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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.19 18:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Nian Banks on 19/07/2009 18:55:33
Guys I have a little situation, I am doing some naff missions to get standing up with a corp that only has upto level 2's and many in low sec.
With no interest in spending much cash in a ship that won't see any serious action and if it does, I can say "Such is life, next ship" I was thinking of
the breacher. Its happy going at 900m/s with an AB and it does low dps but fine for the missions. No tech2 as its meant to be cheap so am considering this.
[Breacher, PvE Cheap]
High
3x 'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
1x Salvager I
Medium
1x 1MN Afterburner I
1x Small Shield Extender I
Low
1x Damage Control I
1x Ballistic Control System I
Rigs
nill
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Dhaaka Vincatar
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Posted - 2009.07.19 19:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dhaaka Vincatar on 19/07/2009 19:39:43
Yeah, if I was missioning in a Breacher that's probably what I would use, except I might drop the afterburner for another Shield Extender or a booster as the range on standard missiles is pretty good and you don't need the speed very much for level 1's.
Also, I would probably use explosive missiles (Piranha I think they are) as the Breacher gets +50% damage (at Frigate 5) as opposed to +25% on EM, kinetic and thermal.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.19 19:48:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Dhaaka Vincatar
Edited by: Dhaaka Vincatar on 19/07/2009 19:39:43
Yeah, if I was missioning in a Breacher that's probably what I would use, except I might drop the afterburner for another Shield Extender or a booster as the range on standard missiles is pretty good and you don't need the speed very much for level 1's.
Also, I would probably use explosive missiles (Piranha I think they are) as the Breacher gets +50% damage (at Frigate 5) as opposed to +25% on EM, kinetic and thermal.
Lol yeah speed tanking may be worthless but it goes at 940m/s with a basic t1 AB and that could save me, I think... As for the missile type, yeah forgot to change it to Piranha. With those missiles it gets a lame 48dps but for lvl1's that's fine.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:14:00 -
[4]
Why would you ever fly the breacher when this has more tank and dps?
[Rifter, mission rifter]
Damage Control I
Overdrive Injector System II
Gyrostabilizer I
1MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Extender I
Stasis Webifier I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Upgrade to t2 and you're doing 100dps. Even t1 fit it outdamages the breacher. And if the difference is cost actually matters to you. You're doing something horribly wrong.
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Aranis Nax
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Posted - 2009.07.20 01:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Why would you ever fly the breacher when this has more tank and dps?
To fly something different for a change?
Though I agree with you that strictly looking at dps/tank ability a rifter wins out, same with most of the higher tier frigates/cruisers being significantly more powerfull then lower tier ships.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.20 05:08:00 -
[6]
Why fly a breacher?
 Its something different as Aranis said, I've never flown one in all this time.
Its the only Minmatar ship which isn't a gun boat. Missiles FTW.
Its hella cheap. Why does cost matter? Because its so cheap I don't care about loosing it.
The dps may be lower but missiles always hit (unless the rat has defenders), transversal is my friend.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.20 07:16:00 -
[7]
94 dps and can choose the damage type. Don't worry about the rigs as they will be super cheap when the rig size changes make it to tq and even now they are only about 2~4 mil each depending on where you get them.
[Breacher, lol]
Ballistic Control System II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Medium Shield Extender II
1MN Afterburner II
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Gremlin Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, EMP S
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.20 07:39:00 -
[8]
Depending on how the sized rigs end up are they going to be an option?
[Breacher, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Extender I
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Otherwise I would either go for your setup with a shield power relay substituting the damage control or with a small shield booster and PDU.
--
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 08:37:00 -
[9]
If rockets gets fixed the breacher might be somewhat useful for starting out in PvP.
It kind of lack mid and low slots do either shiled or armor tank properly while providing tackle at the same time :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.07.20 09:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Why would you ever fly the breacher when this has more tank and dps?
(rifter setup)
Because way more range, slightly less dps is a way better choice in PvE. Your Rifter got 500m optimal range ffs...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.20 10:19:00 -
[11]
If and when Rockets get a remake, j may considder a Rocket Breacher.
As it stands now however, the range of standard missile far outweigh the rockets in functionality.
I admit that a 4:2:2 slot layout doesn't lend the breacher to any great tank and truth be told if I had the CPU and grid, I may considder a mwd, 9k scram, plate and bcu with a mix of armor rigs that would maximize it's ehp.
That could work.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.20 14:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nian Banks
Why fly a breacher?
Its hella cheap. Why does cost matter? Because its so cheap I don't care about loosing it.
Yes losing a rifter is painful on the wallet.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.07.20 14:31:00 -
[13]
Way back in the day you could hunt BS rats with a rocket breacher rather well.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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rodensteiner
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:52:00 -
[14]
Have you considered using a Punisher?
You could T1 fit it for cheap, and you wouldn't have to worry about running out of ammunition. Just a thought.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:59:00 -
[15]
The Vigil can be a fun mission boat too. It's fast and it has a tiny drone bay!
-/ the fighting republicans /- |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: rodensteiner
Have you considered using a Punisher?
You could T1 fit it for cheap, and you wouldn't have to worry about running out of ammunition. Just a thought.
I could pilot the Punisher but the main reason I am flying the breacher is because it's a missile ship. Been using turrets for years now, never once did I bother with a dedicated missile ship and the idea of ignoring transversal is appealing.
NB however I refuse to pilot a drake or raven, I don't mind easy mode in lvl 1's & 2's but not for lvl 4's
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rodensteiner
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:04:00 -
[17]
OK, fair enough.
Have a look at the Inquisitor. 4/2/3 layout with 3 launcher slots.
Just trying to think of other options for you 
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Buffalo Soldiers
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 20/07/2009 20:00:08
The Breacher (and pretty much any non-rookie frigate) can easily speed tank level 1 missions without an afterburner. You don't need a DCU, nor a shield extender. If it makes you happier, put some passive shield resist mods in the mids for the NPC damage type.
[Breacher, naked]
High
3x 'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
1x Salvager I
Medium
1x EM Resist Amp
1x Thermal Resist Amp
Low
2x Ballistic Control System I
That is all.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Nullshadow
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:26:00 -
[19]
I ran my early missions in both Breachers and Rifters and I thought the Breacher was a lot more fun to fly. There's nothing wrong with your posted fitting, although I prefer MAPC+MSE to DC+SSE. However MAPC+MSE seems to require top-notch fitting skills and/or higher-meta named modules for some slots, which may make it less desirable for your throwaway purposes.
I did fit an AB for my high-sec funtime but I do not think it helped me much; it was mostly there for fun (and quicker mission drop looting time). It might be more useful for your low-sec flying (e.g. getting off the acceleration gates fast).
In any case I had a blast being a little PvE missile-spewing speed demon, and to this day I would be hard pressed to name a ship that's been more fun to fly than that old Breacher. I say fly it and have fun!
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Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
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Posted - 2009.07.21 03:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Why would you ever fly the breacher when this has more tank and dps?
[Rifter, mission rifter]
Stasis Webifier I
what are you in such need to web that you cant hit with 125mm autocannons... seriously pfft!
[Rifter, pve]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Damage Control II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium Shield Extender II
1MN Afterburner II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Barrage S
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
(resistance rigs based on npcs being fought most + them being SMALL rigs from the coming rig balancing patch)
... back to the breacher.
[Breacher, pve]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
1MN Afterburner II
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router I
Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
... tough on powergrid
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.21 09:01:00 -
[21]
Most of these setups you guys are posting are great, keep it up, I'm looking forward to what else can be done.
Do you think a small smartbomb would have a use? Also if you armor tanked it would the tackle be worth the loss of a bcu?
What if you wanted to pvp in a breacher? Can it be effective?
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Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.21 18:56:00 -
[22]
I was thinking of a PvP breacher. Hows this look? Its not much but can it work?
[Breacher, PvP Armor]
High
3x Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
1x Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Medium
1x 1MN Afterburner II
1x Warp Scrambler II
Low
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x Small Armor Repairer II
Rigs
1x Anti-Explosive Pump I
1x Anti-Kinetic Pump I
1x Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
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Duke Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.07.21 18:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nian Banks
I was thinking of a PvP breacher. Hows this look? Its not much but can it work?
[Breacher, PvP Armor]
High
3x Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
1x Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Medium
1x 1MN Afterburner II
1x Warp Scrambler II
Low
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1x Small Armor Repairer II
Rigs
1x Anti-Explosive Pump I
1x Anti-Kinetic Pump I
1x Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
no
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.07.21 19:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nian Banks
I was thinking of a PvP breacher. Hows this look? Its not much but can it work?
The Breacher is "little more than a scrap heap." Tanking it is useless.
[Breacher, gankish]
3x Standard Launcher, Caldari Navy Piranha
1x 150mm Autocannon II, Barrage S
Cold-Gas Arcjet Thruster I (afterburner)
Sensor Booster II, scan res
2x BCU II
forget about rigs
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Dario Wall
Caldari
Corvus Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.21 19:34:00 -
[25]
I suppose it could be interesting in PVP if you had a small gang of them together. It would be like when you're a kid and you throw a rock at the hornet nest, only to have them all come out and swarm you.
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Nullshadow
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.07.22 14:08:00 -
[26]
The Breacher is not ideal for PvPing. It has less DPS than a Rifter, combined with all of the midslot flexibility of a Punisher with all of the tank of a tissue paper. Its great advantage in PvE is range, and that's a disadvantage in PvP because you can't lock anything down long enough to kill it.
You could try rockets but my understanding is that they are currently considered broken in PvP. Frigates can mitigate a lot of the damage through speed, even while webbed. I have not experimented myself, but if you look through these forums you will find someone posting the math to explain the problem. If you are attacking larger foes the sig/speed/explosion radius ratios are not a problem, but you have to be so close in (~7km?) that you are at extreme risk of web/neut(or even /smartbomb) death.
You could bring a gang of Breachers out for a roam, or a mixed tackler/Breacher gang, but the only advantage over an all-Rifter gang that I can think of off-hand would be less vulnerability to bombs. Still, it would be fun.
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Joahanas Stone
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.22 15:09:00 -
[27]
I know this option is not as cheap or possibly you do not have the skills but look at the Heretic and flycatcher interdictors. They are little missile boats which you can load up pretty well for escaping PvP situations. ecm, warp stabs, and bubbles =-)
They also should be able to deal with level 1 and 2 missions
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Hamatitio
Caldari
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.07.22 15:44:00 -
[28]
When they introduced the rocket bonus to certain t1 ships from each race, they messed up the decimal point on the breacher and it wound up doing something insane like 1,000 dps.
Hijack this |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.22 18:04:00 -
[29]
I guess I should say that for pvp I'm not using my main, an alt I have is max skill in everything frigate and destryer t1 and t2, max skill in all frigate weapons including torps for stealth bombers and max on drone and speed and tank. That's the toon that would pvp in the breacher. So if you are thinking that eft numbers won't be realistic if I fit it... So yeah just wondering, are rockets truly that bad? Or are people just complaining for the heck of it again?
The reason why I want to try the pvp breacher is its the only minmatar missile boat and I just have to find a viable fit.
So guys, for the sake of the lowly Breacher, help me find a place for it in pvp, let's save it from obscurity. :)
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Nullshadow
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.07.23 00:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nian Banks
So yeah just wondering, are rockets truly that bad? Or are people just complaining for the heck of it again?
Do a search in the forums on something like "rocket explosion velocity frigate" and you will find a number of threads on the topic and suggestions on what to do about it. The math can get a bit confusing (floor functions and powers of logarithms and the like). Well, at least I am mostly confused by the discussions. In essence it seems that a bunch of ratios combine to make Rockets hit even normal-speed frigates for comparatively low damage*, and it's really not hard to get a frigate moving pretty darn fast. If you can web down your target then the damage is merely slightly weak rather than awful, but the two mids on a Breacher means that you can only have two of {speed mod/web/scram}. You get to choose between getting kited, minimal DPS vs. other frigates, or having your opponent laugh and warp off at leisure.
The numbers work out well for hitting cruisers, so a gang of hunter-killer Breachers would have a better time of hunting larger prey.
* By contrast the ratios do not work out so badly for HAMs in their class range, and anything with Torpedoes can usually afford to fit a TP to bring their numbers up to snuff.
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