| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
jukriamrr
   |
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:09:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Siddy
Now let see - alot of peoples whined back there than Tempest was ³ber if user had ³ber skills
now lets look at Amarrian ships - Theyr also are now ³ber - and even more ³ber with ³ber skills - now hows that?
or talk abaut 1337 skill raven what can lob out insane damage with minimum skills?
Yes - Tempest Needs to be ³ber with ³ber skills - and crap with crappy skills ( as it was)
now its TOTALY useless with crappy skills and Medicore with ³ber skills
Cant say same abauth amarr ships or Caldari ships
(galentte got nerffed kinda to - but they still got most ³ber closerange weapons)
This just in Siddy: what do you call "1337" skills?
So that I could know where I'm at... 
|
jukriamrr
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:09:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Siddy
Now let see - alot of peoples whined back there than Tempest was ³ber if user had ³ber skills
now lets look at Amarrian ships - Theyr also are now ³ber - and even more ³ber with ³ber skills - now hows that?
or talk abaut 1337 skill raven what can lob out insane damage with minimum skills?
Yes - Tempest Needs to be ³ber with ³ber skills - and crap with crappy skills ( as it was)
now its TOTALY useless with crappy skills and Medicore with ³ber skills
Cant say same abauth amarr ships or Caldari ships
(galentte got nerffed kinda to - but they still got most ³ber closerange weapons)
This just in Siddy: what do you call "1337" skills?
So that I could know where I'm at...
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:27:00 -
[183]
Siddy to not be bothered with tat question so he can come up with another diagram on proj ammo for the devs :D
l337 Minmatar battleship skills fall around 4.5 - 5 million SP if and only if you have trained it to be a fighter from day one. All gunnery skills to lvl 4 or better. Engineering and Electronics to lvl 5. navigation skills to 4 or 5. Battleship lvl 4 or 5. Ability to command 7 to 8 drones. Ability to use large t2 shield boosters and also the abilty to use t2 signal boosters. This is what it takes too be a l337 pest pilot. I have 23 perception and 20 willpower without elite training skills so it has taken me less time than most. But the average player will spend 4 to 6 months of training for this stuff.
Any skill that makes a direct impact on fitting... such as electronics upgrades 5... needs to be trained. Weapons Upgrades 5 also. This will give you more CPU. Ability to use t2 power mods is also a must so that you don't waist low slots on 1 reaction and 1 diag to give you that 10pgrid that you lacked.... that is the mother of all biaches.
Hope that helps and doesn't make you wish you had chosen Caldari or Amarrian as your character. I am glad I chose Minmatar. My first guy was a well loved/hated Gallente on these forums... and he struggled so much to fly minmatar ships well but in the end... it was his destiny to fly Megathrons. 2nd account was a bookworm gallente that mastered production / science skills and then learned to fly Megathrons and dominixes. This account did what the first longed to do and at 4 million sp had far more combat value than the other... who of which could fly every ship and fire every weapon at equal level in the game before interceptors showed up. My new char has less than a mil xp ( ~850k ) and can use a geddon. Medium named pulses are a step away as well as tanking skills. He also has frigate lvl 5 and is about a week away from interceptors... yes I know how to make a perfect char... /ends self promotion
-----
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:27:00 -
[184]
Siddy to not be bothered with tat question so he can come up with another diagram on proj ammo for the devs :D
l337 Minmatar battleship skills fall around 4.5 - 5 million SP if and only if you have trained it to be a fighter from day one. All gunnery skills to lvl 4 or better. Engineering and Electronics to lvl 5. navigation skills to 4 or 5. Battleship lvl 4 or 5. Ability to command 7 to 8 drones. Ability to use large t2 shield boosters and also the abilty to use t2 signal boosters. This is what it takes too be a l337 pest pilot. I have 23 perception and 20 willpower without elite training skills so it has taken me less time than most. But the average player will spend 4 to 6 months of training for this stuff.
Any skill that makes a direct impact on fitting... such as electronics upgrades 5... needs to be trained. Weapons Upgrades 5 also. This will give you more CPU. Ability to use t2 power mods is also a must so that you don't waist low slots on 1 reaction and 1 diag to give you that 10pgrid that you lacked.... that is the mother of all biaches.
Hope that helps and doesn't make you wish you had chosen Caldari or Amarrian as your character. I am glad I chose Minmatar. My first guy was a well loved/hated Gallente on these forums... and he struggled so much to fly minmatar ships well but in the end... it was his destiny to fly Megathrons. 2nd account was a bookworm gallente that mastered production / science skills and then learned to fly Megathrons and dominixes. This account did what the first longed to do and at 4 million sp had far more combat value than the other... who of which could fly every ship and fire every weapon at equal level in the game before interceptors showed up. My new char has less than a mil xp ( ~850k ) and can use a geddon. Medium named pulses are a step away as well as tanking skills. He also has frigate lvl 5 and is about a week away from interceptors... yes I know how to make a perfect char... /ends self promotion
-----
|
Milton Smythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:27:00 -
[185]
I only fly Minmatar ships and only use projectiles and missiles.
So I haven't tried any of the other weaponry.
Totally devoted to my racial gear.
Now. i don't want it to be better or worse then any others gear. Just different.
I make do in a way with what I have to play with,
and from what I hear some of my contentment is much due to not
having used any of the other races weapons and ships.
Balance really should be the key.
It's difficult to have all the weapon types be equally good
and also different , but that should be the goal.
If I lose I don't want it to be because I am stuck with crappy ships and weapons , and if I win I don't want it to be because I went racial traitor and opted for whatever Amarran ship that found favor.
I have not fitted large artillery on either my Typhoon or my Tempest since the tracking changes after I went through rigorous testing with every Minmatar gun.
I like the Dual425mm Autocannons and the 800mm Repeating artilleries (ok they have artillery in the name)
I always figured ok , the 1400mm and the 1200mm were only for use Vs Battleships now , but then I hear this test where it still performs poorly , even when the tracking is not an option (and by the gods , it has poor tracking) and where the testperson had top skills.
I hope the game will be balanced, but no matter what.
I'll still only fly Minmatar and use Minmatar weapons
|
Milton Smythe
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:27:00 -
[186]
I only fly Minmatar ships and only use projectiles and missiles.
So I haven't tried any of the other weaponry.
Totally devoted to my racial gear.
Now. i don't want it to be better or worse then any others gear. Just different.
I make do in a way with what I have to play with,
and from what I hear some of my contentment is much due to not
having used any of the other races weapons and ships.
Balance really should be the key.
It's difficult to have all the weapon types be equally good
and also different , but that should be the goal.
If I lose I don't want it to be because I am stuck with crappy ships and weapons , and if I win I don't want it to be because I went racial traitor and opted for whatever Amarran ship that found favor.
I have not fitted large artillery on either my Typhoon or my Tempest since the tracking changes after I went through rigorous testing with every Minmatar gun.
I like the Dual425mm Autocannons and the 800mm Repeating artilleries (ok they have artillery in the name)
I always figured ok , the 1400mm and the 1200mm were only for use Vs Battleships now , but then I hear this test where it still performs poorly , even when the tracking is not an option (and by the gods , it has poor tracking) and where the testperson had top skills.
I hope the game will be balanced, but no matter what.
I'll still only fly Minmatar and use Minmatar weapons
|
Outcastino
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:58:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Outcastino on 11/10/2004 10:59:59
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Outcastino
They only role atm for the 1200mm and 1400mm is reprocess and make into 800mm.
"That's because of the way people fight in Eve. You can't just pick your flavor of ship and expect it to do everything well."
Yes you can, look at amaar ships. They can do long range good, short range good, tank good, mine good, and have a reasonably large drone bay, too. Did i mention they have loads of cap?
"An artillery ship is going to need much support, but you have the benefit of range which means you can sacrifice deffense for tracking computers."
So i can do **** damage AND have **** defence? Oh no, no thank you.
"Try a 1400 Tempest with ALL tracking mods and no damage mods, see what that is like."
Not any good.
"Or if you really need to have a Ganktempest use 800mms. Gank ships are what they are and have historically been close range because close range guns do more DOT, to not use the 800mms in a ship with that role is silly. This thread is stupid to begin with, trying to use 1400mms on a gank ship is like cutting off your nuts to see what it feels like. It can be done but everyone is going to laugh at you."
Try tachyons/megapulse or 425mm on apoc or mega. It can cut battleships from 60km easy. Tempest with 1400mm has trouble with it. I wont even start on 1200mm.
"CCP is moving us toward better/more involved fleet battles with various support ships. Ships that can operate different remote devices at_long_range. Everything is not ingame yet. Be patient."
If other race BS can do long range, why shouldnt minmatar?
--------------------------------------------
I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory! |
Outcastino
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 10:58:00 -
[188]
Edited by: Outcastino on 11/10/2004 10:59:59
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Outcastino
They only role atm for the 1200mm and 1400mm is reprocess and make into 800mm.
"That's because of the way people fight in Eve. You can't just pick your flavor of ship and expect it to do everything well."
Yes you can, look at amaar ships. They can do long range good, short range good, tank good, mine good, and have a reasonably large drone bay, too. Did i mention they have loads of cap?
"An artillery ship is going to need much support, but you have the benefit of range which means you can sacrifice deffense for tracking computers."
So i can do **** damage AND have **** defence? Oh no, no thank you.
"Try a 1400 Tempest with ALL tracking mods and no damage mods, see what that is like."
Not any good.
"Or if you really need to have a Ganktempest use 800mms. Gank ships are what they are and have historically been close range because close range guns do more DOT, to not use the 800mms in a ship with that role is silly. This thread is stupid to begin with, trying to use 1400mms on a gank ship is like cutting off your nuts to see what it feels like. It can be done but everyone is going to laugh at you."
Try tachyons/megapulse or 425mm on apoc or mega. It can cut battleships from 60km easy. Tempest with 1400mm has trouble with it. I wont even start on 1200mm.
"CCP is moving us toward better/more involved fleet battles with various support ships. Ships that can operate different remote devices at_long_range. Everything is not ingame yet. Be patient."
If other race BS can do long range, why shouldnt minmatar?
--------------------------------------------
I love the smell off cookies in the morning, smells like victory! |
Sewell
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 11:05:00 -
[189]
First: wrecking shots mean nothing, it is DOT that is important (to those who keep whining that 1400's get to good wercking shots).
Second: I think one problem not mentioned here might actually be the Tempest pilots... How? Well, we loved our ship - we specialized, we trained L proj 5, minmatar battleship 5 etc etc - thus when someone got hit by a tempest, they sure felt the pain.
And I fear that our dedicated training will once again be held against us. I have 6Msp in gennery and Minny BS 5, and when the 1400's get un-nerfed that is probably going to deal so much dmg to some poor newb with crap skill that they are going to come to the forums screaming "nerf! nerf!" again...
|
Sewell
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 11:05:00 -
[190]
First: wrecking shots mean nothing, it is DOT that is important (to those who keep whining that 1400's get to good wercking shots).
Second: I think one problem not mentioned here might actually be the Tempest pilots... How? Well, we loved our ship - we specialized, we trained L proj 5, minmatar battleship 5 etc etc - thus when someone got hit by a tempest, they sure felt the pain.
And I fear that our dedicated training will once again be held against us. I have 6Msp in gennery and Minny BS 5, and when the 1400's get un-nerfed that is probably going to deal so much dmg to some poor newb with crap skill that they are going to come to the forums screaming "nerf! nerf!" again...
|
|
|
jukriamrr
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 11:13:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Siddy to not be bothered with tat question so he can come up with another diagram on proj ammo for the devs :D
l337 Minmatar battleship skills fall around 4.5 - 5 million SP if and only if you have trained it to be a fighter from day one. All gunnery skills to lvl 4 or better. Engineering and Electronics to lvl 5. navigation skills to 4 or 5. Battleship lvl 4 or 5. Ability to command 7 to 8 drones. Ability to use large t2 shield boosters and also the abilty to use t2 signal boosters. This is what it takes too be a l337 pest pilot. I have 23 perception and 20 willpower without elite training skills so it has taken me less time than most. But the average player will spend 4 to 6 months of training for this stuff.
Any skill that makes a direct impact on fitting... such as electronics upgrades 5... needs to be trained. Weapons Upgrades 5 also. This will give you more CPU. Ability to use t2 power mods is also a must so that you don't waist low slots on 1 reaction and 1 diag to give you that 10pgrid that you lacked.... that is the mother of all biaches.
Hope that helps and doesn't make you wish you had chosen Caldari or Amarrian as your character. I am glad I chose Minmatar. My first guy was a well loved/hated Gallente on these forums... and he struggled so much to fly minmatar ships well but in the end... it was his destiny to fly Megathrons. 2nd account was a bookworm gallente that mastered production / science skills and then learned to fly Megathrons and dominixes. This account did what the first longed to do and at 4 million sp had far more combat value than the other... who of which could fly every ship and fire every weapon at equal level in the game before interceptors showed up. My new char has less than a mil xp ( ~850k ) and can use a geddon. Medium named pulses are a step away as well as tanking skills. He also has frigate lvl 5 and is about a week away from interceptors... yes I know how to make a perfect char... /ends self promotion
Not that far off, then 
|
jukriamrr
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 11:13:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Kaylona Tso
Siddy to not be bothered with tat question so he can come up with another diagram on proj ammo for the devs :D
l337 Minmatar battleship skills fall around 4.5 - 5 million SP if and only if you have trained it to be a fighter from day one. All gunnery skills to lvl 4 or better. Engineering and Electronics to lvl 5. navigation skills to 4 or 5. Battleship lvl 4 or 5. Ability to command 7 to 8 drones. Ability to use large t2 shield boosters and also the abilty to use t2 signal boosters. This is what it takes too be a l337 pest pilot. I have 23 perception and 20 willpower without elite training skills so it has taken me less time than most. But the average player will spend 4 to 6 months of training for this stuff.
Any skill that makes a direct impact on fitting... such as electronics upgrades 5... needs to be trained. Weapons Upgrades 5 also. This will give you more CPU. Ability to use t2 power mods is also a must so that you don't waist low slots on 1 reaction and 1 diag to give you that 10pgrid that you lacked.... that is the mother of all biaches.
Hope that helps and doesn't make you wish you had chosen Caldari or Amarrian as your character. I am glad I chose Minmatar. My first guy was a well loved/hated Gallente on these forums... and he struggled so much to fly minmatar ships well but in the end... it was his destiny to fly Megathrons. 2nd account was a bookworm gallente that mastered production / science skills and then learned to fly Megathrons and dominixes. This account did what the first longed to do and at 4 million sp had far more combat value than the other... who of which could fly every ship and fire every weapon at equal level in the game before interceptors showed up. My new char has less than a mil xp ( ~850k ) and can use a geddon. Medium named pulses are a step away as well as tanking skills. He also has frigate lvl 5 and is about a week away from interceptors... yes I know how to make a perfect char... /ends self promotion
Not that far off, then
|
Hygelac
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 12:38:00 -
[193]
I tried this myself a while ago after loosing a 'Phoon to a gankageddon. Damage problems aside I noticed another crappy thing about that setup with the 1400mms:
You're ROF is now fast enough that you lose significant DOT because you have to reload all the bloody time :D
I'm still Tempted on 1200mms but I'm spending all my time in Friggys now so the BS just stay in the hangar these days.
|
Hygelac
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 12:38:00 -
[194]
I tried this myself a while ago after loosing a 'Phoon to a gankageddon. Damage problems aside I noticed another crappy thing about that setup with the 1400mms:
You're ROF is now fast enough that you lose significant DOT because you have to reload all the bloody time :D
I'm still Tempted on 1200mms but I'm spending all my time in Friggys now so the BS just stay in the hangar these days.
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 13:28:00 -
[195]
Ok - lets get back to the problem
Why is everyboddy Whining abaut Minnies longragen Wepons in conjuktion of skills?
And why the skills efekt them so much?
Well lets see - Minnie Longrange wepons got hig Values
Damage mod is 5
RoF is 21 (if i remeber right)
and on contruary - trakking is pants
Thees hig modifires are Efekted most by the skills % bonuses!
If we compare 5% increas in 3 and in 5, what do we get?
We get 0.25 increase in 5
and only 0.09 in 3
That is the reason Everyone sqeaze that last Bit of skillBonus in Long range projectiles - and when they get it all to lvl 5, Devs do and nerf it = all thous months of training WASTED 
and did i mention that Autocannons get least of all skillbonuses cause they got p00rest stats of them all... 
-------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 13:28:00 -
[196]
Ok - lets get back to the problem
Why is everyboddy Whining abaut Minnies longragen Wepons in conjuktion of skills?
And why the skills efekt them so much?
Well lets see - Minnie Longrange wepons got hig Values
Damage mod is 5
RoF is 21 (if i remeber right)
and on contruary - trakking is pants
Thees hig modifires are Efekted most by the skills % bonuses!
If we compare 5% increas in 3 and in 5, what do we get?
We get 0.25 increase in 5
and only 0.09 in 3
That is the reason Everyone sqeaze that last Bit of skillBonus in Long range projectiles - and when they get it all to lvl 5, Devs do and nerf it = all thous months of training WASTED
and did i mention that Autocannons get least of all skillbonuses cause they got p00rest stats of them all...
-------------------------------------------
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 17:43:00 -
[197]
i believe 23 sec is rof of 1400 but i might be wrong.
And Autocannons have the only stat they have going for them hurting them the most too, RoF. They chew through so much ammo that I think everyone who uses em' is crazy. You can damage tank lows to bring damage up but that also increases Rof which negatively affect you again. It would be better to fit Medium Named Nuetrons since your skills would affect them better than skills effect ACs.
It would also let you tank your armor... and a Tempest CAN tank armor if you use medium guns that pack a punch.
6x named medium nuetron cannons 2x siege launchers
4 t2 cap chargers, 1 t2 tracking computer
1 large Accomodation Armor Repairer, 1 Medium t2 AR, 3 hardners, 1 cap relay
Not sure what the damage would look like its been a while since I used hybrids... anyone wanna give this a test? Surely it could deal more damage than a scorpion while tanking better than a typhoon. Also having the ability to hit smaller targets than is possible with Large weapons and better hit ratio on BS targets might make things a bit more interesting.
-----
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 17:43:00 -
[198]
i believe 23 sec is rof of 1400 but i might be wrong.
And Autocannons have the only stat they have going for them hurting them the most too, RoF. They chew through so much ammo that I think everyone who uses em' is crazy. You can damage tank lows to bring damage up but that also increases Rof which negatively affect you again. It would be better to fit Medium Named Nuetrons since your skills would affect them better than skills effect ACs.
It would also let you tank your armor... and a Tempest CAN tank armor if you use medium guns that pack a punch.
6x named medium nuetron cannons 2x siege launchers
4 t2 cap chargers, 1 t2 tracking computer
1 large Accomodation Armor Repairer, 1 Medium t2 AR, 3 hardners, 1 cap relay
Not sure what the damage would look like its been a while since I used hybrids... anyone wanna give this a test? Surely it could deal more damage than a scorpion while tanking better than a typhoon. Also having the ability to hit smaller targets than is possible with Large weapons and better hit ratio on BS targets might make things a bit more interesting.
-----
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 18:31:00 -
[199]
@Kaylona.
why we still talking bout ammo useage?. 425s and 650s carry tons of ammo.. if ur opponent isnt dead or about to die when u need to reload, id prob just give in . iv never rat out of ammo in any of these guns before my opponent lost.
iv used 800s, 425s, 650s.. and all close range tempest weapons are very good, the point is we dont have a medium or long range that is on par with other races. and using lasers on ur tempest, eeeek.
this topic was never about anything other than the 1400s, and maybe the 1200s.. the tempest is actually a good ship, its just lacking some grid and a wee boost to 1400s.
d solo.
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 18:31:00 -
[200]
@Kaylona.
why we still talking bout ammo useage?. 425s and 650s carry tons of ammo.. if ur opponent isnt dead or about to die when u need to reload, id prob just give in. iv never rat out of ammo in any of these guns before my opponent lost.
iv used 800s, 425s, 650s.. and all close range tempest weapons are very good, the point is we dont have a medium or long range that is on par with other races. and using lasers on ur tempest, eeeek.
this topic was never about anything other than the 1400s, and maybe the 1200s.. the tempest is actually a good ship, its just lacking some grid and a wee boost to 1400s.
d solo.
|
|
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 20:12:00 -
[201]
Originally by: darth solo
@Kaylona.
why we still talking bout ammo useage?. 425s and 650s carry tons of ammo.. if ur opponent isnt dead or about to die when u need to reload, id prob just give in. iv never rat out of ammo in any of these guns before my opponent lost.
d solo.
same here - theyr usualy dead before i need to reload - even thous 2 ravens went down with 1 clip 
-------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 20:12:00 -
[202]
Originally by: darth solo
@Kaylona.
why we still talking bout ammo useage?. 425s and 650s carry tons of ammo.. if ur opponent isnt dead or about to die when u need to reload, id prob just give in. iv never rat out of ammo in any of these guns before my opponent lost.
d solo.
same here - theyr usualy dead before i need to reload - even thous 2 ravens went down with 1 clip
-------------------------------------------
|
ElCoCo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 20:22:00 -
[203]
The only setup I've been happy about in my tempest(besides short range) involves 6x1200mm's and 2 siege launchers.
I was very happy with it's performance against a gankageddon but I had over 100mil of stuff on it(to minimise CPU reqs) so I'll pass 
Now my Tempest is named "Worthless POS" and I regret having spent money on insurance
Well at least the trends change.... maybe after the next patch everyone will say OMG teh Tempest is uber,1400mm's own, plz hlp
|
ElCoCo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 20:22:00 -
[204]
The only setup I've been happy about in my tempest(besides short range) involves 6x1200mm's and 2 siege launchers.
I was very happy with it's performance against a gankageddon but I had over 100mil of stuff on it(to minimise CPU reqs) so I'll pass
Now my Tempest is named "Worthless POS" and I regret having spent money on insurance
Well at least the trends change.... maybe after the next patch everyone will say OMG teh Tempest is uber,1400mm's own, plz hlp
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 21:29:00 -
[205]
d. solo then the thread is improperly represented. Never was a tempest w/ 1400mm supposed to be a ganker. That is what 800mm and 1200mm are for as implied by their stats for range. Gank ships start from 7km to 75km for battleships. They also require lots of DoT. Tempests have been used as indy gankers and n00b cruiser gankers but thats where it ends. 800mm with 6 dmods has the dmod and rof and taclking ability to solo ( no pun intended ) near gates and 1200mm have the ability to be the main damage dealer at range in a gankfleet using EMP ammo. Changes to the game make 1200mm pretty much borked for that role. 1400mm role has and probably will always be for NPC destruction, long range fleet bombardment, and POS bombardment. With full respect... it was never to be a ganker and is solely offensive oriented.Going lower into a 1400mm's range isn't wrong per se... its just not optimal for its stats. A tempest needs boost to the targeting range for the 1400mm to once again take its role and put the railathon back into 2nd class bombardment status. That stat adjustment doesn't hurt anyone and gives minmatar pilots an actual role in fleet combat. It also doesn't hurt the game, if implemented corectly, or any other ships role.
Gankapest just simply isn't a gankapest if it has 1400mm. Now to state the obvious... there looks to be an imbalance that is there in what I just stated. Since Apocs and geddons can use the just about all its Lasers choices for a gankamarrian setup. However, I don't find this so. Because the simple fact is that you know what type of damage they are going to be doing and you know they are either for tanking OR for DoT. Either of which can be spanked with the same basic setup that involve adding just one dampner and two heavy nos to the gambit of your mods... all the while your tank or dot setup keeps you alive. You can also jam them with racial ECM so again they can't kill what they can't shoot. I believe it is these facts that make the Minmatar ships more versatile even if they might not have that flavor of the week gankasetup and especially not having a gankapest 1400mm setup.
-----
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 21:29:00 -
[206]
d. solo then the thread is improperly represented. Never was a tempest w/ 1400mm supposed to be a ganker. That is what 800mm and 1200mm are for as implied by their stats for range. Gank ships start from 7km to 75km for battleships. They also require lots of DoT. Tempests have been used as indy gankers and n00b cruiser gankers but thats where it ends. 800mm with 6 dmods has the dmod and rof and taclking ability to solo ( no pun intended ) near gates and 1200mm have the ability to be the main damage dealer at range in a gankfleet using EMP ammo. Changes to the game make 1200mm pretty much borked for that role. 1400mm role has and probably will always be for NPC destruction, long range fleet bombardment, and POS bombardment. With full respect... it was never to be a ganker and is solely offensive oriented.Going lower into a 1400mm's range isn't wrong per se... its just not optimal for its stats. A tempest needs boost to the targeting range for the 1400mm to once again take its role and put the railathon back into 2nd class bombardment status. That stat adjustment doesn't hurt anyone and gives minmatar pilots an actual role in fleet combat. It also doesn't hurt the game, if implemented corectly, or any other ships role.
Gankapest just simply isn't a gankapest if it has 1400mm. Now to state the obvious... there looks to be an imbalance that is there in what I just stated. Since Apocs and geddons can use the just about all its Lasers choices for a gankamarrian setup. However, I don't find this so. Because the simple fact is that you know what type of damage they are going to be doing and you know they are either for tanking OR for DoT. Either of which can be spanked with the same basic setup that involve adding just one dampner and two heavy nos to the gambit of your mods... all the while your tank or dot setup keeps you alive. You can also jam them with racial ECM so again they can't kill what they can't shoot. I believe it is these facts that make the Minmatar ships more versatile even if they might not have that flavor of the week gankasetup and especially not having a gankapest 1400mm setup.
-----
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 21:42:00 -
[207]
kaylona, the point of the thread was to check the viabilty of 1400 guns from a player with maxed out skills, while fitting for full damage... this to many ppl would be called a ganking tempest, as it takes away all defence to boost as much damage as possible, along with tracking mods in med ...
The test showed that no matter what u done, 1400s were not a viable option in PVP, this then means 1200s are also as pathetic, meaning Minnie Battleships do not have a medium to long range gun thats usefull.. thats what this was always about.
if ppl cant see that as a problem, then i give in..
as for the short range prj, i have no probs with them at all, and actually think they are very nice.
d solo.
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 21:42:00 -
[208]
kaylona, the point of the thread was to check the viabilty of 1400 guns from a player with maxed out skills, while fitting for full damage... this to many ppl would be called a ganking tempest, as it takes away all defence to boost as much damage as possible, along with tracking mods in med ...
The test showed that no matter what u done, 1400s were not a viable option in PVP, this then means 1200s are also as pathetic, meaning Minnie Battleships do not have a medium to long range gun thats usefull.. thats what this was always about.
if ppl cant see that as a problem, then i give in..
as for the short range prj, i have no probs with them at all, and actually think they are very nice.
d solo.
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 22:17:00 -
[209]
i think then we need to change the minds of eve players about ganking. It really boils down to a ship having a role it fits no matter the other uses. If a Tempest can't have a long range ganker then so be it. That doesn't mean that it can't be used in fleet combat. Problem is we have been using the standard Scorpion, Raven, Apoc, blaterthron fleet mentalities. Its CCPs fault really but now we have logistic cruisers and such to boost stats AND cloaking ships to setup our warp in points for our long range. So 1400mm given without its defenses is weak... but at 140km or higher with a support ship it has nothing to fear and makes the opposing fleet need a scorpion with 2 sensor boosters to dedicate itself to that tempest. Put 3 or 4 of them out there and inties to tackle and typhoons to keep mid to low range and I don't see any problem with your version of the gankapest... which is my NPC hunting setup with my damn near maxed out skills for guns and piloting skills.
Problem is that most people don't or won't specialize a task force that orients itself to a tempest... the tempest pilot usually has to get in where it fits in. So tbh in hind sight of of the bichin on forums about tempest and projectiles... and all MY bichin... it isn't that nerfed.Its our ideals of combat in eve that needs to be nerfed.I can already see the day that we will look back at these threads and laugh because we couldn't get past our own comfort zones.When it is said and done... nothing can beat a Tempest at long range ) 115km + ... absolutely nothing. Megathron comes close but a tracking amp/signal amp doesn't make up for the lost midslot that could have gone to a sig booster/tracking computer.
PS : I am playing devils advocate to you solo... i hear you but am covering every aspect of the situation becaue the nerf bat doesn't look at common sense : x(tempest) != y(apoc), thus y == nerfed or x == improved but can't because z(raven) >= y would result in z > $every_ship_in_game_now_for_pvp
-----
|
Kaylona Tso
|
Posted - 2004.10.11 22:17:00 -
[210]
i think then we need to change the minds of eve players about ganking. It really boils down to a ship having a role it fits no matter the other uses. If a Tempest can't have a long range ganker then so be it. That doesn't mean that it can't be used in fleet combat. Problem is we have been using the standard Scorpion, Raven, Apoc, blaterthron fleet mentalities. Its CCPs fault really but now we have logistic cruisers and such to boost stats AND cloaking ships to setup our warp in points for our long range. So 1400mm given without its defenses is weak... but at 140km or higher with a support ship it has nothing to fear and makes the opposing fleet need a scorpion with 2 sensor boosters to dedicate itself to that tempest. Put 3 or 4 of them out there and inties to tackle and typhoons to keep mid to low range and I don't see any problem with your version of the gankapest... which is my NPC hunting setup with my damn near maxed out skills for guns and piloting skills.
Problem is that most people don't or won't specialize a task force that orients itself to a tempest... the tempest pilot usually has to get in where it fits in. So tbh in hind sight of of the bichin on forums about tempest and projectiles... and all MY bichin... it isn't that nerfed.Its our ideals of combat in eve that needs to be nerfed.I can already see the day that we will look back at these threads and laugh because we couldn't get past our own comfort zones.When it is said and done... nothing can beat a Tempest at long range ) 115km + ... absolutely nothing. Megathron comes close but a tracking amp/signal amp doesn't make up for the lost midslot that could have gone to a sig booster/tracking computer.
PS : I am playing devils advocate to you solo... i hear you but am covering every aspect of the situation becaue the nerf bat doesn't look at common sense : x(tempest) != y(apoc), thus y == nerfed or x == improved but can't because z(raven) >= y would result in z > $every_ship_in_game_now_for_pvp
-----
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |