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The Restriction that will be placed on Sell orders

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Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:30:00 - [91] Edited by: Severe McCald on 04/10/2004 10:32:39 Originally by: DeFood There might be just 20 off of these pilots in the game, BUT the orders they place allow every other pilot to make a decent profit off their rat loot and mission trade good rewards out in the sticks. Got to agree with this point. I am NOT one of these people (so not asking for something for myself), but without them this game will be seriously gimped. Please GM's/devs, at least give "grandfather" rights to existing aggregators. Maybe a headstart gift of the basic two skills for those guys who have 150 plus region wide buy orders (all genuine, with no scams), serving the community as they are. I hate the way this is being implemented (you should not nerf existing abilities, but give specialisation skills which add to game content). There is no reason for introducing these skills as they are. You could introduce distance buying/selling as a skill to change orders from where you are, rather than having to travel to the station where the order was set up. And whatever happened to "brokers"? You could have introduced these guys as requiring skills (they could have reacted dynamically to the market, rather than always selling/buying at the original set price). But you have chosen the easy route to create a time sink, something we need to get back to playing the game as we did from day one. Unimaginative. Lazy. Stupid. I wont quit over this (not a trader), but some will. Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:30:00 - [92] Edited by: Severe McCald on 04/10/2004 10:32:39 Originally by: DeFood There might be just 20 off of these pilots in the game, BUT the orders they place allow every other pilot to make a decent profit off their rat loot and mission trade good rewards out in the sticks. Got to agree with this point. I am NOT one of these people (so not asking for something for myself), but without them this game will be seriously gimped. Please GM's/devs, at least give "grandfather" rights to existing aggregators. Maybe a headstart gift of the basic two skills for those guys who have 150 plus region wide buy orders (all genuine, with no scams), serving the community as they are. I hate the way this is being implemented (you should not nerf existing abilities, but give specialisation skills which add to game content). There is no reason for introducing these skills as they are. You could introduce distance buying/selling as a skill to change orders from where you are, rather than having to travel to the station where the order was set up. And whatever happened to "brokers"? You could have introduced these guys as requiring skills (they could have reacted dynamically to the market, rather than always selling/buying at the original set price). But you have chosen the easy route to create a time sink, something we need to get back to playing the game as we did from day one. Unimaginative. Lazy. Stupid. I wont quit over this (not a trader), but some will. Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:34:00 - [93] Originally by: Helison I like the new market skills except the new restriction on the number of the market orders. This would be just a major nerf of the market! Please don¦t make this! Are you a half-wit? The new skills only exist to give you the ability to increase the number of market orders. If they don't nerf the market order situation these skills wont do anything. Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
Severe McCald	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:34:00 - [94] Originally by: Helison I like the new market skills except the new restriction on the number of the market orders. This would be just a major nerf of the market! Please don¦t make this! Are you a half-wit? The new skills only exist to give you the ability to increase the number of market orders. If they don't nerf the market order situation these skills wont do anything. Severe And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land.
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:44:00 - [95] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 04/10/2004 10:47:32 I Really like that skill, if your profession isn't trading you'll be able to sell 5 Items at a time....refering to oveurs Post... If your like to sell more thing you have to specialize your char..this is good because everyone has to specialise his char....regardless of figher, miner ...etc. However, you always can sell things instantly....so its not an big deal for people who only wanna sell single items or batches of minerals... Kerryh.....thats cool, you have have plenty of time until the marked system will change... Additional to that, refering to Oveur, just check the numbers of people who really uses the amount of items to sell....there is not much need to sell more items than 170..at least till now... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:44:00 - [96] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 04/10/2004 10:47:32 I Really like that skill, if your profession isn't trading you'll be able to sell 5 Items at a time....refering to oveurs Post... If your like to sell more thing you have to specialize your char..this is good because everyone has to specialise his char....regardless of figher, miner ...etc. However, you always can sell things instantly....so its not an big deal for people who only wanna sell single items or batches of minerals... Kerryh.....thats cool, you have have plenty of time until the marked system will change... Additional to that, refering to Oveur, just check the numbers of people who really uses the amount of items to sell....there is not much need to sell more items than 170..at least till now... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:06:00 - [97] Question: How is the black market going to function? At least ive been lead to belive (with a real lack of any official confirmation in the Shive feature notes) that named modules will be traded on a "blackmarket". This means that the inability to trade named loot might go away post Shiva, meaning that the loot aggregators will potentially be needing 4X their current number of buy orders.
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:06:00 - [98] Question: How is the black market going to function? At least ive been lead to belive (with a real lack of any official confirmation in the Shive feature notes) that named modules will be traded on a "blackmarket". This means that the inability to trade named loot might go away post Shiva, meaning that the loot aggregators will potentially be needing 4X their current number of buy orders.
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:20:00 - [99] This change hurts: New players; Have alot of skills to train in short order, cant even wet feet in market now Small corps; Going to have trouble selling the large amount of t1 gear that is their bread and butter. will have far fewer ppl with spec in this. Traders; Will not be finding anything on market for cheap resell. neg sec people; Low sec empire will be devoid of merchandise. Was willing to pay 100k for a cap relay next to a 0.0 choke point system now i wont be able to find one at all. Will have to use alts for purchasing everything now. Consumers in general will have a harder time buying. This is very bad for all consumers which means pretty much everyone in eve. Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.
Torvus Jay	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:20:00 - [100] This change hurts: New players; Have alot of skills to train in short order, cant even wet feet in market now Small corps; Going to have trouble selling the large amount of t1 gear that is their bread and butter. will have far fewer ppl with spec in this. Traders; Will not be finding anything on market for cheap resell. neg sec people; Low sec empire will be devoid of merchandise. Was willing to pay 100k for a cap relay next to a 0.0 choke point system now i wont be able to find one at all. Will have to use alts for purchasing everything now. Consumers in general will have a harder time buying. This is very bad for all consumers which means pretty much everyone in eve. Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. ______________ Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye.

Crunschi	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:34:00 - [101] The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore...
Crunschi	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:34:00 - [102] The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore...
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:50:00 - [103] I don't see a problem with this. Specialisation will stop the retards from abusing the system (mostly). all the people complaining that they are super-hardcore traders and are worried about training for a month... peh. Don't you see that this training will be what allows you to be a super-hardcore trader, rather than one of the masses of market spammers? Can you not see that, once trained, specialisation will give you the advantage? These same issues were bought up with refinery specialisation. Complaining that you're not dedicated enough to your role in the game is not a good enough reason to stop the game advancing. I myself am a jack of all trades type character. I knew from the outset that this would not allow me to be the best at anything. Why is it that some people didn't realise this? .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:50:00 - [104] I don't see a problem with this. Specialisation will stop the retards from abusing the system (mostly). all the people complaining that they are super-hardcore traders and are worried about training for a month... peh. Don't you see that this training will be what allows you to be a super-hardcore trader, rather than one of the masses of market spammers? Can you not see that, once trained, specialisation will give you the advantage? These same issues were bought up with refinery specialisation. Complaining that you're not dedicated enough to your role in the game is not a good enough reason to stop the game advancing. I myself am a jack of all trades type character. I knew from the outset that this would not allow me to be the best at anything. Why is it that some people didn't realise this? .
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:55:00 - [105] I agree with Drunkenmaster.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 11:55:00 - [106] I agree with Drunkenmaster.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:11:00 - [107] Originally by: Torvus Jay This change hurts: New players; Have alot of skills to train in short order, cant even wet feet in market now A newbie can buy the Trade skill and learn it to 2 in less than an hour and be able to have 15 simultaneous orders. How much more 'wet' do you want? Originally by: Torvus Jay Small corps; Going to have trouble selling the large amount of t1 gear that is their bread and butter. will have far fewer ppl with spec in this. Small corps will adapt. They will have their "dedicated trader" whom be responsible for mass marketing. Originally by: Torvus Jay Traders; Will not be finding anything on market for cheap resell. Specialize your buy orders. Originally by: Torvus Jay neg sec people; Low sec empire will be devoid of merchandise. Was willing to pay 100k for a cap relay next to a 0.0 choke point system now i wont be able to find one at all. Will have to use alts for purchasing everything now. Sounds like a trader could take advantage of this business, taking the risk selling normal goods at inflated prices on the edge of empire space. Originally by: Torvus Jay Consumers in general will have a harder time buying. This is very bad for all consumers which means pretty much everyone in eve. People who want to sell will get Trade to like 4 in less than a day. They'll be plenty of orders, if anything more lagitament orders anyway. Originally by: Torvus Jay Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. Yep. The first few traders will make a huge amount of money. So maybe now they'll compete with miners on the amount of cash they can make. Hopefully soon we'll associate Trader with $$$. If a character is taking that much of their time to specialize in these new marketing skills then I would expect them to be good at it. Just as if someone specialized in mining, fighting, science or refining. What this does is help diversify people so we don't have everyone cookie-cutter. Live it, learn it, exploit it.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:11:00 - [108] Originally by: Torvus Jay This change hurts: New players; Have alot of skills to train in short order, cant even wet feet in market now A newbie can buy the Trade skill and learn it to 2 in less than an hour and be able to have 15 simultaneous orders. How much more 'wet' do you want? Originally by: Torvus Jay Small corps; Going to have trouble selling the large amount of t1 gear that is their bread and butter. will have far fewer ppl with spec in this. Small corps will adapt. They will have their "dedicated trader" whom be responsible for mass marketing. Originally by: Torvus Jay Traders; Will not be finding anything on market for cheap resell. Specialize your buy orders. Originally by: Torvus Jay neg sec people; Low sec empire will be devoid of merchandise. Was willing to pay 100k for a cap relay next to a 0.0 choke point system now i wont be able to find one at all. Will have to use alts for purchasing everything now. Sounds like a trader could take advantage of this business, taking the risk selling normal goods at inflated prices on the edge of empire space. Originally by: Torvus Jay Consumers in general will have a harder time buying. This is very bad for all consumers which means pretty much everyone in eve. People who want to sell will get Trade to like 4 in less than a day. They'll be plenty of orders, if anything more lagitament orders anyway. Originally by: Torvus Jay Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. Yep. The first few traders will make a huge amount of money. So maybe now they'll compete with miners on the amount of cash they can make. Hopefully soon we'll associate Trader with $$$. If a character is taking that much of their time to specialize in these new marketing skills then I would expect them to be good at it. Just as if someone specialized in mining, fighting, science or refining. What this does is help diversify people so we don't have everyone cookie-cutter. Live it, learn it, exploit it.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:18:00 - [109] Originally by: Crunschi The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore... So the guy buying junk loot less than what it you could get if you just recycle it is not good?
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:18:00 - [110] Originally by: Crunschi The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore... So the guy buying junk loot less than what it you could get if you just recycle it is not good?

MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:24:00 - [111] Originally by: drunkenmaster I don't see a problem with this. Specialisation will stop the retards from abusing the system (mostly). all the people complaining that they are super-hardcore traders and are worried about training for a month... peh. Don't you see that this training will be what allows you to be a super-hardcore trader, rather than one of the masses of market spammers? Can you not see that, once trained, specialisation will give you the advantage? These same issues were bought up with refinery specialisation. Complaining that you're not dedicated enough to your role in the game is not a good enough reason to stop the game advancing. I myself am a jack of all trades type character. I knew from the outset that this would not allow me to be the best at anything. Why is it that some people didn't realise this? You're so sexy drunken! I wholeheartedly agree The trade skills are cool. They will put some small limitations on trading, limitations the market needed since... ever. They will at least attempt to stop people from posting useless orders (read: scams) and that will reduce traffic in the market system which means more performance for everyone. There's only one question for me: What will happen to the current escrow system? Will it be made obsolete aswell? Can we trade meta items via the market interface now or what's the deal? Mai's Idealog
MaiLina KaTar	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:24:00 - [112] Originally by: drunkenmaster I don't see a problem with this. Specialisation will stop the retards from abusing the system (mostly). all the people complaining that they are super-hardcore traders and are worried about training for a month... peh. Don't you see that this training will be what allows you to be a super-hardcore trader, rather than one of the masses of market spammers? Can you not see that, once trained, specialisation will give you the advantage? These same issues were bought up with refinery specialisation. Complaining that you're not dedicated enough to your role in the game is not a good enough reason to stop the game advancing. I myself am a jack of all trades type character. I knew from the outset that this would not allow me to be the best at anything. Why is it that some people didn't realise this? You're so sexy drunken! I wholeheartedly agree The trade skills are cool. They will put some small limitations on trading, limitations the market needed since... ever. They will at least attempt to stop people from posting useless orders (read: scams) and that will reduce traffic in the market system which means more performance for everyone. There's only one question for me: What will happen to the current escrow system? Will it be made obsolete aswell? Can we trade meta items via the market interface now or what's the deal? Mai's Idealog
Crunschi	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:28:00 - [113] Originally by: S'Daria Originally by: Crunschi The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore... So the guy buying junk loot less than what it you could get if you just recycle it is not good? Sorry but I don't understand what you are saying. No Offense I seriously do not understand... Im saying that the junk or loot buisness works because of the huge quantity these traders handle. With only 170 orders they won't be able to buy these vast amounts of modules and so it won't be worth the effort in the first place. It would be to much hauling for not enough profit
Crunschi	Posted - 2004.10.04 12:28:00 - [114] Originally by: S'Daria Originally by: Crunschi The Problem of the ppl how are buying junk (loot) in vast amounts in different regions is that the possible 170 aktive orders isn't anywhere near what they need. It wouldn't be worth the effort anymore... So the guy buying junk loot less than what it you could get if you just recycle it is not good? Sorry but I don't understand what you are saying. No Offense I seriously do not understand... Im saying that the junk or loot buisness works because of the huge quantity these traders handle. With only 170 orders they won't be able to buy these vast amounts of modules and so it won't be worth the effort in the first place. It would be to much hauling for not enough profit
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 13:47:00 - [115] Originally by: Torvus Jay Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. No - it hurts the 22 players - as they already exceed what will be possible with the skills. It is 67 players with 100 or more buy orders
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 13:47:00 - [116] Originally by: Torvus Jay Who it helps. The 22 people who will train all the way and make rediculous profit cause instead of fighting off their competetors themselves CCP just killed all the competition for them. No - it hurts the 22 players - as they already exceed what will be possible with the skills. It is 67 players with 100 or more buy orders
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.04 14:37:00 - [117] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko You don't see people moan about them "needing" a second account to mine themselves some cash a little now and then, do you? What you are saying is basically the same as if some other fighter wanted to be able to refine and mine at maximum efficiency without spending any training time or effort to get there. And no, you NEED several accounts if you're a serious miner. No-one moans because that's an established FACT. I disagree adding this for OTHER professions is a good idea! I restate, NERF in the form of an "UPDATE" "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.04 14:37:00 - [118] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko You don't see people moan about them "needing" a second account to mine themselves some cash a little now and then, do you? What you are saying is basically the same as if some other fighter wanted to be able to refine and mine at maximum efficiency without spending any training time or effort to get there. And no, you NEED several accounts if you're a serious miner. No-one moans because that's an established FACT. I disagree adding this for OTHER professions is a good idea! I restate, NERF in the form of an "UPDATE" "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 14:51:00 - [119] You need a 2nd account to mine? It would make things easier, but still, its not necessary
DeFood	Posted - 2004.10.04 14:51:00 - [120] You need a 2nd account to mine? It would make things easier, but still, its not necessary



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