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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:30:00 -
[271]
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.11.17 12:30:00 -
[272]
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
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TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2004.11.17 16:06:00 -
[273]
 Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
Then how do u know its senseless ?
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
TotensBurntCorpse
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Posted - 2004.11.17 16:06:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
Then how do u know its senseless ?
TotensBurntCorpse
Likes
EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty.
Dislikes
Not much. |
Nooey
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Posted - 2004.11.17 18:58:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
Greetings Troll. You have exceeded your stupidity limit for the day. Thankyou and please don't come again. Of course, you're probably not reading this, so I guess this is just me venting at someone's lack of attention span.
I'm STILL waiting on my 10m. Or even...a reply...
And Total, I haven't read ALL your replies (Gotta run, I will read em later), but from what I saw, you were creating ISK from NPC's via them granting 1000ISK to you at the start. Therefore outside parties are involved, therefore, you don't win the 10m. Granted, I haven't read your posts very in-depth and kinda assumed from you talking about handing over starting inheritances. Sorry if I assumed too much.
I still think I deserved my 10m. 
Show Your Support For Kaleigh Doyle.
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Nooey
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Posted - 2004.11.17 18:58:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
Hello, I'm your friendly voice of sensibility.
I appear every few pages to remind you: "This is totally sensless"
I don't even read the replies any more.
Greetings Troll. You have exceeded your stupidity limit for the day. Thankyou and please don't come again. Of course, you're probably not reading this, so I guess this is just me venting at someone's lack of attention span.
I'm STILL waiting on my 10m. Or even...a reply...
And Total, I haven't read ALL your replies (Gotta run, I will read em later), but from what I saw, you were creating ISK from NPC's via them granting 1000ISK to you at the start. Therefore outside parties are involved, therefore, you don't win the 10m. Granted, I haven't read your posts very in-depth and kinda assumed from you talking about handing over starting inheritances. Sorry if I assumed too much.
I still think I deserved my 10m.
Show Your Support For Kaleigh Doyle.
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Morning Maniac
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Posted - 2004.11.19 12:02:00 -
[277]
OK, I am an economics man :)
Players cannot introduce ISK into the game without npc unless there is a form of banking. In the real world banks can create money by borrowing people more money then what they have in store themselves. Since players can't "print" isk they would need a system, "a bank account" where they could deposit this borrowed isk. It's possible, I just don't see it happen as it's lots of work and it requires a lot of faith.
So atm players might not introduce ISK without npc help but they do introduce money, since money is anything that's accepted as a currency of trade.
WTT my ship vs your megacyte.
In a closed model without any npc interaction the amount of ISK in the total player base would remain constant, not taking player creation and biomassing into account. I think in such a case people would switch to minerals or other items for currency in the long run.
So yes, I think Mr. Keens is right... There goes my 10mil :(
MM
Channel "EVE University"
www.eve-university.cjb.net (ingame)
EVE University commercial |
Morning Maniac
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Posted - 2004.11.19 12:02:00 -
[278]
OK, I am an economics man :)
Players cannot introduce ISK into the game without npc unless there is a form of banking. In the real world banks can create money by borrowing people more money then what they have in store themselves. Since players can't "print" isk they would need a system, "a bank account" where they could deposit this borrowed isk. It's possible, I just don't see it happen as it's lots of work and it requires a lot of faith.
So atm players might not introduce ISK without npc help but they do introduce money, since money is anything that's accepted as a currency of trade.
WTT my ship vs your megacyte.
In a closed model without any npc interaction the amount of ISK in the total player base would remain constant, not taking player creation and biomassing into account. I think in such a case people would switch to minerals or other items for currency in the long run.
So yes, I think Mr. Keens is right... There goes my 10mil :(
MM
Channel "EVE University"
www.eve-university.cjb.net (ingame)
EVE University commercial |
Iachrites Archveult
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Posted - 2004.11.19 16:11:00 -
[279]
Correct but make that 'player banking' - otherwise it is still reliance on NPCs...
What I mean to say is, the banks would have to be player corps able to produce ISK in some fashion. (...and there would still be question marks about whether their ability to do so ultimately would go back to NPC sovereignties...)
Another point is that the electronic nature of ISK hides the fact that it is cash. It isn't electronic money in the sense of our modern banking system. It isn't the notional money that floats around in our RL system: ISK is cold hard cash - it's just made of electrons rather than silver or gold...
This is actually why Keen is correct, notwithstanding the technical semi-exploit that Nooey very cleverly exposed.
Iac
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Iachrites Archveult
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Posted - 2004.11.19 16:11:00 -
[280]
Correct but make that 'player banking' - otherwise it is still reliance on NPCs...
What I mean to say is, the banks would have to be player corps able to produce ISK in some fashion. (...and there would still be question marks about whether their ability to do so ultimately would go back to NPC sovereignties...)
Another point is that the electronic nature of ISK hides the fact that it is cash. It isn't electronic money in the sense of our modern banking system. It isn't the notional money that floats around in our RL system: ISK is cold hard cash - it's just made of electrons rather than silver or gold...
This is actually why Keen is correct, notwithstanding the technical semi-exploit that Nooey very cleverly exposed.
Iac
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GM Rendo
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Posted - 2004.11.20 22:23:00 -
[281]
If I may add my thoughts to this pointless discussion. The only way for isk to flow into EVE is via NPC interaction which is quite obvious if I might add. Anyone that's able to find a way to introduce isk into Eve by player vs. player transaction would just be uncovering an exploit, which mr Nooey seems to have done, although a rather minor one which does not require a rollback  . J'Maby Keens theory is how EVE is supposed to work in it's current state and that will most likely continue into Exodus. In my opinion Nooey beat the challenge though and deserves his isk. Finally, let's end this discussion once and for all.
/Cheers
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GM Rendo
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Posted - 2004.11.20 22:23:00 -
[282]
If I may add my thoughts to this pointless discussion. The only way for isk to flow into EVE is via NPC interaction which is quite obvious if I might add. Anyone that's able to find a way to introduce isk into Eve by player vs. player transaction would just be uncovering an exploit, which mr Nooey seems to have done, although a rather minor one which does not require a rollback . J'Maby Keens theory is how EVE is supposed to work in it's current state and that will most likely continue into Exodus. In my opinion Nooey beat the challenge though and deserves his isk. Finally, let's end this discussion once and for all.
/Cheers
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.11.23 08:30:00 -
[283]
oh yeah, btw, more oddness with teh economics engine in eve. there is no such thing as 0.
if you have 1.1 isk and try to trade over .1 isk to someone else you end up with .99 isk.
try it out.
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.11.23 08:30:00 -
[284]
oh yeah, btw, more oddness with teh economics engine in eve. there is no such thing as 0.
if you have 1.1 isk and try to trade over .1 isk to someone else you end up with .99 isk.
try it out.
--------------------------
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Morlocke
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Posted - 2004.11.23 21:50:00 -
[285]
Originally by: J'Maybe Keens
i recently wrote an article on Eve Guardian, basically it is a simple isk flow model within Eve.
It has caused some argument.
The basic problem being, it says no ISK at all is introduced into EVE by player to player transactions. Only by Player, NPC interaction can isk be introduced or removed from the the "visible economy".
The visible economy being the stuff we can actually see within the game.
Anyway, there seems to be plenty of people prepared to argue I am wrong.
For full details of how proving me wrong can earn you 10million isk read the article and have a look at the competition details.
The article is at EVE Guardian
No, I think you're quite right. The only source of currency - with the exception of bugs or exploits - is (a) NPC bounties, (b) sale of goods to NPCs, and (c) insurance payment by NPCs. Some may argue (d) received from other players, but those other players had to source theirs from somewhere as well - which when traced back to its inception falls into one of a, b, or c. Did I miss one?
Therefore any other exchange of currency, regardless of profit margin, is simply between players who came upon their currency by one of the above methods.
M
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Morlocke
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Posted - 2004.11.23 21:50:00 -
[286]
Originally by: J'Maybe Keens
i recently wrote an article on Eve Guardian, basically it is a simple isk flow model within Eve.
It has caused some argument.
The basic problem being, it says no ISK at all is introduced into EVE by player to player transactions. Only by Player, NPC interaction can isk be introduced or removed from the the "visible economy".
The visible economy being the stuff we can actually see within the game.
Anyway, there seems to be plenty of people prepared to argue I am wrong.
For full details of how proving me wrong can earn you 10million isk read the article and have a look at the competition details.
The article is at EVE Guardian
No, I think you're quite right. The only source of currency - with the exception of bugs or exploits - is (a) NPC bounties, (b) sale of goods to NPCs, and (c) insurance payment by NPCs. Some may argue (d) received from other players, but those other players had to source theirs from somewhere as well - which when traced back to its inception falls into one of a, b, or c. Did I miss one?
Therefore any other exchange of currency, regardless of profit margin, is simply between players who came upon their currency by one of the above methods.
M
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.12.28 00:42:00 -
[287]
yep its obvious, isk (monetary value) is created in three ways: getting rewards from npcs bounty, getting reward from agent, selling minerals to npcs...
isksinks is only losing a ship/modules (its mineral value) thats why tech 2 isnt really isk sinks, it simply put isks from one pocket to another (player) pocket, losing tech 2 ship isnt isk sink (in general term) as you lose only minerals + components (nps buy price), your 16m+ isk isnt lost (sinked) as its in builder (player) pocket, it would be quite diffrent if it would be only npc driven (with player prices) than it would be isk sink...
(hmmm why i wroted this? it is late.. maybe thats why...)
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Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.12.28 00:42:00 -
[288]
yep its obvious, isk (monetary value) is created in three ways: getting rewards from npcs bounty, getting reward from agent, selling minerals to npcs...
isksinks is only losing a ship/modules (its mineral value) thats why tech 2 isnt really isk sinks, it simply put isks from one pocket to another (player) pocket, losing tech 2 ship isnt isk sink (in general term) as you lose only minerals + components (nps buy price), your 16m+ isk isnt lost (sinked) as its in builder (player) pocket, it would be quite diffrent if it would be only npc driven (with player prices) than it would be isk sink...
(hmmm why i wroted this? it is late.. maybe thats why...)
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Dofri
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Posted - 2004.12.28 01:37:00 -
[289]
well, i didnt read all the posts here but isk CAN be introduced without npc¦s.
I create PlayerA, playerA has 1k isk to start with, i give this 1000 isk to poor lil dofri and delete PlayerA.
Now i didnt make loads of isk but i managed to create isk anyways 
(that worth 10mil??)
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Dofri
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Posted - 2004.12.28 01:37:00 -
[290]
well, i didnt read all the posts here but isk CAN be introduced without npc¦s.
I create PlayerA, playerA has 1k isk to start with, i give this 1000 isk to poor lil dofri and delete PlayerA.
Now i didnt make loads of isk but i managed to create isk anyways
(that worth 10mil??)
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Stregone
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Posted - 2004.12.28 18:40:00 -
[291]
What is being asked for is effectivly an economic over-unity machine. In real life this would cause money to be worthless and the economy would collapse. In a game it would be a bug that needs to be fixed.
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Stregone
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Posted - 2004.12.28 18:40:00 -
[292]
What is being asked for is effectivly an economic over-unity machine. In real life this would cause money to be worthless and the economy would collapse. In a game it would be a bug that needs to be fixed.
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Ulfar
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Posted - 2004.12.28 21:35:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Ulfar on 28/12/2004 21:35:32
The amount of money in the economy from player interaction is fixed just as in real life the amount of money in the global economy is fixed at any one time.
In eve the NPC's can be likened to a countries bank in that they are the only way to introduce more money. This is happens if they print more money than is taken out of circulation.
The reason real life countries banks don't do this is that the currency value would decrease compared to other currencies.
What this means for Eve is that there is a steady increase in money into the economy from NPC's that has to be balanced with money sinks. I think so far they have it about right as if they had it wrong you would get rampant inflation/deflation.
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Ulfar
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Posted - 2004.12.28 21:35:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Ulfar on 28/12/2004 21:35:32
The amount of money in the economy from player interaction is fixed just as in real life the amount of money in the global economy is fixed at any one time.
In eve the NPC's can be likened to a countries bank in that they are the only way to introduce more money. This is happens if they print more money than is taken out of circulation.
The reason real life countries banks don't do this is that the currency value would decrease compared to other currencies.
What this means for Eve is that there is a steady increase in money into the economy from NPC's that has to be balanced with money sinks. I think so far they have it about right as if they had it wrong you would get rampant inflation/deflation.
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Dofri
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Posted - 2004.12.29 00:34:00 -
[295]
hmmm well
English is not my primary language and i didnt really understand some of the things u just wrote, but i guess it means no isk for poor dofri
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Dofri
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Posted - 2004.12.29 00:34:00 -
[296]
hmmm well
English is not my primary language and i didnt really understand some of the things u just wrote, but i guess it means no isk for poor dofri
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:00:00 -
[297]
Back in the old days, you could take isk out of your wallet and put it into your ship, then into a can. If you blow up the can, then the isk would be taken away, therefore through player v player reactions, the isk has disappeared.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:00:00 -
[298]
Back in the old days, you could take isk out of your wallet and put it into your ship, then into a can. If you blow up the can, then the isk would be taken away, therefore through player v player reactions, the isk has disappeared.
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Shocky
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:31:00 -
[299]
Mine roids, sell minerals to other players.. Isk generated by player trade. Can I have my 10mil now?
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Shocky
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:31:00 -
[300]
Mine roids, sell minerals to other players.. Isk generated by player trade. Can I have my 10mil now?
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