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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:31:00 -
[1]
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash, so please don't immediately flame. There may be some win-win for CCP and the player base, so I thought I would open the topic for discussion. I'm sure someone is aware of obvious negatives brought up in ancient or recurring discussions. If so, I'd like to hear the historical perspective of this topic, if any. BTW, I would not pay cash for SP if it was available.
1) SP can be viewed as a cost = the monthly fee times the length of time to train the skill. For example, Battleships 4 to 5 takes about 40 days for my toon considering implants/skills, so it would cost very roughly (1.5 X $15) = $21.50 or equivalent Euros.
2) Noobs will not benefit from instant "pay for SP" due to learning curve. It's equivalent to botting your way to max level, you won't know how to play even though you have max skills. And as we all know, the EVE School of Hard Knocks is not nice.
3) Experienced players who do know how to play will be spared the lengthy time of skills training if they want to pay cash. This would be particularly nice for use with developing alts.
4) CCP could get a boat load of cash up front, and not have to wait for subs. Most EVE fans will continue to play and pay anyway due to the many qualities of this game, like it's complexity, "lose it all" PvP : all that stuff other games don't have that EVE fans like so much. This represents another "service" to generate cash on top of subs.
5) It's not like other games where you actually have to grind skills. So I don't see the argument that it would be unfair to grant instant skills to new players because the vets put in huge quantities of grinding. You pay your sub, and skill gains are automatic anyway. Paying for SP would only speed it up for anyone willing/able to fork over the cash.
6) This would also help players who made bad choices in skills training early on, got a clue, and need to re-tool.
7) It would help players entering new areas of the game. For example, I have the ISK for an Orca, and I know exactly what I want to do with an Orca, and have worked out my initial loadout. If I had the skills, I would immediately buy an Orca and start using it. But, I am months away from Orca skills. I'm sure many players are in a similar situation.
8) One possible negative is that it would create a mode of "instant gratification". For those who don't like this concept, you would not be obligated to buy SP, and can continue to use the skills system as is, and feel morally superior to those who buy their SP. As I said above, I am one who would not pay for SP, but it wouldn't bother me if others took advantage of such a concept.
9) Constraints could be placed, like you have earn LvL4 normally, then you can buy LvL 5, or any other constraints that seem fair to all.
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SCORPY
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: SCORPY on 25/08/2009 17:33:46
HAHA Powerleveling sold by CCP themselves, why didn't I think of that...
Though in all honesty I wish I could take all my SP and reassign them wherever I wanted. One can dream 
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Eveloution
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Eveloution on 25/08/2009 17:34:33
1)no
2)no
3)no
4)no
5)no
6)no
7)no
8)no
Buy implants and train like everyone else had to with time
----->door that way and don't let it hit you in your pod on the way out !!!!!!!!
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:37:00 -
[4]
Because of dust. 514 units.
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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:40:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Eveloution
Edited by: Eveloution on 25/08/2009 17:34:33
1)no
2)no
3)no
4)no
5)no
6)no
7)no
8)no
Buy implants and train like everyone else had to with time
----->door that way and don't let it hit you in your pod on the way out !!!!!!!!
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress.
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:42:00 -
[6]
Because people would leave in scores. You and the few others, that don't have better things to do with money than to burn it on a game you already pay for, buying skillpoints can't compensate for many more people feeling their invested time has value.
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Lorieen
AQ Militis Seprentia
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
9) Constraints could be placed, like you have earn LvL4 normally, then you can buy LvL 5, or any other constraints that seem fair to all.
I think it could work but my constraints would be a bit different.
Like you can buy sp for lvl 1 and lvl 2 of any desired skill but lvls 3-5 have to be trained normally. Costs would be rank 1 skill 1 billion for lvl 1 and 2 billion for lvl 2 and for all other rank skills the costs get multiplied againt the rank of the skill and the base cost.
Lets just call that plan pre-nerfing. 
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Nol Agnot
Nightwatch Immortal
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:48:00 -
[8]
You fail to acknowledge that one of the strengths of EVE is the limited grind it presents.
Adding SP sales would open a can of worms where the everyone else is doing it thought would prevail, forcing the powergamers into the must luctrative isk per second occupancy. Trading isk for SP in the end and maxing out characters to sell onto others doing the same.
EVE would become grind hell.
Delenda est achura. |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:53:00 -
[9]
Moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.
[yellow]Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
http://support.eve-online.com/pages/pet |
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Eveloution
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:56:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This.
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash, so please don't immediately flame. There may be some win-win for CCP and the player base, so I thought I would open the topic for discussion. I'm sure someone is aware of obvious negatives brought up in ancient or recurring discussions. If so, I'd like to hear the historical perspective of this topic, if any. BTW, I would not pay cash for SP if it was available.
Hmm, good idea. We should also look at being able to pay cash for a easy button. Like when youre in a PVP fight, instead of fighting, just pay cash to CCP and they smite your opponent. Same thing with destroying POS. Pay cash to CCP, POS gone. Some more things you could buy from CCP:
-instant soveriegnty
-location and type of all exploration sites in a region
-all ore in a belt moved to your choice of station
-instant jumps of your freighter to jita and back
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lobster2b
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
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Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar
Mid Knights
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:26:00 -
[14]
limited it, say, if you have a char that was made 6 monthes ago, but you left for 2 months, so it only has 4 monthes of training done
you could pay to regain half of that time you wasnt playing, so in this case 1 month, that might be balancable..but then again, with all the chars that have been traded and sold over the life of this game, that might make it unworkable still
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |
Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:26:00 -
[15]
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Moved to Features and bad Ideas Discussion.
tyvm
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: lobster2b
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
So effectively 300M to train a level 5?
Yeah, that wouldn't lead to any kind of SP inflation?
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:31:00 -
[18]
I do not agree, for the usual reasons, but mainly the fact that some of us don't play the alt eve, don't have lots of money to burn. I like eve because I know that my training for fleet command is a goal that must be earned. If people can start paying extra to get that speedy goal, then everybody can specialize that much easier and those with the elite cert style skills suddenly means less since more people can fly the more advanced ships easier.
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lobster2b
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: lobster2b
Edited by: lobster2b on 25/08/2009 18:14:29
i would probably buy a few lvl 5`s, and i dont mind other buying aswell, as i know SP dont mean squat in a fight, just setup and louck.
To promote a idea with this, is that you need to fly to a station in high-sec that holds a special "treatment" senter witch once a month you could be "treated"
let us pay with plex.
make it go like: enter station, switch training to skill that`s going to be "treated", open "treatment" senter, select pay, box pops up are you really want to do this, it will cost x PLEX (Y/N), Yes: skill ends imidiatly and you continue your skilling, fly away and be happier.
Forgot to mention the once per month only, and only lvl 5 would be doable (need to skill lvl 4 by yourself)
And i dont think that letting ppl buy lvl 5, would eventyally crash the marked, or "Titan/Carrier online"
Fect is: everything cost isk, and evereybody loses at some point, and moore then others on a different point
So effectively 300M to train a level 5?
Yeah, that wouldn't lead to any kind of SP inflation?
Yeah, 30days of game time to pay for a 30 day+ skill to complete, no error in the logic there
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Izztyrr Maemtor
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:52:00 -
[20]
I think the ability to buy SP would be a cheapening and dumbing down of the game. I've only been here a few months. But I'm willing to climb the SP ladder. Just like those who have been here from day one.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:13:00 -
[21]
This is just about the stupidest idea I've seen in a long time.
And as I hang out in the assembly hall, that's saying something.
Buying skills. Good goddess. Why don't we just have everyone start out at level 5 in everything and seed the market like they do on SiSi - everything's 100 ISK.
No thank you. I may lose more ships than I pop (though considering I'm an industrialist, that's not hard to imagine) but I like Eve just fine the way it is.
--Vel
Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat. |
Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:25:00 -
[22]
Wait, I just came up with an even better refinement of this. Lets take SP from people who have a lot, and give it to people who dont, for cash to CCP of course. Its not fair that theyve gotten to play the game for longer, so this way other people can pay cash to CCP to close the gap. Those SP rich people dont need their SP and their titans, when their are poor SP people who cant even use a HAC.
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Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
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OrcephDrake
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:54:00 -
[24]
Edited by: OrcephDrake on 25/08/2009 19:54:54
YAY! I can finially just pay for all my s*** cuz i am a fraking rish ass bastard and I like bawls! I also like be ahead of every charactor in the game and only being a few months old AND i dont even have to be Koren to do it! Just beg momy for her credit card! Cuz that is real skill in this game getting momys card! ^_^
Sorry mr Urgg if they implemented one of those ideas i would quite EvE. U say in the start that those ideas aren't yours and you wouldn't even do them and so WHY the frak did u post them? Too see lost of random people post about how dumb it is? Hell why am i posting all i am doing is giving u a not so friendly bumb. LAME! I hope you r proud of yourself! U successfully made an ass out of everyone here.. on the interweb... hip hip hurry for u! I mail u a cookie!
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.08.25 19:56:00 -
[25]
I am a person who comes to Eve from the other side of gaming, FPS & RTS. I have never really been down with the whole SP thing to start with. Me saying "I think we should all have level 5 skills and leave it up to the intelligence and wit of the person controlling the character" - probably ruffles some serious feathers from those of you who come from games like world of warcraft and such. I am personally a big fan of games that pit person against person, with no stacked advantages. I think it would be great if the entire insurance system was erased, and everyone could fly what they could buy.
Now dont get me wrong, I dont want to change the game you all love. I am just saying if there were ever another version of Eve that worked that way, I would drop this version for it in a heartbeat.
Now I do not like the idea that someone who would be willing to dump a lot of money into SP could join tomorrow and be further along in SP than I am. However to say that Eve would turn into Titans and carriers online... yeah probably for a week or two, but the economy would have some very interesting impacts as these ships quickly made their conversion into rigs.
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Cayell
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Buying ISK is legal
Check your facts.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.08.25 20:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cayell
Check your facts.
Check out the timecode bizarre...
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Bruno George
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:25:00 -
[28]
Ok everyone relax.....
To the op you can already buy sp you silly silly bunny. Here is how you do it, you take a credit card and buy a whole lot of game time cards. You take those game time cards and go to the timecode bazaar. Sell your GTC and hopefully you have like 5 billion ISK. You take that 5 billion ISK and head to the character bazaar. You buy a nice solid toon.
Voila, voila, oohhh ya, very nice.
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Quixess
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:27:00 -
[29]
1. Sell time codes for Isk.
2. Buy a high SP character in the Bazaar.
3......
4. Profit?
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Nub Sauce
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Posted - 2009.08.25 23:47:00 -
[30]
The OP idea would completely ruin EVE and all it stands for. I would quit the game immediately.
The fact that there's a skill point difference between noobs and someone who's been around is the whole point. Same with there being a difference between a 1 year old char and a 5 year old one. There SHOULD be a difference, and a big one at that.
The secondary point is that EVE isn't about grinding. It's about playing smart. I can make loads of ISK in about 30 mins to an hour a day. (The market is alive and well, that's all I'll say about that.)
The rest of my time can be spent doing fun things that aren't necessarily making me ISK. If EVE was turned into an ISK grind, or a mechanism was implemented where people could pay RL cash for SP... it would ruin eve with one blow.
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Cayell
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:11:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Check out the timecode bizarre...
There are subtle but very real differences between outright buying ISK, and buying Timecodes to sell on for ISK, the biggest of which is that buying ISK pumps real-life money into people who ruin the game for everyone by ruining market prices, increasing server load (A LOT), and hacking accounts, whereas buying timecodes puts money into CCP's pocket, which is then used to improve the game.
The end result of RLM -> ISK may be the same in essence, but it's important not to start spreading the word that 'Buying ISK is legal' - particularly when CCP are in the middle of a huge ISK-seller crackdown. Semantics are important.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:19:00 -
[32]
You know you can go real money --> timecode --> isk ---> character if you want, effectively buying SP.
Buying SP on a pre-existing character directly would be hugely unbalancing. Think a little about why.
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Garthran
Gallente
CINDER INDUSTRIALS
United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This. Except mark me down for 3 years, not 4.
------------------------------------------------
Suicide drones?
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Lifelongnoob
Caldari
Final Conflict UK
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:30:00 -
[34]
i think ccp could introduce this but make it so u can only buy a one off 60 day double speed training card per character. This would help noobs get up to a level where they can have a reasonable chance at pvp (albeit in a fleet) and help ccp gain more new players that dont get frustrated cos they need at least 6 months of training just to have a hope a winning a fight.
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steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:52:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Buying ISK is legal - Y not SP ?
It's pretty simple actually. It is possible to break the rules and buy isk anyway, so CCP create a way to do it that is not as bad as buying it from an isk seller.
It's possible to break the rules and sell chars anyway, so CCP create a way to do it that is not as bad as buying it from hackers stealing accounts.
It is NOT possible to break the rules and instantly add SP to an already existing char, so there is no need for CCP to create a way to do it that is not as bad for the game.
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:58:00 -
[36]
ummm no? am i missing something?
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:14:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 26/08/2009 23:15:03
Yes, your premise is false. Just because buying isk doesn't break any laws judicially except maybe ironically in China, CCP frowns on it and it does break the terms of service you agreed to when you started up your game account.
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:18:00 -
[38]
I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.27 01:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ezevector
I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
This would be more plausible. Like buying an alt, but with a reduced cost and reduced training time.
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steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Markus Reese
Originally by: Ezevector
I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
This would be more plausible. Like buying an alt, but with a reduced cost and reduced training time.
Yeah, I'd support that. You get to train 2 characters at once (which you can do anyway by paying for a second account) at a reduced cost, however, you can only use one of them at a time, so there is still an incentive to get a second account instead.
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Mike Voidstar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:56:00 -
[41]
It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
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Destoya
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
I would lol
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mike Voidstar
It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
Sums it up.
To OP: as others have pointed out: you can already buy your SP. Buy a couple of GTC. Then watch the character bazaar and have a little patience. Sooner or later you will come across a char with skills to your liking and a name you won't have to be embarrassed. Problem solved.
|
Ezevector
|
Posted - 2009.08.28 19:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mike Voidstar
It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
Asian sweatshops don't have unlimited amounts of everything all the time. In fact, the harshest limitation they have, I would bet, is USD. They can throw cheap labor and bots around all they want, but they can't throw real money in bulk at everything and expect to come out on top.
If some Yankee can pay $5 to train his alt, whereas the Asian Sweatshop [tm] has to charge $7 for the same service, the sweatshop dies. That's capitalism. And this would actually be the case in EVE, since the sweatshop can't bot it's way into anything other than dragging skills into the queue.
The problem is, right now the reverse is often true. A person can make $15 an hour at his job or $5 million ISK playing EVE, so if he wants ISK, it's far more effective to get it through his real job than by grinding. That's the real reason ISK/Gold/Gil/whatever sales persist; they genuinely save you RL money if you look at it from the perspective of time spent, and oftentimes, getting money in an MMO is no more fun than working (particularly if you're trying to get large amounts).
PLEX is one of the better solutions I've seen, for numerous reasons. Granted, I think the ideal solution would be an overhaul of the entire MMO paradigm, but that's about as likely as me receiving $15million USD from the prince of Nigeria...
Incidentally, the easy-go aspect of ISK is half of the reason that PLEX hasn't been enough. The fact that one player can wander up in a suicide alt and blow up a billion ISK worth of stuff for no significant loss to himself is a lot of the reason people don't feel bad about buying isk for RLM; the way they see it, CCP is allowing gankers and griefers an unreasonably large amount of control over their game experience, so they're forcefully taking some of it back. No matter how many threads tell them "it's your fault for X reason," they're going to resent it, and if they don't quit from the loss or the subsequent taunting (half of which will be taunting about ragequitting), you can be sure they won't feel bad about trading with ISK-sellers after the EVE community willfully alienates them like that.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who went out and bought ISK halfway out of spite.
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James Vayne
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 05:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
Gotta agree with this dude. I'm only a month in myself and yes, waiting for the skills to get t2 stuff is a pain in the arse, but EVE would absolutely SUCK if people could just buy SP. SP is there to balance out the game. Being able to just buy SP would defeat the whole object of the game. You'd have hundreds of day old characters flying around in battleships showing off their e-peens and the whole thing would just be a joke.
I expect you've been pwned by someone better than you. Cry more. Buying SP will not happen.
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Sith LordX
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 10:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: xOm3gAx
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This.
IS SPARTAAAAAAA!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4aaZaBCS1s&videos=bvhgaLEQ2_4&playnext=5&playnext_from=TL THis will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJAukUvnEas&NR=1 You say THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rawbin Hood
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 10:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
◄Brutor►
The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count) |
James Vayne
|
Posted - 2009.08.29 11:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rawbin Hood
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
Yeah. Here, let me fix the thread title
Buying isk is illegal. Buying SP is a dumb idea.
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Ezevector
|
Posted - 2009.08.31 21:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rawbin Hood
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
Please, don't reply to stuff you haven't read.
This applies to everyone on God's green Earth, and it is as much for your sake as anyone's.
|
Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2009.08.31 22:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Destoya
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
I would lol
I'm glad my idea is starting to be taken seriously! Imagine how this would contribute to evil schemes and betrayals. Ganking noobs at a gatecamp isn't likely to get you any new skills that you don't already have, except possibly in the industrial category, but betraying, podding, and consuming your capital pilot CEO could give you several days worth of valuable skillpoints, especially if you're a noob. And even then, you'd have to fight with your fellow conspirators for the corpse!
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Mike C
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.08.31 22:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Mike C on 31/08/2009 22:26:30
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote:
Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative.
I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap.
the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills
No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk
market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead
why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game .
grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This. Except mark me down for 3 years, not 4.
EDIT 1/1:
Now let this thread fall into the never-ending depths of the forum (No more posts). [/thread]
__________________________________________________
Originally by: Mike C
Trolls - We keep Humanity alive... and kicking...
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 07:28:00 -
[52]
no, because a noob shouldnt get skills of a pro just by buying them.
Eve defines learning by time and experience, not farming and buying stuff.
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HeliosGal
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 10:37:00 -
[53]
wnat to buy isk then buy a PLEX and sell it ( money goes to ccp)
Buying isk direct ( illegal of course) also opens u up to keyloggers, account bannings, negative accounts etc.
SO do the right thing help ccp and enjoy
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 12:38:00 -
[54]
I wonder why buying a character is considered ok by the veterans, but buying sp (FROM CCP AND NOT A VETERAN) is considered bad.
Why would they care where a rich kid buys his sp from?
Hmmmm
Hmmmmmm..........
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 12:40:00 -
[55]
for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
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GuntiNDDS
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 12:44:00 -
[56]
yah they should implement that. 1sp for 5000 USD. let some rich guys waste some of their monies.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 13:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
What? Because he wants to choose his own name? That doesn't make sense. I doubt that is the reason that Veterans want you to buy your ISK from CCP and not third parties, but you have to buy your SP from third parties and not CCP.
No, I don't think that's it at all.
I think it's something else. There must be some reason why all those arguments against RMT get inverted for SP.
"Buying your ISK from CCP means more money to develop Eve". TRUE!
"Buying Your SP from CCP means more money to develop Eve!" NO! THIS IS WRONG!
"Buying your ISK from third parties means you get hacked!" TRUE!
"Buying you sp from third parties means you get hacked!" FALSE! DO IT! IT'S BEST!
There must be a reason... but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
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Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 13:46:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 01/09/2009 13:47:03
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Robert Caldera
for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
What? Because he wants to choose his own name?
yes. Name, portrait, skills...
Originally by: Tiny Tove
There must be a reason... but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
Char name + skills = identity.
Where you buy a skilled char you cant give it your identity like for an own grown char, this is a serious drawback which prevents me and many other people from play other peoples char effectively.
Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 13:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 14:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
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Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 14:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
like I wrote, you have the drawback of playing an other peoples char you cant identify with. At least it's the barrier for me to buy a char besides of the lost ambition of growing an own one, with all the enjoyment of using new ships, weapons or abilities.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 14:22:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
I can only play with one char at a time no matter how many I own.
And how come being able to buy isk now is not causing a problem with a "hole" in low isk chars, but a "hole" in low sp chars would be bad?
I think we're getting even closer to the actual real answer. I can almost taste it.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 14:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
like I wrote, you have the drawback of playing an other peoples char you cant identify with. At least it's the barrier for me to buy a char besides of the lost ambition of growing an own one, with all the enjoyment of using new ships, weapons or abilities.
I've sold plenty of characters and I don't care what they do with them or what this mythical "identity" is. This is an RPG issue, not an sp issue. Enjoyment of growing your own character is subjective, you shouldn't be using what you think I should enjoy as a reason to legislate against me. That's not an sp argument either.
There's a reason why veterans want you to buy farmed or defunct characters and not a character of your choosing, and I am so sure we're so close to the answer now I'm almost wetting myself.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:29:00 -
[64]
mh actually I dont care.
There are enough reasons for not allowing that and I hope they will never open SP trading.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 15:22:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
I can only play with one char at a time no matter how many I own.
And how come being able to buy isk now is not causing a problem with a "hole" in low isk chars, but a "hole" in low sp chars would be bad?
I think we're getting even closer to the actual real answer. I can almost taste it.
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
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Nika Dekaia
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 15:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
OK, let's try the other way around:
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char: why implement a new feature and waste Dev time if there is an equally good solution readyly aviable? What is it that keeps you from using the aviable mechanic and makes you demanding to buy SP?
We're so close to you figuring it out all by yourself, that I'm.....no, I can't post that. 
|
Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 16:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
Oh goody! Looksy here, we've arrived at "It's ok to sell what is in massive over surplus, but it's not ok to [what?]"!
Keep it up! We're so close to you finally getting it off your chest!
Go on!
Say it!
Just say the words!
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 16:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 16:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
again, you fail to grasp the differnce of -generating- something and having something that allready exists change hands. the isk from selling plexes allready exists. it only changes the owner. it is not artificially generated.
maybe a solution that could work for buying sp is that players would be able to subtract sp from their characters and put that subtracted sp as items on the market
Oh goody! Looksy here, we've arrived at "It's ok to sell what is in massive over surplus, but it's not ok to [what?]"!
Keep it up! We're so close to you finally getting it off your chest!
Go on!
Say it!
i dont get the meaning from that quoted sentence of you, but let me put it clearly AGAIN:
it is ok to buy something from other players that allready is in the game.
it is not ok to buy something that upon the buy process is actually being generated into the game.
Just say the words!
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 16:33:00 -
[70]
Is there a reason this guy hasn't been banned for promoting the sale of ISK?
Just pointing that out.
Oh and OP your an idiot for coming up with such a stupid idea.
If you can't learn to play the game like everyone else... then you should...
GB2WOW 
=========================
CEO of Shadow Cadre
http://www.shadowcadre.com
========================= |
Nika Dekaia
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 16:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
I shall leave you to look stupid. Have fun.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 17:13:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If there is - as you say - no difference between buying SP and buying a char:
Err no. That's the opposite of what I said. Nice try though.
I shall leave you to look stupid. Have fun.
Well at least now you're half right.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 17:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Massive quote fail....
Just say the words!
It's ok to buy sp from CCP at this rate, and this rate only because.................... ................ come on... say the words.....
DO IT!
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Karan SaJet
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 17:34:00 -
[74]
I have seen a lot of games die because of this.
Best thing about eve is it is a tought game and a lot of patience is reqired, las thing we want it to make it end up like wow.
And CCP dont even think of doing anything like this for it will be the games death, think of it like the sory of the hen that lays golden eggs, let it be and you will have a steady cash flow assure in the long run, kill the hen implement this and you might get good income but it wont last long eventualy it will kill the game.
NO
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 18:17:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Massive quote fail....
Just say the words!
It's ok to buy sp from CCP at this rate, and this rate only because.................... ................ come on... say the words.....
DO IT!
is this still a serious debate ?
$$ -> Existing Items change ownership == OK !
$$ -> New Items generated == NOT OK !
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Earl Comstock
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 18:48:00 -
[76]
Dang. I'd be happy if they'd just bump the skill queue to 7d from 1d.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 19:09:00 -
[77]
420m SP total
4m SP per 60d
$34.99 per 60d
$3673 for a maxed skilld char.
This idea is just wrong on so many levels.
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Ezevector
|
Posted - 2009.09.01 19:15:00 -
[78]
/me salutes everything Iamanoobandyousuck has said
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 08:48:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
is this still a serious debate ?
$$ -> Existing Items change ownership == OK !
$$ -> New Items generated == NOT OK !
Because?
I don't think you're going to say it are you?
Ah well.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 08:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Earl Comstock
Dang. I'd be happy if they'd just bump the skill queue to 7d from 1d.
I'm all out of 6 hour skills to train. I'd chop my 24 hours in for ghost training Any Day Of The Week.
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Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 09:01:00 -
[81]
Look, it's real simple, even an Eve Veteran can stick his fingers in his ears and go "la la la la it's not true it's not true It's Not TRUE!"
You don't control the number of people playing Eve, you don't control whether they sell a character or not. Not even CCP can control it. Your notions that somehow character sp is a sacred Ox that cannot be touched is pure jealousy, you don't want somebody else getting something you wish you'd had.
Some don't want their character farming business ISK source touching. Others like the Million sp Per Month The Character has been alive. Boo hoo, a one year old with two years worth of sp, THIS WILL END EVE boo hoo.
Nobody is prepared to say the secret why they don't want people to be able to buy sp for cash, and CCP don't want to say the secret that if you want to play Eve, you've got to play eve for at least a year before you get at the good stuff (notwithstanding whatever nonsense you come out with about Rifters and 2 day olds having fun).
Whatever sensible reason there might be that Veteran's ****ING LOVE! selling characters to newbies but ****ING HATE! the idea that CCP could, they're not saying, they're hiding behind nonsense.
It would make absolutely no difference to anybody EXCEPT veterans if I had 4x sp gain because I paid four times.
I wouldn't be buying a Veteran's farmed character, and he wouldn't getting my ISK. That's the only difference you'd notice. The only one. The. Only. Difference. And unless you happen to own the character you wouldn't even notice that.
Now why would anybody care about gaining ISK for chars, when you can trade PLEX for chars? Dunno.
MAYBE THEY'RE BEING FARMED AND SOLD ON EBAY FOR RL CASH! Maybe that's the reason they're so damm protective of the only asset in Eve that has an exceptionally fixed price. Gee? No? Really?
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Heroldyn
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 09:17:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Look, it's real simple, even an Eve Veteran can stick his fingers in his ears and go "la la la la it's not true it's not true It's Not TRUE!"
You don't control the number of people playing Eve, you don't control whether they sell a character or not. Not even CCP can control it. Your notions that somehow character sp is a sacred Ox that cannot be touched is pure jealousy, you don't want somebody else getting something you wish you'd had.
Some don't want their character farming business ISK source touching. Others like the Million sp Per Month The Character has been alive. Boo hoo, a one year old with two years worth of sp, THIS WILL END EVE boo hoo.
Nobody is prepared to say the secret why they don't want people to be able to buy sp for cash, and CCP don't want to say the secret that if you want to play Eve, you've got to play eve for at least a year before you get at the good stuff (notwithstanding whatever nonsense you come out with about Rifters and 2 day olds having fun).
Whatever sensible reason there might be that Veteran's ****ING LOVE! selling characters to newbies but ****ING HATE! the idea that CCP could, they're not saying, they're hiding behind nonsense.
It would make absolutely no difference to anybody EXCEPT veterans if I had 4x sp gain because I paid four times.
I wouldn't be buying a Veteran's farmed character, and he wouldn't getting my ISK. That's the only difference you'd notice. The only one. The. Only. Difference. And unless you happen to own the character you wouldn't even notice that.
Now why would anybody care about gaining ISK for chars, when you can trade PLEX for chars? Dunno.
MAYBE THEY'RE BEING FARMED AND SOLD ON EBAY FOR RL CASH! Maybe that's the reason they're so damm protective of the only asset in Eve that has an exceptionally fixed price. Gee? No? Really?
omg lol, you fail at so many instances. like at understanding the game and at reading what people told you over and over in this topic, or like maybe you just fail at understanding it. you also fail at better letting a topic die silently instead of making even more of a fool out of yourself.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 09:38:00 -
[83]
isn't it enough that you can already buy a charecter fully skilled and buy all the items ingame?
if it was up too me i would totally remove any kind of rl cash transfered to isk. and any kind of charecter trading..
there is a reason that there are NO other games allowing this, and it is so obvious, if you can't follow it, i am not even gonna bother trying to smack it into your brain since you have long gone been lost and no way too save your logical sense...
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Tiny Tove
|
Posted - 2009.09.02 10:27:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Heroldyn
omg lol, you fail at so many instances.
Yes I get that a lot. But not by anybody who then goes on to make a point, in English, with real words making a realistic point. It's usually followed by txt spk goin omfg lol u dont get nuffn lol itsobvious init coz evbdy sez so lol.
But if anybody wants to make an actual point that actually makes sense I'll read. So far it's just been one weak point after another, with not a single soul wanting to explain an actual genuine, plausible reason why they have a vested interest in keeping the perceived rarity of Skill Points solely tradable by third parties, and not CCP.
Just saying "nothing is created when you sell ISK" is a nonsense, because they're implying that the players are in control of Eve's ISK supply. Which they're not. CCP are.
I jst blu ur mind wide opn dint i?
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
I jst blu ur mind wide opn dint i?
no.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
isn't it enough that you can already buy a charecter fully skilled and buy all the items ingame?
if it was up too me i would totally remove any kind of rl cash transfered to isk. and any kind of charecter trading..
there is a reason that there are NO other games allowing this, and it is so obvious, if you can't follow it, i am not even gonna bother trying to smack it into your brain since you have long gone been lost and no way too save your logical sense...
Removal of all character trading, good good, sounds like we're getting somewhere... and then oh no here we go again.. "if you don't get it I have absolutely no way of expressing it because I don't get it either, but I like to be on the "winning" side of an arguement then I'm not going to waste my time explaining it, but I will waste my time explaining that I won't waste my time"
I've never really understood that particularly ridiculous "arguement". It's quite quite comical.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.02 10:42:00 -
[87]
Tiny Tove, all you ever reply to any arguments people throw at you is that they are weak or somehow dont count without ever explaining why.
You youself dont provide any arguments at all why buying skillpoints would benefit the game.
And then you end your post with some weired sentence that should supposly make you sound clever like:
"oh.. i can feel it alllready, say it, say it".
in my previous posts i have pointet out the differnce between value being generated and exisiting value changing hands. you seem to deny that this matters, but you dont explain why you think so. all you said is "because ccp does control isk". this doesnt make sense to me. maybe you could explain in some more detail.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:30:00 -
[88]
the inflation of SP by generating it via money seems to be a little hard to understand for that tiny dude... Actually I dont like feeding trolls but... whatever.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
Tiny Tove, all you ever reply to any arguments people throw at you is that they are weak or somehow dont count without ever explaining why.
I frequently point out why, choosing not to read it is not my problem. Knee jerk hitting reply and typing the same countered bandwagon nonsense, yes that's a problem because it perpetuates falsehoods.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
You youself dont provide any arguments at all why buying skillpoints would benefit the game.
Maybe because that's not a claim I made. But I could. And I could justify it.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
And then you end your post with some weired sentence that should supposly make you sound clever like:
"oh.. i can feel it alllready, say it, say it".
Do you see the replies to me that are basically trolls as "clever" or do you hold people on your bandwagon up to a different standard?
If people won't say what they mean, and they won't say something sensible, plausible and justified, they should not even be replying.
Originally by: Iamanoo bandyousuck
in my previous posts i have pointet out the differnce between value being generated and exisiting value changing hands. you seem to deny that this matters, but you dont explain why you think so. all you said is "because ccp does control isk". this doesnt make sense to me. maybe you could explain in some more detail.
It's real simple. So simple even you can ignore it.
If in any one year 1000 characters are traded, 1000 benefits went to Eve Veterans, and 1000x 20 euro went to CCP to develop Eve. (Plus whatever was spent on PLEX to afford the ISK)
Eve Veterans have now determined this is good, and WELL THEY MIGHT!
Instead, had 1000 new characters been created and paid for, then Eve Veterans crywhined because 1000 characters they had been carefully farming, or no longer wanted because their "other main" got outed, whatever, no longer got an ISK gain for them, and CCP gain 1000x 300? Euro to develop Eve, and 1000 characters went defunct.
The number of players remains the same, and the number of sp in play remains the same, but it's far too complicated, try not to think about it.
Just stating that sp is being created is rubbish. It's a popular soundbyte, one person said it, and everybody else saw it as a plausible bandwagon winner without stopping and thinking. Just rampant flooding nonsense ensues.
But again, got anything credible that stands up to sixty seconds of rational thought, and I'm all ears. Protectionism and bandwagons, no not really, they're weak and easily thought around.
I have read it. I didn't think that you actually wanted me to point out the "creating skillpoints" is actually fundamentally nonsense, since it would be, what's that thing called? Self Evident. What I mean is the notion that buying sp of CCP creates a skillpoint surplus in Eve is nonsense. It doesn't and it won't.
The amount of isk and Brutix's (and those skillpoints you think that are far too abundant) and Armageddons sat around in redundant and defunct accounts pretty much denies the whole arguement, but it's not really something that anybody is prepared to accept. There is far too much vested interest in the fixed price of sp on ebay / character bazaar.
There is too much fear that somebody who has only been playing Eve for six months might be allowed to fly a HAC with good skills without handing over a few hundred dollars in PLEX, and then a few billion ISK to a veteran for the priviledge.
So it's No Big Surprise that buying sp directly from CCP causes Eve's Veterans to cry and whine so damm hard. Cutting them out of a sweet sweet deal where they get to play whatever they like and then sell it for a profit and then play for free, and in many cases train a whole new character for free, yes I can see why they would want strong protection for it.
And if they get to dump on non veterans at the same time.... all the sweeter.
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Comodore John
Gallente
QunSegh
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Posted - 2009.09.02 21:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
good job, now you just destroyed the people who collect corpses business and those who have huge stockpiles of corpses (mines only at 65 last count :( ) now have the ability to get large amounts of sp.
the potential SP gain from 0.0 corpses would be insane also. or you could pod yourself, then let a friend take your corpse, they then get to have some of your skills, keep doing this with your updated clone and hell have the same skills as you
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lobster2b
Dark OPS Inventions
United Norwegian Corporations
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Posted - 2009.09.03 15:10:00 -
[91]
tiny tove:
i must admit, that your last post is dead on by my count.
thread:
and id support sp/corpse idea, im guessing corps get a pretty pricetag on its toe :D
and a idea, all functionality is already ingame btw..
buy 100% training bonus.. one month = 1 plex, shoudnt **** off the crybabies here that is AFRAID of change (there I said it). And should give ccp $$$ to develop eve, and maybe reply to the mountain of petitions. OR fix those bugs
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.09.03 18:59:00 -
[92]
Its not about being scared of change, its about making a large number of people who have dedicated years of their lives to playing the game not be rewarded for their time and effort.
The only people who want SP buying to be legal are the ones who fundamentally misunderstand how this game is played.
Much like in reality, in Eve you have to do your time and pay your dues before you can play with the really good toys.
If you can just throw money at the game and be awesome at everything all the time, it would devalue the time and effort that people have put in.
The final word on the matter is that as you spend months crafting your character and your skill points, you learn the game. Getting to play with the bigboy toys when your not growed up inevitably leads to you setting the house on fire.
People who support this idea should have their ********* removed, surgically.
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lobster2b
Dark OPS Inventions
United Norwegian Corporations
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Posted - 2009.09.03 19:35:00 -
[93]
Edited by: lobster2b on 03/09/2009 19:37:28
Edited by: lobster2b on 03/09/2009 19:35:58
"Its not about being scared of change, its about making a large number of people who have dedicated years of their lives to playing the game not be rewarded for their time and effort."
they have already been rewarded, why should they be rewarded again?
and you are talking about a HUGE boost of sp, what we are talking about is ,yes buy sp, but not at the alarming rate all of you screams about.
like comon, if i had skilled bs 5 in like 15 days instead of 30 (100% boost) id still learn to fly a mauroder, and yes i might burn down my "house". THAT is the definition of eve, the loss you take if somthing goes bad! thats why we LOVE eve.
and the pvpers/powerblocks/miners/traders/builders/inventers will get extra isk/fun for my stupidity. Now isnt that somthing.
talking about burning down your "house" cant belive you actually dont understand your own argument, then you dislike buying chars aswell, since you give a relative weak and not well thought of argument. You mean that you should do it the long and, yes i agree, right way to do it. but what if a new player comes into right gang? and get a thorough training, we will just get bored of waiting, then YEY in 2 mins, then start to boring away.
(ps n00bs got 100% training from the get go, so obviosly he need to finish the n00b era)
granted, my insight is not perfect, but imho i think it could be worth it.
and as a buisness man.. Makes me moore money, not loosing mutch.. im in!
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.03 23:59:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
The only people who want SP buying to be legal are the ones who fundamentally misunderstand how this game is played.
Except for... ya know... if he buys sp off a veteran... then it's ok... ya know... pfft.
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
Much like in reality, in Eve you have to do your time and pay your dues before you can play with the really good toys.
Which reality is it you live in where the rich and powerful have to wait in line?
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
If you can just throw money at the game and be awesome at everything all the time, it would devalue the time and effort that people have put in.
Subjective.
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
The final word on the matter is that as you spend months crafting your character and your skill points, you learn the game. Getting to play with the bigboy toys when your not growed up inevitably leads to you setting the house on fire.
The final word is pathetic, misguided nonsense. You may well have struggled at the advancement pace, doesn't mean we all do.
But like you said earlier, it's ok AS LONG AS WE'RE GIVING MONEY TO VETERANS. Yes. Can that be the final word? Anything that benefits Veterans = good. Anything that doesn't = Bad.?
Whatever ******* is, you want to remove them surgically, there might be something wrong with your head if you want to do that to people who can think rings around you. Yes, you're sounding a bit sick to be honest, almost as bad as that guy who wants the people who disagree with him to commit suicide. That's just sick.
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ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.09.04 09:09:00 -
[95]
i dont want you to be able to buy SP with real cash because i can't afford to match your daddies credit card Tiny Brains.
it's that simple really... **** the veterans should be better argument, it holds some water but lets be truly honest here..
If even 1 really rich person can exchange their real money for SP's directly it will devalue everything everyone else trained for. it will also become the standard to match... most people can't afford to (keep) throwing RL cash into the game just to keep up on the SP gain, quite a few people are paying their subs with plex's as is. yeah yeah "sux to be poor ha ha!" whatever...
why can't you be happy with spending RL money to buy PLEX to sell for isk to buy a toon with on the bazaar? all the SP's you want are available and you even have an effect on your RL to SP exhange rate...
"Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.04 09:35:00 -
[96]
Originally by: ServantOfMask
i dont want you to be able to buy SP with real cash because i can't afford to match your daddies credit card Tiny Brains.
So why is it ok for my DADDY credit card to buy a char off a veteran ServantOfTroll?
Originally by: ServantOfMask
it's that simple really... **** the veterans should be better argument, it holds some water but lets be truly honest here..
So simple you didn't think of the obvious counter.
Originally by: ServantOfMask
If even 1 really rich person can exchange their real money for SP's directly it will devalue everything everyone else trained for. it will also become the standard to match... most people can't afford to (keep) throwing RL cash into the game just to keep up on the SP gain, quite a few people are paying their subs with plex's as is. yeah yeah "sux to be poor ha ha!" whatever...
They ALREADY can. See above. What is your point?
Originally by: ServantOfMask
why can't you be happy with spending RL money to buy PLEX to sell for isk to buy a toon with on the bazaar? all the SP's you want are available and you even have an effect on your RL to SP exhange rate...
So suddenly you realise the rich already can...
I would invite you to try again to make your point, but I rather imagine you have no ability to.
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GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2009.09.04 10:01:00 -
[97]
Tiny thinks veteran players would make profit from creating and later selling characters. But Tiny does not notice she is wrong. Tiny does not notice that training characters cost veterans more money than isk worth them buying gtc directly. Tiny does not understand veterans just sell characters because they dont need them anymore or dont want to play them anymore. Tiny also does not understand the concept of inflation. |
Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.04 10:19:00 -
[98]
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
Tiny thinks veteran players would make profit from creating and later selling characters. But Tiny does not notice she is wrong. Tiny does not notice that training characters cost veterans more money than isk worth them buying gtc directly. Tiny does not understand veterans just sell characters because they dont need them anymore or dont want to play them anymore. Tiny also does not understand the concept of inflation.
Maybe you're doing it wrong?
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Armina Dottir
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Posted - 2009.09.04 12:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
Tiny thinks veteran players would make profit from creating and later selling characters. But Tiny does not notice she is wrong. Tiny does not notice that training characters cost veterans more money than isk worth them buying gtc directly. Tiny does not understand veterans just sell characters because they dont need them anymore or dont want to play them anymore. Tiny also does not understand the concept of inflation.
Maybe you're doing it wrong?
Or, maybe you're doing it wrong? 
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.04 12:05:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Armina Dottir
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: GuntiNDDS
Tiny thinks veteran players would make profit from creating and later selling characters. But Tiny does not notice she is wrong. Tiny does not notice that training characters cost veterans more money than isk worth them buying gtc directly. Tiny does not understand veterans just sell characters because they dont need them anymore or dont want to play them anymore. Tiny also does not understand the concept of inflation.
Maybe you're doing it wrong?
Or, maybe you're doing it wrong?
Maybe, I've only sold two characters and made a profit on both. So yes, maybe I should have done it with twenty, or two hundred.
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