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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:21:00 -
[1]
afternoon.
we all know how rubbish these guns are.. so i thought id try a setup to see if it was possible to get any kind of results.. ill also give u some of my thoughts.
Hi= 6 x 1400
med= 4 tracking comps, think CPU is an issue to fit 5.
low= 5 damage mods, Gyro 2s, 1 reactor unit...
all gunnery at lvl 5, minnie BS at lvl 5.
this setup gave around the 12.5 damage mod, and ROF of 8.5 sec.. a few days ago, so not 100% sure on exact figures.
this is similar to a gankageddon setup, the point was to sacrafice all defence for total damage.. (well u would have thought)..
sitting at diff ranges to my target ship, up to 60km, the results were the same... i dont miss much, if at all... but no way in this world was i doing enough damage to be ANY use... and was unable to give my target(an apoc) any kind of trouble armour tanking.
The same kind of setup on any other races ship would be VERY tasty, and may actually be worth having no defence just for the amazing firepower... but not with the 1400mms.
To add insult to injury, u have to fit a mod in low to be able to fit 6.. then they actually want us to armour tank in the other 5 low slots with no grid left ...
It just seems insane to me that u can use an apoc, fit 2 large reps, and go fully armour tanked, AND use yer most damage dealing weapons, while having no troubles at all with grid. Then getting a bonus for cap.
or if ye dont fancy that, u can use a similar setup on a arma, as the one i tested with my tempest.. go for total damage.. and u own.
why has the Amar BS been given these amazing boosts?.. while the 1400s have NO roll in PVP that i can see.. many say 1400s are for sniping ... why would u wish to do this when u can just invest a few months training in amar, and jump into a arma low skilled and do more damage?.
so in summary..
1400s are impossible to make good, even by taking away all defence.
Tempest needs MUCH more grid to make use of its bonus fitting 6 guns, while armour tanking.. u cant even fit 6 1400s, never mind other modules.
1400s need a LARGE increase in damage..
I think it proves that even when sacraficing ALL defence to boost 1400s and its still mince, that we have a serious prob..
im sorry for yet another 1400 post, but thought some may find it interesting.
d solo.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:21:00 -
[2]
afternoon.
we all know how rubbish these guns are.. so i thought id try a setup to see if it was possible to get any kind of results.. ill also give u some of my thoughts.
Hi= 6 x 1400
med= 4 tracking comps, think CPU is an issue to fit 5.
low= 5 damage mods, Gyro 2s, 1 reactor unit...
all gunnery at lvl 5, minnie BS at lvl 5.
this setup gave around the 12.5 damage mod, and ROF of 8.5 sec.. a few days ago, so not 100% sure on exact figures.
this is similar to a gankageddon setup, the point was to sacrafice all defence for total damage.. (well u would have thought)..
sitting at diff ranges to my target ship, up to 60km, the results were the same... i dont miss much, if at all... but no way in this world was i doing enough damage to be ANY use... and was unable to give my target(an apoc) any kind of trouble armour tanking.
The same kind of setup on any other races ship would be VERY tasty, and may actually be worth having no defence just for the amazing firepower... but not with the 1400mms.
To add insult to injury, u have to fit a mod in low to be able to fit 6.. then they actually want us to armour tank in the other 5 low slots with no grid left...
It just seems insane to me that u can use an apoc, fit 2 large reps, and go fully armour tanked, AND use yer most damage dealing weapons, while having no troubles at all with grid. Then getting a bonus for cap.
or if ye dont fancy that, u can use a similar setup on a arma, as the one i tested with my tempest.. go for total damage.. and u own.
why has the Amar BS been given these amazing boosts?.. while the 1400s have NO roll in PVP that i can see.. many say 1400s are for sniping... why would u wish to do this when u can just invest a few months training in amar, and jump into a arma low skilled and do more damage?.
so in summary..
1400s are impossible to make good, even by taking away all defence.
Tempest needs MUCH more grid to make use of its bonus fitting 6 guns, while armour tanking.. u cant even fit 6 1400s, never mind other modules.
1400s need a LARGE increase in damage..
I think it proves that even when sacraficing ALL defence to boost 1400s and its still mince, that we have a serious prob..
im sorry for yet another 1400 post, but thought some may find it interesting.
d solo.
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Captain Rod
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:27:00 -
[3]
I agree. I think out of all the races. Minnie need a serious boost of some sort on the battleships. I don't think the other races should be nerfed though. However, I'm not qualified to comment on what needs tweaking as due to everyone telling me Minmatar BS's ARE BS, I know nothing of their strengths and weaknesses. I even get the names mixed up. Whereas I know all other races ships pretty well. Now that alone tells you something, doesn't it?
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Captain Rod
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:27:00 -
[4]
I agree. I think out of all the races. Minnie need a serious boost of some sort on the battleships. I don't think the other races should be nerfed though. However, I'm not qualified to comment on what needs tweaking as due to everyone telling me Minmatar BS's ARE BS, I know nothing of their strengths and weaknesses. I even get the names mixed up. Whereas I know all other races ships pretty well. Now that alone tells you something, doesn't it?
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:36:00 -
[5]
Why don't you try named 800s? Long range gank ships are STUPID and practically worthless, in all except fleet battles where you can get an enemy to warp to your entrenched position. Do you see Gankgeddons with Mega Beams? No you don't.
I don't use long range guns for anything Eve. They are there for people who are timid in their NPC hunting style and that's about it. Be a man and use close range weapons.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:36:00 -
[6]
Why don't you try named 800s? Long range gank ships are STUPID and practically worthless, in all except fleet battles where you can get an enemy to warp to your entrenched position. Do you see Gankgeddons with Mega Beams? No you don't.
I don't use long range guns for anything Eve. They are there for people who are timid in their NPC hunting style and that's about it. Be a man and use close range weapons.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Presidio
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:41:00 -
[7]
These posts can't hurt.
This is why I haven't used a Tempest for PvP (min. BS 5 and all gunnery 5) in 4 months.
Situation atm is if you want a gunboat go for amarr. If you want close range gunboat go with Megathron and if you want a missile boat or EW go with Caldari. Using a Tempest will just put you in a disadvantage no matter how you equip it.
Now I am not saying Tempest is worthless, all I am saying is whatever you're doing in a tempest you can do it better in a different ship built for that purpose with far less training.
Projectiles were always blessed with lowest damage over time. But that wasn't the problem since tempest was a great tanker. Tempest is no longer a great tanker (ever since armor tanking became viable).
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"Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive."
Mao Tse-tung
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Presidio
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:41:00 -
[8]
These posts can't hurt.
This is why I haven't used a Tempest for PvP (min. BS 5 and all gunnery 5) in 4 months.
Situation atm is if you want a gunboat go for amarr. If you want close range gunboat go with Megathron and if you want a missile boat or EW go with Caldari. Using a Tempest will just put you in a disadvantage no matter how you equip it.
Now I am not saying Tempest is worthless, all I am saying is whatever you're doing in a tempest you can do it better in a different ship built for that purpose with far less training.
Projectiles were always blessed with lowest damage over time. But that wasn't the problem since tempest was a great tanker. Tempest is no longer a great tanker (ever since armor tanking became viable).
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"Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive."
Mao Tse-tung
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Olev
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:43:00 -
[9]
well,i have used 800mm and its NOT my style,i like the 1400.. as they whas b4 the nerf..long range is my thing,not close. and the temp is suposed to be a artilery platform, as i see it.if i would go close, buy a typh..
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Olev
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Posted - 2004.10.03 12:43:00 -
[10]
well,i have used 800mm and its NOT my style,i like the 1400.. as they whas b4 the nerf..long range is my thing,not close. and the temp is suposed to be a artilery platform, as i see it.if i would go close, buy a typh..
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:01:00 -
[11]
Please CCP please fix this.
I regret choosing to be a minmatar :(
I have to start training for another races battleship because of this.
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:01:00 -
[12]
Please CCP please fix this.
I regret choosing to be a minmatar :(
I have to start training for another races battleship because of this.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:03:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Alowishus
Why don't you try named 800s? Long range gank ships are STUPID and practically worthless, in all except fleet battles where you can get an enemy to warp to your entrenched position. Do you see Gankgeddons with Mega Beams? No you don't.
I don't use long range guns for anything Eve. They are there for people who are timid in their NPC hunting style and that's about it. Be a man and use close range weapons.
is that post a joke?.. im testing the 1400s.. why u quote named 800s is beyond me, as the tempest has no real issue fitting these guns and still being able to tank up...
as for ranged gank ships being stupid.. this also can only be from the mouth of some1 that doesnt really have a clue about PVP and fleet combat..
But thank u very much for ur comments .
d solo
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alowishus
Why don't you try named 800s? Long range gank ships are STUPID and practically worthless, in all except fleet battles where you can get an enemy to warp to your entrenched position. Do you see Gankgeddons with Mega Beams? No you don't.
I don't use long range guns for anything Eve. They are there for people who are timid in their NPC hunting style and that's about it. Be a man and use close range weapons.
is that post a joke?.. im testing the 1400s.. why u quote named 800s is beyond me, as the tempest has no real issue fitting these guns and still being able to tank up...
as for ranged gank ships being stupid.. this also can only be from the mouth of some1 that doesnt really have a clue about PVP and fleet combat..
But thank u very much for ur comments.
d solo
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Presidio
These posts can't hurt.
This is why I haven't used a Tempest for PvP (min. BS 5 and all gunnery 5) in 4 months.
Situation atm is if you want a gunboat go for amarr. If you want close range gunboat go with Megathron and if you want a missile boat or EW go with Caldari. Using a Tempest will just put you in a disadvantage no matter how you equip it.
Now I am not saying Tempest is worthless, all I am saying is whatever you're doing in a tempest you can do it better in a different ship built for that purpose with far less training.
Projectiles were always blessed with lowest damage over time. But that wasn't the problem since tempest was a great tanker. Tempest is no longer a great tanker (ever since armor tanking became viable).
good comments.. which i totally agree in.. everything the tempest can do, something else can do it better... it has no obvious advantage other than weapons needing low cap, and a few m/s in speed..
Id like to stick with the 1400s for the now though, as these are just totally messed up... everyone is crying out for them to be boosted, even non minnie BS pilots... i think my tests clearly show how stupid this situation has got.
d solo.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Presidio
These posts can't hurt.
This is why I haven't used a Tempest for PvP (min. BS 5 and all gunnery 5) in 4 months.
Situation atm is if you want a gunboat go for amarr. If you want close range gunboat go with Megathron and if you want a missile boat or EW go with Caldari. Using a Tempest will just put you in a disadvantage no matter how you equip it.
Now I am not saying Tempest is worthless, all I am saying is whatever you're doing in a tempest you can do it better in a different ship built for that purpose with far less training.
Projectiles were always blessed with lowest damage over time. But that wasn't the problem since tempest was a great tanker. Tempest is no longer a great tanker (ever since armor tanking became viable).
good comments.. which i totally agree in.. everything the tempest can do, something else can do it better... it has no obvious advantage other than weapons needing low cap, and a few m/s in speed..
Id like to stick with the 1400s for the now though, as these are just totally messed up... everyone is crying out for them to be boosted, even non minnie BS pilots... i think my tests clearly show how stupid this situation has got.
d solo.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:46:00 -
[17]
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.03 13:46:00 -
[18]
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
"We brake for nobody"
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dabster
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
1400 is poo, smaller guns even more poo, apocs dont NEED to fit 6 tachs they still kick everybody's ass without breaking a sweat.
I'm only a little little bit sad my tempest went pop because it means i have no BS to mine with anymore (i fly scorps instead no way im paying for a new tempest any day soon ).
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
1400 is poo, smaller guns even more poo, apocs dont NEED to fit 6 tachs they still kick everybody's ass without breaking a sweat.
I'm only a little little bit sad my tempest went pop because it means i have no BS to mine with anymore (i fly scorps instead no way im paying for a new tempest any day soon ).
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
hmmm... the tempest is lacking any kind of good or even usefull guns over 10k range, 1200 are equally as mince.. the amarr BS class is not.. again another discussion.
this is a forum to discuss diff types of ships and modules.. i have tested these guns, and am now posting my findings..
why is it if some1 posts about needed changes, they are whinning?.. u clearly have no idea about ship setups as i noted in ur posts on the raven in the other thread, and are merely a forum troll that contributes nothing.
d solo.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
hmmm... the tempest is lacking any kind of good or even usefull guns over 10k range, 1200 are equally as mince.. the amarr BS class is not.. again another discussion.
this is a forum to discuss diff types of ships and modules.. i have tested these guns, and am now posting my findings..
why is it if some1 posts about needed changes, they are whinning?.. u clearly have no idea about ship setups as i noted in ur posts on the raven in the other thread, and are merely a forum troll that contributes nothing.
d solo.
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
erm...are mega beams not comparable to 1400's ?? Tachs are the 'super gun', and anyway with regards to range/fitting the mega pulse are comparable to 1200's and we all know which are more effective atm
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
erm...are mega beams not comparable to 1400's ?? Tachs are the 'super gun', and anyway with regards to range/fitting the mega pulse are comparable to 1200's and we all know which are more effective atm
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
Tachyon isnt comparable to the 1400, the megabeam is. And yes an apoc can tank with 2 large armor reps and 6 mega beams.
So please get your own facts right before flaming thank you.
And as for feeling "sorry" for choosing minmatar, nah allows me to train large energy turrets in 19 days so it isnt bad ;).
Just sucks the best looking ships in the game are gimped atm :(. Not enough cpu/med slots to effectively shield tank, not enough pg to effectively armor tank and on top of that the worst dmg around currently in bs vs bs engagements.
This will only get worse with elite ships from what I see, take the munnin even if you dont take the projs into account it's screwed because of the fact it's supposed to shield tank on 3 med slots (while you also gotta mwd, scramble and web).
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
its not like an apoc can fitt 6 tachyons and armour tank is it? without sacrificing a lowslot for power diag or reactor control. so whining becouse a tempest cant fitt 6 1400mms is stupid. why dont you try to fitt 6 1200mm and armour tank? just like the apoc can do, 6 megabeams and a armour tank...
Tachyon isnt comparable to the 1400, the megabeam is. And yes an apoc can tank with 2 large armor reps and 6 mega beams.
So please get your own facts right before flaming thank you.
And as for feeling "sorry" for choosing minmatar, nah allows me to train large energy turrets in 19 days so it isnt bad ;).
Just sucks the best looking ships in the game are gimped atm :(. Not enough cpu/med slots to effectively shield tank, not enough pg to effectively armor tank and on top of that the worst dmg around currently in bs vs bs engagements.
This will only get worse with elite ships from what I see, take the munnin even if you dont take the projs into account it's screwed because of the fact it's supposed to shield tank on 3 med slots (while you also gotta mwd, scramble and web).
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:21:00 -
[27]
?? k, muninn. 3 meds is short range, ( thorax, demios got the same ) 4 is nice and required for short range battleship but cruiser can do on 3. mwd,web,scrambler. Long range, given the muninns resists. large shield booster, amplifier, already has you tanking very well.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:21:00 -
[28]
?? k, muninn. 3 meds is short range, ( thorax, demios got the same ) 4 is nice and required for short range battleship but cruiser can do on 3. mwd,web,scrambler. Long range, given the muninns resists. large shield booster, amplifier, already has you tanking very well.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Shevar
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zu Lu
erm...are mega beams not comparable to 1400's ?? Tachs are the 'super gun', and anyway with regards to range/fitting the mega pulse are comparable to 1200's and we all know which are more effective atm
1200's are comparable to dual heavy beams. 800mm Autocannon is comparable to the megapulse laser.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.10.03 14:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zu Lu
erm...are mega beams not comparable to 1400's ?? Tachs are the 'super gun', and anyway with regards to range/fitting the mega pulse are comparable to 1200's and we all know which are more effective atm
1200's are comparable to dual heavy beams. 800mm Autocannon is comparable to the megapulse laser.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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