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mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:20:00 - [361] Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...)
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:20:00 - [362] Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...)
Moneta	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:31:00 - [363] Edited by: Moneta on 13/10/2004 13:35:31 Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is being incomplete here. You can compare sets of values objectively only for their absolute contents, not for their quality (their "correctness" value). Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. Originally by: Aneu Angellus Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post. Aneu
Moneta	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:31:00 - [364] Edited by: Moneta on 13/10/2004 13:35:31 Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is being incomplete here. You can compare sets of values objectively only for their absolute contents, not for their quality (their "correctness" value). Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. Originally by: Aneu Angellus Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post. Aneu
Moneta	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:32:00 - [365] Originally by: Wren So is it good or bad to lie and say I have a metric book of hotness which Eris scores highly in? If you think its is good to lie, objectively speaking from your viewpoint it is indeed good to lie. Originally by: Aneu Angellus Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post. Aneu
Moneta	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:32:00 - [366] Originally by: Wren So is it good or bad to lie and say I have a metric book of hotness which Eris scores highly in? If you think its is good to lie, objectively speaking from your viewpoint it is indeed good to lie. Originally by: Aneu Angellus Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post. Aneu
JoCool	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:33:00 - [367] I can't believe I've read these 10 pages. Wasted an hour of my life.
JoCool	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:33:00 - [368] I can't believe I've read these 10 pages. Wasted an hour of my life.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:34:00 - [369] Originally by: Moneta Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is wrong. Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. By your own definition, your statement that Eris is wrong, is wrong, thus you statement is wrong, thus Eris is wrong. Er. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:34:00 - [370] Originally by: Moneta Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is wrong. Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. By your own definition, your statement that Eris is wrong, is wrong, thus you statement is wrong, thus Eris is wrong. Er. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:36:00 - [371] Originally by: JoCool I can't believe I've read these 10 pages. Wasted an hour of my life. Sorry Jo... but speaking for myself I didn't have anything better to do today
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:36:00 - [372] Originally by: JoCool I can't believe I've read these 10 pages. Wasted an hour of my life. Sorry Jo... but speaking for myself I didn't have anything better to do today
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:37:00 - [373] Just to tie together two threads (the truth of maths here and another thread about puns..) An Indian chief had three wives, each of whom was pregnant. The first gave birth to a boy. The chief was so elated he built her a teepee made of deer hide. A few days later, the second gave birth, also to a boy. The chief was very happy. He built her a teepee made of antelope hide. The third wife gave birth a few days later, but the chief kept the details a secret. He built this one a two story teepee, made out of a hippopotamus hide. The chief then challenged the tribe to guess what had occurred. Many tried, unsuccessfully. Finally, one young brave declared that the third wife had given birth to twin boys. "Correct," said the chief. "How did you figure it out?" The warrior answered, "It's elementary. The value of the squaw of the hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two hides." ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:37:00 - [374] Just to tie together two threads (the truth of maths here and another thread about puns..) An Indian chief had three wives, each of whom was pregnant. The first gave birth to a boy. The chief was so elated he built her a teepee made of deer hide. A few days later, the second gave birth, also to a boy. The chief was very happy. He built her a teepee made of antelope hide. The third wife gave birth a few days later, but the chief kept the details a secret. He built this one a two story teepee, made out of a hippopotamus hide. The chief then challenged the tribe to guess what had occurred. Many tried, unsuccessfully. Finally, one young brave declared that the third wife had given birth to twin boys. "Correct," said the chief. "How did you figure it out?" The warrior answered, "It's elementary. The value of the squaw of the hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two hides." ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Vance Black	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:41:00 - [375] i havent fully followed this thread but wtf. geez this has to be one of the weirdest threads i have ever seen on these forums. i ask u agruing over the ways some people show their decimal points. btw its a . or nothing --------------------------------- Back from the Dead never forgotten
Vance Black	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:41:00 - [376] i havent fully followed this thread but wtf. geez this has to be one of the weirdest threads i have ever seen on these forums. i ask u agruing over the ways some people show their decimal points. btw its a . or nothing --------------------------------- Back from the Dead never forgotten
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:45:00 - [377] Originally by: Moneta Edited by: Moneta on 13/10/2004 13:35:31 Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is being incomplete here. You can compare sets of values objectively only for their absolute contents, not for their quality (their "correctness" value). Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. When people try to come with a definition of good that is objective they will look for a definition that is acceptable to everyone. Here lies the problem (finding a definition that everybody agrees with), not that their definition is subjective because it was thought up by someone. If you reason like this no one could say they are free from bias and you enter such a degree of scepsis that ensures that alot of professions could not survive. Questioning is fine unless you end up killing the discussion because everything is personal and relative and there is no fundamental reason to listen or care. Anything goes then and people don't want that either I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:45:00 - [378] Originally by: Moneta Edited by: Moneta on 13/10/2004 13:35:31 Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Eris Discordia When you have an independant definition of Good or Wrong you can use it to compare other definitions with it This is getting way beyond me here, but how does one come up with a independant definition of a value? I read that to mean someones claimed to come up with a definition of good/wrong without being influenced by anything that could influence that definition? (clumsy...) Simple, Eris is being incomplete here. You can compare sets of values objectively only for their absolute contents, not for their quality (their "correctness" value). Definitions of good and wrong cannot be compared objectively as your own definition which you use as standard is not objective. Judging something subjective by a subjective standard can never yield an objective answer. Therefore, no set of values can ever be wrong objectively. Og course, subjectively speaking they can be, and people often go to great lengths to impose their values on others. When people try to come with a definition of good that is objective they will look for a definition that is acceptable to everyone. Here lies the problem (finding a definition that everybody agrees with), not that their definition is subjective because it was thought up by someone. If you reason like this no one could say they are free from bias and you enter such a degree of scepsis that ensures that alot of professions could not survive. Questioning is fine unless you end up killing the discussion because everything is personal and relative and there is no fundamental reason to listen or care. Anything goes then and people don't want that either I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:49:00 - [379] Originally by: Eris Discordia Questioning is fine unless you end up killing the discussion because everything is personal and relative and there is no fundamental reason to listen or care. Anything goes then and people don't want that either Oh brother, keep my relatives out of this. \o/ more puns. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:49:00 - [380] Originally by: Eris Discordia Questioning is fine unless you end up killing the discussion because everything is personal and relative and there is no fundamental reason to listen or care. Anything goes then and people don't want that either Oh brother, keep my relatives out of this. \o/ more puns. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:50:00 - [381] Just the sort of twisted thread I want to read at work and pass a few hours with I personally gotta agree I find 123456789 harder to read than either 123,456,789 or 123.456.789. Neither the . or the , bother me but help me visually to break the number up into smaller chunks so my mind can cope with them. Now what is a good system? Well the Roman numerals are only inferior to the Arabic numerals we use today in one way. The Arabic system contains a nothing, a zero - 0 - The Roman system does not. ThatÆs the only reason we aren't using roman numerals alongside the Roman alphabet in the countries.. err.. that use themà Yeah I know everyone doesn't use the roman alphabet and Arabic numerals - Scandinavian countries have more letters, and you've got different alphabets - but how you divide that in just one word I dunno... Now which is better really I don't know, it is subjective, its what you are used to... but... The English language has the highest number of dyslexics. Far Eastern countries using a Japanese/Chinese style alphabet (sorry can't remember what you call it). There's been a series of studies recently getting very badly dyslexic people who's only language is English and teaching them other languages. The Japanese/Chinese based languages have actually come out the best for the human brain to cope with and English the hardest. So is that a way of saying what is best - and English isn't the best for the human mind to interpret... I would say a metric system is best, because it the one IÆm personally more familiar with û but is this the easiest system for the human brain? I havenÆt read anything about thatà Just a little more to chew over - I'd be glad if anyone can find the research - it was published in New Scientist awhile back. Audita et altera pars
CmdoColin	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:50:00 - [382] Just the sort of twisted thread I want to read at work and pass a few hours with I personally gotta agree I find 123456789 harder to read than either 123,456,789 or 123.456.789. Neither the . or the , bother me but help me visually to break the number up into smaller chunks so my mind can cope with them. Now what is a good system? Well the Roman numerals are only inferior to the Arabic numerals we use today in one way. The Arabic system contains a nothing, a zero - 0 - The Roman system does not. ThatÆs the only reason we aren't using roman numerals alongside the Roman alphabet in the countries.. err.. that use themà Yeah I know everyone doesn't use the roman alphabet and Arabic numerals - Scandinavian countries have more letters, and you've got different alphabets - but how you divide that in just one word I dunno... Now which is better really I don't know, it is subjective, its what you are used to... but... The English language has the highest number of dyslexics. Far Eastern countries using a Japanese/Chinese style alphabet (sorry can't remember what you call it). There's been a series of studies recently getting very badly dyslexic people who's only language is English and teaching them other languages. The Japanese/Chinese based languages have actually come out the best for the human brain to cope with and English the hardest. So is that a way of saying what is best - and English isn't the best for the human mind to interpret... I would say a metric system is best, because it the one IÆm personally more familiar with û but is this the easiest system for the human brain? I havenÆt read anything about thatà Just a little more to chew over - I'd be glad if anyone can find the research - it was published in New Scientist awhile back. Audita et altera pars
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:54:00 - [383] Edited by: Arkanis on 13/10/2004 14:02:54 Originally by: Cardassius English metric: 100,000,000,000.1830219843 Rest of europe: 100.000.000.000.000,22989032 You are calling the system you use stupid then. I'm not a mathematician but as far as I know, the reason why we use comma where the rest Europe uses the point is due to the comma being the separator in our language and that ends up separating the number to be easier to digest while the point, used to signify the end of a sentence also means the end of the integer number and the start of the float. At least, that's how I was taught it and explained it. Originally by: Cardassius You know where they drive on the left side of the road ;) We drive on the left because the majority of sword wielders where right handed :) Its all down to the swords. Probably dragons too. as far as I know, the majority of ccp's client base as well as themselves come from Europe, so I'm not sure why they're using the 'English' method of interpreting numbers while leaning more towards the 'North American' style of English. I want my U in armour hardener.
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:54:00 - [384] Edited by: Arkanis on 13/10/2004 14:02:54 Originally by: Cardassius English metric: 100,000,000,000.1830219843 Rest of europe: 100.000.000.000.000,22989032 You are calling the system you use stupid then. I'm not a mathematician but as far as I know, the reason why we use comma where the rest Europe uses the point is due to the comma being the separator in our language and that ends up separating the number to be easier to digest while the point, used to signify the end of a sentence also means the end of the integer number and the start of the float. At least, that's how I was taught it and explained it. Originally by: Cardassius You know where they drive on the left side of the road ;) We drive on the left because the majority of sword wielders where right handed :) Its all down to the swords. Probably dragons too. as far as I know, the majority of ccp's client base as well as themselves come from Europe, so I'm not sure why they're using the 'English' method of interpreting numbers while leaning more towards the 'North American' style of English. I want my U in armour hardener.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:58:00 - [385] Edited by: mahhy on 13/10/2004 14:01:01 Originally by: Vance Black i havent fully followed this thread but wtf. geez this has to be one of the weirdest threads i have ever seen on these forums. i ask u agruing over the ways some people show their decimal points. The guy who started it is probably doing exactly the same thing: "WTF? "
mahhy	Posted - 2004.10.13 13:58:00 - [386] Edited by: mahhy on 13/10/2004 14:01:01 Originally by: Vance Black i havent fully followed this thread but wtf. geez this has to be one of the weirdest threads i have ever seen on these forums. i ask u agruing over the ways some people show their decimal points. The guy who started it is probably doing exactly the same thing: "WTF? "
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.13 14:09:00 - [387] Originally by: Eris Discordia Whoaaa! Interesting discussion here, but I do have to ask if you all can be a bit more respectful in your replies to others. If peopl don't agree with you, or refuse to get a point it does not excuse personal attacks or trolling. What if they refuse to get a comma? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.13 14:09:00 - [388] Originally by: Eris Discordia Whoaaa! Interesting discussion here, but I do have to ask if you all can be a bit more respectful in your replies to others. If peopl don't agree with you, or refuse to get a point it does not excuse personal attacks or trolling. What if they refuse to get a comma? -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 14:11:00 - [389] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Eris Discordia Whoaaa! Interesting discussion here, but I do have to ask if you all can be a bit more respectful in your replies to others. If peopl don't agree with you, or refuse to get a point it does not excuse personal attacks or trolling. What if they refuse to get a comma? ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.10.13 14:11:00 - [390] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Eris Discordia Whoaaa! Interesting discussion here, but I do have to ask if you all can be a bit more respectful in your replies to others. If peopl don't agree with you, or refuse to get a point it does not excuse personal attacks or trolling. What if they refuse to get a comma? ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.

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