T3 is supposed to be jack-of-all-trades ships, but they are master of none)
Adding as OP said a BS with capital weapons that can explode any ship it points on: Why? It does not add awe in the victim, it adds lols for you, sure, but not awe. Maby only a bit of a fright the first time.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:37:00 -
[36]
Cont.
Like it or not, EVE has changed over the years. And now, EVE lore is a lot more known by the players, and herein lies the big difference compared to the old days. With access to EFT and the knowledge on the forums, big ships no longer are as unreachable or unknown to the general populance. With so many players contributing to the market, most ships are also in reach for everybody isk wise as well. Well established market canales and player created infrastructure in 0.0 have made sure of this.
So what you really want OP is really want is to know the unknown again? Let some things in EVE still be a mystery, adn let 0.0 be a wast open deadland where anything can happen? Awe is not in the ship itself, but the context of where the ship finds itself. And that place has changed.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
D'Artagnan
Bladerunners KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:37:00 -
[37]
I remember when I had one of the first Megathrons around. It took us about 2 months to get the money for the blueprint then a week of mining to get the minerals to build it. I had to go away for a weekend so I lent it to a corp member only to return to find it had been blown up. I was angry for a week.
If I lost my carrier or dread now I would just go buy a new one. What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:51:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 20/07/2009 11:52:08
Originally by: D'Artagnan I remember when I had one of the first Megathrons around. It took us about 2 months to get the money for the blueprint then a week of mining to get the minerals to build it. I had to go away for a weekend so I lent it to a corp member only to return to find it had been blown up. I was angry for a week.
If I lost my carrier or dread now I would just go buy a new one. What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Tbh, loosing a BS for a new player is a huge loss. Heh, I even remember when loosing a cruiser was a loss for me.
But I see even now, with the char I use as main now a days (that is 1.5 years old), I can easily fly capital ships and afford it if I so wanted, isk has ceased to be a problem (add in multiple chars its even easier to get isk, and many do this, but even with my lone main I have no need for it. Or even PLEXes).
But it takes a little while to get to the point of such economic status, after that point isk is no probmles anymore tho. Unless you are stupid and put all your assets and isk in one ship and loose it.
One thing is to be said about bieng nostalgic tho, one remembers stuff like loosing a BS one had worked for ages on as somthing interesting, while at the time it was actually a depressing matter. Only fond memories are remembred. Just like "in the good old days" in RL as well. Then you start to think: Was the good old days really any better? In most cases no (at least for RL, "good old days" in RL sucks bigtime!).
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:54:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:07:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously.
I agree, I am innvolved in the constuction of T3 ships, its above all a fun method to make ships, no lazying around in a station to "invent" stuff like T2(can one really call it invention when it already exist? BPOs made more sense, but I can understand unbalance stuffs).
T3 is nice ships when you get them cheaper then the current market value, the isk does not currently reflect its power tho, as so many would like, but I am definatly going T3 over HAC from now on.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:27:00 -
[41]
ganka geddon. fitting torps in small missle bay`s, mining ships out of roids. fitting several mwd`s and being able to turn them all on.. more then 5 drones... fun in game events BOB alliance
Things we dont miss is sever reboots aday.. slow performance.
www.garia.net |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:35:00 -
[42]
In game event I would like to see more of tho. Too little of that :(.
Tho there is a player held one I really like each xmas :).
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.20 13:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Cont.
Like it or not, EVE has changed over the years. And now, EVE lore is a lot more known by the players, and herein lies the big difference compared to the old days. With access to EFT and the knowledge on the forums, big ships no longer are as unreachable or unknown to the general populance. With so many players contributing to the market, most ships are also in reach for everybody isk wise as well. Well established market canales and player created infrastructure in 0.0 have made sure of this.
So what you really want OP is really want is to know the unknown again? Let some things in EVE still be a mystery, adn let 0.0 be a wast open deadland where anything can happen? Awe is not in the ship itself, but the context of where the ship finds itself. And that place has changed.
This probably nails it better than I described it.
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Orange Faeces
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:44:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I think what we need is some truly badass ships - not balanced, because balance is goddamn boring, but totally and obscenely overpowered.
try the zealot. its the r*pe tool du jour.
O. Faeces ---
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Rhohan
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Back in the day...
Yes, nearly every generation has said that.
Times change, learn to live with it, or learn to be pernmantely unhappy.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:09:00 -
[46]
We already have that - faction /t2 battleships with officer mods.
They are not quite as overpowered, but still pretty expensive and people do notice when you fly them in pvp. I wouldn't mind for some additional ways to increase damage output tho, since all the rigs, faction mods, implants, are slanted heavily in favor of tanking, almost nothing for gank
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu T3? I've lost one already, didn't really phase me.
What I want to see, is ships that require 100m SP to fly. A true reward for the veterans, and the veterans only, to the exclusion of all others. Not like T3, where any clownshoe can train for it in 15 days - something exclusive, something unattainable by most, but attainable by me because I am better than them. Don't have 100m SP? Oops, too bad, you'll have to play a few more years...
maybe 100M is a bit exagerated... but something that was targeted for characters on the 70-80M sp range (in other words late 2004 early 2005 players) would be reasonable. Problem is.. lots of development effort to be used by very few players makes a bad businness decision time management wise on CCP.
Something that would be a mid step would be T3 weapons.. needing Specialization skills at level 5 surgical strike 5 , adv upgrades V and thermodynamics 5 (that is enough that less than 2-3% of eve would have it immediately and less than 10% would have it attainable before next expansion)
T3 ships don't fill this gap because their barrier is price not skills to use. Maybe t3 battleships could be made cheaper (or simply keep same prices as cruisers) but much more skill intensive.
If you needed the subsystem skills at level 5... that owudl be INTERESTING combined with the skill loss from loosign a T3 ship....
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Selassie M
Originally by: Seishi Maru I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
LOL
Try to fit guns and 800mm plate on an Omen.
Now try a thorax.
t1 cruisers are type of thing CCP threw out of the game balance basket long time ago.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:19:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 16:20:31 My guess is that T3 tactical cruisers are only the start. CCP wants to see how their new ship concept works out before they bring the big ones and before it screws up the balance too fast, hence the cruiser variant. I cannot imagine that the current T3s will be the only of its kind. Instead, imagine a T3 Megathron - a Gigathron. Whatever ... -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 16:20:31 My guess is that T3 tactical cruisers are only the start. CCP wants to see how their new ship concept works out before they bring the big ones and before it screws up the balance too fast, hence the cruiser variant. I cannot imagine that the current T3s will be the only of its kind. Instead, imagine a T3 Megathron - a Gigathron. Whatever ...
no no no.. a t3 megatron MUST be called GALVATRON! CCP already screwed with this on the t2 one!Everyoen that lived the 80's knows that!
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:13:00 -
[51]
You make a good point, but it's wrapped in a little bit too much emo for my taste.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Seishi Maru I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
The simple examples are the 2 t2 battleship types. So many years peopel waited for awesome T2 battleships and ccp gicve us 2 completely useles to pvp combat ship... really sad.
This.
Mauraders , remove the crap sensor strength. Black op, warp cloaked.
For the amount they cost they should be awesomesauce.
Maybe peops will then use lose and abuse them :)
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Teevils
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:42:00 -
[53]
Isn't this topic really about people who have played eve so long, that they have the SP and ISK to do pretty much whatever they want. Maybe for YOU losing a battleship isnt a big deal but for plenty of new players it is...
As to the idea of a solo pwnmobile for people who've got over 100mill sp, i'm kinda split. While it would be cool to see one and try and take it down, i hugely dislike rewarding people just for playing eve for X amount of time. By all means make it incredibly skill intensive, but it should be accessible to people who havent played for 5 years.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:45:00 -
[54]
It should not matter to newcomers what ships players fly who have 100m SP and more. If a noob gets shot down by a T2 frigate or a T1 battleship makes no difference. If it is a T3 battleship then it is just the same. Adding new ships to the top end of ships with every 1 or 2 years of EVE will keep players playing. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
D'Artagnan
Bladerunners KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously.
You clearly have no idea what eve was like at the start!!
The fact that there were T3 cruisers on the market and being sold days after the patch means they cant be that hard to make!!!
The first battleships in EVE where not around for 2-3 months, the first few were build by corps that used to have 30+ people working together for that one goal.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:01:00 -
[56]
So, this is how the great and legendary Istvaan fades into the human failure that is a forum whiner. What a sad day for EVE. What's next, Chribba whining about slow asteroid regeneration rates?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:25:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 20/07/2009 23:25:31
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker So, this is how the great and legendary Istvaan fades into the human failure that is a forum whiner. What a sad day for EVE. What's next, Chribba whining about slow asteroid regeneration rates?
Can I make a forum post without some pissant with no name declaring me fallen from grace, or is that too much to ask?
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Tranka Verrane
Angelic Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:26:00 -
[58]
We should link this thread in New Citizens every time someone complains about it being too hard to catch up.
Player Since 2005 Over 4000 hours logged
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.21 00:42:00 -
[59]
For some reason that 'I'm the king of the swingers' song from the jungle book keeps going round my head.
Got to the top, don't know where to stop and that's what's bothering me. Shooby doo doo doo...... _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.21 00:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: hired goon I know, there should be a pos structure where you put a load of ship BPOs and every week you have to put 10 billion isk into it and it cooks away a ship that chooses a random template then increases in power exponentially as long as it's in there. That way you would have these super ships but not many, because if people take them out they'd be powerful but not as powerful as they could have been if they were left in. And you'd have people leaving them in for like years, and there would be competitions between who can keep theirs in the longest, and if you destroy the pos all progress is lost. So you get alliances undocking this super leet monster as their last pos is enroached upon OH MAN THIS HAS TO HAPPEN
this tbh ^^
Though it looks like hired goon was so excited he didn't so much forget where the enter key was as forget to breathe. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
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