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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.18 21:17:00 -
[1]
Back in the day, a day you young whipper-snappers likely won't recall, there was a certain sense of awe about Eve. You see your first Apocalypse or your first Megathron, and you damn near crap. There was a feeling of being an absolute badass. That feeling is gone. Now, battleships are just lolinsurance; now, loss doesn't really matter as much as it did back in the before-time.
I miss the days of killing someone's ship and giving them a nervous breakdown. I think what we need is some truly badass ships - not balanced, because balance is goddamn boring, but totally and obscenely overpowered. I'm talking about battleships with capital weapons and tracking/resolution bonuses. I'm talking about cruisers with 500% range bonuses to smartbombs. Fun stuff. As it stands today, you can trick out your ship with the sweetest gear the game has to offer, and still get taken down by a small group of vanilla ships. There are no heroes anymore, no ships that gain fame by virtue of their absolute badassery. I want a return to that pants-crapping fear you felt when a Blasterthron jumped your Apoc.
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Black Sunder
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Posted - 2009.07.18 21:20:00 -
[2]
I agree, a little less balance would be nice. The only balance then would be imbalance which has proven effective in RTS.
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Admiral Crow
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Admiral Crow on 18/07/2009 22:03:13
capital battleship class would be nice : ) with open highslots u can fit either lancher or turrets and let them fly in high sec as well : ) so everyone can see u fly proudly above your races home world or make your war targets cower in fear at the super power that is your capital class battleship (maybe add 4 higher slots so u can fit 4 capital bays over top of your 6-8 large so u can combat the best your enemy can throw at u.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:24:00 -
[4]
Seriously. Do any of you remember when interceptors or HACs first came out? They were goddamn terrifying. An interceptor could pretty much drop a battleship solo, if the BS was stupid. A HAC would make killing a battleship seem like a walk in the park.
Nowadays, new ships are released, and they're crippled. Completely not worth their cost - look at t3, they're just bubble-immune hacs with a bit more hp that you pay a billion for. Sure, once prices settle, you'll be paying 400m for the ship... but why are you paying 400m for a ship that doesn't do anything a HAC can't? Or even a plated t1 battlecruiser?
Please, CCP, heed these words if you ever heed any - balance is boring.
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:39:00 -
[5]
I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
The simple examples are the 2 t2 battleship types. So many years peopel waited for awesome T2 battleships and ccp gicve us 2 completely useles to pvp combat ship... really sad.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:44:00 -
[6]
I know, there should be a pos structure where you put a load of ship BPOs and every week you have to put 10 billion isk into it and it cooks away a ship that chooses a random template then increases in power exponentially as long as it's in there. That way you would have these super ships but not many, because if people take them out they'd be powerful but not as powerful as they could have been if they were left in. And you'd have people leaving them in for like years, and there would be competitions between who can keep theirs in the longest, and if you destroy the pos all progress is lost. So you get alliances undocking this super leet monster as their last pos is enroached upon OH MAN THIS HAS TO HAPPEN
-omg-
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.18 22:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Whitehound on 18/07/2009 22:53:09
What about a button that lets you shut down the game servers? This would give you the ultimate feeling of being a badass and a moron.
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Jazric
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Posted - 2009.07.19 02:38:00 -
[8]
LOL
That awe is still there, its just you have grown out of it. When I started playing and saw my CEO's golem I experienced the awe you speak of. When my corp undocked a rhea we had just spent months building that awe was there. When a curse took down my brand new tempest I had to log and not play for a couple days. When someone dropped a mom and a couple carriers on my corps gate camp, we lost big time, and laughed every minute, HOLY CRAP I JUST SAW A MOM!
Just because you don't feel the awe in the game doesn't mean it isn't there. You and your ilk are the ones that ruined it. Instead of taking your ubber ships and fighting each other you pop the noob in his first cane. Why? Because you need to feel "absolute badassery." Of course you need to feel it in ships that you never had to face when you where the noob.
You do have your outlets. Your corp is an end game meta gaming master. You steal massive amounts from huge alliances. If you don't feel in "awe" in that maybe you have gotten bored. Maybe you could start a new corp for noobs, pass on your experience. I think you would be surprised how infectious there awe is. Of course you really aren't looking for the awe, you're looking for the absolute badassery. Good luck with that.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.19 06:00:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Seishi Maru
The simple examples are the 2 t2 battleship types. So many years peopel waited for awesome T2 battleships and ccp gicve us 2 completely useles to pvp combat ship... really sad.
It is sad this part is so true. :( I wish my blackops could've done a bit better solo/small gang than being a mere logistics *****.
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Xero Shifter
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Posted - 2009.07.19 06:40:00 -
[10]
I miss the fear as well, i remember when i first started, i couldn't wait to get my hands on a battle ship, in the mean time i looked up at them and cowered.
Now everyone and their grandmother has one, or can get one on a whim. It makes them less special. Maybe if things where less balanced, and it was all about who specialized their equipment for that particular battle better, things wouldn't be so... |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.19 07:23:00 -
[11]
So you are all fearless? I do not believe you.
Get a T3 and go into a fight with it. If you think that this is stupid, because you fear losing money or skills then no one can help you, really.
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.07.19 09:11:00 -
[12]
That would not bring back the days of old.
THe thing is, EVE is getting populated byt a lot of capsuleers, and no matter how you put it, even overpowers ships will be blobed to death as soon as anyone sees it. It would only add an expencive kill mail for you.
And making 1 ship take out enitre blobs is a very silly idea.
If you really want the "good old days", make ships have a bit less hp, promotig active tanks, then the big damage deals will be feard a lot more.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.19 09:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
And making 1 ship take out enitre blobs is a very silly idea.
That is what the Doomsday Device is for.
Are you the real Lindsay Logan?
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.19 11:33:00 -
[14]
T3? I've lost one already, didn't really phase me.
What I want to see, is ships that require 100m SP to fly. A true reward for the veterans, and the veterans only, to the exclusion of all others. Not like T3, where any clownshoe can train for it in 15 days - something exclusive, something unattainable by most, but attainable by me because I am better than them. Don't have 100m SP? Oops, too bad, you'll have to play a few more years...
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.07.19 12:02:00 -
[15]
Fail thread is fail.
Talking about 'the good old days' and continuing with 'fear' and 'awe' as if those were desirable emotions, whilst all it comes down to is a shriveled e-peen and the feeling of insignificance that wants to be compensated by making oneself uber like 'in the good old days' while all others should be in 'awe' and 'fear' of oneself..
Pitiful much?
Perhaps a hug would help. Or just quit EVE.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.07.19 12:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
T3? I've lost one already, didn't really phase me.
What I want to see, is ships that require 100m SP to fly. A true reward for the veterans, and the veterans only, to the exclusion of all others. Not like T3, where any clownshoe can train for it in 15 days - something exclusive, something unattainable by most, but attainable by me because I am better than them. Don't have 100m SP? Oops, too bad, you'll have to play a few more years...
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.07.19 12:14:00 -
[17]
So in essence you want to introduce a lvl 70 flying mount?
Why don't you just get an Estamel fit State Raven? Doing PvP in a 130-150b setup should get your heart pumping and by looking at the history of GH-SC it shouldn't be out of your budget.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.19 13:07:00 -
[18]
Sigh... you don't get it.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.07.19 13:19:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 19/07/2009 13:21:11
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Sigh... you don't get it.
I get it, I just think its silly. You want a huge epeen to **** all others with, so that they can be in awe of you.
One of the things I like about EVE is that 100Mill+ SP guys don't have this ability. It would just mess up the game. EVE promotes strenght in numbers (perhaps a little bit too much at some times, granted), and one single ship is not a super duper thing that can kill of all others.
Titans is the closest you can get I guess, but they are not really what you desire if I get you right 
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.19 14:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Sigh... you don't get it.
I believe I do get it. You want a bigger ship.
Which is it you are flying and do you have all the ships? Do you fly a Kronos, a Moros, a Nyx and an Erebus?
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.19 16:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Sigh... you don't get it.
I believe I do get it. You want a bigger ship.
Which is it you are flying and do you have all the ships? Do you fly a Kronos, a Moros, a Nyx and an Erebus?
I can fly every ship in Eve - some, not well, but well enough to fly away in. Part of the job. That said, anything capital class and above is boring - capitals are alliance tools and I am not an alliance. I am a guy who wants a badass whiz-bang ship to putz around in. Remember how badass and whiz-bang HACs were when they came out? That's what I want to recapture. T3 has failed utterly in this regard. In fact, every new ship released since HACs has pretty much failed in this regard. HACs were awesome because they were king shit - every ship released since has lacked simple, honest fun factor.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.19 16:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
T3 has failed utterly in this regard.
What about the T3s? I have heard they can produce awesome amounts of damage.
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Honest Smedley
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Posted - 2009.07.19 18:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Sigh... you don't get it.
I believe I do get it. You want a bigger ship.
Which is it you are flying and do you have all the ships? Do you fly a Kronos, a Moros, a Nyx and an Erebus?
I can fly every ship in Eve - some, not well, but well enough to fly away in. Part of the job. That said, anything capital class and above is boring - capitals are alliance tools and I am not an alliance. I am a guy who wants a badass whiz-bang ship to putz around in. Remember how badass and whiz-bang HACs were when they came out? That's what I want to recapture. T3 has failed utterly in this regard. In fact, every new ship released since HACs has pretty much failed in this regard. HACs were awesome because they were king shit - every ship released since has lacked simple, honest fun factor.
I fail to see how T3 have failed utterly in that regard. The example above of a HAC destroying a BS on release would certainly be the case with a T3 cruiser vs a BS today. The *only* difference is accessibility. T3 have a lower SP barrier to entry (to fly poorly) in comparison to HACs on release, but they *do* have a significantly higher ISK barrier.
If your issue is entirely about the E-peen "I can fly this ship because I have 100m SP and you don't" thing, I'd suggest looking for a new game... because I really would rather not have your desires ****ting up this one.
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Bill Bucanon
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Posted - 2009.07.19 18:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Bill Bucanon on 19/07/2009 18:41:23
Edited by: Bill Bucanon on 19/07/2009 18:39:14
if uber dps boats that everyone fears are brought about, then fleets would consist of tonnes of these bad boys?
i think if such a bad boy exists, then something extra should be put on the line for the pilot... such as
- its an experimental ship that pods dont yet work with (bye bye implants when u pop, new clone needed).
- its not capable of transferring your complete skills back to ur clone - say u lose a small percentage :P :P
their fire power makes them fearsome to attack
the lure of popping makes them fun to attack
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.19 20:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 19/07/2009 20:32:22
Originally by: Bill Bucanon
if uber dps boats that everyone fears are brought about, then fleets would consist of tonnes of these bad boys?
i think if such a bad boy exists, then something extra should be put on the line for the pilot... such as
- its an experimental ship that pods dont yet work with (bye bye implants when u pop, new clone needed).
- its not capable of transferring your complete skills back to ur clone - say u lose a small percentage :P :P
their fire power makes them fearsome to attack
the lure of popping makes them fun to attack
See, this is the kind of fun idea I am looking for.
edit: And if they were limited to 100m SP pilots, there would not be that many of them out there to worry about uber killfleets.
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2009.07.19 21:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Empyre on 19/07/2009 21:57:31
I think the first nano-nerfs started proving what happens when there is one ship/configuration that overpowers the rest.. everyone uses it. The only reason this wasn't an apparent problem in the 'golden days' of Eve is because is was a huge amount to learn and it was difficult learning it.
CCP made it easier for people to learn the game. When this happened, more people were actively researching the 'best' configurations. Other people started noticing what won and lost more and the 'flavor-of-the-month' started becoming regular.
Titans were the PWNmobiles you're talking about, but they've been nerfed for obvious reasons. Balance is boring only when you're caught on the side of the balance that is weighed against something heavier. (Or in other words in a balanced world, people only cry when they're losing.)
what the crap just happened? |
LUH 3472
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Back in the day, a day you young whipper-snappers likely won't recall, there was a certain sense of awe about Eve. You see your first Apocalypse or your first Megathron, and you damn near crap. There was a feeling of being an absolute badass. That feeling is gone. Now, battleships are just lolinsurance; now, loss doesn't really matter as much as it did back in the before-time.
I miss the days of killing someone's ship and giving them a nervous breakdown. I think what we need is some truly badass ships - not balanced, because balance is goddamn boring, but totally and obscenely overpowered. I'm talking about battleships with capital weapons and tracking/resolution bonuses. I'm talking about cruisers with 500% range bonuses to smartbombs. Fun stuff. As it stands today, you can trick out your ship with the sweetest gear the game has to offer, and still get taken down by a small group of vanilla ships. There are no heroes anymore, no ships that gain fame by virtue of their absolute badassery. I want a return to that pants-crapping fear you felt when a Blasterthron jumped your Apoc.
hear hear
good man
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.07.19 23:17:00 -
[28]
i miss the 8 heat sink armageddon
i miss the nanophoon
i miss the multi mwd raven
i miss the artilley able to oneshot a bs
i miss the old nos
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Dirtee Girl
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 00:55:00 -
[29]
i was really hoping black ops bs'e would be something truly nightmarish a scary a taste of the old eve but pre nerfed filler material is what we got .
the good thing about the above statement is you can apply it to many new ships being brought out or already here and it's still works .
ccp has one of the best collective imaginations running but when it comes to implementation they need some real help . OP ships would bring some life back into this mayonaise sandwich of a game.
*
* |
Pinworm4545
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:00:00 -
[30]
As a relatively new player, I often wish they'd open a new server where everyone could start fresh, so I could experience EVE from the start. I think that would be fun as hell.
I also realize it would be against everything EVE is about in some ways, and would ruin the whole 1 server 1 universe thing. So I get why it won't and in many ways can't be done. I Also get what an insult it'd be for the veterans.
But what can I say, I do think it'd be extremely fun to start over, with everyone else starting at the same spot.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pinworm4545
As a relatively new player, I often wish they'd open a new server where everyone could start fresh, so I could experience EVE from the start. I think that would be fun as hell.
I also realize it would be against everything EVE is about in some ways, and would ruin the whole 1 server 1 universe thing. So I get why it won't and in many ways can't be done. I Also get what an insult it'd be for the veterans.
But what can I say, I do think it'd be extremely fun to start over, with everyone else starting at the same spot.
Thing is, knowledge is power. Those who are rich now would be rich on the 2nd server too. Those who win fights know with 100mil SP, would win them with even SP.
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Pinworm4545
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:11:00 -
[32]
Even so, I don't see that as any different than a skilled player doing better in any random game than a less-skilled player. There will always be the betters and the bads.
I just think it would be awesome for many reasons, but I'm not exactly campaigning for it, or expecting it. But it certainly would re-add that sense of awe as it would take a long time for people to get Battleships and such.
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.20 03:32:00 -
[33]
Istvaan-
I feel ya man. Gone are the days of flying around in a dual rep Vindicator with an officer ECM in the spare mid and taking on three or four BS solo and not only surviving but actually winning the engagement.
When Marauders and BlackOps were announced I was hopeful. Of course CCP managed to make them pretty worthless for PVP. When T3 was announced I again thought that surely this time they'd introduce something that would be worth all the time and effort they (CCP) had invested into the project. Nope.
Personally I'd like to see BS sized ships that require a LOT of training (BS 5 in two races, all jumpdrive nav skills to 5, all gunnery/engineering support skills to 5 etc. or something similar) but provide very high performance in a single ship.
Marauders are fairly close to this. If they had say, triple their current sensor strength and about a 500% increase in their current scan resolution they'd be just about perfect in my book.
I think that CCP should introduce 'matched sets' of equipment where you get set bonuses for equipping a full rack of faction guns, or you get a massive tanking bonus or more top speed for a complete faction setup with your tank or mids or whatever.
What about a collection of faction BS that required all four races frig/cruiser/bs to 5 before you could fly them? The ideas and concepts are pretty simple really. Make it big, make it powerful and make it costly both in terms of ISK and skillpoint requirements.
Half the time I use ships that are super expensive and totally not worth the cost, but only because it's a little more stylish than the other guy in his boring T2 ship or BS or whatever. I totally agree that we need to bring back that awe and wonder when an exotic ship shows up on your grid. I'm all for it.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Selassie M
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Posted - 2009.07.20 10:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
LOL
Try to fit guns and 800mm plate on an Omen.
Now try a thorax.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: murder one
Istvaan-
I feel ya man. Gone are the days of flying around in a dual rep Vindicator with an officer ECM in the spare mid and taking on three or four BS solo and not only surviving but actually winning the engagement.
When Marauders and BlackOps were announced I was hopeful. Of course CCP managed to make them pretty worthless for PVP. When T3 was announced I again thought that surely this time they'd introduce something that would be worth all the time and effort they (CCP) had invested into the project. Nope.
Personally I'd like to see BS sized ships that require a LOT of training (BS 5 in two races, all jumpdrive nav skills to 5, all gunnery/engineering support skills to 5 etc. or something similar) but provide very high performance in a single ship.
Marauders are fairly close to this. If they had say, triple their current sensor strength and about a 500% increase in their current scan resolution they'd be just about perfect in my book.
I think that CCP should introduce 'matched sets' of equipment where you get set bonuses for equipping a full rack of faction guns, or you get a massive tanking bonus or more top speed for a complete faction setup with your tank or mids or whatever.
What about a collection of faction BS that required all four races frig/cruiser/bs to 5 before you could fly them? The ideas and concepts are pretty simple really. Make it big, make it powerful and make it costly both in terms of ISK and skillpoint requirements.
Half the time I use ships that are super expensive and totally not worth the cost, but only because it's a little more stylish than the other guy in his boring T2 ship or BS or whatever. I totally agree that we need to bring back that awe and wonder when an exotic ship shows up on your grid. I'm all for it.
After reading this thread, I thinks its not about awe at all. But somebody starting to get bored of EVE, after all so many years on one game is a long time.
But I am against the concept of having overly uber ships, sure its fun in the beginning, but then soon enough everyone is flying them, and the novelty value wears off. Then you get gangs of em that just kill anyhting else. So whats the point? Having a ship that requires no thought on how to use well, since its just so powerful it blows away anyhting else by looking at it is not a way to enjoy a game long term.
I agree on the point where having a big bad ship warp in on you can be a rushing expereince, but knowing as soon as you see an UberShip on scan you are gonna die unless you just jump system get old to quickly.
T3 have yet to be fully realized, so I am still hoping the 5th sub system will be something really cool. T3 is good in many ways, just depend on how you use them, they are still as strong as a HAC vs a T1 cruiser, but they are not as stong vs HACs as I guess so many wanted. They cold have need one extra weapons hardpoint on the primary weapon sub system I think :).
As for skills, about same as HAC really. Its not hard to train for HAC as all, basically cruiser 5 is needed. The support skills that is needed to fly teh ship well is the same, maby not requierd, but note I said fly the ship well. :P
As for Black Ops, I agree they need a boost, not just in fuel bays, but a bit beefier bonuses and maby some more fitting space. But as most T2, they are highly specialized in one area, even if that area is pretty narrow. (T3 is supposed to be jack-of-all-trades ships, but they are master of none)
Adding as OP said a BS with capital weapons that can explode any ship it points on: Why? It does not add awe in the victim, it adds lols for you, sure, but not awe. Maby only a bit of a fright the first time.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:37:00 -
[36]
Cont.
Like it or not, EVE has changed over the years. And now, EVE lore is a lot more known by the players, and herein lies the big difference compared to the old days. With access to EFT and the knowledge on the forums, big ships no longer are as unreachable or unknown to the general populance. With so many players contributing to the market, most ships are also in reach for everybody isk wise as well. Well established market canales and player created infrastructure in 0.0 have made sure of this.
So what you really want OP is really want is to know the unknown again? Let some things in EVE still be a mystery, adn let 0.0 be a wast open deadland where anything can happen? Awe is not in the ship itself, but the context of where the ship finds itself. And that place has changed.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
D'Artagnan
Bladerunners
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:37:00 -
[37]
I remember when I had one of the first Megathrons around. It took us about 2 months to get the money for the blueprint then a week of mining to get the minerals to build it. I had to go away for a weekend so I lent it to a corp member only to return to find it had been blown up. I was angry for a week.
If I lost my carrier or dread now I would just go buy a new one. What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:51:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 20/07/2009 11:52:08
Originally by: D'Artagnan
I remember when I had one of the first Megathrons around. It took us about 2 months to get the money for the blueprint then a week of mining to get the minerals to build it. I had to go away for a weekend so I lent it to a corp member only to return to find it had been blown up. I was angry for a week.
If I lost my carrier or dread now I would just go buy a new one. What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Tbh, loosing a BS for a new player is a huge loss. Heh, I even remember when loosing a cruiser was a loss for me.
But I see even now, with the char I use as main now a days (that is 1.5 years old), I can easily fly capital ships and afford it if I so wanted, isk has ceased to be a problem (add in multiple chars its even easier to get isk, and many do this, but even with my lone main I have no need for it. Or even PLEXes).
But it takes a little while to get to the point of such economic status, after that point isk is no probmles anymore tho. Unless you are stupid and put all your assets and isk in one ship and loose it.
One thing is to be said about bieng nostalgic tho, one remembers stuff like loosing a BS one had worked for ages on as somthing interesting, while at the time it was actually a depressing matter. Only fond memories are remembred. Just like "in the good old days" in RL as well. Then you start to think: Was the good old days really any better? In most cases no (at least for RL, "good old days" in RL sucks bigtime!).
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:54:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan
What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously.
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:07:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan
What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously.
I agree, I am innvolved in the constuction of T3 ships, its above all a fun method to make ships, no lazying around in a station to "invent" stuff like T2(can one really call it invention when it already exist? BPOs made more sense, but I can understand unbalance stuffs).
T3 is nice ships when you get them cheaper then the current market value, the isk does not currently reflect its power tho, as so many would like, but I am definatly going T3 over HAC from now on.
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:27:00 -
[41]
ganka geddon. fitting torps in small missle bay`s, mining ships out of roids.
fitting several mwd`s and being able to turn them all on..
more then 5 drones...
fun in game events
BOB alliance
Things we dont miss is sever reboots aday.. slow performance.
www.garia.net |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:35:00 -
[42]
In game event I would like to see more of tho. Too little of that :(.
Tho there is a player held one I really like each xmas :).
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.20 13:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Cont.
Like it or not, EVE has changed over the years. And now, EVE lore is a lot more known by the players, and herein lies the big difference compared to the old days. With access to EFT and the knowledge on the forums, big ships no longer are as unreachable or unknown to the general populance. With so many players contributing to the market, most ships are also in reach for everybody isk wise as well. Well established market canales and player created infrastructure in 0.0 have made sure of this.
So what you really want OP is really want is to know the unknown again? Let some things in EVE still be a mystery, adn let 0.0 be a wast open deadland where anything can happen? Awe is not in the ship itself, but the context of where the ship finds itself. And that place has changed.
This probably nails it better than I described it.
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Orange Faeces
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:44:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I think what we need is some truly badass ships - not balanced, because balance is goddamn boring, but totally and obscenely overpowered.
try the zealot. its the r*pe tool du jour.
O. Faeces
---
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Rhohan
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Back in the day...
Yes, nearly every generation has said that.
Times change, learn to live with it, or learn to be pernmantely unhappy.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:09:00 -
[46]
We already have that - faction /t2 battleships with officer mods.
They are not quite as overpowered, but still pretty expensive and people do notice when you fly them in pvp. I wouldn't mind for some additional ways to increase damage output tho, since all the rigs, faction mods, implants, are slanted heavily in favor of tanking, almost nothing for gank
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
T3? I've lost one already, didn't really phase me.
What I want to see, is ships that require 100m SP to fly. A true reward for the veterans, and the veterans only, to the exclusion of all others. Not like T3, where any clownshoe can train for it in 15 days - something exclusive, something unattainable by most, but attainable by me because I am better than them. Don't have 100m SP? Oops, too bad, you'll have to play a few more years...
maybe 100M is a bit exagerated... but something that was targeted for characters on the 70-80M sp range (in other words late 2004 early 2005 players) would be reasonable. Problem is.. lots of development effort to be used by very few players makes a bad businness decision time management wise on CCP.
Something that would be a mid step would be T3 weapons.. needing Specialization skills at level 5 surgical strike 5 , adv upgrades V and thermodynamics 5 (that is enough that less than 2-3% of eve would have it immediately and less than 10% would have it attainable before next expansion)
T3 ships don't fill this gap because their barrier is price not skills to use. Maybe t3 battleships could be made cheaper (or simply keep same prices as cruisers) but much more skill intensive.
If you needed the subsystem skills at level 5... that owudl be INTERESTING combined with the skill loss from loosign a T3 ship....
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Selassie M
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
LOL
Try to fit guns and 800mm plate on an Omen.
Now try a thorax.
t1 cruisers are type of thing CCP threw out of the game balance basket long time ago.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:19:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 16:20:31
My guess is that T3 tactical cruisers are only the start. CCP wants to see how their new ship concept works out before they bring the big ones and before it screws up the balance too fast, hence the cruiser variant. I cannot imagine that the current T3s will be the only of its kind. Instead, imagine a T3 Megathron - a Gigathron. Whatever ...
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:23:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 16:20:31
My guess is that T3 tactical cruisers are only the start. CCP wants to see how their new ship concept works out before they bring the big ones and before it screws up the balance too fast, hence the cruiser variant. I cannot imagine that the current T3s will be the only of its kind. Instead, imagine a T3 Megathron - a Gigathron. Whatever ...
no no no.. a t3 megatron MUST be called GALVATRON! CCP already screwed with this on the t2 one!Everyoen that lived the 80's knows that!
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:13:00 -
[51]
You make a good point, but it's wrapped in a little bit too much emo for my taste.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
I have to agree. But ccp seems very focused on homogenization of battlefield. They do nto want any ship to have any SIGNIFICANT advantage over ANY other ship.
The simple examples are the 2 t2 battleship types. So many years peopel waited for awesome T2 battleships and ccp gicve us 2 completely useles to pvp combat ship... really sad.
This.
Mauraders , remove the crap sensor strength.
Black op, warp cloaked.
For the amount they cost they should be awesomesauce.
Maybe peops will then use lose and abuse them :)
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Teevils
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:42:00 -
[53]
Isn't this topic really about people who have played eve so long, that they have the SP and ISK to do pretty much whatever they want. Maybe for YOU losing a battleship isnt a big deal but for plenty of new players it is...
As to the idea of a solo pwnmobile for people who've got over 100mill sp, i'm kinda split. While it would be cool to see one and try and take it down, i hugely dislike rewarding people just for playing eve for X amount of time. By all means make it incredibly skill intensive, but it should be accessible to people who havent played for 5 years.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:45:00 -
[54]
It should not matter to newcomers what ships players fly who have 100m SP and more. If a noob gets shot down by a T2 frigate or a T1 battleship makes no difference. If it is a T3 battleship then it is just the same. Adding new ships to the top end of ships with every 1 or 2 years of EVE will keep players playing.
--
"Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
D'Artagnan
Bladerunners
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/07/2009 11:54:14
Originally by: D'Artagnan
What's missing is the pain of losing something that took so much time to acquire and I miss it :(
Is this an argument or just an attempt to whine about the lost past?
Do you have any idea what is involved to build a T3? I suggest you try to build one instead of waiting fo others to build one for you. Your comment has no place in this thread, seriously.
You clearly have no idea what eve was like at the start!!
The fact that there were T3 cruisers on the market and being sold days after the patch means they cant be that hard to make!!!
The first battleships in EVE where not around for 2-3 months, the first few were build by corps that used to have 30+ people working together for that one goal.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:01:00 -
[56]
So, this is how the great and legendary Istvaan fades into the human failure that is a forum whiner. What a sad day for EVE. What's next, Chribba whining about slow asteroid regeneration rates?
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:25:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 20/07/2009 23:25:31
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
So, this is how the great and legendary Istvaan fades into the human failure that is a forum whiner. What a sad day for EVE. What's next, Chribba whining about slow asteroid regeneration rates?
Can I make a forum post without some pissant with no name declaring me fallen from grace, or is that too much to ask?
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Tranka Verrane
Angelic Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.20 23:26:00 -
[58]
We should link this thread in New Citizens every time someone complains about it being too hard to catch up.
Player Since 2005
Over 4000 hours logged
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.21 00:42:00 -
[59]
For some reason that 'I'm the king of the swingers' song from the jungle book keeps going round my head.
Got to the top, don't know where to stop and that's what's bothering me. Shooby doo doo doo......
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Lifeboat ----> + Human |
yani dumyat
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.07.21 00:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: hired goon
I know, there should be a pos structure where you put a load of ship BPOs and every week you have to put 10 billion isk into it and it cooks away a ship that chooses a random template then increases in power exponentially as long as it's in there. That way you would have these super ships but not many, because if people take them out they'd be powerful but not as powerful as they could have been if they were left in. And you'd have people leaving them in for like years, and there would be competitions between who can keep theirs in the longest, and if you destroy the pos all progress is lost. So you get alliances undocking this super leet monster as their last pos is enroached upon OH MAN THIS HAS TO HAPPEN
this tbh ^^
Though it looks like hired goon was so excited he didn't so much forget where the enter key was as forget to breathe. 
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Lifeboat ----> + Human |
Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2009.07.21 00:58:00 -
[61]
Originally by: hired goon
I know, there should be a pos structure where you put a load of ship BPOs and every week you have to put 10 billion isk into it and it cooks away a ship that chooses a random template then increases in power exponentially as long as it's in there. That way you would have these super ships but not many, because if people take them out they'd be powerful but not as powerful as they could have been if they were left in. And you'd have people leaving them in for like years, and there would be competitions between who can keep theirs in the longest, and if you destroy the pos all progress is lost. So you get alliances undocking this super leet monster as their last pos is enroached upon OH MAN THIS HAS TO HAPPEN
And thus the prophecy was told. 
Who comes out last wins Eve. Ironic.
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.21 01:49:00 -
[62]
I'd prefer a mechanism where the best and the baddest PvP players get rewarded with increasingly badass ships. Perhaps some mechanic that allows modification/enhancement of your existing pvp ship based on your success. So the longer you keep it in 1 piece, the more you can upgrade it, but more upgrades possible only after risky pvp exposure. Simply being in 40 man fleet ganking a hauler at a gate would do nothing.
And trying to trade that ship to another char should remove all the modifications.
I don't want to see any sleazy carebear or item collector hogging the best killing machines. They don't deserve it.
That would be damn cool, but I find it highly improbable to happen for EVE
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.21 03:02:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 20/07/2009 23:25:31
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
So, this is how the great and legendary Istvaan fades into the human failure that is a forum whiner. What a sad day for EVE. What's next, Chribba whining about slow asteroid regeneration rates?
Can I make a forum post without some pissant with no name declaring me fallen from grace, or is that too much to ask?
#2... 
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 04:58:00 -
[64]
I'm not sure if this is exactly what your getting at, but i remember when I started my first character. There's enough people logged in Jita or a large 0.0 op in today's EvE to fill 20% of the total population. It just feels like what you do has less of a direct impact on what's going on than before. It's like you go out for a fight and finding some thing you can engage with 1 or 2 of your buds is nearly impossible because there are just simply more people online, so you end up getting blobbed. I'm not complaining, EvE has just changed a lot from the good ol' days.
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AngryMax
Gallente
Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.07.21 07:58:00 -
[65]
I like this thread. A lot.
I don't know if many of you remember Quake I, but when iD released Quake II most of us didn't bother. Big difference was that Quake II was balanced and boring as hell. Balance as i've said before on these forums makes for a really really dull and gray gameplay. I've seen this over and over with games. Eve has been no exception.
I don't really know how to fix it. The authority balancing this game has been moving towards that boring line of sameness for such a long time it seems hopeless. In my opinion they just don't get it on a very fundamental level. The shift for boost requests on this forum is just proof of it.
You could bring EOS back to its overpowered state.
Or give back some of that awesome nano power.
Make ECM work on a Domi again?
Restore drone BW on Myrm.
Give Amarr recons overpowered Nos ability.
Maybe, you could overpower certain ships for every race so that everyone has something to be proud of. Something that Matar has done better than others. Or some badass tech Gallente have that no one else can duplicate. Something for every race.
Long story short, instead of having a bunch of nails with none sticking out, have some that do. In crooked disgusting ways if necessary, but have something that stands out.
Does it really matter which BS you fly anymore?
P.S.
I wouldn't care if i am on a receiving end.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.21 08:09:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 21/07/2009 08:12:05
Originally by: Ephemeron
I'd prefer a mechanism where the best and the baddest PvP players get rewarded with increasingly badass ships. Perhaps some mechanic that allows modification/enhancement of your existing pvp ship based on your success. So the longer you keep it in 1 piece, the more you can upgrade it, but more upgrades possible only after risky pvp exposure. Simply being in 40 man fleet ganking a hauler at a gate would do nothing.
And trying to trade that ship to another char should remove all the modifications.
I don't want to see any sleazy carebear or item collector hogging the best killing machines. They don't deserve it.
That would be damn cool, but I find it highly improbable to happen for EVE
Sounds quite silly imo. Maby it would work in WOW. But in EVE? No, too silly. Compare it to RL Navy: All of the battleships in a navy are pretty standard, do it make sense to let them upgrade if, and only if, they kill the other navys ships?
One thing about EVE is that it removes that kind of arbitrary wierd rules more befitting fantasy games. A ships is a ship. There are mods avaliable. And everybody is free to make the ships with all the mods avaliable. As long as one got the skills and isk to do so.
And whats your beef with carebears collecting stuffs? They make mighty fine pray when they do undock a prize ship you know ;).
Really, in EVE the best killing machine is the pilot. The pilots who can read the current situation and make some good calls on it will usually be the one to prosper in fights. With so many layers palying EVE now a days, one usually need a gang to accomplish a lot, but when you lead a gang right you can do some cool stuff. :)
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Tranka Verrane
Angelic Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.21 23:11:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Nyveg
Originally by: hired goon
I know, there should be a pos structure where you put a load of ship BPOs and every week you have to put 10 billion isk into it and it cooks away a ship that chooses a random template then increases in power exponentially as long as it's in there. That way you would have these super ships but not many, because if people take them out they'd be powerful but not as powerful as they could have been if they were left in. And you'd have people leaving them in for like years, and there would be competitions between who can keep theirs in the longest, and if you destroy the pos all progress is lost. So you get alliances undocking this super leet monster as their last pos is enroached upon OH MAN THIS HAS TO HAPPEN
And thus the prophecy was told.
Who comes out last wins Eve. Ironic.
I think this thread in general is a silly whine but I actually like this idea. You could call them Prototype class ships. Maybe in keeping with rl prototypes they would randomly explode as well, so not last forever to terrorize all of Eve.
Player Since 2005
Over 4000 hours logged
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