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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:16:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
like I wrote, you have the drawback of playing an other peoples char you cant identify with. At least it's the barrier for me to buy a char besides of the lost ambition of growing an own one, with all the enjoyment of using new ships, weapons or abilities.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:22:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
I can only play with one char at a time no matter how many I own.
And how come being able to buy isk now is not causing a problem with a "hole" in low isk chars, but a "hole" in low sp chars would be bad?
I think we're getting even closer to the actual real answer. I can almost taste it.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
like I wrote, you have the drawback of playing an other peoples char you cant identify with. At least it's the barrier for me to buy a char besides of the lost ambition of growing an own one, with all the enjoyment of using new ships, weapons or abilities.
I've sold plenty of characters and I don't care what they do with them or what this mythical "identity" is. This is an RPG issue, not an sp issue. Enjoyment of growing your own character is subjective, you shouldn't be using what you think I should enjoy as a reason to legislate against me. That's not an sp argument either.
There's a reason why veterans want you to buy farmed or defunct characters and not a character of your choosing, and I am so sure we're so close to the answer now I'm almost wetting myself.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:29:00 -
[64]
mh actually I dont care.
There are enough reasons for not allowing that and I hope they will never open SP trading.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
I can only play with one char at a time no matter how many I own.
And how come being able to buy isk now is not causing a problem with a "hole" in low isk chars, but a "hole" in low sp chars would be bad?
I think we're getting even closer to the actual real answer. I can almost taste it.
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.09.01 15:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
OK, let's try the other way around:
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char: why implement a new feature and waste Dev time if there is an equally good solution readyly aviable? What is it that keeps you from using the aviable mechanic and makes you demanding to buy SP?
We're so close to you figuring it out all by yourself, that I'm.....no, I can't post that. 
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
Oh goody! Looksy here, we've arrived at "It's ok to sell what is in massive over surplus, but it's not ok to [what?]"!
Keep it up! We're so close to you finally getting it off your chest!
Go on!
Say it!
Just say the words!
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
Oh goody! Looksy here, we've arrived at "It's ok to sell what is in massive over surplus, but it's not ok to [what?]"!
Keep it up! We're so close to you finally getting it off your chest!
Go on!
Say it!
i dont get the meaning from that quoted sentence of you, but let me put it clearly AGAIN:
it is ok to buy something from other players that allready is in the game.
it is not ok to buy something that upon the buy process is actually being generated into the game.
Just say the words!
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:33:00 -
[70]
Is there a reason this guy hasn't been banned for promoting the sale of ISK?
Just pointing that out.
Oh and OP your an idiot for coming up with such a stupid idea.
If you can't learn to play the game like everyone else... then you should...
GB2WOW 
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.09.01 16:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
I shall leave you to look stupid. Have fun.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:13:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
I shall leave you to look stupid. Have fun.
Well at least now you're half right.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Massive quote fail....
Just say the words!
It's ok to buy sp from CCP at this rate, and this rate only because.................... ................ come on... say the words.....
DO IT!
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Karan SaJet
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:34:00 -
[74]
I have seen a lot of games die because of this.
Best thing about eve is it is a tought game and a lot of patience is reqired, las thing we want it to make it end up like wow.
And CCP dont even think of doing anything like this for it will be the games death, think of it like the sory of the hen that lays golden eggs, let it be and you will have a steady cash flow assure in the long run, kill the hen implement this and you might get good income but it wont last long eventualy it will kill the game.
NO
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:17:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Massive quote fail....
Just say the words!
It's ok to buy sp from CCP at this rate, and this rate only because.................... ................ come on... say the words.....
DO IT!
is this still a serious debate ?
$$ -> Existing Items change ownership == OK !
$$ -> New Items generated == NOT OK !
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Earl Comstock
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:48:00 -
[76]
Dang. I'd be happy if they'd just bump the skill queue to 7d from 1d.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:09:00 -
[77]
420m SP total
4m SP per 60d
$34.99 per 60d
$3673 for a maxed skilld char.
This idea is just wrong on so many levels.
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:15:00 -
[78]
/me salutes everything Iamanoobandyousuck has said
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 08:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
is this still a serious debate ?
$$ -> Existing Items change ownership == OK !
$$ -> New Items generated == NOT OK !
Because?
I don't think you're going to say it are you?
Ah well.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 08:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Earl Comstock
Dang. I'd be happy if they'd just bump the skill queue to 7d from 1d.
I'm all out of 6 hour skills to train. I'd chop my 24 hours in for ghost training Any Day Of The Week.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 09:01:00 -
[81]
Look, it's real simple, even an Eve Veteran can stick his fingers in his ears and go "la la la la it's not true it's not true It's Not TRUE!"
You don't control the number of people playing Eve, you don't control whether they sell a character or not. Not even CCP can control it. Your notions that somehow character sp is a sacred Ox that cannot be touched is pure jealousy, you don't want somebody else getting something you wish you'd had.
Some don't want their character farming business ISK source touching. Others like the Million sp Per Month The Character has been alive. Boo hoo, a one year old with two years worth of sp, THIS WILL END EVE boo hoo.
Nobody is prepared to say the secret why they don't want people to be able to buy sp for cash, and CCP don't want to say the secret that if you want to play Eve, you've got to play eve for at least a year before you get at the good stuff (notwithstanding whatever nonsense you come out with about Rifters and 2 day olds having fun).
Whatever sensible reason there might be that Veteran's ****ING LOVE! selling characters to newbies but ****ING HATE! the idea that CCP could, they're not saying, they're hiding behind nonsense.
It would make absolutely no difference to anybody EXCEPT veterans if I had 4x sp gain because I paid four times.
I wouldn't be buying a Veteran's farmed character, and he wouldn't getting my ISK. That's the only difference you'd notice. The only one. The. Only. Difference. And unless you happen to own the character you wouldn't even notice that.
Now why would anybody care about gaining ISK for chars, when you can trade PLEX for chars? Dunno.
MAYBE THEY'RE BEING FARMED AND SOLD ON EBAY FOR RL CASH! Maybe that's the reason they're so damm protective of the only asset in Eve that has an exceptionally fixed price. Gee? No? Really?
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2009.09.02 09:17:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Look, it's real simple, even an Eve Veteran can stick his fingers in his ears and go "la la la la it's not true it's not true It's Not TRUE!"
You don't control the number of people playing Eve, you don't control whether they sell a character or not. Not even CCP can control it. Your notions that somehow character sp is a sacred Ox that cannot be touched is pure jealousy, you don't want somebody else getting something you wish you'd had.
Some don't want their character farming business ISK source touching. Others like the Million sp Per Month The Character has been alive. Boo hoo, a one year old with two years worth of sp, THIS WILL END EVE boo hoo.
Nobody is prepared to say the secret why they don't want people to be able to buy sp for cash, and CCP don't want to say the secret that if you want to play Eve, you've got to play eve for at least a year before you get at the good stuff (notwithstanding whatever nonsense you come out with about Rifters and 2 day olds having fun).
Whatever sensible reason there might be that Veteran's ****ING LOVE! selling characters to newbies but ****ING HATE! the idea that CCP could, they're not saying, they're hiding behind nonsense.
It would make absolutely no difference to anybody EXCEPT veterans if I had 4x sp gain because I paid four times.
I wouldn't be buying a Veteran's farmed character, and he wouldn't getting my ISK. That's the only difference you'd notice. The only one. The. Only. Difference. And unless you happen to own the character you wouldn't even notice that.
Now why would anybody care about gaining ISK for chars, when you can trade PLEX for chars? Dunno.
MAYBE THEY'RE BEING FARMED AND SOLD ON EBAY FOR RL CASH! Maybe that's the reason they're so damm protective of the only asset in Eve that has an exceptionally fixed price. Gee? No? Really?
omg lol, you fail at so many instances. like at understanding the game and at reading what people told you over and over in this topic, or like maybe you just fail at understanding it. you also fail at better letting a topic die silently instead of making even more of a fool out of yourself.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2009.09.02 09:38:00 -
[83]
isn't it enough that you can already buy a charecter fully skilled and buy all the items ingame?
if it was up too me i would totally remove any kind of rl cash transfered to isk. and any kind of charecter trading..
there is a reason that there are NO other games allowing this, and it is so obvious, if you can't follow it, i am not even gonna bother trying to smack it into your brain since you have long gone been lost and no way too save your logical sense...
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:27:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Heroldyn
omg lol, you fail at so many instances.
Yes I get that a lot. But not by anybody who then goes on to make a point, in English, with real words making a realistic point. It's usually followed by txt spk goin omfg lol u dont get nuffn lol itsobvious init coz evbdy sez so lol.
But if anybody wants to make an actual point that actually makes sense I'll read. So far it's just been one weak point after another, with not a single soul wanting to explain an actual genuine, plausible reason why they have a vested interest in keeping the perceived rarity of Skill Points solely tradable by third parties, and not CCP.
Just saying "nothing is created when you sell ISK" is a nonsense, because they're implying that the players are in control of Eve's ISK supply. Which they're not. CCP are.
I jst blu ur mind wide opn dint i?
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
I jst blu ur mind wide opn dint i?
no.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
isn't it enough that you can already buy a charecter fully skilled and buy all the items ingame?
if it was up too me i would totally remove any kind of rl cash transfered to isk. and any kind of charecter trading..
there is a reason that there are NO other games allowing this, and it is so obvious, if you can't follow it, i am not even gonna bother trying to smack it into your brain since you have long gone been lost and no way too save your logical sense...
Removal of all character trading, good good, sounds like we're getting somewhere... and then oh no here we go again.. "if you don't get it I have absolutely no way of expressing it because I don't get it either, but I like to be on the "winning" side of an arguement then I'm not going to waste my time explaining it, but I will waste my time explaining that I won't waste my time"
I've never really understood that particularly ridiculous "arguement". It's quite quite comical.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:42:00 -
[87]
Tiny Tove, all you ever reply to any arguments people throw at you is that they are weak or somehow dont count without ever explaining why.
You youself dont provide any arguments at all why buying skillpoints would benefit the game.
And then you end your post with some weired sentence that should supposly make you sound clever like:
"oh.. i can feel it alllready, say it, say it".
in my previous posts i have pointet out the differnce between value being generated and exisiting value changing hands. you seem to deny that this matters, but you dont explain why you think so. all you said is "because ccp does control isk". this doesnt make sense to me. maybe you could explain in some more detail.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:30:00 -
[88]
the inflation of SP by generating it via money seems to be a little hard to understand for that tiny dude... Actually I dont like feeding trolls but... whatever.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Tiny Tove, all you ever reply to any arguments people throw at you is that they are weak or somehow dont count without ever explaining why.
I frequently point out why, choosing not to read it is not my problem. Knee jerk hitting reply and typing the same countered bandwagon nonsense, yes that's a problem because it perpetuates falsehoods.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
You youself dont provide any arguments at all why buying skillpoints would benefit the game.
Maybe because that's not a claim I made. But I could. And I could justify it.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
And then you end your post with some weired sentence that should supposly make you sound clever like:
"oh.. i can feel it alllready, say it, say it".
Do you see the replies to me that are basically trolls as "clever" or do you hold people on your bandwagon up to a different standard?
If people won't say what they mean, and they won't say something sensible, plausible and justified, they should not even be replying.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
in my previous posts i have pointet out the differnce between value being generated and exisiting value changing hands. you seem to deny that this matters, but you dont explain why you think so. all you said is "because ccp does control isk". this doesnt make sense to me. maybe you could explain in some more detail.
It's real simple. So simple even you can ignore it.
If in any one year 1000 characters are traded, 1000 benefits went to Eve Veterans, and 1000x 20 euro went to CCP to develop Eve. (Plus whatever was spent on PLEX to afford the ISK)
Eve Veterans have now determined this is good, and WELL THEY MIGHT!
Instead, had 1000 new characters been created and paid for, then Eve Veterans crywhined because 1000 characters they had been carefully farming, or no longer wanted because their "other main" got outed, whatever, no longer got an ISK gain for them, and CCP gain 1000x 300? Euro to develop Eve, and 1000 characters went defunct.
The number of players remains the same, and the number of sp in play remains the same, but it's far too complicated, try not to think about it.
Just stating that sp is being created is rubbish. It's a popular soundbyte, one person said it, and everybody else saw it as a plausible bandwagon winner without stopping and thinking. Just rampant flooding nonsense ensues.
But again, got anything credible that stands up to sixty seconds of rational thought, and I'm all ears. Protectionism and bandwagons, no not really, they're weak and easily thought around.
I have read it. I didn't think that you actually wanted me to point out the "creating skillpoints" is actually fundamentally nonsense, since it would be, what's that thing called? Self Evident. What I mean is the notion that buying sp of CCP creates a skillpoint surplus in Eve is nonsense. It doesn't and it won't.
The amount of isk and Brutix's (and those skillpoints you think that are far too abundant) and Armageddons sat around in redundant and defunct accounts pretty much denies the whole arguement, but it's not really something that anybody is prepared to accept. There is far too much vested interest in the fixed price of sp on ebay / character bazaar.
There is too much fear that somebody who has only been playing Eve for six months might be allowed to fly a HAC with good skills without handing over a few hundred dollars in PLEX, and then a few billion ISK to a veteran for the priviledge.
So it's No Big Surprise that buying sp directly from CCP causes Eve's Veterans to cry and whine so damm hard. Cutting them out of a sweet sweet deal where they get to play whatever they like and then sell it for a profit and then play for free, and in many cases train a whole new character for free, yes I can see why they would want strong protection for it.
And if they get to dump on non veterans at the same time.... all the sweeter.
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Comodore John
Gallente
QunSegh
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Posted - 2009.09.02 21:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
good job, now you just destroyed the people who collect corpses business and those who have huge stockpiles of corpses (mines only at 65 last count :( ) now have the ability to get large amounts of sp.
the potential SP gain from 0.0 corpses would be insane also. or you could pod yourself, then let a friend take your corpse, they then get to have some of your skills, keep doing this with your updated clone and hell have the same skills as you
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