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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 61 post(s) |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
172
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Posted - 2012.05.25 16:58:00 -
[211] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Tippia wrote:Jimmy Luv wrote:A lack of communication on they're part should not consitute a problem on Outbreak/Hydras. It is when Outbreak/Hydra are the ones not communicating properlyGǪ ...what did we do wrong when we emailed the official Alliance Tournament address twice? Zero reply.
you continued to operate deep in the gray area under the assuption it was ok, that is what you did wrong To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:00:00 -
[212] - Quote
I also like how Sreegs seems to imply that reducing logistics is somehow dishonest because other teams have to work harder. I'm pretty sure any small alliance has to work harder per person compared to Goons and PL. Those guys are loaded and they have the numbers so logistics and procurement are not as big a burden. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:04:00 -
[213] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:I also like how Sreegs seems to imply that reducing logistics is somehow dishonest because other teams have to work harder. I'm pretty sure any small alliance has to work harder per person compared to Goons and PL. Those guys are loaded and they have the numbers so logistics and procurement are not as big a burden.
Or TEST. Don't forget about us. We don't even bother with wormholes, that is how little we work.
Don't pick on the little guys you CCP meanies!
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
220
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:05:00 -
[214] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Waiting for a response and continuing to perpetrate risky behavior is what I am talking about. While CCP should have gotten into contact with H/O, pushing forward like you got the clearance was rediculas.
RvB was given an exception, exceptions are by definition not standard practice and you had absolutely no reason to expect one.
Again, we got response from Senior GM and it was basically approved by CCP official who's on my skype. We got the clearance, we tried our best to contact AT team directly to completely ensure it. We didn't have a batphone to sort it out.
RvB is completely other situation because they were contacted by CCP, not vice versa (or at least they deserved CCP's attention if they initiated the contact). We would never ever field 2 teams after we started trainings together, if we knew it is considered as offence by CCP. We would never ever start training together if we got quick reply to our first email disallowing us to do so.
Please stop playing words - it won't make you right or wrong. Just face the fact that our requests to the highest AT commands were intentionally ignored by CCP, even though at least 1 person within company (or even two or 3) had our message at hands with appropriate requests to pass it to AT team, even if mail delivery failed. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
284
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:21:00 -
[215] - Quote
Hydra Outbreak Reloaded should STFU finally and get over the fact you have been banned from an official event you ruined last year. Even miscommunication with GMs should be reason enough to let you participate in AT again, EVER. You are banned and its good the way it is, DEAL WITH IT. |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:26:00 -
[216] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Hydra Outbreak Reloaded should STFU finally and get over the fact you have been banned from an official event you ruined last year. Even miscommunication with GMs shouldn't be reason enough to let you participate in AT again, EVER. You are banned and its good the way it is, DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES.
In response to this, and other posts like it, why are you guys so vindictive and angry at the previous champions for doing well enough in the previous tournament to secure both slots of the final match? |
Tawa Suyo
The Tuskers
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:28:00 -
[217] - Quote
Pallidum Treponema wrote:Raqn Paudeen wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I pretty much imagine the way this went down is the AT team giggling as they got each email from Garmon, passing it around the office and giggling some more.
This is clearly revenge for last year's finals, even though the metagaming antics of HYDRA made the entire tournament awesome to watch and think about. My question to the AT team is this. If you have been paying so much attention to HYDRA and what they have been doing, how did you overlook all the messages they sent to you? The whole thing seems a bit.. fishy, and honestly its a **** start to the AT.
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Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:31:00 -
[218] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Hydra Outbreak Reloaded should STFU finally and get over the fact you have been banned from an official event you ruined last year. Even miscommunication with GMs shouldn't be reason enough to let you participate in AT again, EVER. You are banned and its good the way it is, DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES. In response to this, and other posts like it, why are you guys so vindictive and angry at the previous champions for doing well enough in the previous tournament to secure both slots of the final match?
I think that the previous champions are the ones angry here. Just sayin' |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:32:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:[Again, we got response from Senior GM and it was basically approved by CCP official who's on my skype. We got the clearance, we tried our best to contact AT team directly to completely ensure it. We didn't have a batphone to sort it out. we've seen the gm response and it doesn't support your case |
pBump
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:34:00 -
[220] - Quote
Tawa Suyo wrote:Pallidum Treponema wrote:Raqn Paudeen wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I pretty much imagine the way this went down is the AT team giggling as they got each email from Garmon, passing it around the office and giggling some more.
This is clearly revenge for last year's finals, even though the metagaming antics of HYDRA made the entire tournament awesome to watch and think about. My question to the AT team is this. If you have been paying so much attention to HYDRA and what they have been doing, how did you overlook all the messages they sent to you? The whole thing seems a bit.. fishy, and honestly its a **** start to the AT.
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Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
173
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:35:00 -
[221] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:Karl Planck wrote:Waiting for a response and continuing to perpetrate risky behavior is what I am talking about. While CCP should have gotten into contact with H/O, pushing forward like you got the clearance was rediculas.
RvB was given an exception, exceptions are by definition not standard practice and you had absolutely no reason to expect one.
Again, we got response from Senior GM and it was basically approved by CCP official who's on my skype. We got the clearance, we tried our best to contact AT team directly to completely ensure it. We didn't have a batphone to sort it out.
Again, for like the tenth time, you got clearence for only a portion of what you were doing. You did not mention that you were in the same corp on sisi, in a wh, practicing together with mixed teams/coms/fittings/mods
If you want to provide some evidence of THAT correspondence, i'll change my tune
Kadesh Priestess wrote: RvB is completely other situation because they were contacted by CCP, not vice versa (or at least they deserved CCP's attention if they initiated the contact). We would never ever field 2 teams after we started trainings together, if we knew it is considered as offence by CCP. We would never ever start training together if we got quick reply to our first email disallowing us to do so.
Please stop playing words - it won't make you right or wrong. Just face the fact that our requests to the highest AT commands were intentionally ignored by CCP, even though at least 1 person within company (or even two or 3) had our message at hands with appropriate requests to pass it to AT team, even if mail delivery failed.
While it is unfortunate there was a lack of communication, you were completely in the wrong for going ahead like you had a green light. And you are certainly not boo-hoo'ing CCP because of lack of email clarity (calling for a reformat of how CCP delegates information), you are trying to get a reverse decision when you should have known (and obviously did know) how you were operating could get you disqualified.
To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:35:00 -
[222] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:I think that the previous champions are the ones angry here. Just sayin'
They certainly are angry, and I honestly don't blame them for it. What I don't understand is why so many people are making statements like "they should be banned from ever attempting to participate in the alliance tournament again," etc. |
Anna Katarr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:36:00 -
[223] - Quote
Raqn Paudeen wrote:
My question to the AT team is this.
If you have been paying so much attention to HYDRA and what they have been doing, how did you overlook all the messages they sent to you? The whole thing seems a bit.. fishy, and honestly its a **** start to the AT.
this.
also the fact that hydra nor outbreak never broke any rules during the last tournament, yeah, the final was a farce, but it was conform to the rules, like it or not.
and a SENIOR gm, not some trainee, allowed them to do whatever they did in that wormhole... i think its pretty clear that ccp's intention just was to **** hydra/outbreak as hard in the ass as they could, no matter what...
and then, they did... |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:38:00 -
[224] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP official who's on my skype
Hey one of you guys was looking for a batphone. Kadesh has one. I don't have one. I am jealous AND out meta-gamed.
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Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:39:00 -
[225] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:Time Funnel wrote:I think that the previous champions are the ones angry here. Just sayin' They certainly are angry, and I honestly don't blame them for it. What I don't understand is why so many people are making statements like "they should be banned from ever attempting to participate in the alliance tournament again," etc.
People making statements like that are often referred to as "Trolls"
I am also a Troll. So pay attention to me and keep talking to me. |
Kratisto
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:47:00 -
[226] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Hydra Outbreak Reloaded should STFU finally and get over the fact you have been banned from an official event you ruined last year. Even miscommunication with GMs shouldn't be reason enough to let you participate in AT again, EVER. You are banned and its good the way it is, DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES. In response to this, and other posts like it, why are you guys so vindictive and angry at the previous champions for doing well enough in the previous tournament to secure both slots of the final match?
So Germany and Spain decide for the Euro final they want the score to be 8-9 in Spains favor. The Germans come in and score 8 goals with apparent ease, and then stand about as Spain then returns the favor. They spend the last 20 minutes shaking hands and congratulating themselves about how awesome they are to reach 1 and 2 and share the prize money 50/50.
The fans and everyone in the crowd, they should be happy right?
They showed up to watch football, not to watch a giant pile of ****. Granted, the pile of **** was legal the first time around, so the result stood. But next tournament the teams seem to be doing the same thing, and this time there are rules against it. Are the fans who showed up to the farce supposed to have pity?
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
224
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:49:00 -
[227] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Again, for like the tenth time, you got clearence for only a portion of what you were doing. You did not mention that you were in the same corp on sisi, in a wh, practicing together with mixed teams/coms/fittings/mods
If you want to provide some evidence of THAT correspondence, i'll change my tune Testing against each other pretty much implies we do it in the same place. being in the same corp - is purely technical moment (like shared CEO of executor corp between trusted persons, because you can't have multiple characters fulfilling this role), it doesn't change anything regarding being entity or not. As you may know, we did it for corporate hangar access.
Sreegs says it is a difference which matters, i see you're inclined to believe him. But formal reasoning leads to few conclusions:
1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics 2) He doesn't care so much about what's shown in tournament, he wants to waste participants efforts on something which is largely behind the scenes - and only then he will call it fair
Or, as i previously voiced my opinion - he published opinion of the part of AT collective which is bitter because of AT IX finals.
Karl Planck wrote:While it is unfortunate there was a lack of communication, you were completely in the wrong for going ahead like you had a green light. And you are certainly not boo-hoo'ing CCP because of lack of email clarity (calling for a reformat of how CCP delegates information), you are trying to get a reverse decision when you should have known (and obviously did know) how you were operating could get you disqualified. Don't belittle significance of lack of communication. It was primary reason of recent events resulting in hydra ban.
And please stop justifying that CCP are humans too and can make mistakes from time to time. Making mistake isn't a problem, handling it - is. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:51:00 -
[228] - Quote
QQ more, chicken mcnublets |
Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
227
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:53:00 -
[229] - Quote
Kratisto wrote:They showed up to watch football, not to watch a giant pile of ****. AT players are humans too and making mistakes. And we're not obstinate, we admit them even on official level:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1531508-0/page/1 |
Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
227
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:55:00 -
[230] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:QQ more, chicken mcnublets I'm not surprised that you're so happy, We outplayed you on your own field even before AT matches started, you had bad chances to get 1st place in such conditions.
I'm really sure you will win this one, but it won't change the fact that you were completely outspied by someone who learned spy mastery from you few years ago. |
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Dr Robertson
ImpeviA
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:58:00 -
[231] - Quote
Kratisto wrote:Evelgrivion wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Hydra Outbreak Reloaded should STFU finally and get over the fact you have been banned from an official event you ruined last year. Even miscommunication with GMs shouldn't be reason enough to let you participate in AT again, EVER. You are banned and its good the way it is, DEAL WITH CONSEQUENCES. In response to this, and other posts like it, why are you guys so vindictive and angry at the previous champions for doing well enough in the previous tournament to secure both slots of the final match? So Germany and Spain decide for the Euro final they want the score to be 8-9 in Spains favor. The Germans come in and score 8 goals with apparent ease, and then stand about as Spain then returns the favor. They spend the last 20 minutes shaking hands and congratulating themselves about how awesome they are to reach 1 and 2 and share the prize money 50/50. The fans and everyone in the crowd, they should be happy right? They showed up to watch football, not to watch a giant pile of ****. Granted, the pile of **** was legal the first time around, so the result stood. But next tournament the teams seem to be doing the same thing, and this time there are rules against it. Are the fans who showed up to the farce supposed to have pity?
First of all AT isn't nowhere near sports/e-sports, and by looking at many previous ATs it never intended to be. We had many situations like this in past proving this (matches thrown/sold/outplayed), and CCP never intervened in past, and even said players should harden up, cause this is how EVE Online should look/feel like. Kinda hipocritic. |
Gabriel Kaile
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:02:00 -
[232] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:penifSMASH wrote:QQ more, chicken mcnublets I'm not surprised that you're so happy, We outplayed you on your own field even before AT matches started, you had bad chances to get 1st place in such conditions. I'm really sure you will win this one, but it won't change the fact that you were completely outspied by someone who learned spy mastery from you few years ago.
Wave your spacedick around some more, not everyone can see it. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:04:00 -
[233] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:penifSMASH wrote:QQ more, chicken mcnublets I'm not surprised that you're so happy, We outplayed you on your own field even before AT matches started, you had bad chances to get 1st place in such conditions. I'm really sure you will win this one, but it won't change the fact that you were completely outspied by someone who learned spy mastery from you few years ago.
sorry I can't hear your whining from my 3-time champions table |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:Karl Planck wrote:Again, for like the tenth time, you got clearence for only a portion of what you were doing. You did not mention that you were in the same corp on sisi, in a wh, practicing together with mixed teams/coms/fittings/mods
If you want to provide some evidence of THAT correspondence, i'll change my tune Testing against each other pretty much implies we do it in the same place. being in the same corp - is purely technical moment (like shared CEO of executor corp between trusted persons, because you can't have multiple characters fulfilling this role), it doesn't change anything regarding being entity or not. As you may know, we did it for corporate hangar access. Sreegs says it is a difference which matters, i see you're inclined to believe him. But formal reasoning leads to few conclusions: 1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics 2) He doesn't care so much about what's shown in tournament, he wants to waste participants efforts on something which is largely behind the scenes - and only then he will call it fair Or, as i previously voiced my opinion - he published opinion of the part of AT collective which is bitter because of AT IX finals.
You are now changing the criterion of what you are arguing, just pointing that out, but its fine.
There is a HUGE thick line between sparring with people and combining together, as a united entity. I simply cannot believe you cannot see the difference. Furthermore, the items you list are evidence of a unified team, not of simplifying things. Notice all of the we's in every thread. You guys are together, as one, doing the exact same thing, and getting punished for it, together, like a team.
Kadesh Priestess wrote:Don't belittle significance of lack of communication. It was primary reason of recent events resulting in hydra ban.
And please stop justifying that CCP are humans too and can make mistakes from time to time. Making mistake isn't a problem, handling it - is.
I am not belittling it, but it is not your point. This thread isn't a "call for CCP to answer their emails" its a call for you to get an exception to breaking the rules when you were only attempting to bend them.
To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
Merdaneth
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:10:00 -
[235] - Quote
"We are testing in a wormhole because we don't want anyone else to get as much as the smallest glimpse of our setups and tactics, we are very secretive."
"Except of course for one other team who is allowed complete access to all of our setups and tactics and from which we have no secrets at all."
"Oh: the other team is completely independent from us of course."
It is not rocket science: any two (or more) teams who have no secrets from each other, but try to keep as much secrets as possible from other teams are basically one team with just a different alliance label.
It is also not rocket science that CCP would be likely to act if they noticed this behaviour after the fiasco of a finale last year. |
Vily
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:12:00 -
[236] - Quote
During the pre-entry stage, Goonswarm had a group that wanted to run a second team from within the alliance (WiDot) they had the means, the ability and the history to do so.
We asked them not to enter because the knew rules were very clear on what the consequences could be if we did so. As such we entered only one team.
When you play with fire, it is only yourself you can blame when you get bruned |
Beledia Ilphukiir
Proffessional Experts Group
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:12:00 -
[237] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:Karl Planck wrote:Again, for like the tenth time, you got clearence for only a portion of what you were doing. You did not mention that you were in the same corp on sisi, in a wh, practicing together with mixed teams/coms/fittings/mods
If you want to provide some evidence of THAT correspondence, i'll change my tune Testing against each other pretty much implies we do it in the same place. being in the same corp - is purely technical moment (like shared CEO of executor corp between trusted persons, because you can't have multiple characters fulfilling this role), it doesn't change anything regarding being entity or not. As you may know, we did it for corporate hangar access. Sreegs says it is a difference which matters, i see you're inclined to believe him. But formal reasoning leads to few conclusions: 1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics 2) He doesn't care so much about what's shown in tournament, he wants to waste participants efforts on something which is largely behind the scenes - and only then he will call it fair Or, as i previously voiced my opinion - he published opinion of the part of AT collective which is bitter because of AT IX finals. Karl Planck wrote:While it is unfortunate there was a lack of communication, you were completely in the wrong for going ahead like you had a green light. And you are certainly not boo-hoo'ing CCP because of lack of email clarity (calling for a reformat of how CCP delegates information), you are trying to get a reverse decision when you should have known (and obviously did know) how you were operating could get you disqualified. Don't belittle significance of lack of communication. It was primary reason of recent events resulting in hydra ban. And please stop justifying that CCP are humans too and can make mistakes from time to time. Making mistake isn't a problem, handling it - is.
They tried to old and failed method of getting a GM "permission" by intentionally leaving out relevant points from their petition in an effort to secure a positive outcome to that petition from their perspective. They then proceeded with the obviously dubious activity and when caught, try to wave around their worthless petition ruling as a justification for their actions.
Nothing in their actions says to me they had a genuine intention of try to sort things out and play by the rules. Everything points out to trying to get around the intention of the rule, but still have some technical point to fall back on, if they can't get away with what they are doing. They intended to cheat, but thought the backup plan would allow them to continue in the tournament normal in the case CCP didn't agree with them. They were confident it would work, since they have a very high opinion about their own importance to the game. It didn't work.
CCP certainly could have used soft gloves and just stopped what they were planning by a warning them, but they also had justification to just ban them outright. I'm guessing CCP took their efforts to get around the rules as a giant FU and went: "F me? Oh no, no, no! FU!". Since CCP is actually the only party with the ultimate power concerning everything EVE related, it was a bad move to try to **** in their face and tell them it's raining. |
Merdaneth
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:14:00 -
[238] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote: 1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics
I'm sure there were many more sparring partners available that would have gladly joined your WH corp to easy the burden of their logistics. I guess you didn't want them?
If your are very picky about your sparring partners, but do share almost everything with those selected sparring partners, you should really think again about your definitions of sparring partners and competitors.
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penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
91
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:20:00 -
[239] - Quote
on the plus side, Garmon now can dedicate more time to losing Adrestias to brick squad |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:21:00 -
[240] - Quote
Karl Planck wrote:Kadesh Priestess wrote:Karl Planck wrote:Again, for like the tenth time, you got clearence for only a portion of what you were doing. You did not mention that you were in the same corp on sisi, in a wh, practicing together with mixed teams/coms/fittings/mods
If you want to provide some evidence of THAT correspondence, i'll change my tune Testing against each other pretty much implies we do it in the same place. being in the same corp - is purely technical moment (like shared CEO of executor corp between trusted persons, because you can't have multiple characters fulfilling this role), it doesn't change anything regarding being entity or not. As you may know, we did it for corporate hangar access. Sreegs says it is a difference which matters, i see you're inclined to believe him. But formal reasoning leads to few conclusions: 1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics 2) He doesn't care so much about what's shown in tournament, he wants to waste participants efforts on something which is largely behind the scenes - and only then he will call it fair Or, as i previously voiced my opinion - he published opinion of the part of AT collective which is bitter because of AT IX finals. You are now changing the criterion of what you are arguing, just pointing that out, but its fine. There is a HUGE thick line between sparring with people and combining together, as a united entity. I simply cannot believe you cannot see the difference. Furthermore, the items you list are evidence of a unified team, not of simplifying things. Notice all of the we's in every thread. You guys are together, as one, doing the exact same thing, and getting punished for it, together, like a team.
The line is blurry because the most troublesome forms of collusion are the hardest ones to prove. People have cited the importance of theory crafting and setups, but CCP cannot monitor private out of game emails or voice chats. Two alliances could be sitting in a private server somewhere talking up a storm and CCP would never know. Also, given that sparring is allowed, someone will see the killmails somewhere. Fittings and tech will be released simply through the very action of sparring. Presumably an Alliance that spars more is more prepared. Larger Alliance have more members and deeper wallets to do this internally. It is not unreasonable for smaller alliances to seek out external sparring partners.
What does joining together on a test server prove? Nothing. We already knew they had a close working relationship and we also knew that we could not black out their out of game communications. It was admitted earlier that Goons and Test were sparring against each other. Do we have any doubts that if they face each other they will both fight as hard as they can?
CCP wanted an excuse to punish Hydra/Outbreak so they created a pretext to revenge themselves. |
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