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Joe Forumtroll	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:01:00 - [31] 10 turrets going once..
Joe Forumtroll	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:02:00 - [32] 10 turrets going twice...
Joe Forumtroll	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:03:00 - [33] Sold! to the unimaginable nooblet.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:06:00 - [34] Legion only looks bad because it's bad solo and the zealot is overpowered. It's just as good a gang ship as any other t3. Agreed that the drone and neut subsystems are trash and need to be reworked though, but every t3 has some crappy subs not just the legion. Examples: proteus sniping offensive and pretty much all the propulsion subs (wtb chassis optimization) tengu cpu and power core subs loki mini-phoon and web subs (the web bonus is good but the slot layout is horrid) Also the laser sub is ugly as sin. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
SquadBroken Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Davinel Agreed that the drone and neut subsystems are trash and need to be reworked though, but every t3 has some crappy subs not just the legion. Fair enough - and I have to admit the examples you raised are valid. The difference being the legion is almost completely useless in gangs and the most vulnerable of the 4 comparatively. Fit the cov ops/interdiction nullifier subsystems and produce a workable setup that justifies the 1 bil startup cost.
arbiter reformed Minmatar Annihilate. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:32:00 - [36] yeh i dont want a 500kehp ham legion either Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe
arbiter reformed Minmatar Annihilate. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:33:00 - [37] Edited by: arbiter reformed on 06/08/2009 03:33:45 Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Legion only looks bad because it's bad solo and the zealot is overpowered. It's just as good a gang ship as any other t3. Agreed that the drone and neut subsystems are trash and need to be reworked though, but every t3 has some crappy subs not just the legion. Examples: proteus sniping offensive and pretty much all the propulsion subs (wtb chassis optimization) tengu cpu and power core subs loki mini-phoon and web subs (the web bonus is good but the slot layout is horrid) Also the laser sub is ugly as sin. oh and lol at op zealot thing, overerpowerd compared to what exactly? the diemos? the munnin? those ships need boosting the zealot doesnt need nerfing Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.06 03:41:00 - [38] Originally by: SquadBroken Edited by: SquadBroken on 06/08/2009 03:28:44 Originally by: Davinel Agreed that the drone and neut subsystems are trash and need to be reworked though, but every t3 has some crappy subs not just the legion. Fair enough - and I have to admit the examples you raised are valid. The difference being the legion is almost completely useless in gangs (low dps) and the most vulnerable of the 4 comparatively. Fit the cov ops/interdiction nullifier subsystems and produce a workable setup that justifies the 1 bil startup cost. Yeah the cloaky legion is terribad, but tbh the cloaky tengu and loki are pretty bad too. The proteus outclasses the other t3 in covert ganking by so much it's not even funny. I would argue it is useful in a gang though. Zealots are great in gangs and the legion is basically identical to a zealot but slightly better in every way. Originally by: arbiter reformed Edited by: arbiter reformed on 06/08/2009 03:33:45 Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Legion only looks bad because it's bad solo and the zealot is overpowered. It's just as good a gang ship as any other t3. Agreed that the drone and neut subsystems are trash and need to be reworked though, but every t3 has some crappy subs not just the legion. Examples: proteus sniping offensive and pretty much all the propulsion subs (wtb chassis optimization) tengu cpu and power core subs loki mini-phoon and web subs (the web bonus is good but the slot layout is horrid) Also the laser sub is ugly as sin. oh and lol at op zealot thing, overerpowerd compared to what exactly? the diemos? the munnin? those ships need boosting the zealot doesnt need nerfing OK, that's true the deimos and munnin are lolerrific. I still think the zealot is just a bit op. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
SquadBroken Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.08.06 04:32:00 - [39] Originally by: arbiter reformed yeh i dont want a 500kehp ham legion either 500k ehp fit non officer? Can haz? What's the dps on it?
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2009.08.06 04:37:00 - [40] omfg why did i train amarr. they have crappy 2b isk t3 ships that i'll never use for pvp. ccp make it better now just for me. cause i played this game since beta also
Kopach	Posted - 2009.08.06 05:03:00 - [41] I think people expect too much from T3 cruisers. It`s probably because of the price tag, which is not at reasonable (PVP) level yet. The concept is obvious though, you have subsystems with the characteristics and styles of all the racial T2 cruisers but being a T3 ship every version will be slightly better then the T2 counterpart. So you have all of the racial cruisers in one, which is fun concept and it doesn`t render the T2 cruisers useless because of the higher price. I agree that the price need to drop some but they still have to cost considerably more then T2 otherwise who gonna fly HAC in PVP when he can pew-pew it up in a cool SC? Anyway, Legion is fine and my favorite version is the "Sac"Legion with Hams. I don`t think the Tank is 500k but with full Slave should be close. Huge Tank with worthy DPS, what more do you want? I wish people would do more reasearch before they start to complain.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2009.08.06 06:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Lance Fighter .. huh? Similar dps to a zealot - check Similar ehp to a buffer sacri - check can run wh's up to class 3 solo, including probing/salvaging/hacking - check Where exactly is the problem? Surely the t3 shouldn't be doing the exact same thing as t2?
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.06 06:11:00 - [43] Originally by: SquadBroken Edited by: SquadBroken on 06/08/2009 00:20:59 I'm waiting for a fit that warrents the 1 bil + to spend on this ship. Loki - vaga on crack Tengu - nastiest tank in game. Proteus - tanks 1000 dps spits out 1000 dps. Legion - slightly better pilgrim, zealot. Note the difference? Link me a fit that makes this ship worth spending the money on. Originally by: Lance Fighter .. huh? Similar dps to a zealot - check Similar ehp to a buffer sacri - check can run wh's up to class 3 solo, including probing/salvaging/hacking - check Where exactly is the problem? That I don't want to use a t3 ship for ratting/missioning/wormholing when a paladin does it better. Perhaps I should clarify. Pvp setups only please. Thanks. The loki blows. How is it a vaga on crack? It goes at a speed of like 2300 m/s --
SquadBroken Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.08.06 06:50:00 - [44] Originally by: Psychotic Maniac omfg why did i train amarr. they have crappy 2b isk t3 ships that i'll never use for pvp. ccp make it better now just for me. cause i played this game since beta also I mentioned that I was an older player in order to point out I flew the other races t3 ships. The legion is vastly inferior to them. Troll if you'd like - or post a fit that makes it worth the isk.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.06 06:59:00 - [45] Originally by: SquadBroken Edited by: SquadBroken on 06/08/2009 00:20:59 I'm waiting for a fit that warrents the 1 bil + to spend on this ship. Loki - vaga on crack Tengu - nastiest tank in game. Proteus - tanks 1000 dps spits out 1000 dps. Legion - slightly better pilgrim, zealot. Note the difference? Link me a fit that makes this ship worth spending the money on. Originally by: Lance Fighter .. huh? Similar dps to a zealot - check Similar ehp to a buffer sacri - check can run wh's up to class 3 solo, including probing/salvaging/hacking - check Where exactly is the problem? That I don't want to use a t3 ship for ratting/missioning/wormholing when a paladin does it better. Perhaps I should clarify. Pvp setups only please. Thanks. Tengu can do loads more then tank :P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
RiotRick Black-Sun Pitch Black Legion	Posted - 2009.08.06 07:09:00 - [46] I will give you one good use for it. The Legion is the absolute king in soloing class 3 and class 4 wormholes. No other ship compares with the ease you can go through class 3 holes. And even the c4's are soloable. Your talking about the paladin being better at wormholes. Well true for grouped class 5 / class 6 wormholes. But the paladin has real trouble handling a class 3, because of the close range sleeper frigates. As for pvp, well the proteus seems to outclass the legion at that aspect. That's why I fly both :) -- The future is black.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance	Posted - 2009.08.06 07:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Tengu can do loads more then tank :P Indeed I think the tengu is the best of the lot. You can setup a very nice HAM-buffer tengu which is quick, as tough as a heavily plated battleship except with good regen and deals very respectable dps especially with overheating (700+). Loki can do some nice similar setups with autos and buffer, while reaching ok speeds but it definetly is not a vaga. Loki can also be setup similar to a hurricane with plates and autos, while the pure damage setups leave much to be desired. Legion seems to only be able to do what t2 ships can. It can be a slightly tougher Zealot, a slightly tougher sacrilage or a bit tougher of a curse. Proteus has some nice on paper stats. You can reach overheated DPS of 1000+ while having the buffer of a mega and a 15km scram.
Master Krote	Posted - 2009.08.06 08:14:00 - [48] Edited by: Master Krote on 06/08/2009 08:16:02 You can get some reasonable neut/damage/ehp mixes, like this: [Legion, Missile pvp legion with neuts] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Domination Stasis Webifier Amarr Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer Amarr Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ancillary Current Router II Still quite expensive especially with the t2 rig (hopefully viable after the next patch) but needs the faction mods to be able to orbit outside of normal web range while still neuting and webbing itself (basically to counteract the lack of a neut range bonus). Also quite tight for fitting so needs the amarr navy eanms and cn bcus. Does 510dps with rage missiles, speed of 1421m/s, 113060ehp (167k with slaves)and neuts 45cap/s (540/12s)at 14k. So far its the best pvp fit I've found that is not just a more expensive version of another ship.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.06 08:15:00 - [49] Originally by: TimMc Legion seems to only be able to do what t2 ships can. It can be a slightly tougher Zealot, a slightly tougher sacrilage or a bit tougher of a curse. I guess you meant Pilgrim because the Curse has a range bonus which makes it an entirely different ship to fly. 42km neuting yo! Problem is the Energy Parasitic Complex is utterly s**. I mean totally. Even disregarding the fact it leaves you with 13 sensor strength (i.e. 50% chance to be jammed each cycle by medium ECM drones) you still end up with only half* the neuting power of a Pilgrim whilst forcing you to get up close and personal in the same way without having any drones at all of your own for GTFO situations. The Legion can be a much-tankier Zealot, a smaller Absolution, a woefully ineffective Pilgrim or a cruiser-sized Anathema, but that's basically it, whilst of course being in orders of magnitude more expensive. Whilst you can argue that the Tengu has its rivals in the Drake & Nighthawk, it just feels like the Legion is gimped in comparison to the other T3s. I could accept that the Legion is "jack of all trades master of none" if the other T3s didn't exist, but they do so it's fair to make the comparison (and find it comes up short).
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.08.06 09:17:00 - [50] To be honest, if the Legion is subpar compared to the other tech3 cruisers, then I'd rather see the other tech3 cruisers nerfed. The Legion is, as stated, slightly better than identically fit tech2 ships overall, with added overheating capabilities, lots of EHP and some unique bonus options tacked on. That is a nice and proper place to be in, considering it already takes less prerequisite skills to attain than a tech2 ship. You should also remember that while it is a good cruiser, it is still "only" a cruiser. If the other three perform on battleship level and better, and outperform the Legion by a vast margin (which in turn already outperforms tech2 cruisers and some battlecruisers), then something is really really really wrong with them, and they need to be brought in line. Otherwise EVE's going to end up like WoW, where each time they patch in new stuff, all the old stuff immediately becomes obsolete. Do you really want EVE to be like that, hmm? -
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.08.06 09:25:00 - [51] Edited by: Durzel on 06/08/2009 09:24:59 Therein lies the rub. Disregarding current price (intended levels are apparently "T2 prices" for hull plus 1/8th for each subsystem) the Legion is pretty well balanced, but only against the other T2 ships. As stated above it can be a tankier Zealot, a smaller (sig) Absolution with more actual buffer, or a cruiser-Anathema (limited purpose really, though you could argue it would be a plex-running monster). Energy Parasitic Complex neut bonus needs to be raised to 20% to be at least equivalent in competency as the Pilgrim, but with the 13 sensor strength + no dronebay I'm still not sure it would be worth a damn. Compare that with this for example.

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