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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:31:00 -
[1]
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash, so please don't immediately flame. There may be some win-win for CCP and the player base, so I thought I would open the topic for discussion. I'm sure someone is aware of obvious negatives brought up in ancient or recurring discussions. If so, I'd like to hear the historical perspective of this topic, if any. BTW, I would not pay cash for SP if it was available.
1) SP can be viewed as a cost = the monthly fee times the length of time to train the skill. For example, Battleships 4 to 5 takes about 40 days for my toon considering implants/skills, so it would cost very roughly (1.5 X $15) = $21.50 or equivalent Euros.
2) Noobs will not benefit from instant "pay for SP" due to learning curve. It's equivalent to botting your way to max level, you won't know how to play even though you have max skills. And as we all know, the EVE School of Hard Knocks is not nice.
3) Experienced players who do know how to play will be spared the lengthy time of skills training if they want to pay cash. This would be particularly nice for use with developing alts.
4) CCP could get a boat load of cash up front, and not have to wait for subs. Most EVE fans will continue to play and pay anyway due to the many qualities of this game, like it's complexity, "lose it all" PvP : all that stuff other games don't have that EVE fans like so much. This represents another "service" to generate cash on top of subs.
5) It's not like other games where you actually have to grind skills. So I don't see the argument that it would be unfair to grant instant skills to new players because the vets put in huge quantities of grinding. You pay your sub, and skill gains are automatic anyway. Paying for SP would only speed it up for anyone willing/able to fork over the cash.
6) This would also help players who made bad choices in skills training early on, got a clue, and need to re-tool.
7) It would help players entering new areas of the game. For example, I have the ISK for an Orca, and I know exactly what I want to do with an Orca, and have worked out my initial loadout. If I had the skills, I would immediately buy an Orca and start using it. But, I am months away from Orca skills. I'm sure many players are in a similar situation.
8) One possible negative is that it would create a mode of "instant gratification". For those who don't like this concept, you would not be obligated to buy SP, and can continue to use the skills system as is, and feel morally superior to those who buy their SP. As I said above, I am one who would not pay for SP, but it wouldn't bother me if others took advantage of such a concept.
9) Constraints could be placed, like you have earn LvL4 normally, then you can buy LvL 5, or any other constraints that seem fair to all.
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SCORPY
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: SCORPY on 25/08/2009 17:33:46
HAHA Powerleveling sold by CCP themselves, why didn't I think of that...
Though in all honesty I wish I could take all my SP and reassign them wherever I wanted. One can dream 
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Eveloution
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Eveloution on 25/08/2009 17:34:33
1)no
2)no
3)no
4)no
5)no
6)no
7)no
8)no
Buy implants and train like everyone else had to with time
----->door that way and don't let it hit you in your pod on the way out !!!!!!!!
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:37:00 -
[4]
Because of dust. 514 units.
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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:40:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Eveloution
Edited by: Eveloution on 25/08/2009 17:34:33
1)no
2)no
3)no
4)no
5)no
6)no
7)no
8)no
Buy implants and train like everyone else had to with time
----->door that way and don't let it hit you in your pod on the way out !!!!!!!!
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress.
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:42:00 -
[6]
Because people would leave in scores. You and the few others, that don't have better things to do with money than to burn it on a game you already pay for, buying skillpoints can't compensate for many more people feeling their invested time has value.
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Lorieen
AQ Militis Seprentia
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
9) Constraints could be placed, like you have earn LvL4 normally, then you can buy LvL 5, or any other constraints that seem fair to all.
I think it could work but my constraints would be a bit different.
Like you can buy sp for lvl 1 and lvl 2 of any desired skill but lvls 3-5 have to be trained normally. Costs would be rank 1 skill 1 billion for lvl 1 and 2 billion for lvl 2 and for all other rank skills the costs get multiplied againt the rank of the skill and the base cost.
Lets just call that plan pre-nerfing. 
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Nol Agnot
Nightwatch Immortal
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:48:00 -
[8]
You fail to acknowledge that one of the strengths of EVE is the limited grind it presents.
Adding SP sales would open a can of worms where the everyone else is doing it thought would prevail, forcing the powergamers into the must luctrative isk per second occupancy. Trading isk for SP in the end and maxing out characters to sell onto others doing the same.
EVE would become grind hell.
Delenda est achura. |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:53:00 -
[9]
Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
[yellow]Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
http://support.eve-online.com/pages/pet |
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Eveloution
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:56:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash, so please don't immediately flame. There may be some win-win for CCP and the player base, so I thought I would open the topic for discussion. I'm sure someone is aware of obvious negatives brought up in ancient or recurring discussions. If so, I'd like to hear the historical perspective of this topic, if any. BTW, I would not pay cash for SP if it was available.
Hmm, good idea. We should also look at being able to pay cash for a easy button. Like when youre in a PVP fight, instead of fighting, just pay cash to CCP and they smite your opponent. Same thing with destroying POS. Pay cash to CCP, POS gone. Some more things you could buy from CCP:
-instant soveriegnty
-location and type of all exploration sites in a region
-all ore in a belt moved to your choice of station
-instant jumps of your freighter to jita and back
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lobster2b
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
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Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:26:00 -
[14]
limited it, say, if you have a char that was made 6 monthes ago, but you left for 2 months, so it only has 4 monthes of training done
you could pay to regain half of that time you wasnt playing, so in this case 1 month, that might be balancable..but then again, with all the chars that have been traded and sold over the life of this game, that might make it unworkable still
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |
Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:26:00 -
[15]
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Moved to Features and bad Ideas Discussion.
tyvm
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: lobster2b
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
So effectively 300M to train a level 5?
Yeah, that wouldn't lead to any kind of SP inflation?
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:31:00 -
[18]
I do not agree, for the usual reasons, but mainly the fact that some of us don't play the alt eve, don't have lots of money to burn. I like eve because I know that my training for fleet command is a goal that must be earned. If people can start paying extra to get that speedy goal, then everybody can specialize that much easier and those with the elite cert style skills suddenly means less since more people can fly the more advanced ships easier.
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lobster2b
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: lobster2b
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
So effectively 300M to train a level 5?
Yeah, that wouldn't lead to any kind of SP inflation?
Yeah, 30days of game time to pay for a 30 day+ skill to complete, no error in the logic there
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Izztyrr Maemtor
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:52:00 -
[20]
I think the ability to buy SP would be a cheapening and dumbing down of the game. I've only been here a few months. But I'm willing to climb the SP ladder. Just like those who have been here from day one.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:13:00 -
[21]
This is just about the stupidest idea I've seen in a long time.
And as I hang out in the assembly hall, that's saying something.
Buying skills. Good goddess. Why don't we just have everyone start out at level 5 in everything and seed the market like they do on SiSi - everything's 100 ISK.
No thank you. I may lose more ships than I pop (though considering I'm an industrialist, that's not hard to imagine) but I like Eve just fine the way it is.
--Vel
Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat. |
Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:25:00 -
[22]
Wait, I just came up with an even better refinement of this. Lets take SP from people who have a lot, and give it to people who dont, for cash to CCP of course. Its not fair that theyve gotten to play the game for longer, so this way other people can pay cash to CCP to close the gap. Those SP rich people dont need their SP and their titans, when their are poor SP people who cant even use a HAC.
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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
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OrcephDrake
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:54:00 -
[24]
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 25/08/2009 19:54:54
YAY! I can finially just pay for all my s*** cuz i am a fraking rish ass bastard and I like bawls! I also like be ahead of every charactor in the game and only being a few months old AND i dont even have to be Koren to do it! Just beg momy for her credit card! Cuz that is real skill in this game getting momys card! ^_^
Sorry mr Urgg if they implemented one of those ideas i would quite EvE. U say in the start that those ideas aren't yours and you wouldn't even do them and so WHY the frak did u post them? Too see lost of random people post about how dumb it is? Hell why am i posting all i am doing is giving u a not so friendly bumb. LAME! I hope you r proud of yourself! U successfully made an ass out of everyone here.. on the interweb... hip hip hurry for u! I mail u a cookie!
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:56:00 -
[25]
I am a person who comes to Eve from the other side of gaming, FPS & RTS. I have never really been down with the whole SP thing to start with. Me saying "I think we should all have level 5 skills and leave it up to the intelligence and wit of the person controlling the character" - probably ruffles some serious feathers from those of you who come from games like world of warcraft and such. I am personally a big fan of games that pit person against person, with no stacked advantages. I think it would be great if the entire insurance system was erased, and everyone could fly what they could buy.
Now dont get me wrong, I dont want to change the game you all love. I am just saying if there were ever another version of Eve that worked that way, I would drop this version for it in a heartbeat.
Now I do not like the idea that someone who would be willing to dump a lot of money into SP could join tomorrow and be further along in SP than I am. However to say that Eve would turn into Titans and carriers online... yeah probably for a week or two, but the economy would have some very interesting impacts as these ships quickly made their conversion into rigs.
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Cayell
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Buying ISK is legal
Check your facts.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cayell
Check your facts.
Check out the timecode bizarre...
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Bruno George
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:25:00 -
[28]
Ok everyone relax.....
To the op you can already buy sp you silly silly bunny. Here is how you do it, you take a credit card and buy a whole lot of game time cards. You take those game time cards and go to the timecode bazaar. Sell your GTC and hopefully you have like 5 billion ISK. You take that 5 billion ISK and head to the character bazaar. You buy a nice solid toon.
Voila, voila, oohhh ya, very nice.
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Quixess
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:27:00 -
[29]
1. Sell time codes for Isk.
2. Buy a high SP character in the Bazaar.
3......
4. Profit?
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Nub Sauce
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:47:00 -
[30]
The OP idea would completely ruin EVE and all it stands for. I would quit the game immediately.
The fact that there's a skill point difference between noobs and someone who's been around is the whole point. Same with there being a difference between a 1 year old char and a 5 year old one. There SHOULD be a difference, and a big one at that.
The secondary point is that EVE isn't about grinding. It's about playing smart. I can make loads of ISK in about 30 mins to an hour a day. (The market is alive and well, that's all I'll say about that.)
The rest of my time can be spent doing fun things that aren't necessarily making me ISK. If EVE was turned into an ISK grind, or a mechanism was implemented where people could pay RL cash for SP... it would ruin eve with one blow.
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