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Jin Entres
Malevolent Intervention
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Posted - 2009.08.10 01:11:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Vrabac If I'd try to make a zealot of it, I'd go with locus and grid rigs and use only HPLs and small cap booster. 520 dps with scorch at 48km with 2 t2 locus rigs and 72k ehp with no slaves or gang bonuses looks nice enough to me.
For a ship that does damage at range I'd say trimarks don't pay off as much, so would focus on maxing it's range advantage instead, with no real related penalties. Tank is still very respectable keeping in mind its a 50km range ship.
Low EHP on such an expensive ship makes me kinda irky, though. You know it's going to draw fire and staying at range is not a great guarantee of safety, especially since that same 50km is where large pulses and sentry drones will hit you best.
But it all depends on how you intend to use it, of course. I fly solo mostly so I'm required to stay within scrambling distance and for that purpose the 30km envelope is perfect.
And consider also that if mid to long range sniping is your goal, then you have the zealot and battleships in close competition. If you shoot at mid to small sized targets, the damage difference to a zealot isn't all too much and if you shoot bigger, then battleship is better for the purpose. So used in this way it doesn't seem to offer too much for the price. ----------------------
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.08.10 01:29:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jin Entres So used in this way it doesn't seem to offer too much for the price.
With the kind of price to performance ratio in eve, hardly any t2+ ship offers too much for the price.
What I wanted to say is that it actually outperforms the zealot at being zealot substantially. More dps, several times more tank (while having rigs that aren't tank related). Range is equal, legion has higher top speed, zealot is more agile.
Quite similarly, it outperforms the sacrilege at being sacrilege, and in pure 1vs1 potential the sac-legion beats the absolution too. Is this isk efficient? Guess it isn't, if anything I can buy heap of caracals for the same money and they will obviously kill the legion, but I can't fly 100 caracals at the same time.
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2009.08.10 02:18:00 -
[63]
For Solo Wormhole Work
[Legion, Play] Medium Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Energized Reflective Membrane II Energized Thermic Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Analyzer II Codebreaker II Cap Recharger II
Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Multifrequency M Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Salvager II
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
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Bastet's Organization Of Mining |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.12 13:55:00 -
[64]
I wonder how long I'll have to wait for this ship to be de-sucked :(
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.08.12 15:07:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I wonder how long I'll have to wait for this ship to be de-sucked :(
The day before Apoc went live the Legion had a 12.5% bonus to laser damage on SiSi (it has 10% now of course)
So, sadly, something tells me they want it to be out damaged by everything.
If they could just fix the covert subsystem's damage, it would be a start. I don't understand why this is so hard considering how easy it is to show that it's not in line with the other ships.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.08.12 15:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Gallente: 1000 dps, 250k ehp buffertanked monster with MWD cap use bonus, drones, and extended range scrambling. Caldari: 600 dps + ecm, can carry drones, pick dmg type, can be cap warfare immune.
What are those fits? - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request |
Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.08.12 15:32:00 -
[67]
Originally by: IceAero
If they could just fix the covert subsystem's damage, it would be a start. I don't understand why this is so hard considering how easy it is to show that it's not in line with the other ships.
Explaining why the legion is the one T3 to get 4 mids from the dissonic encoding sub instead of 3 mids and 1 low would also be nice.
TBH, there are lots of subs accross all of the T3s that don't work right/don't make sense either via poorly chosen bonus combinations or dumb slot layouts. The legion just seems to be the one T3 that didn't get at least one "good" combination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.12 15:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: IceAero
If they could just fix the covert subsystem's damage, it would be a start. I don't understand why this is so hard considering how easy it is to show that it's not in line with the other ships.
Explaining why the legion is the one T3 to get 4 mids from the dissonic encoding sub instead of 3 mids and 1 low would also be nice.
TBH, there are lots of subs accross all of the T3s that don't work right/don't make sense either via poorly chosen bonus combinations or dumb slot layouts. The legion just seems to be the one T3 that didn't get at least one "good" combination.
It's dissolution sequencer, and that sub really isn't the problem. The problem is the covert sub gives 1 mid instead of 1 low like the others and has an amazingly crappy bonus.
All the t3 need a third bonus on their covert sub imo.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.08.12 17:08:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: IceAero
If they could just fix the covert subsystem's damage, it would be a start. I don't understand why this is so hard considering how easy it is to show that it's not in line with the other ships.
Explaining why the legion is the one T3 to get 4 mids from the dissonic encoding sub instead of 3 mids and 1 low would also be nice.
TBH, there are lots of subs accross all of the T3s that don't work right/don't make sense either via poorly chosen bonus combinations or dumb slot layouts. The legion just seems to be the one T3 that didn't get at least one "good" combination.
It's dissolution sequencer, and that sub really isn't the problem. The problem is the covert sub gives 1 mid instead of 1 low like the others and has an amazingly crappy bonus.
All the t3 need a third bonus on their covert sub imo.
I don't know if I'd go That far, but would you not agree that simply changing the cap use bonus to a damage bonus would even the field? The mid->low slot change would be great too, but maybe less likely to happen.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.12 18:03:00 -
[70]
Originally by: IceAero I don't know if I'd go That far, but would you not agree that simply changing the cap use bonus to a damage bonus would even the field? The mid->low slot change would be great too, but maybe less likely to happen.
Very yes.
This is the best I've been able to come up with for a cloaking legion: [Legion, cloaky ganker] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Domination Warp Disruptor Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Republic Fleet 10MN MicroWarpdrive Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Locus Coordinator I Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Nano instead of dcu since the goal is to only engage things you can kite with the td. Also the mobility stats of the bubble sub are pathetic.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.13 09:35:00 -
[71]
But what's the DPS on that? I suspect it's not an awful lot.
Also it's pure comedy that it ends up with 4 lowslots whereas the Proteus gets the perfect slot configuration for a cloaky+prober+bubble immune neutron-monster. WITH drones.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 14:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Durzel But what's the DPS on that? I suspect it's not an awful lot.
Also it's pure comedy that it ends up with 4 lowslots whereas the Proteus gets the perfect slot configuration for a cloaky+prober+bubble immune neutron-monster. WITH drones.
274 with scorch, 344 with faction multi. So yeah, it's pretty crappy.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
techzer0
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:19:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The reason the Legion sucks, is because it doesn't do anything new.
Gallente: 1000 dps, 250k ehp buffertanked monster with MWD cap use bonus, drones, and extended range scrambling. Minmatar: Cap independent weapons, web bonus, speed. Caldari: 600 dps + ecm, can carry drones, pick dmg type, can be cap warfare immune. Legion: It has laser turrets. That is all.
Bolded the funny parts
You just described the Huginn and Rook... sorry istvann, but this post was a fail
I thought about a Loki, then I realized my Vaga does more DPS and is faster, so what if I could be bubble immune with a Loki, I'd probably die quicker too... I can't speak for the gallente T3 ship, bcus if what you're saying is true I want one ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:25:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 13/08/2009 15:25:57
Originally by: techzer0 I thought about a Loki, then I realized my Vaga does more DPS and is faster, so what if I could be bubble immune with a Loki, I'd probably die quicker too... I can't speak for the gallente T3 ship, bcus if what you're saying is true I want one
Uh what. Yeah a vaga is a bit faster, but loki does way more dps and has more ehp. Also consider that you can easily fit a gang mod without sacrificing much. Get a set of lg (or hg lol) snakes and loki is pure win.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
techzer0
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 13/08/2009 15:25:57
Originally by: techzer0 I thought about a Loki, then I realized my Vaga does more DPS and is faster, so what if I could be bubble immune with a Loki, I'd probably die quicker too... I can't speak for the gallente T3 ship, bcus if what you're saying is true I want one
Uh what. Yeah a vaga is a bit faster, but loki does way more dps and has more ehp. Also consider that you can easily fit a gang mod without sacrificing much. Get a set of lg (or hg lol) snakes and loki is pure win.
EHP is a nice bonus, true... but I don't see where you're getting "way" more DPS from a Loki. From what I can see with 3x gyros like my vaga it only does 20 DPS more, sooooooo ugh.
I cba to spend a bil on a cruiser sized ship I'll lose to a 10 man gang when I'm flying solo. ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:46:00 -
[76]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 13/08/2009 15:25:57
Originally by: techzer0 I thought about a Loki, then I realized my Vaga does more DPS and is faster, so what if I could be bubble immune with a Loki, I'd probably die quicker too... I can't speak for the gallente T3 ship, bcus if what you're saying is true I want one
Uh what. Yeah a vaga is a bit faster, but loki does way more dps and has more ehp. Also consider that you can easily fit a gang mod without sacrificing much. Get a set of lg (or hg lol) snakes and loki is pure win.
EHP is a nice bonus, true... but I don't see where you're getting "way" more DPS from a Loki. From what I can see with 3x gyros like my vaga it only does 20 DPS more, sooooooo ugh.
I cba to spend a bil on a cruiser sized ship I'll lose to a 10 man gang when I'm flying solo.
It has a bit more paper dps and an extra rig slot for another ambit. That increases your damage at range by a lot. Agreed about the price, although you're exaggerating a bit. They can be had for 400-500 mil now depending on subs. You just have to get to know a manufacturer instead of buying them at the ridiculous marked up prices.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:52:00 -
[77]
Actually wait, what? I was just going off memory but now that I actually looked in eft loki has almost 100 more paper dps than a vaga. Power core multiplier ftw.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.13 16:28:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Actually wait, what? I was just going off memory but now that I actually looked in eft loki has almost 100 more paper dps than a vaga. Power core multiplier ftw.
It laso has a range bonus to Web, imo its nice, albeit a tad expancive for the realtively low tank it can fit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 17:36:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Actually wait, what? I was just going off memory but now that I actually looked in eft loki has almost 100 more paper dps than a vaga. Power core multiplier ftw.
It laso has a range bonus to Web, imo its nice, albeit a tad expancive for the realtively low tank it can fit.
Yeah but it's hard to fit that sub on a vaga clone due to its weird slot layout. You can but then you lose the ehp bonus, so it's a pretty tough tradeoff.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:17:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Also the mobility stats of the bubble sub are pathetic.
Make sure you're checking stats with subsys skill at level V. The agility bonus overcomes initial sluggishness at level IV, and exceeds any other subsys at level V. It really does offer the best agility once skills are applied.
Originally by: Sera Ryskin And I have no idea what this bull**** about gang or solo is about.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Also the mobility stats of the bubble sub are pathetic.
Make sure you're checking stats with subsys skill at level V. The agility bonus overcomes initial sluggishness at level IV, and exceeds any other subsys at level V. It really does offer the best agility once skills are applied.
Fuel catalyst has better agility even at 5, and I was talking about speed not agility anyway. Low base speed + lack of speed bonus = slooooooowwwwwww.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:28:00 -
[82]
Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:32:00 -
[83]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
No drones and no range bonus would make it utterly useless.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:34:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: AstroPhobic Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
No drones and no range bonus would make it utterly useless.
Considering the covert subsystem and a gang setting, I disagree. I don't see any reason you need 5 medium drones if you're a 180k EHP neuting warping cloaked tackler.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:48:00 -
[85]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: AstroPhobic Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
No drones and no range bonus would make it utterly useless.
Considering the covert subsystem and a gang setting, I disagree. I don't see any reason you need 5 medium drones if you're a 180k EHP neuting warping cloaked tackler.
Here's the important thing though: how is a 180k ehp neuting (only out to 12km) warping cloaked tackler any better than a 180k ehp 400+ dps warping cloaked tackler? |
AstroPhobic
Divine Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.13 19:51:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Here's the important thing though: how is a 180k ehp neuting (only out to 12km) warping cloaked tackler any better than a 180k ehp 400+ dps warping cloaked tackler?
Hmmm, good point.
The neuting tackler can't simply be ignored in a small gang situation? A 400 DPS tackler is not a real big priority once engaged. I am trying to think of a situation where it would matter and I'm kind of drawing a blank. Oh well. |
Arana Tellen
Gallente Clan Death Corps RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.22 22:28:00 -
[87]
I think its better than the command ship in fleets when you fit it with:
Low slot agility mods Stealth subsystem Interdiction nulifier Gang warfare links Command processors scanning subsystem
No silly guns, just like a damnation it does not want to be on grid. The command processors are going to let you run 3 warfare links, you can scan people out and scout around pretty easily.
The stealth/nulifier is going to keep you alive, so if the **** hits the fan you can get out. ---------------------------------
Oh noes!
Originally by: CCP Greyscale *moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
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Skaara
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Posted - 2009.08.23 15:50:00 -
[88]
i didnt know legion suck so much till i read how good other t3 are
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.23 18:00:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: AstroPhobic Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
No drones and no range bonus would make it utterly useless.
Considering the covert subsystem and a gang setting, I disagree. I don't see any reason you need 5 medium drones if you're a 180k EHP neuting warping cloaked tackler.
Here's the important thing though: how is a 180k ehp neuting (only out to 12km) warping cloaked tackler any better than a 180k ehp 400+ dps warping cloaked tackler?
..that can also achieve this whilst sacrificing 2 high slots to cloak AND expanded probe launcher.
Cloaky neuting Legion has half the neuting power of a Pilgrim whilst having a sensor strength that would mean if anything so much as looks at you with ECM you're jammed.
Has anyone actually flown a Pilgrim and thought "I wish I had a s**tload more buffer so it takes 10 times as long to die when I've been baited or am being kited by something outside my awesome 12km neut range"?
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.23 21:14:00 -
[90]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 13/08/2009 19:46:24
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: AstroPhobic Has anyone looked at making a pilgrim on roids? Like stuff craploads of EHP, neuts, etc. I mean, it wouldn't have the dronebay or anything, but I imagine it would be quite nice in a gang setting. Screwed if you shoot it, screwed if you don't.
No drones and no range bonus would make it utterly useless.
Considering the covert subsystem and a gang setting, I disagree. I don't see any reason you need 5 medium drones if you're a 180k EHP neuting warping cloaked tackler.
Mind you it's just EFT foolery, but I don't see any obvious flaws besides the obvious lack of range and drones.
[Legion, Heavy curse?] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier Dark Blood Warp Scrambler Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Small Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Small Nosferatu True Sansha Small Nosferatu Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Do you really want to spend all that money on a ship that not only has zero dps, but becomes insta-primary if its ever seen on scan? The cloak only goes so far, and you might as well just cloak back up once your fleet arrives, because your completely useless past that point.
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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