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1400mm test..... gankatempest?

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Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.03 19:11:00 - [61] Originally by: Shevar Erm 5000 in one volley? that is like a 1/3001/3001/3001/3001/300*1/300=0.000000000000000137 chance of scoring 6 wreckings in one volley... still beter than getting decent T2 BPO anyway - im shure he ment 500 more than 5000 -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.03 19:11:00 - [62] Originally by: Shevar Erm 5000 in one volley? that is like a 1/3001/3001/3001/3001/300*1/300=0.000000000000000137 chance of scoring 6 wreckings in one volley... still beter than getting decent T2 BPO anyway - im shure he ment 500 more than 5000 -------------------------------------------
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.10.03 19:22:00 - [63] some raw info for all of you: used the CLA to analyize the dot: (takes of course reloading into account which most seem to forget) Megathron with one 425 rail I (all gunnery skills at lv 4 and gall BS at lv 4): antimatter ammo 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1621,15 dmg/min Megathron with one tachyon I (all gunnery skills at lv 4 except large lasers at lv 3): multi frequency crystal first of all YES tachyon is the weapon which is compareable to 425 and 1400 if you look at their dot and not the megabeam. 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1611,49 dmg/min Tempest with one 1400 mm howitzer I (all gunnery skills at lv 5 and minmatar BS at lv 5 ): emp ammo this was a MAXED out char with all skills at lv 5!!! his name was EA NightShade and we tested it on chaos 2 months back ... yes I posted all this already ...... many moons ago 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1426,12 dmg/min suggestion: relook at the porjectile ammo!!!! give artilleries + 25 % DOT give artilleries + 10 % optimal range (at least) relook at the longer range crystals give pulse lasers + 25 % cap usage give pulse lasers - 10 % optimal range (at least) some simple questions: you would not use artilleries if you have other weapons trained would you? would you use a beam laser over a pulse laser 90 % of the time? would you use a infrared or microwave crystal over a radio crystal? while i wouldnt even change the dmg of the crystals make the cap penalty or bonus even more significant. this says everything ..... even without tracking involved the 1400mm just plain sucks even with far better skills and even on a tempest which has 2 dmg bonuses ... this is ubber crap unbeliveable that something like this doesnt get adressed asap. And tbh I dont even think its totally the devs fault but rather the playerbase which cried for more content instead of a well balanced game ...... it will be even harder to balance all the new stuff now .... one year back tomb started with his posts of all that GREAT balance changes which would come within the next few months .... its a year now and only a few things made it in I dont blame the devs for the rebalance of turrets or all the other balance changes they "wanted" to make. THE CHANGES ARE VERY GOOD AND MAKE BY FAR A BETTER GAME!! So again the change itself IS VERY GOOD!!!! BUT somehow the 1400mm got shafted. So look at them and fix em! Again .. TomB you made a wrecking hit with your nerf bat on those pojectile guns while you only scratched on pulse lasers (which is another issue). Shoot at them a few more times and it will even out! However this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INITIAL CHANGE which was indeed very good and I really hope you get a decent change for that missile issue as well BUT by all means look out for each module! The 1400mm has some wrong values which is all that needs to be fixed. The "whole" turret change itself shows us how you ...
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.10.03 19:22:00 - [64] some raw info for all of you: used the CLA to analyize the dot: (takes of course reloading into account which most seem to forget) Megathron with one 425 rail I (all gunnery skills at lv 4 and gall BS at lv 4): antimatter ammo 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1621,15 dmg/min Megathron with one tachyon I (all gunnery skills at lv 4 except large lasers at lv 3): multi frequency crystal first of all YES tachyon is the weapon which is compareable to 425 and 1400 if you look at their dot and not the megabeam. 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1611,49 dmg/min Tempest with one 1400 mm howitzer I (all gunnery skills at lv 5 and minmatar BS at lv 5 ): emp ammo this was a MAXED out char with all skills at lv 5!!! his name was EA NightShade and we tested it on chaos 2 months back ... yes I posted all this already ...... many moons ago 30 mins shooting at a can with ZERO (0 m/s) transverse veloctiy. 1426,12 dmg/min suggestion: relook at the porjectile ammo!!!! give artilleries + 25 % DOT give artilleries + 10 % optimal range (at least) relook at the longer range crystals give pulse lasers + 25 % cap usage give pulse lasers - 10 % optimal range (at least) some simple questions: you would not use artilleries if you have other weapons trained would you? would you use a beam laser over a pulse laser 90 % of the time? would you use a infrared or microwave crystal over a radio crystal? while i wouldnt even change the dmg of the crystals make the cap penalty or bonus even more significant. this says everything ..... even without tracking involved the 1400mm just plain sucks even with far better skills and even on a tempest which has 2 dmg bonuses ... this is ubber crap unbeliveable that something like this doesnt get adressed asap. And tbh I dont even think its totally the devs fault but rather the playerbase which cried for more content instead of a well balanced game ...... it will be even harder to balance all the new stuff now .... one year back tomb started with his posts of all that GREAT balance changes which would come within the next few months .... its a year now and only a few things made it in I dont blame the devs for the rebalance of turrets or all the other balance changes they "wanted" to make. THE CHANGES ARE VERY GOOD AND MAKE BY FAR A BETTER GAME!! So again the change itself IS VERY GOOD!!!! BUT somehow the 1400mm got shafted. So look at them and fix em! Again .. TomB you made a wrecking hit with your nerf bat on those pojectile guns while you only scratched on pulse lasers (which is another issue). Shoot at them a few more times and it will even out! However this has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INITIAL CHANGE which was indeed very good and I really hope you get a decent change for that missile issue as well BUT by all means look out for each module! The 1400mm has some wrong values which is all that needs to be fixed. The "whole" turret change itself shows us how you ...
Outcastino	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:59:00 - [65] Edited by: Outcastino on 04/10/2004 01:00:39 Indeed, 1400mm DOT sucks.....All projectiles need 20%-25% Upped dmg. Sure 800mm seem fine, but thats because its close range, their dot is still nowhere near megapulse. Or blasters for that matter. I went 1on1 with a full dmg raven on chaos. I got my ass handed to me and he was on half shield. While my large repairer was doing **, and the 2 dmg mods with 6 800mm scouts were doing ** too. Or the long range tempest full dmg vs. a normal long range tempest without dmg mods, and tanked. He tanked my dmg and kept shooting at me till i ran outa cap with my temporary shield tank. I could do more fkin dmg with a scorp ffs. -------------------------------------------- I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory!
Outcastino	Posted - 2004.10.04 00:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Outcastino on 04/10/2004 01:00:39 Indeed, 1400mm DOT sucks.....All projectiles need 20%-25% Upped dmg. Sure 800mm seem fine, but thats because its close range, their dot is still nowhere near megapulse. Or blasters for that matter. I went 1on1 with a full dmg raven on chaos. I got my ass handed to me and he was on half shield. While my large repairer was doing **, and the 2 dmg mods with 6 800mm scouts were doing ** too. Or the long range tempest full dmg vs. a normal long range tempest without dmg mods, and tanked. He tanked my dmg and kept shooting at me till i ran outa cap with my temporary shield tank. I could do more fkin dmg with a scorp ffs. -------------------------------------------- I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory!
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.10.04 04:46:00 - [67] Just raising the dmg 25% on 1400's isin't really the solution. Their are deeper problems such as how tracking is affecting hit% within optimal compared to within falloff. The 3 dmg types often touted as a bonus effectively make it even harder to bust a tank. The inability to throw anything useful in your 2 remaining hi slots on a tempest. (cruise launchers are ****poor dot and you won't have the cpu to mount em). Trackling change hurt the temp. Cap relay nerf hurt temp. Launcher changes GREATLY hurt the tempest. (what most overlook) Wrecking hit formula change hurt the Temp. Perhaps minor things, but all combined = imbalance. Ah well, Oveur acknowledged in a dev chat that proj were kinda fubar. Haven't heard a peep since tho. Training in L Artillery specialization tomorrow based on a dice roll since that chat, that they would indeed fix em. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.10.04 04:46:00 - [68] Just raising the dmg 25% on 1400's isin't really the solution. Their are deeper problems such as how tracking is affecting hit% within optimal compared to within falloff. The 3 dmg types often touted as a bonus effectively make it even harder to bust a tank. The inability to throw anything useful in your 2 remaining hi slots on a tempest. (cruise launchers are ****poor dot and you won't have the cpu to mount em). Trackling change hurt the temp. Cap relay nerf hurt temp. Launcher changes GREATLY hurt the tempest. (what most overlook) Wrecking hit formula change hurt the Temp. Perhaps minor things, but all combined = imbalance. Ah well, Oveur acknowledged in a dev chat that proj were kinda fubar. Haven't heard a peep since tho. Training in L Artillery specialization tomorrow based on a dice roll since that chat, that they would indeed fix em. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Zaintiraris	Posted - 2004.10.04 04:59:00 - [69] Aren't minmatar ships based around the idea that you do the warping in, have a relatively quick lock, fire a giant salvo from your big big gun, pray it hits, and then warp away? Hit and run? Yanno, guerilla tactics? So, if they make it an awesome ship, which I have no doubt they could, doesn't that defeat the rp perspective? (Btw, someone maybe already said this.. Its a little late for me to read big topics) --- Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.
Zaintiraris	Posted - 2004.10.04 04:59:00 - [70] Aren't minmatar ships based around the idea that you do the warping in, have a relatively quick lock, fire a giant salvo from your big big gun, pray it hits, and then warp away? Hit and run? Yanno, guerilla tactics? So, if they make it an awesome ship, which I have no doubt they could, doesn't that defeat the rp perspective? (Btw, someone maybe already said this.. Its a little late for me to read big topics) --- Originally by: CCP Hammer This game was so much better back before people knew math.

Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.10.04 05:21:00 - [71] 6 x 1400mm 1 Siege 1 rocket w/ defenders 2 x T2 sensor booster 3 x T2 Tracking comps 5 x T2 Damage mods 1 T2 reactor control Works... it hits at 125km almost every time for 350hp+ damage easy. What does it sacreifice? Defense as even 1 T2 Sheild Booster L won't make a real difference fitted. NPC hunting is very viable if you know your targets and you have your bookmarks set. There isn't any ship next to a railthron with a nasty loadout that can match it NPC hunting... nothing. However... thats about all it can do and is its only claim to fame. My Pest is subjugated to mining in empire. I'll use my scorpion over it for pvp anyday of the week. BTW to Iceblock... darth solo may not be a pvp god... but he is better than you fo sho! -----
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.10.04 05:21:00 - [72] 6 x 1400mm 1 Siege 1 rocket w/ defenders 2 x T2 sensor booster 3 x T2 Tracking comps 5 x T2 Damage mods 1 T2 reactor control Works... it hits at 125km almost every time for 350hp+ damage easy. What does it sacreifice? Defense as even 1 T2 Sheild Booster L won't make a real difference fitted. NPC hunting is very viable if you know your targets and you have your bookmarks set. There isn't any ship next to a railthron with a nasty loadout that can match it NPC hunting... nothing. However... thats about all it can do and is its only claim to fame. My Pest is subjugated to mining in empire. I'll use my scorpion over it for pvp anyday of the week. BTW to Iceblock... darth solo may not be a pvp god... but he is better than you fo sho! -----
Nilit	Posted - 2004.10.04 06:18:00 - [73] I've said this many times before and i'll say it again. There is a major flaw in design of entire Minmatar race. While they have highest speed ships, they also have lowest tracking weapons! It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The result : guns don't hit I don't care if you have 50x damage mod , I don't care if guns don't use capacitor energy , none of this matters if the guns don't hit. But oh well , this is probably dead horse by now , DEVs said they not going to "balance" this untill well after Shiva , so we're probably looking at 6 months+ before anything changes here. In the meantime I'll fly something elce , like Amarr. Have a nice day everyone. Arguing with EVE customer support is like chatting up stewardess on the plane - you know you're not gonna get any , but it's still hella fun trying
Nilit	Posted - 2004.10.04 06:18:00 - [74] I've said this many times before and i'll say it again. There is a major flaw in design of entire Minmatar race. While they have highest speed ships, they also have lowest tracking weapons! It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The result : guns don't hit I don't care if you have 50x damage mod , I don't care if guns don't use capacitor energy , none of this matters if the guns don't hit. But oh well , this is probably dead horse by now , DEVs said they not going to "balance" this untill well after Shiva , so we're probably looking at 6 months+ before anything changes here. In the meantime I'll fly something elce , like Amarr. Have a nice day everyone. Arguing with EVE customer support is like chatting up stewardess on the plane - you know you're not gonna get any , but it's still hella fun trying
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 06:47:00 - [75] Originally by: Kaylona Tso 6 x 1400mm 1 Siege 1 rocket w/ defenders 2 x T2 sensor booster 3 x T2 Tracking comps 5 x T2 Damage mods 1 T2 reactor control Works... it hits at 125km almost every time for 350hp+ damage easy. What does it sacreifice? Defense as even 1 T2 Sheild Booster L won't make a real difference fitted. NPC hunting is very viable if you know your targets and you have your bookmarks set. There isn't any ship next to a railthron with a nasty loadout that can match it NPC hunting... nothing. However... thats about all it can do and is its only claim to fame. My Pest is subjugated to mining in empire. I'll use my scorpion over it for pvp anyday of the week. BTW to Iceblock... darth solo may not be a pvp god... but he is better than you fo sho! were did you get all the CPU for that -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 06:47:00 - [76] Originally by: Kaylona Tso 6 x 1400mm 1 Siege 1 rocket w/ defenders 2 x T2 sensor booster 3 x T2 Tracking comps 5 x T2 Damage mods 1 T2 reactor control Works... it hits at 125km almost every time for 350hp+ damage easy. What does it sacreifice? Defense as even 1 T2 Sheild Booster L won't make a real difference fitted. NPC hunting is very viable if you know your targets and you have your bookmarks set. There isn't any ship next to a railthron with a nasty loadout that can match it NPC hunting... nothing. However... thats about all it can do and is its only claim to fame. My Pest is subjugated to mining in empire. I'll use my scorpion over it for pvp anyday of the week. BTW to Iceblock... darth solo may not be a pvp god... but he is better than you fo sho! were did you get all the CPU for that -------------------------------------------
Skywalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:21:00 - [77] I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? More Mafia info
Skywalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:21:00 - [78] I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? More Mafia info
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock and stop being so arrogant and call every1 else a pvp n00b, your not a pvp god you know!!! not that you are either but the truth is - Projektiles are "bit" suckky .... and need lots of brainwork to come out something useful for them -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:37:00 - [80] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock and stop being so arrogant and call every1 else a pvp n00b, your not a pvp god you know!!! not that you are either but the truth is - Projektiles are "bit" suckky .... and need lots of brainwork to come out something useful for them -------------------------------------------

Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:39:00 - [81] Originally by: Skywalker I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? specialization skill if for t2 weponary and is useless for T1 wepons .... -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Skywalker I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? specialization skill if for t2 weponary and is useless for T1 wepons .... -------------------------------------------
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:47:00 - [83] I agree CCP need to relook the minmatar combat design. Best speed + worst tracking just doesnt make sence. Its been said before, I am saying it now and it will be said. I just hope someone will hear us. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.10.04 07:47:00 - [84] I agree CCP need to relook the minmatar combat design. Best speed + worst tracking just doesnt make sence. Its been said before, I am saying it now and it will be said. I just hope someone will hear us. --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Trell Artela	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:14:00 - [85] To be honest I suspect minnie vessels were, overall, primarily intended for close-range combat. Consider: - very low targeting range - speed bonus compared to other races - armour tanking + very low cap usage on proj. turrets + low signature (i.e. don't suffer as much from fitting an MWD as other races) - lack the power/cpu to fit all long-range weapons in high slots anyhow (or at least not without gimping the rest of the setup) - above average drone space The only downsides are their being paper thin (but that's a general problem rather than with close combat specifically) and the less-than-spectacular DoT of autocannons. Mind, I'm not claiming that minmatar ships make excellent dogfighters nor does this justify howies being in their current state. I merely suspect howitzers weren't meant to be the minmatar's primary weapon and thus aren't considered a priority... And I do agree that a bit of rebalancing in favour of the minnies would be in order.
Trell Artela	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:14:00 - [86] To be honest I suspect minnie vessels were, overall, primarily intended for close-range combat. Consider: - very low targeting range - speed bonus compared to other races - armour tanking + very low cap usage on proj. turrets + low signature (i.e. don't suffer as much from fitting an MWD as other races) - lack the power/cpu to fit all long-range weapons in high slots anyhow (or at least not without gimping the rest of the setup) - above average drone space The only downsides are their being paper thin (but that's a general problem rather than with close combat specifically) and the less-than-spectacular DoT of autocannons. Mind, I'm not claiming that minmatar ships make excellent dogfighters nor does this justify howies being in their current state. I merely suspect howitzers weren't meant to be the minmatar's primary weapon and thus aren't considered a priority... And I do agree that a bit of rebalancing in favour of the minnies would be in order.
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:58:00 - [87] Originally by: Siddy were did you get all the CPU for that I use tomB's account seriously... i have uber skills where it counts + a lack of Shield boosting equipment really helps. -----
Kaylona Tso	Posted - 2004.10.04 09:58:00 - [88] Originally by: Siddy were did you get all the CPU for that I use tomB's account seriously... i have uber skills where it counts + a lack of Shield boosting equipment really helps. -----
Skywalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:06:00 - [89] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Skywalker I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? specialization skill if for t2 weponary and is useless for T1 wepons .... Arrrgh ! How could i miss that ? Im at work atm, but does the description of the skill say so ? More Mafia info
Skywalker	Posted - 2004.10.04 10:06:00 - [90] Originally by: Siddy Originally by: Skywalker I currently have Large Autocannon specialization lvl3 and in 5 days i will have it in lvl4. Yes, think im crazy training projectile skills...the thing is i have maxed out all important gunnery skills and im really hoping for the unerfing of minmatar weapons. I currently drive a typhoon, but i am thinking of getting a tempest again, now when i have specialization skill at lvl3. Im going to use 425 or 800 cannons, can anyone post what kind of dmg i will do with L autocannon specialization at lvl 3/4 ? specialization skill if for t2 weponary and is useless for T1 wepons .... Arrrgh ! How could i miss that ? Im at work atm, but does the description of the skill say so ? More Mafia info



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