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Killboards - Do they improve your EVE experience?

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Psiri	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:37:00 - [1] When killboards first came around the corner I thought that they were very cool, finally pilots had a tool to track their kills and losses. Sure, it was flawed (and still is) with the actual loss estimations being poor, killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule.
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Psiri Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. You basically answered your own question here. Yes it does enhance your experience because killboards will make you think twice about a fitting.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:56:00 - [3] When I'm doing well I like them, and when i'm doing badly I ignore them. Right now my K:D is pretty pro \o/
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:57:00 - [4] I dont think he was asking himself a question thus the notion he answered it himself is null.
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Nova Fox I dont think he was asking himself a question thus the notion he answered it himself is null. Topic title is a 100% pure question.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:06:00 - [6] Ah yes it is a question but what sort of variety?
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Nova Fox Ah yes it is a question but what sort of variety? the one that requieres an answer? :)
Xious Caldari Silent Wolves 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:18:00 - [8] I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days"
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:19:00 - [9] Would, if it was ingame and automated. Also a Wing Commander style "chalk killboard" of all the things you've blown up PVE would be nice. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Mors Magne M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:20:00 - [10] Edited by: Mors Magne on 24/07/2009 10:22:30 The killboards are encouraging me to invent 'oddball' fits to counter standard fits that are likely to be thrown at me. In fact, an 'oddball' Nightmare surprised me and killed my Fleet Stabber last night. The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:22:00 - [11] They're unforgiving to noobs and those who harbor them. We do and we've more than once heard people tell us they're not impressed with our statistics. These days when someone asks for a link to our board I just tell them to get lost. Most often in a roundabout socially approved manner. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Mors Magne M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:40:00 - [12] If you PvP in a good gang, you should do ok on the killboards. In this situation, they are encouraging The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Cipher7 Slag Industries	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:47:00 - [13] It's one more metric. Either you play the killboard game or no.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Xious I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days" this Killboards leave a permanent record of pilot achievement - without them, you could kill people all day long and nobody would really know or care. Posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Killboards encourage PvP imo - Contagious -
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:56:00 - [15] They can be a useful tool, but they do nothing for the already massive girth of my internet genitals. Like most things, there is a balance to the use of killboards. They can be great for fostering competition within a corp or alliance as well as keeping track of performance, but at the same time they can make people afraid of taking chances, for fear of looking foolish. Frankly, everyone should just keep their killboards private. Less e-peen waving that way.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Xious I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days" this Killboards leave a permanent record of pilot achievement - without them, you could kill people all day long and nobody would really know or care. Posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Killboards encourage PvP imo Agreed. And I for one love the commnets fileds on most killboards as well (Well, our private killboard at any rate). Public killboards has its uses as well, and I think Battle clinic has had somenice stats updates, and got a decent estimate of isk values. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/07/2009 12:04:57 I agree with the OP in all points. Killboards destroy the fun on EVE. Many "carebears" don't want try PVP because they don't want be humiliated by their poor performance, who would be reported in all KBs by syndication. Many PVP players have serious e-peen problem and do everything to keep his stats as high as possible, accusating corpmates at the same time, etc... Sometimes, I refuse to participate to an OP because I am sure that I will add one loss to my stats (And I have only 41 losses...). Etc... Same if you don't care of your stats, some people will make you remember of their existence. They are good only for people who like them... Killboards need to be removed, or at least, to be modified, and I think the best solution to modify them, is to remove the victim name of a Killmail/Lossmail. Only this, so Corp/Alliance of the victim still remains, his fit, etc... This would solve all problems : Killmails still give his gratification to the killers/Corp/Alliance, but the loss will be only Corp/Alliance. No fear for a big history loss in a PERSONAL view, so this would motivate recalcitrants players to try PVP, try exotic fits, etc... Without removing the benefits of the KBs. _______ Local is fine, period.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Sky Marshal Killboards need to be removed, or at least, to be modified, and I think the best solution to modify them, is to remove the victim name of a killmail. Only this. This would solve all problems : Killmails still give his rewards to the killers/Corp/Alliance, but the loss will be only Corp/Alliance. No fear for a big history loss in a PERSONAL view. This would motivate recalcitrants players to try PVP, without removing the benefits of the KBs. I disagree. It will not sovle the non existant problem at all. If killboards mean that much to you, that you will not join in an OP. Then it sounds like a personal problem, not a killboard problem tbh. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Shinnen Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Shinnen on 24/07/2009 12:14:55 For me, I mainly solo / small gang pvp now. I like it that I can track what I've killed in a nicely visual represented manner. And my e-peen does grow when I look at some kills where 2 AFs killed a BS and you get a nice K:D ratio. BUT (and it's a big one) I find it frustrating that the statistics are very arbitrary (and only exist for the sole purpose of comparing one to other pvpers) If I lose a 180m isk fitted Phobos, it leaves a mark on your "efficiency %" but should it really since I lost it to a carrier hotdrop? Or last week I lost 4 ships. 3 of those deaths I was outnumbered at least 5:1. Yet it still leaves a mark, and to someone who doesn't pay attention, eventhough there was absolutely no way I could have survived any of those fights it's still bundled among the 1 fight that was my own stupid fault! Basically, what I'm saying, unless you look at circumstances, which often are impossible to know just from looking at a killmail. The statistics on killboards are useless. edit: I must say, just looking at my own stats now, that the "isk killed:isk lost" and "kill:death" ratios do somewhat show circumstances. For example: (since corp setup this killboard) I have killed ~3.5 times the number of ships I've lost. But I have destroyed 7 times the amount of ISK that I've lost. (epeen!!)
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:54:00 - [20] I do find killboards quite nice as: 1) Bit of a laughter at certain fits/fights 2) Fight remainder 3) Intel tool 4) A tool to keep track of how you're performing compared to yourself at/in different times/ships It really might be frustrating to people who're not all that good in PvP, but tbh after you cross a certain border you really stop caring all that much.
Peter Powers FinFleet	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:26:00 - [21] short answer: yes long answer: i like being competative, and killboards or ranking tools like everanking are a good way to make pvp more of a competition, also they allow to measure ones performance and see how well one is doing compared to others.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs I disagree. It will not sovle the non existant problem at all. If killboards mean that much to you, that you will not join in an OP. Then it sounds like a personal problem, not a killboard problem tbh. People hate lose. Only PVP specialized players think that "carebears" don't want PVP or go to low/null sec only because of a risk/reward ratio. It is a reason, but not the only one, it is more complicated that this. And as they like stats, they can't understand people who hate them and can't see any of their problems. Same if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. So Killboards have an impact on your playstyle. You can't do whatever you want so can't have fun, as you have to work efficiently. Personaly, I don't use any fragile ships (dictors, ceptors, etc...), to avoid some losses. I don't think that I am the only one, as my Alliance often whine about the leak of dictors on fleet. A loss is a loss, whatever the size of the ship or the importance of the ship. So indeed, it is a personal problem, but you will make an error if you think that we could be only few ones to have this behaviour. People hate lose. So Killboards are an annoyance as they encourage the fear of lose by keeping an history, but it can be corrected without removing their advantages. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong It really might be frustrating to people who're not all that good in PvP, but tbh after you cross a certain border you really stop caring all that much. Same if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. I don't think your CEOs or your corpmates would appreciate a 1:3 ratio in your stats. Well, you have 14:1, so it is not a problem for you. Killboards means competition, but competition don't have only advantages. _______ Local is fine, period.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:34:00 - [23] I dislike killboards and to a lesser extent killmails. Because the minute an out of game statistic holds more value to a player than an ingame statistic (like isk) things tend to get skewed horribly. Ransoms get declined over favour of the mighty K:D and Destroyed:Lost ratios. To some people the only option IS to kill, ransoms have no foothold. But, on the other hand, Killboards and Killmails have been resident in eve for far too long for anything to change significantly. Even if they do hurt the game (Subjective to each persons viewpoint) nothing can really be done without "hurting" organisations built around their Killmail shrines. I personally think CCP dislikes the way people have formed around killmails, otherwise CCP would have a central killboard set up themselfs by now. But who really knows? Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:56:00 - [24] I have no use for killboards. I don't use them, don't read them, and don't care that they exist. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Armoured C Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:19:00 - [25] in short yes in longer detail YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Armoured C forum extraordinaire #69 top poster
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:53:00 - [26] I completely agree with you. Too many epeens and people thinking they are master admirals. This is why EVE has no central KB, they are hosted outside. CCP saw this would be a result and it does take away from the game. My Corp had always been a powerhouse and we dabbled in all EVE had to offer. But now we have some new blood up in the ranks and all they do is check your KB every day and make policy based on that. Like they forget about everything else EVE has to offer. They do take it WAY too seriously. Kind of annoying. I guess these guys donÆt get much recognition for anything they do in life and this is the only way it can get quantified. There are several issues here: 1) The way sovereignty is gained and held, needs to include more aspects of EVE, which by devblogs, CCP seems to be doing. 2) Public KBs as opposed to internal war/casualty reports. 3) Small realpeens Maybe other types of boards the focus more on economic might, or production ability may help spread it out.
Armoured C Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 15:03:00 - [27] it good to see how many people you have killed. some people like to know, somepeople arn't bothered with it. most of the time you dont get the loots for bigger battles so i use my KM as a trophy. I would much rather collect heads that trophies but it is of similar things. they are also handy for intellegence gathering since you see kills in a perticular area on one day and different the next you can learn enemy movements. Armoured C forum extraordinaire #69 top poster
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.07.24 15:11:00 - [28] Yeah they do. I enjoy breaking other people's stuff. I could probably work how much of their stuff I had broken with a calculator and the original killmail but a killmail makes it nice and convenient. What's wrong with that? Quote: Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, Meh. Space money is so easy to get and it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies like seeing the expensive stuff people had on their ship. I'd do it without a killboard just for the lulz but a KB prolongs the untowards chuckling session that ensues when I pop something expensive. Quote: would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, Risky or pointless? I guess you're right to an extent. I see a lot of people who fly like total wimps. I can't really fault them for it tactically but I do feel like their egos just can't cope with losing. On the bright side you know that popping those people is going to feel twice as good and make them feel twice as bad, so meh. Quote: don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. Why would it put you off that? People don't necessarily laugh at oddball fits. It's more total fail fits that make people guffaw. By that I mean fits that attempted something in a totally poorly thought out manner or attempted something that was just never going to work. Oddball fits are more likely to get people thinking tbh. "What's he done there? What's the thought process? Is that as silly as it looks?" What it does provide you with is data on the efficacy of weird fits and new tactics.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 16:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Psiri However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Wall of Text incoming: PvP is always about e-peen. Killboards offer a way to prove or disprove a PvPer's boasting that would otherwise not be available. For example, I'm told by recent WoW refugees that World of Warcraft added a stat tracking system that says you've killed NPC Boss X however many times, or you have X number of player kills - but what it doesn't say is who was killed, what level they were, or anything else relevant to whether or not the kill was 'good', so what you get is a lot of gankbears saying "look at me, I r pro (WoW) pvper, I have 9001 player kills, phear mah 1336 skillz!!!" But what you don't see is that he's a level 80 toon camping quest points in a level 20 zone smashing newbies by the dozen and running away when high level players come to discourage him. In EVE, we had a guy called Ginger Magician camping gates and killing haulers, shuttles and noob ships then coming to the forum to crow and preen about his thousands of kills making him the best PvPer EVAR!!!! Fortunately for us, we did have killboards and we could see what a waste of space he was, so all of his 1552 boasting was met with ridicule until he finally made RL threats at someone and got banned like an idiot. Recently, a pretty average gatecamping pirate corp got into a bunch of flak about editing a killmail to make their member look like less of a noob - he lost an Arazu to a Rifter, and the killmail was changed so that instead of displaying the ship he was killed by as a Tech 1 frigate, it was displayed as something else - a Dominix, if I remember correctly. Well, as we all know these killmails are often posted to multiple killboards, so the discrepancy was spotted immediately and much comedy ensued at the expense of the leet pvpers editing killmails to not look like noobs. Just like when a police detective is found to plant evidence it throws all of his previous arrests and subsequent convictions into question, so too was the united's entire PvP reputation tarnished by this. Now whenever they get to crowing about how awesome and scary and FIERCE PIRAT WARRIOR they are, we all just laugh at them. Their CEO is a meme. OPs like yours come along once a month or so, where someone who's bad at PvP or afflicted with pixel fear has been laughed at or is so afraid of being laughed at by internet spaceship nerds that he wants to garner support for pressing CCP to remove killmails, making killboards defunct. They think that it's the killboards' fault that 'leetkid' pvpers are arrogant and unfriendly toward strangers. They think that, without killboards, those people would all behave completely differently. Those people don't 'get' pvp; as suggested by the anecdotes above, a lack of killboards would make these people behave even worse. You think it's bad having to listen to the current PvP A-list (and B-list and C-list) crow about their uberness? Imagine having to listen to EVERYBODY, including scrubs like kow killa, go on and on about their internet spaceship mightiness and having no means of proving their claims false to shut them up? ~~Every 'leet' pvper~~ Every 'competent or better' pvper who isn't on a second toon (meaning, they haven't sold or traded their first 'main' to buy and/or bought a new one) has some old but fairly-easy-to-find loss mails from years ago that would make us all chuckle. Depending on whether they found a good corp early or not, and depending on their natural aptitude toward video games, some pilots have more of these embarrassing lossmails in their past than others. I think I've got a dozen or so, but I found BattleClinic and SHC early on, so I had access to good fittings and advice to save me from my inexperience. TL;DR: L2P. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer

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