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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:09:00 - [301] I make a living on speculation, I guess I have to shoot stuff for a living now. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:09:00 - [302] I make a living on speculation, I guess I have to shoot stuff for a living now. Convert Stations
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:11:00 - [303] how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. My lines of work have been dragged down to nothing several times by in-game changes. You just adapt and move on. Or admit defeat and leave. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:11:00 - [304] how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. My lines of work have been dragged down to nothing several times by in-game changes. You just adapt and move on. Or admit defeat and leave. .
Delath	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:57:00 - [305] Originally by: drunkenmaster how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. I think his point among others was (if it was not I'm making it now): though you're entirely correct that the changes won't affect 'your' region (on the buyorderside at least - perhaps there are sellers with many orders so it will be harder to buy stuff) they will effect a number of other regions for the worse since they appearantly do have such people that are lacking in your sector and they will give people less pay for their items or quit that business entirely. So it will hurt those sectors if not yours. Furthermore his point was that as it is today the possibility exists that someone discovers your region and starts buying your loot for more money then you're currently getting. That possibility will diminish or possibly disappear entirely with the changes. So when we sum the situation up for all players the sum will be negative - we will be worse off then before the changes. That doesn't prohibit that some like you will be mostly unaffected and possibly some will even gain on it (say a producer who suddenly finds himself alone in his sector and can hike prices enough to cover the loss from the items he can no longer sell). But that will be outweighed by the loss most people will get in lower prices to sell their stuff for and higher prices to pay when they want to buy stuff, traders not being able to aggregate stuff as efficiently as before and producers not being able to fully cover the losses they incur from selling fewer items by hiking prices. How much worse off we , as a collective, will be is impossible to tell without access to the DB but unless they're introducing some unknown other changes we will be worse off (which is an entirely different thing then saying the market will die - of course it won't - it will just be in worse shape then before). Now I fully understand that they make changes and one has to adapt but normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. It can't really be asked of us to be happy about a change when they don't give us any reasons to be so - so it would be bloody nice if they told us the reasons so we can weigh pros vs cons and have a real discussion. Because currently we're just discussing how bad the cons are. ------------------------- "Real Men Hull Tank" CCP Hammer
Delath	Posted - 2004.10.14 15:57:00 - [306] Originally by: drunkenmaster how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. I think his point among others was (if it was not I'm making it now): though you're entirely correct that the changes won't affect 'your' region (on the buyorderside at least - perhaps there are sellers with many orders so it will be harder to buy stuff) they will effect a number of other regions for the worse since they appearantly do have such people that are lacking in your sector and they will give people less pay for their items or quit that business entirely. So it will hurt those sectors if not yours. Furthermore his point was that as it is today the possibility exists that someone discovers your region and starts buying your loot for more money then you're currently getting. That possibility will diminish or possibly disappear entirely with the changes. So when we sum the situation up for all players the sum will be negative - we will be worse off then before the changes. That doesn't prohibit that some like you will be mostly unaffected and possibly some will even gain on it (say a producer who suddenly finds himself alone in his sector and can hike prices enough to cover the loss from the items he can no longer sell). But that will be outweighed by the loss most people will get in lower prices to sell their stuff for and higher prices to pay when they want to buy stuff, traders not being able to aggregate stuff as efficiently as before and producers not being able to fully cover the losses they incur from selling fewer items by hiking prices. How much worse off we , as a collective, will be is impossible to tell without access to the DB but unless they're introducing some unknown other changes we will be worse off (which is an entirely different thing then saying the market will die - of course it won't - it will just be in worse shape then before). Now I fully understand that they make changes and one has to adapt but normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. It can't really be asked of us to be happy about a change when they don't give us any reasons to be so - so it would be bloody nice if they told us the reasons so we can weigh pros vs cons and have a real discussion. Because currently we're just discussing how bad the cons are. ------------------------- "Real Men Hull Tank" CCP Hammer
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:22:00 - [307] Folks I will say you better have your order limit based on your skills before shiva. I am on the test server and had to fly to all the regions to get my orders under the limit. Couple key things: There is going to be too many items on the market to have all the desired goods for sell/buy orders. You will have named mods on the market. Whats the word "Specialize". I think everything will be real soo orders for 1isk buys will be GONE. People will have more than just the top order to pick from. So qty will come to play. I need 2mill trit the low price is 1.75 but qty is 500k at station 1 the next order is 2.1 at 2million I can buy the 2million at station 1. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:22:00 - [308] Folks I will say you better have your order limit based on your skills before shiva. I am on the test server and had to fly to all the regions to get my orders under the limit. Couple key things: There is going to be too many items on the market to have all the desired goods for sell/buy orders. You will have named mods on the market. Whats the word "Specialize". I think everything will be real soo orders for 1isk buys will be GONE. People will have more than just the top order to pick from. So qty will come to play. I need 2mill trit the low price is 1.75 but qty is 500k at station 1 the next order is 2.1 at 2million I can buy the 2million at station 1. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Kralor Darkilon	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:43:00 - [309] Originally by: Athule Snanm Edited by: Athule Snanm on 03/10/2004 13:01:36 Originally by: Shevar How many orders can one do without skills? If that is below 50 ill be seriously annoyed.... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs You should be thankful that you've got plenty of time to train up. And the base level needs to be a lot less than 50 or they may as well not bother. There are a number of professions in EVE that can be perfectly, not just well, filled by completely AFK alts with minimal or restricted skills. Here's hoping that trading gets taken off that list with the new skills in Shiva. Now if only they'd do the same with science... Edit: and scoring good drugs really isn't that much of a problem erm, I mean Frankly, with all the shenanigans people with "alts" commit, I think it should be one character per account. You want another character? Pay for one...but even then, I guess that wouldn't be enough.
Kralor Darkilon	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:43:00 - [310] Originally by: Athule Snanm Edited by: Athule Snanm on 03/10/2004 13:01:36 Originally by: Shevar How many orders can one do without skills? If that is below 50 ill be seriously annoyed.... -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs You should be thankful that you've got plenty of time to train up. And the base level needs to be a lot less than 50 or they may as well not bother. There are a number of professions in EVE that can be perfectly, not just well, filled by completely AFK alts with minimal or restricted skills. Here's hoping that trading gets taken off that list with the new skills in Shiva. Now if only they'd do the same with science... Edit: and scoring good drugs really isn't that much of a problem erm, I mean Frankly, with all the shenanigans people with "alts" commit, I think it should be one character per account. You want another character? Pay for one...but even then, I guess that wouldn't be enough.

drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:47:00 - [311] Originally by: Delath Originally by: drunkenmaster how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. I think his point among others was (if it was not I'm making it now): though you're entirely correct that the changes won't affect 'your' region (on the buyorderside at least - perhaps there are sellers with many orders so it will be harder to buy stuff) they will effect a number of other regions for the worse since they appearantly do have such people that are lacking in your sector and they will give people less pay for their items or quit that business entirely. So it will hurt those sectors if not yours. Furthermore his point was that as it is today the possibility exists that someone discovers your region and starts buying your loot for more money then you're currently getting. That possibility will diminish or possibly disappear entirely with the changes. So when we sum the situation up for all players the sum will be negative - we will be worse off then before the changes. That doesn't prohibit that some like you will be mostly unaffected and possibly some will even gain on it (say a producer who suddenly finds himself alone in his sector and can hike prices enough to cover the loss from the items he can no longer sell). But that will be outweighed by the loss most people will get in lower prices to sell their stuff for and higher prices to pay when they want to buy stuff, traders not being able to aggregate stuff as efficiently as before and producers not being able to fully cover the losses they incur from selling fewer items by hiking prices. How much worse off we , as a collective, will be is impossible to tell without access to the DB but unless they're introducing some unknown other changes we will be worse off (which is an entirely different thing then saying the market will die - of course it won't - it will just be in worse shape then before). Now I fully understand that they make changes and one has to adapt but normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. It can't really be asked of us to be happy about a change when they don't give us any reasons to be so - so it would be bloody nice if they told us the reasons so we can weigh pros vs cons and have a real discussion. Because currently we're just discussing how bad the cons are. I see both his and your point. That's not what I'm arguing about, why that other guy quoted me, I really couldn't say. My point is that people saying that the 'lack of noobloot aggregators is going to kill the market', is just a sensationalising tactic, and will not sway anyone. I'm not denying what you guys are saying. And I'm impressed that some of you have found a niche like you have. It's not something I would have considered myself. Just that there are people in the thread crying 'armageddon' when that's not the case. it weakens the argument. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 16:47:00 - [312] Originally by: Delath Originally by: drunkenmaster how does what you quoted have any relation to what you wrote? Other than to tell me how little you care, ofc. I was referring to the people who are saying the market is going to die because people won't be able to put in buy orders for 2-300 different types of low value NPC loot. I think his point among others was (if it was not I'm making it now): though you're entirely correct that the changes won't affect 'your' region (on the buyorderside at least - perhaps there are sellers with many orders so it will be harder to buy stuff) they will effect a number of other regions for the worse since they appearantly do have such people that are lacking in your sector and they will give people less pay for their items or quit that business entirely. So it will hurt those sectors if not yours. Furthermore his point was that as it is today the possibility exists that someone discovers your region and starts buying your loot for more money then you're currently getting. That possibility will diminish or possibly disappear entirely with the changes. So when we sum the situation up for all players the sum will be negative - we will be worse off then before the changes. That doesn't prohibit that some like you will be mostly unaffected and possibly some will even gain on it (say a producer who suddenly finds himself alone in his sector and can hike prices enough to cover the loss from the items he can no longer sell). But that will be outweighed by the loss most people will get in lower prices to sell their stuff for and higher prices to pay when they want to buy stuff, traders not being able to aggregate stuff as efficiently as before and producers not being able to fully cover the losses they incur from selling fewer items by hiking prices. How much worse off we , as a collective, will be is impossible to tell without access to the DB but unless they're introducing some unknown other changes we will be worse off (which is an entirely different thing then saying the market will die - of course it won't - it will just be in worse shape then before). Now I fully understand that they make changes and one has to adapt but normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. It can't really be asked of us to be happy about a change when they don't give us any reasons to be so - so it would be bloody nice if they told us the reasons so we can weigh pros vs cons and have a real discussion. Because currently we're just discussing how bad the cons are. I see both his and your point. That's not what I'm arguing about, why that other guy quoted me, I really couldn't say. My point is that people saying that the 'lack of noobloot aggregators is going to kill the market', is just a sensationalising tactic, and will not sway anyone. I'm not denying what you guys are saying. And I'm impressed that some of you have found a niche like you have. It's not something I would have considered myself. Just that there are people in the thread crying 'armageddon' when that's not the case. it weakens the argument. .
Aelita	Posted - 2004.10.14 17:50:00 - [313] Seriously this new change will not hurt only me. It will hurt all who did sell noobloot to me. For people who have bad imagination here is few pictures to look at. I need to say it's only one week market agregation. Orsualert asset before was collected to one station 1st one third of hangar after agregation 2nd one third of hangar after agregation 3rd one third of hangar after agregation How my crux collection looks after I'm prepared to recycle As you can notice both recycle hngars have over 280 items and you can notice that all modules are in significant amounts some of them going close to 1000 after just one week. Really all these buy/sale will vanish, CCP should really take close look at and reconsider changing skills and revoke taxes and certain limits.
Aelita	Posted - 2004.10.14 17:50:00 - [314] Seriously this new change will not hurt only me. It will hurt all who did sell noobloot to me. For people who have bad imagination here is few pictures to look at. I need to say it's only one week market agregation. Orsualert asset before was collected to one station 1st one third of hangar after agregation 2nd one third of hangar after agregation 3rd one third of hangar after agregation How my crux collection looks after I'm prepared to recycle As you can notice both recycle hngars have over 280 items and you can notice that all modules are in significant amounts some of them going close to 1000 after just one week. Really all these buy/sale will vanish, CCP should really take close look at and reconsider changing skills and revoke taxes and certain limits.
Aelita	Posted - 2004.10.14 18:12:00 - [315] Drunkenmaster please would you step out this thread? You have no experience as noob anymore. I know you will not sell your basic loot, because you don't need money or like my m8 from alliance they does recycle own loot to make ores in 0.0 because there is no demand for it. In 0.0 will never be so it will not hurt you or me. As I'd say I'm moving Jade Nexia to 0.0 space for your info you can check this to see how much I can do from looting NPC BS just in same week Small 0.0 loot recycle session resul. So new market will not hurt me or you. It will hurt causual players like these: Letter 1 Letter 2 I don't have more stored because I'm cleaning my eve-box often. All what I'm saing this is tripple nerf bat on my enjoy. I ca live with it (adpat and live) because I'm leaving empire now and forewer because I can't play market anymore.
Aelita	Posted - 2004.10.14 18:12:00 - [316] Drunkenmaster please would you step out this thread? You have no experience as noob anymore. I know you will not sell your basic loot, because you don't need money or like my m8 from alliance they does recycle own loot to make ores in 0.0 because there is no demand for it. In 0.0 will never be so it will not hurt you or me. As I'd say I'm moving Jade Nexia to 0.0 space for your info you can check this to see how much I can do from looting NPC BS just in same week Small 0.0 loot recycle session resul. So new market will not hurt me or you. It will hurt causual players like these: Letter 1 Letter 2 I don't have more stored because I'm cleaning my eve-box often. All what I'm saing this is tripple nerf bat on my enjoy. I ca live with it (adpat and live) because I'm leaving empire now and forewer because I can't play market anymore.
Jahbulon	Posted - 2004.10.14 18:33:00 - [317] Edited by: Jahbulon on 14/10/2004 18:37:59 Quote: normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. Agreed 1000 times over. Can someone at CCP explain the rationale behind the new tax and order restriction changes? We had this debate over on the Shiva forums, where the consensus was, and still is, we liked the new remote order management, but we didn't like this tax and we definitely didn't like having to train for months to get back to where we already are. If you want us to discuss rationally, like adults, proposed changes to the game which for some of us are essentially the major part of our gaming experience, then at least take on board some of the comments. Why are you just doing exactly what you wanted to do with no account of our wishes? Furthermore: - what is happening to escrow? - are there any changes whatsoever to the NPC trade goods market, and the NPC market supply / demand for minerals? Please listen to us and at least help us understand this. If this were a combat change, we'd have had detailed chapter and verse on every element of the change by now, but when it comes to the market, it's always a fait accompli - "here are the changes, like it or lump it." ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Orestes, EVE Lead Forum Moderator Market people are strange. Fighting is so much more straightforward.
Jahbulon	Posted - 2004.10.14 18:33:00 - [318] Edited by: Jahbulon on 14/10/2004 18:37:59 Quote: normally when changes are made they tell us why and so far they haven't on this issue so we have no way to know what the pros of this change are. Agreed 1000 times over. Can someone at CCP explain the rationale behind the new tax and order restriction changes? We had this debate over on the Shiva forums, where the consensus was, and still is, we liked the new remote order management, but we didn't like this tax and we definitely didn't like having to train for months to get back to where we already are. If you want us to discuss rationally, like adults, proposed changes to the game which for some of us are essentially the major part of our gaming experience, then at least take on board some of the comments. Why are you just doing exactly what you wanted to do with no account of our wishes? Furthermore: - what is happening to escrow? - are there any changes whatsoever to the NPC trade goods market, and the NPC market supply / demand for minerals? Please listen to us and at least help us understand this. If this were a combat change, we'd have had detailed chapter and verse on every element of the change by now, but when it comes to the market, it's always a fait accompli - "here are the changes, like it or lump it." ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Orestes, EVE Lead Forum Moderator Market people are strange. Fighting is so much more straightforward.
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.10.14 19:07:00 - [319] Its like this: People play the scam card- bad People have stupid buys- bad People use orders to monopolize- bad There is no distinction between players- bad Soo they come in with specialization- good Fair pricing due less order avail- good nice and cool options- cool good skills for market- cool make people happy- great Oh the longest order length is 2 weeks. Sell order two weeks max -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.10.14 19:07:00 - [320] Its like this: People play the scam card- bad People have stupid buys- bad People use orders to monopolize- bad There is no distinction between players- bad Soo they come in with specialization- good Fair pricing due less order avail- good nice and cool options- cool good skills for market- cool make people happy- great Oh the longest order length is 2 weeks. Sell order two weeks max -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies

drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 22:15:00 - [321] No need to get like that, Aelita. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.10.14 22:15:00 - [322] No need to get like that, Aelita. .
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.14 23:45:00 - [323] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/10/2004 23:48:45 2 weeks? EVEN MORE ridiculous And drunkenmaster? EVERY reason to get like that. Just because YOU do not see a problem does not mean that we traders (fighter/trader in my specific case) don't see a HUGE problem. One which CCP can still avert. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.14 23:45:00 - [324] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/10/2004 23:48:45 2 weeks? EVEN MORE ridiculous And drunkenmaster? EVERY reason to get like that. Just because YOU do not see a problem does not mean that we traders (fighter/trader in my specific case) don't see a HUGE problem. One which CCP can still avert. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Excavation Svcs	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:06:00 - [325] 2 weeks? ahahaha, what a joke. I hope its not such a pain to put orders up like it is now. So, with my orders way above the limit when I enter shiva, does that mean I will be completely out of business for 3 months? I cant cancel thousands of orders that would take a whole freaking day hitting cancel. And I dont wanna do that, I spent hours setting these things up. I agree with Aelita, our profession got wiped out, this sucks.
Excavation Svcs	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:06:00 - [326] 2 weeks? ahahaha, what a joke. I hope its not such a pain to put orders up like it is now. So, with my orders way above the limit when I enter shiva, does that mean I will be completely out of business for 3 months? I cant cancel thousands of orders that would take a whole freaking day hitting cancel. And I dont wanna do that, I spent hours setting these things up. I agree with Aelita, our profession got wiped out, this sucks.
TheMiner	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:24:00 - [327] You people just do not understand. Traders have power now. A new class has been created.... Traders will be sought after members of corps.
TheMiner	Posted - 2004.10.15 00:24:00 - [328] You people just do not understand. Traders have power now. A new class has been created.... Traders will be sought after members of corps.
Hido	Posted - 2004.10.15 02:17:00 - [329] Originally by: TheMiner You people just do not understand. Traders have power now. A new class has been created.... Traders will be sought after members of corps. A good way to put it I say. Instead of every tom, ** and harry being able to just make an alt and trade there hearts out, now have to put a certain amount of effort into it. This will help cleanse the market to a certain extent and only leave the "serious traders" in business which in my opinion is a very good thing. I have started training the trade skills already so once the nerf-bat hits I am going to be on top of things while all the other peeps just *** and moan about it. The reason dinosaurs are extinct and humans are here today is that we were better able to adapt. So the only thing to do is adapt or die! Let the games begin. Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun
Hido	Posted - 2004.10.15 02:17:00 - [330] Originally by: TheMiner You people just do not understand. Traders have power now. A new class has been created.... Traders will be sought after members of corps. A good way to put it I say. Instead of every tom, ** and harry being able to just make an alt and trade there hearts out, now have to put a certain amount of effort into it. This will help cleanse the market to a certain extent and only leave the "serious traders" in business which in my opinion is a very good thing. I have started training the trade skills already so once the nerf-bat hits I am going to be on top of things while all the other peeps just *** and moan about it. The reason dinosaurs are extinct and humans are here today is that we were better able to adapt. So the only thing to do is adapt or die! Let the games begin. Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun



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