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Cayell
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:11:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sig Sour Check out the timecode bizarre...
There are subtle but very real differences between outright buying ISK, and buying Timecodes to sell on for ISK, the biggest of which is that buying ISK pumps real-life money into people who ruin the game for everyone by ruining market prices, increasing server load (A LOT), and hacking accounts, whereas buying timecodes puts money into CCP's pocket, which is then used to improve the game.
The end result of RLM -> ISK may be the same in essence, but it's important not to start spreading the word that 'Buying ISK is legal' - particularly when CCP are in the middle of a huge ISK-seller crackdown. Semantics are important.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:19:00 -
[32]
You know you can go real money --> timecode --> isk ---> character if you want, effectively buying SP.
Buying SP on a pre-existing character directly would be hugely unbalancing. Think a little about why.
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote: Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative. I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap. the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game . grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This. Except mark me down for 3 years, not 4. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Lifelongnoob
Caldari Final Conflict UK
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Posted - 2009.08.26 20:30:00 -
[34]
i think ccp could introduce this but make it so u can only buy a one off 60 day double speed training card per character. This would help noobs get up to a level where they can have a reasonable chance at pvp (albeit in a fleet) and help ccp gain more new players that dont get frustrated cos they need at least 6 months of training just to have a hope a winning a fight.
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steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:52:00 -
[35]
Quote: Buying ISK is legal - Y not SP ?
It's pretty simple actually. It is possible to break the rules and buy isk anyway, so CCP create a way to do it that is not as bad as buying it from an isk seller. It's possible to break the rules and sell chars anyway, so CCP create a way to do it that is not as bad as buying it from hackers stealing accounts. It is NOT possible to break the rules and instantly add SP to an already existing char, so there is no need for CCP to create a way to do it that is not as bad for the game.
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2009.08.26 22:58:00 -
[36]
ummm no? am i missing something?
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:14:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 26/08/2009 23:15:03
Yes, your premise is false. Just because buying isk doesn't break any laws judicially except maybe ironically in China, CCP frowns on it and it does break the terms of service you agreed to when you started up your game account.
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.08.26 23:18:00 -
[38]
I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.27 01:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ezevector I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
This would be more plausible. Like buying an alt, but with a reduced cost and reduced training time.
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steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Markus Reese
Originally by: Ezevector I'd support paying a bit extra to be able to train your alts simultaneously with your main; I've always been a bit put off that you are basically expected to buy another account if you want to have another character, and training alts doesn't put your main on uneven footing with anyone else (though reading some of the replies to topics on the subject, you'd think having 20k extra SP on your alt translated into 5 billion extra SP on your main...)
This would be more plausible. Like buying an alt, but with a reduced cost and reduced training time.
Yeah, I'd support that. You get to train 2 characters at once (which you can do anyway by paying for a second account) at a reduced cost, however, you can only use one of them at a time, so there is still an incentive to get a second account instead.
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Mike Voidstar
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:56:00 -
[41]
It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
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Destoya
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
I would lol
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mike Voidstar It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
Sums it up.
To OP: as others have pointed out: you can already buy your SP. Buy a couple of GTC. Then watch the character bazaar and have a little patience. Sooner or later you will come across a char with skills to your liking and a name you won't have to be embarrassed. Problem solved.
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.08.28 19:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mike Voidstar It's really, really simple.
The way EVE is now, ISK is essentially without value. It's easy come, easy go.
The only true value in any MMO, one that CCP has capitalized on in a clever way, is time spent. If you allowed an outlet to the asian sweatshop owner to basically create any character he wants by sending his fleet of bots forth to destroy the economy creating billions of Isk to sell to buy SP with, it would crush EVE.
As it is, the RL ISK/money market is stable, and at least under the eye, if not the thumb, of CCP. If money or Isk were to be translatable to SP, that would change radically for the worse.
I do, however, support Plex for secondary character training. I don't see that as much different than paying for a second account, except that you might change the logistics of it a little---but if you have to pay seperatly for each character's training, I see little harm.
Asian sweatshops don't have unlimited amounts of everything all the time. In fact, the harshest limitation they have, I would bet, is USD. They can throw cheap labor and bots around all they want, but they can't throw real money in bulk at everything and expect to come out on top.
If some Yankee can pay $5 to train his alt, whereas the Asian Sweatshop [tm] has to charge $7 for the same service, the sweatshop dies. That's capitalism. And this would actually be the case in EVE, since the sweatshop can't bot it's way into anything other than dragging skills into the queue.
The problem is, right now the reverse is often true. A person can make $15 an hour at his job or $5 million ISK playing EVE, so if he wants ISK, it's far more effective to get it through his real job than by grinding. That's the real reason ISK/Gold/Gil/whatever sales persist; they genuinely save you RL money if you look at it from the perspective of time spent, and oftentimes, getting money in an MMO is no more fun than working (particularly if you're trying to get large amounts).
PLEX is one of the better solutions I've seen, for numerous reasons. Granted, I think the ideal solution would be an overhaul of the entire MMO paradigm, but that's about as likely as me receiving $15million USD from the prince of Nigeria...
Incidentally, the easy-go aspect of ISK is half of the reason that PLEX hasn't been enough. The fact that one player can wander up in a suicide alt and blow up a billion ISK worth of stuff for no significant loss to himself is a lot of the reason people don't feel bad about buying isk for RLM; the way they see it, CCP is allowing gankers and griefers an unreasonably large amount of control over their game experience, so they're forcefully taking some of it back. No matter how many threads tell them "it's your fault for X reason," they're going to resent it, and if they don't quit from the loss or the subsequent taunting (half of which will be taunting about ragequitting), you can be sure they won't feel bad about trading with ISK-sellers after the EVE community willfully alienates them like that.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who went out and bought ISK halfway out of spite.
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James Vayne
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Posted - 2009.08.29 05:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote: Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative. I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap. the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game . grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
Gotta agree with this dude. I'm only a month in myself and yes, waiting for the skills to get t2 stuff is a pain in the arse, but EVE would absolutely SUCK if people could just buy SP. SP is there to balance out the game. Being able to just buy SP would defeat the whole object of the game. You'd have hundreds of day old characters flying around in battleships showing off their e-peens and the whole thing would just be a joke.
I expect you've been pwned by someone better than you. Cry more. Buying SP will not happen.
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.08.29 10:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: xOm3gAx
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote: Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative. I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap. the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game . grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This.
IS SPARTAAAAAAA!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4aaZaBCS1s&videos=bvhgaLEQ2_4&playnext=5&playnext_from=TL THis will help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJAukUvnEas&NR=1 You say THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Rawbin Hood
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.08.29 10:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
◄Brutor► The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count) |
James Vayne
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Posted - 2009.08.29 11:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rawbin Hood
Originally by: Urgg Boolean I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
Yeah. Here, let me fix the thread title
Buying isk is illegal. Buying SP is a dumb idea.
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Ezevector
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Posted - 2009.08.31 21:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Rawbin Hood
Originally by: Urgg Boolean I'm not promoting or supporting the sale of SP for real life cash,
thats all i looked at, you should be banned =P
Please, don't reply to stuff you haven't read.
This applies to everyone on God's green Earth, and it is as much for your sake as anyone's.
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Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.31 22:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Destoya
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I will never support any "pay for SP" initiative, but as I have said before, I would support a game feature whereby frozen corpses can be consumed in order to acquire a bit of their skillpoints (in the specific skills they have trained -- so you could not kill a newbie and use the SP toward your Dreadnought training, but you could kill a miner and acquire a few points of Astrogeology from him). This I think would be a nice addition to gameplay.
This is a hilarious idea that might just work. The thought of cannibalism seems to fit with the EVE philosophy.
I would lol
I'm glad my idea is starting to be taken seriously! Imagine how this would contribute to evil schemes and betrayals. Ganking noobs at a gatecamp isn't likely to get you any new skills that you don't already have, except possibly in the industrial category, but betraying, podding, and consuming your capital pilot CEO could give you several days worth of valuable skillpoints, especially if you're a noob. And even then, you'd have to fight with your fellow conspirators for the corpse!
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Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.08.31 22:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Mike C on 31/08/2009 22:26:30
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Eveloution
Quote: Geez, you appear awfully negative with all those no's. Maybe you should go pod some noobs to relieve stress
I'm not negative. I've been in this game for 4 years and all this stuff I see happening to make the game easier for people and noobs is crap. the learning curve is their for a reason to stop stupid people from doing things they dont know how to do and to appreciate and defend what they have.
Might as well be carriers and titans online if you can buy your way into skills No roids cause everyone will buy the skills for a hulk market will crash since everyone will have great research skills and marketing skills and build skills
see where this will lead why not do away with skills and let everyone use everything in the game . grind like we all did then that first cruiser you get and lose you will get the same tingly feeling we all did and love the game for what it is
This. Except mark me down for 3 years, not 4.
EDIT 1/1: Now let this thread fall into the never-ending depths of the forum (No more posts). [/thread] __________________________________________________
Originally by: Mike C Trolls - We keep Humanity alive... and kicking...
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 07:28:00 -
[52]
no, because a noob shouldnt get skills of a pro just by buying them. Eve defines learning by time and experience, not farming and buying stuff.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.01 10:37:00 -
[53]
wnat to buy isk then buy a PLEX and sell it ( money goes to ccp)
Buying isk direct ( illegal of course) also opens u up to keyloggers, account bannings, negative accounts etc.
SO do the right thing help ccp and enjoy
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:38:00 -
[54]
I wonder why buying a character is considered ok by the veterans, but buying sp (FROM CCP AND NOT A VETERAN) is considered bad.
Why would they care where a rich kid buys his sp from?
Hmmmm Hmmmmmm..........
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:40:00 -
[55]
for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
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GuntiNDDS
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:44:00 -
[56]
yah they should implement that. 1sp for 5000 USD. let some rich guys waste some of their monies.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Robert Caldera for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
What? Because he wants to choose his own name? That doesn't make sense. I doubt that is the reason that Veterans want you to buy your ISK from CCP and not third parties, but you have to buy your SP from third parties and not CCP. No, I don't think that's it at all.
I think it's something else. There must be some reason why all those arguments against RMT get inverted for SP. "Buying your ISK from CCP means more money to develop Eve". TRUE! "Buying Your SP from CCP means more money to develop Eve!" NO! THIS IS WRONG! "Buying your ISK from third parties means you get hacked!" TRUE! "Buying you sp from third parties means you get hacked!" FALSE! DO IT! IT'S BEST!
There must be a reason... but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:46:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 01/09/2009 13:47:03
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Robert Caldera for the same reason these rich kids dont like buying an old character I guess...
What? Because he wants to choose his own name?
yes. Name, portrait, skills...
Originally by: Tiny Tove
There must be a reason... but I just can't quite put my finger on it.
Char name + skills = identity.
Where you buy a skilled char you cant give it your identity like for an own grown char, this is a serious drawback which prevents me and many other people from play other peoples char effectively.
Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.09.01 13:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
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Iamanoo bandyousuck
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Posted - 2009.09.01 14:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Originally by: Robert Caldera Having possibility of clicking a pro char without drawbacks is what I have a problem with. In fact this would destroy all the concept of skilling and growing your character, players who want to play the game regularly would get massive disadvantages to players who just click a perfect BS pilot in few minutes. I would not like that. Either buy a skilled character and play "someone" as drawback or skill your own "you".
Yes but since you can already buy "a perfect BS pilot in few minutes", what is the problem of buying it from CCP instead of a Veteran... I really feel like we're getting close to the answer.
here i'll spoil the secret reasonf or you:
when u buy a char from the bazar, it is allready existent. someone else has to give it up. no new high-sp char is generated.
if ppl could buy sp by isk, new high-sp chars would be generated ontop of thoose that allready exist, which would create a 'hole' in lower sp chars.
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