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Killboards - Do they improve your EVE experience?

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Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Shinnen edit: I must say, just looking at my own stats now, that the "isk killed:isk lost" and "kill:death" ratios do somewhat show circumstances. For example: (since corp setup this killboard) I have killed ~3.5 times the number of ships I've lost. But I have destroyed 7 times the amount of ISK that I've lost. (epeen!!) edit 2: I also have 8 times the number of killpoints compared to loss points! BTW, I'm not so much epeening as pointing out that you have to look into more than just the factors displayed in a little box. How does this compare to other corp members? How does this compare to my time spent online? etc etc. This, yeah. The ISK efficiency is its own stat - and it will show whether you're just flying T1 frigates and leeching onto killmails or whether you're flying (risking) the best ships you can bring to the table for your gang. If you have 20 losses and have lost 4m ISK, it looks a lit different from someone with 20 losses who has lost 2b ISK. Also, the kill/loss points paint a pretty clear picture - if you have 100 kills but only 50 kill points, it's clear that you only fly with 'the blob' and gank people, because kill points (and accordingly, the loss points assessed to a 'victim') are cut down the more people are involved in a kill. So if you've got 100 kills and 10 losses with 50 kill points and 1000 loss points... it's very clearly different from 10 kills with 1000 kill points and 100 losses with 50 loss points. The raw K:D ratio (which is simply ships killed vs. ships lost, regardless of ISK value and kill/loss points) looks crappy for the second guy, but I know who I'd rather fly with. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Frobos	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:13:00 - [32] Just like sports.....if humans didn't have an insatiable desire to compete, win at competing, and then brag about our victories while sitting atop the highest mountain, ESPN would most likely be a arts & crafts channel. [/slip into flame-resistant suit] I'm going out on a limb here and say that killboards came about pre-killmail implementation and not only aren't needed anymore just to keep track of your kills/losses, but I wouldn't be surprised if they become even more ingrained. And who knows if (when) CCP will finally break down and make the "feature" part of the web site and/or in-game viewing.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:16:00 - [33] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 24/07/2009 17:16:04 Originally by: Psiri When killboards first came around the corner I thought that they were very cool, finally pilots had a tool to track their kills and losses. Sure, it was flawed (and still is) with the actual loss estimations being poor, killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. Of course. I can look at it and discuss with my corpmates over a lolworthy kill. I can harass my corpmates over embarrassing kills (in a joking manner, of course). Killboards are awesome.. Then again, my corp doesn't really care too much about ePeening...I suppose if we gave a damn about epic killboard stats and ePeens that you could impale small (internet) children on, it would be annoying.
Adeline Grey	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:43:00 - [34] Yes. I love killboards. I wish we had a built-in Eve wide killboard.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.24 18:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. so do you think that without killboards everyone would fly around solo or in evenly matched gangs looking for good fights? IMO, Without the reward of killmails, the only reward would be ISK from your kills; you'd see even more ganks and running away here because nobody wants to lose ISK for nothing. If you lose a ship, but kill some people in the process - It's not so bad, you lost but it dosen't feel so bad since you got some killmails out of it. Take away those killmails and the only thing that really matters is who got to pick the loot up - Contagious -
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:34:00 - [36] Edited by: Spaceman Jack on 24/07/2009 19:38:37 - Yes KBs promote PVP. - No KBs do not improve my PVP experience. - Removing KB would not kill PVP. Blowing up a ship is just as fun to me regardless of whether others find out about it or not. People still like to kill and dominate others in thier own mind and we will always need to PVP in order to secure territory. Other peoples opinions do not interest me. Especially those who do nothing more with their time other than play games for 20 hours a day and worry about virtual KB stats. You wanna brag about kills, join the military. If you are going to boast about some BS you did while sitting at home in your air-conditioned seat... you are useless.
Iece Quaan Caldari Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:43:00 - [37] I think killboards have largely ended the interminable arguments of old where people disputed who killed what and when. Which is fine. Eve needs a way for opponents to track the effectiveness of war campaigns against each other. However, the arguing about who killed what is now replaced with the relative value of kills vs. opponents kills, and arguing over stat interpretation to show that you are doing better ( or your opponent doing worse ) than is shown. I think there's a strong departure from "pvp for the love of the game" as opposed to pvp for point-whoring epeen. It's not as though it was ever about anything other than epeen, but simple point amalgamations and k/d ratios make it worthwhile to kill anyone, doing anything, in any ship or situation- as opposed to a more nebulous sort of glory for killing something high-value. There's every incentive to simply shoot everything that moves for points, which closes off opportunity for deeper interaction between players.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:45:00 - [38] Originally by: Psiri killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. Also, killboards don't 'favor' gang/fleet pilots etc. The smaller your gang, the more points each individual pilot gets, up to solo kills which earn the most kill points. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. so do you think that without killboards everyone would fly around solo or in evenly matched gangs looking for good fights? IMO, Without the reward of killmails, the only reward would be ISK from your kills; you'd see even more ganks and running away here because nobody wants to lose ISK for nothing. If you lose a ship, but kill some people in the process - It's not so bad, you lost but it dosen't feel so bad since you got some killmails out of it. Take away those killmails and the only thing that really matters is who got to pick the loot up Like the guy below you said, I don't need others to read a board to validate my fun. Blobs were less frequent before killboards yes, does it necessarily have anything to do with each other, the server being less populated, questionable. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:51:00 - [40] Killboards are a pretty sweet intelligence tool. So often a hostile gang is reported in Providence but nobody can say what the hostile gang is flying. Look up that alliance's killboard, check out their latest victim in Providence, and there's a good indicator of what the hostile gang is packing right there. One can fire up a gang specifically designed to stop the hostile gang with a quickness and without ever having to directly scout the hostile gang. This works well enough even with the killboards that "classify" a kill location. If you have a list of hostile names, and you can find a kill that occured within the past few minutes that contains those names, it's a pretty good indicator that's the gang you're looking for.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:12:00 - [41] Some people enjoy games as much for the statistics involved as for the fun of actually playing the game itself. Kills are just another statistic in this PVP based game. If you really think those pirates popped your ship simply because they wanted to pad their KB stats, and that if there were no KB's they would have ransomed you instead, you need to rethink what motivates most pirates. It is often quicker to just kill the ship and take its loot than to mess around with a ransom. And for those pirates who aren't that worried about the value of each kill they make, well, they would kill you for the pleasure of doing so whether your death was recorded on a KB somewhere or not. If you don't like KB's, dont' use them... don't look at them... don't worry about them. They affect your gameplay not one wit unless "YOU" care a bit too much about what those KB's say. And in that case its you that is the problem, not the fact that KB's exist. Frankly, KB's of one type or another are inevitable. EVE is primarily a PVP game, why would you NOT keep track of combat results. It would be like playing Basketball without keeping score, and instead basing your view of who is doing better in that competitive sport by comparing the quality of their mascots, size of each players salary, and who had the best looking car. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:15:00 - [42] I want an CCP Killboard... I don't trust the other ones. Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:21:00 - [43] They are used as an intel tool. In that sense I don't like them. If you want to know what someone fits you should have to use espionage, ship scanners or just plain common sense, not your web browser. Also, KB whoring promotes meaningless PvP. I am not fulfilled when someone kills me just to see a number increase but for no other reason. In fact I hate that... is it a lot of the reason I don't PvP much anymore. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Wet Ferret They are used as an intel tool. In that sense I don't like them. If you want to know what someone fits you should have to use espionage, ship scanners or just plain common sense, not your web browser. Also, KB whoring promotes meaningless PvP. I am not fulfilled when someone kills me just to see a number increase but for no other reason. In fact I hate that... is it a lot of the reason I don't PvP much anymore. I agree... I hate the 'artificial' intel that KB's provide (and local but that is another argument). I also refuse to pop a ship just cause I got weapons on it and can... I like to have some sort of reason behind it other than trying to pad my KB numbers --------------- The Real Audrey Bitoni is hot This Capcha Sucks and is ineffective
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:54:00 - [45] If you don't like killboards then don't set one up. For other people it is important. Be it their epeen or a tool to monitor the quality of corp members or just a fine way of remembering a long gone engagement that made your heart pump - whats the matter? It hurts no one. Do people take them too seriously? Oh well this is eve people take everything way too seriously and thats why it is such a great experience. People will always be idiots they don't need killboards to do that. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:32:00 - [46] Never used a killboard, couldn't care less. Of course, I don't PvP, but I'm on a few people's KB's. Never understood the fascination, would think that the next kill is infinitely more important than the last one, TBH.
No Homo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:37:00 - [47] My ePeen is so big it can bruise lady's cervices just lookin' at it.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:49:00 - [48] Only thing I find ****ed about 'kill boards' is its not about the number of kills, but the isk you cost someone to lose. Should be called ISK BOARDS. And who ransoms anything worth less than a billion isk anyway? Originally by:** Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here i was thinking earlier about corpses...
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.07.24 22:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Iece Quaan I think killboards have largely ended the interminable arguments of old where people disputed who killed what and when. Which is fine. Eve needs a way for opponents to track the effectiveness of war campaigns against each other. I did not know that was a serious problem affecting the fun of the game. like you said though, it just started another set of problems. Case in point, at the end of the day, KB do little to add to the game other than to make some people feel better about something. It has little real value since any kind of intel can be done privately with KillMails, public KB do nothing but stroke ego. For the rest of us with big realpeens, we could care less.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:03:00 - [50] Two things that "hurt" (if it really mattered) the game: Killboards Mountain Dwarf Syndrome When it becomes all about the KB and people treat their clone vats like respawn points, as if it were a game of "Modern Warfare", it breaks the "expensive death" concept, which is still expensive for those who don't have the resources. I suspect that with all non-gank non-blob players being run out of lowsec, the clone vats, or more like the reason to have one in lowsec, will run dry. Mountain Dwarf Syndrome relates to the mountain dwarves seen in "The Hobbitt". Those greedy little dwarves, who just have to have it all, in ISK actually. EVERYTHING to them is based on ISK/Hour rate and they are as boring to deal with as a real person in a lounge talking about finace all day. If these people actually went to E-Bay with the same marketing and trade skills they used in game they could be very rich (but are afraid to risk eral money). What would be better than killboards would be a way to modify the graphics of our own ships in a pre-set way (so the server does not get overloaded) to have tallies or little ship images on our own ships that we have taken out, like an old WWII fighter plane. That would not only be a flying killboard of sorts and a warning to others, but cool too. Cool is good. If it were up to me, we should also be able to nail the frozen corpses of victims to our ships or stick their heads on the antenna - or put that big sticker thing on the Incurses to good use finally. But hey that's just be and it's Friday so I am getting rowdy.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:26:00 - [51] Well I look at killmails like trophies so I think they add to my experience, it's like kodak-moment you have a memory for life lol
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:32:00 - [52] didn't WoW have "killboards" first? i dunno just wondering.
DigitalCommunist November Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:50:00 - [53] Killboards were a great improvement on the days when people would bs about events, or have he-said-she-said caod wars. But, kills don't matter much now. PVP is a general passtime, which is incredibly easy to support. Battleships may still cost the same, but when you aren't investing weeks to replace them, the outcome of even dramatic and massive fleet battles has hardly any effect on you.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.07.25 03:11:00 - [54] Killboards are awesome. They give me all sorts of free intel about the current target I'm stalking. This is also why I don't poast killmails. Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.07.25 03:55:00 - [55] Until we joined Burning Horizons basically Galactic Express didn't use a killboard, so stats for us before that are sporadic and inaccurate. That said they can be useful. I like to look over enemy fits to see how better to fit my own ships. Though usually I can't afford the most expensive fits. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Trabber Shir Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.25 04:34:00 - [56] I think that the biggest kill boards have is they are too generic. A pirate that is trying to make ISK through PvP should be more interestd in the ration of value lost to value dropped by opponents. A mercenary trying to show they can cause finantial harm to a mark should be interested in advertising the reverse of that (enemy gains/losses). People at war should be interested in (lost-looted)/destroyed ISK ratio to indicate how much impact the war is having on the participants total resources. If you are looking for leet epeen you should be interested in kill points/loss points. etc. Similarly, a pirate should be putting custom entries on his KB indicating ransoms received. As it stands all killboards seem focused on the leet epeen aspect even when they should have more practical uses (advertising merc corps, evaluating profitability, etc.).
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2009.07.25 04:35:00 - [57] I'm not a fan of killmails. Often, the killmail is more important to someone than winning the fight. A tackler remaining on the opposite side of a gate won't be too happy about not getting to participate in a kill. Logistics ships are forced to use weapons of some sort to get on killmails. When I was in a 0.0 alliance, I'd hear a swarm of "Wheres the killmail? Who got the killmail? Someone post the killmail." while there were still hostiles in system; the killmail was more important than winning the battle to people. Others would even fire randomly at everyone, to make sure they got on every mail. I havn't had to deal with any of that lately, but the concept still remains. People will kill things that offer no benefit (isk, harming an enemy, etc.) to pad killboard stats. What finally drove me out of 0.0 entirely was the question "Anyone want to camp the empire gate? I need to pad my killboard stats.". Yes, they actually admitted they just wanted to look good on the killboard. I asked them if they wanted to join a roaming gang and they declined, because they were more likely to die and not look as good on the killboard. After joining a better corp, I've had none of those problems, but killboard stats are still given too much credit by most people. For example, destroying 200 million on an enemy looks 'better' than destroying a billion and losing a battleship for 150 million. Even if the ship is replaced immediately, cheap enough to be meaningless... In reality, the 'weight' of a loss has to due with the capacity of an enemy to replace the ship. If you lose a billion isk worth the ships, but destroy everything the enemy has, where they cannot replace ships... this would still, logically, be a 'win'. But in killboard-online, people would drool more over losing nothing and dealing insignificant damage to an enemy. Because the efficiency looks good. Less "We won the fight!" and more "Oh wow this ship had a faction mod fapfapfap".
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:20:00 - [58] I find it amusing that the "hardcore" pvp'ers tend to be the ones most terrified about showing up on the wrong end of the killboard.
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:45:00 - [59] Edited by: Bestofworst on 25/07/2009 06:50:06 I don't post killmails too often. because it's either so inconvenient (having to log in, or a killboard site acting up). Or if I lose I either: A) Want to fit another ship and kill the guy who got me or B) Log off and take a break My view on it, I look on killboards only when I'm bored and I only look at my own stats. I hardly care about if I came out in an lol fit. Edit: And to prove I don't care, here is a killmail of me being caught by amarr militia in high-sec while travelling a hyperion I fitted with mining lasers to attend someones mining op on a slow night. ---- My Music Anything I say is only what I think. If you have a problem with me, take it up with me.
Insa Rexion Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Rawr Cristina posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Really ? well mannered ah*

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