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The Restriction that will be placed on Sell orders

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:12:00 - [61] First off I'd like to say that I really like these changes, I give much more meaning to trade skills, lets people specialize in the market, and can help prevent market abuse. This might be more difficult than the solution needs to be, but how about having a skill that lets people place unlimited orders at one station per level of the skill? Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:12:00 - [62] First off I'd like to say that I really like these changes, I give much more meaning to trade skills, lets people specialize in the market, and can help prevent market abuse. This might be more difficult than the solution needs to be, but how about having a skill that lets people place unlimited orders at one station per level of the skill? Kaladryn
Al Thorr	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:18:00 - [63] ok so forgive me from sounding stupid but does this limitation to the makret actually include escrow ? - cos if not escrow is gonna be even more flooded than it already is . Regards Al Thorr I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape
Al Thorr	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:18:00 - [64] ok so forgive me from sounding stupid but does this limitation to the makret actually include escrow ? - cos if not escrow is gonna be even more flooded than it already is . Regards Al Thorr I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:39:00 - [65] Originally by: Maya Rkell I don't want to have to buy another account PURELY to sell things on the market, but that seems to be where you're trying to push me. This is a MAJOR nerf for the market - something which I feel is being hidden behind a "content update". No it's not. It's a "major nerf" on those that want to play two professions on one character while only training for one of them. This adds to the menu of possible specializations in EVE, which is in simple words excellent. If you want to be an all-out fighter then train 100% combat skills, if you want to be a fighter that makes some ISK on the side by playing the market, then train for both, it's up to you whether it's worth it. You don't see people moan about them "needing" a second account to mine themselves some cash a little now and then, do you? What you are saying is basically the same as if some other fighter wanted to be able to refine and mine at maximum efficiency without spending any training time or effort to get there.
Tatsue Nuko	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:39:00 - [66] Originally by: Maya Rkell I don't want to have to buy another account PURELY to sell things on the market, but that seems to be where you're trying to push me. This is a MAJOR nerf for the market - something which I feel is being hidden behind a "content update". No it's not. It's a "major nerf" on those that want to play two professions on one character while only training for one of them. This adds to the menu of possible specializations in EVE, which is in simple words excellent. If you want to be an all-out fighter then train 100% combat skills, if you want to be a fighter that makes some ISK on the side by playing the market, then train for both, it's up to you whether it's worth it. You don't see people moan about them "needing" a second account to mine themselves some cash a little now and then, do you? What you are saying is basically the same as if some other fighter wanted to be able to refine and mine at maximum efficiency without spending any training time or effort to get there.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:53:00 - [67] Originally by: arjun oveur same as aelita i doubt your numbers. there are loads of people like him. for instance me and like him i also have competitors in the same constellation. even peole who do the job on region level. i buy all basic and tech 1 modules in 2 constellations. thats about 500 buyorders. none of them faked. i have regular price wars with competitors. the one with the highest price wins. profit margin goes down. but no probblem thats my choice. any other reason for this change than trying to force people into second acounts? the fees will cut down even theese margins further. i spend considerable time with collection of the modules from 120 stations in 16 systems but trader is no profession which can fill up 24/7. u place order, and wait. thats it. i have another character which does more interesting stuff. he needs all the skilltime he can get. why should i take months of skilltime friom the other char if i dont get anything in return. dont think the profits i make are worth that sacrifice. and im not going to get any ability im not having now. Think that doubting the numbers of the guy that's got access to the database that actually holds those orders is a bit, questionable. And the rest of your posts is actually a good reason to make this change. Cause you're right at the moment your alt without any skills whatsoever is as good at working the market as any other. Just need the isk. If you wanna work the market under the new system, you miss out on battleship lvl 5, ( or something to that extent ) it ain't like you can't do anything at all besides trading anymore. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:53:00 - [68] Originally by: arjun oveur same as aelita i doubt your numbers. there are loads of people like him. for instance me and like him i also have competitors in the same constellation. even peole who do the job on region level. i buy all basic and tech 1 modules in 2 constellations. thats about 500 buyorders. none of them faked. i have regular price wars with competitors. the one with the highest price wins. profit margin goes down. but no probblem thats my choice. any other reason for this change than trying to force people into second acounts? the fees will cut down even theese margins further. i spend considerable time with collection of the modules from 120 stations in 16 systems but trader is no profession which can fill up 24/7. u place order, and wait. thats it. i have another character which does more interesting stuff. he needs all the skilltime he can get. why should i take months of skilltime friom the other char if i dont get anything in return. dont think the profits i make are worth that sacrifice. and im not going to get any ability im not having now. Think that doubting the numbers of the guy that's got access to the database that actually holds those orders is a bit, questionable. And the rest of your posts is actually a good reason to make this change. Cause you're right at the moment your alt without any skills whatsoever is as good at working the market as any other. Just need the isk. If you wanna work the market under the new system, you miss out on battleship lvl 5, ( or something to that extent ) it ain't like you can't do anything at all besides trading anymore. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Daka DreamStalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 03:36:00 - [69] I don't see any relevance in the new trading skills. I see a connection in training skills for production, gunnery, engeneering etc. as in real life. But I don't see any relevance - at all - in training up skills for selling stuff Member of the Freelancing Corp. /// EVE Signature & Banner Design Your Civilian Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Fugitive, wrecking for 2 damage.
Daka DreamStalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 03:36:00 - [70] I don't see any relevance in the new trading skills. I see a connection in training skills for production, gunnery, engeneering etc. as in real life. But I don't see any relevance - at all - in training up skills for selling stuff Member of the Freelancing Corp. /// EVE Signature & Banner Design Your Civilian Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Fugitive, wrecking for 2 damage.

kurg	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:08:00 - [71] Originally by: Oveur Not wanting to ruin this discussion since I'm interested in the opinions - so I won't bother with mine - I'm gonna add some facts so we more to base the discussion on: - 22 people have more active market orders than the upcoming skill maximum - 67 people have more than 100 active market orders AND less than the upcoming skill maximum - Without the Trade skill you can have 5 active orders - About 4800 have less than 100, where of only 124 people have more than 50 active marker orders. The skills were based on these facts. To add to this, we can easily add "Megawholesale" and "Mega-Megawholesale" that increase the order cap even faster. I dont get this if you sum up your numbers you end at a total player number less than 5000 which is clearly wrong? even the paranoid has real enemies...
kurg	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:08:00 - [72] Originally by: Oveur Not wanting to ruin this discussion since I'm interested in the opinions - so I won't bother with mine - I'm gonna add some facts so we more to base the discussion on: - 22 people have more active market orders than the upcoming skill maximum - 67 people have more than 100 active market orders AND less than the upcoming skill maximum - Without the Trade skill you can have 5 active orders - About 4800 have less than 100, where of only 124 people have more than 50 active marker orders. The skills were based on these facts. To add to this, we can easily add "Megawholesale" and "Mega-Megawholesale" that increase the order cap even faster. I dont get this if you sum up your numbers you end at a total player number less than 5000 which is clearly wrong? even the paranoid has real enemies...
kurg	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:10:00 - [73] Originally by: S'Daria A couple of technical questions that seem to be answered: 5. When Shiva is released, what happens if you exceed your order maximum? The 'order police' confiscates the most profitable orders on site... even the paranoid has real enemies...
kurg	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:10:00 - [74] Originally by: S'Daria A couple of technical questions that seem to be answered: 5. When Shiva is released, what happens if you exceed your order maximum? The 'order police' confiscates the most profitable orders on site... even the paranoid has real enemies...
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:18:00 - [75] Originally by: kurg I dont get this if you sum up your numbers you end at a total player number less than 5000 which is clearly wrong? Nowhere did he specify he was discussing the total player number. He was highlighting some interesting statistics. The other, what, 45,000 accounts have none or very few market orders
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:18:00 - [76] Originally by: kurg I dont get this if you sum up your numbers you end at a total player number less than 5000 which is clearly wrong? Nowhere did he specify he was discussing the total player number. He was highlighting some interesting statistics. The other, what, 45,000 accounts have none or very few market orders
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:24:00 - [77] Edited by: Harry Voyager on 04/10/2004 08:29:04 Originally by: Zubenelgenubi [...] Specialization is the future of EVE. Originally by: Grim Vandal [...] Very good change since more specialization is the way to go. Specialization is going to be the death of Eve. Do you honestly think people are going to stick around after having three or four months of pure specialist training nerfed into uselessness, especially when they are suddenly looking at having to train for another three to four months, just to be able to fly the current flavor of the month? People are generalists because specialists can't adapt fast enough in this game. People will remain generalists until CCP stops pushing their "Adapt or Die" changes. Who here wants Minmatar Battleships 5? Harry Voyager
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:24:00 - [78] Edited by: Harry Voyager on 04/10/2004 08:29:04 Originally by: Zubenelgenubi [...] Specialization is the future of EVE. Originally by: Grim Vandal [...] Very good change since more specialization is the way to go. Specialization is going to be the death of Eve. Do you honestly think people are going to stick around after having three or four months of pure specialist training nerfed into uselessness, especially when they are suddenly looking at having to train for another three to four months, just to be able to fly the current flavor of the month? People are generalists because specialists can't adapt fast enough in this game. People will remain generalists until CCP stops pushing their "Adapt or Die" changes. Who here wants Minmatar Battleships 5? Harry Voyager
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:45:00 - [79] Im going with Driodster and Aelita here. These trade skills will put a serious crimp in the aggregator traders. Aggregators need to be able to place many speculative buy orders for many items. There seems to be a relativly small set of players who have chosen this role but they have a huge impact on the game. Their buy orders are the only reason that regular players have a market for their unnamed loot and trade good mission rewards. And buy orders on (loot) modules and trade goods DO NOT FILL UP FAST. It takes literally months for buy orders on trade goods to fill up from mission runners. Months in which (1) Shiva forces aggregator pilots to actually front a significant fraction of their wealth, and (2) pay a order tax. There might be just 20 off of these pilots in the game, BUT the orders they place allow every other pilot to make a ecent profit off their rat loot and mission trade good rewards out in the sticks.
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:45:00 - [80] Im going with Driodster and Aelita here. These trade skills will put a serious crimp in the aggregator traders. Aggregators need to be able to place many speculative buy orders for many items. There seems to be a relativly small set of players who have chosen this role but they have a huge impact on the game. Their buy orders are the only reason that regular players have a market for their unnamed loot and trade good mission rewards. And buy orders on (loot) modules and trade goods DO NOT FILL UP FAST. It takes literally months for buy orders on trade goods to fill up from mission runners. Months in which (1) Shiva forces aggregator pilots to actually front a significant fraction of their wealth, and (2) pay a order tax. There might be just 20 off of these pilots in the game, BUT the orders they place allow every other pilot to make a ecent profit off their rat loot and mission trade good rewards out in the sticks.

Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:49:00 - [81] Specialization is a side effect of people wanting more individuality in the game, something that will always be a good thing for the spirit of the game. It is also a natural occurance of mmog world growth, its happening even if the devs don't make changes, but they know that is what we want, so they facilitate it further. Most people will train up their basic trade skills to 3 or 4 (costing very little training time) and then never once have to worry about their buy or sell orders, they will have more than enough. They will continue to place little orders here and there at will, never coming close to the limit, and never caring much about it. They will feel some satifaction however in knowing that they have taken the time to train an area so that they don't have to worry about it. Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:49:00 - [82] Specialization is a side effect of people wanting more individuality in the game, something that will always be a good thing for the spirit of the game. It is also a natural occurance of mmog world growth, its happening even if the devs don't make changes, but they know that is what we want, so they facilitate it further. Most people will train up their basic trade skills to 3 or 4 (costing very little training time) and then never once have to worry about their buy or sell orders, they will have more than enough. They will continue to place little orders here and there at will, never coming close to the limit, and never caring much about it. They will feel some satifaction however in knowing that they have taken the time to train an area so that they don't have to worry about it. Kaladryn
Nyphur	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:51:00 - [83] Originally by: Oveur Not wanting to ruin this discussion since I'm interested in the opinions - so I won't bother with mine - I'm gonna add some facts so we more to base the discussion on: - 22 people have more active market orders than the upcoming skill maximum - 67 people have more than 100 active market orders AND less than the upcoming skill maximum I say it's a good move. It will force corporations to expand and have more than one member buying and selling things. The limit is per player, not per corporation, so this should be no problem for a large corporation. It encourages the team aspect of eve in just the right way without interfering too much with game mechanics. It does somewhat nerf solo play, which I think is a good thing since the main attraction to eve is the player and community aspect. Players are going to HAVE to make freinds and band together to work effectively in gneeral once Shiva comes out and I like it. :)
Nyphur	Posted - 2004.10.04 08:51:00 - [84] Originally by: Oveur Not wanting to ruin this discussion since I'm interested in the opinions - so I won't bother with mine - I'm gonna add some facts so we more to base the discussion on: - 22 people have more active market orders than the upcoming skill maximum - 67 people have more than 100 active market orders AND less than the upcoming skill maximum I say it's a good move. It will force corporations to expand and have more than one member buying and selling things. The limit is per player, not per corporation, so this should be no problem for a large corporation. It encourages the team aspect of eve in just the right way without interfering too much with game mechanics. It does somewhat nerf solo play, which I think is a good thing since the main attraction to eve is the player and community aspect. Players are going to HAVE to make freinds and band together to work effectively in gneeral once Shiva comes out and I like it. :)
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:16:00 - [85] If you have bunches of loot to sell, it'll probably be named loot which you can't sell on the market anyway. So its not going to effect the 'named' loot sellers.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:16:00 - [86] If you have bunches of loot to sell, it'll probably be named loot which you can't sell on the market anyway. So its not going to effect the 'named' loot sellers.
Cerryh	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:02:00 - [87] Edited by: Cerryh on 04/10/2004 10:10:58 I'd just like to vote for the implementation of Mega-Wholesale and Ultra-Wholesale. Especially since I'm another one of the affected 22... It won't encourage scamming again like in the current system since you still need a month of training just to get to that level, but it will help keeping the bulk-seller and loot-aggregator-professions alive, which is in my opinion a good thing(tm)
Cerryh	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:02:00 - [88] Edited by: Cerryh on 04/10/2004 10:10:58 I'd just like to vote for the implementation of Mega-Wholesale and Ultra-Wholesale. Especially since I'm another one of the affected 22... It won't encourage scamming again like in the current system since you still need a month of training just to get to that level, but it will help keeping the bulk-seller and loot-aggregator-professions alive, which is in my opinion a good thing(tm)
Helison	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:30:00 - [89] I like the new market skills except the new restriction on the number of the market orders. This would be just a major nerf of the market! Please don¦t make this!
Helison	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:30:00 - [90] I like the new market skills except the new restriction on the number of the market orders. This would be just a major nerf of the market! Please don¦t make this!



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