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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:18:00 -
[1]
An old topic, isn't it? The complaints about how autistic people on mescalin are constantly 0.01 isking your buy or sell orders in the trading hubs. There was this great thread here recently with all sort of tips on how to react to this (but "react" in a defensive sort of way).
I have a much better idea though. Starting today, I am creating a loose "Traders Union" as you might call it. This will be open for anyone interested, who trades a good deal in the hubs, and is not a very nasty person. There will be screening. As for myself, I station trade in the 3 major hubs, and I update my orders 8-10 times a day. Chances are you already think I am a very nasty person, but I am offering to stop that.
The union works miraculously simple: all you have to do is join our common chatroom and agree to not purposefully undercutting your fellow union members. For easy recognition you pick a signature number to include in all your orders.
Don't worry, the idea is absolutely NOT that you start disclosing to anyone where you are seeing good trade deals! There is no pressure for anything like that, all this is is giving you an opportunity to know the persons that you see underbidding you, and sort it out with them immediately. You are not even obliged to always use your signature, it's really up to you. You will find it is a win-win situation.
In conclusion, this might not end ALL bidding wars, but will definitely make power trading easier for those who join.
tl; dr:
hook up Cista2 or Sistar2 in game and start enjoying life more.
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:23:00 -
[2]
Ill check it out, If anything it would be great to talk to some of the people that I probably make scream at their monitors on a daily basis.
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Nihn Lemai
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:25:00 -
[3]
What, so we unanimously decide what a certain item should be priced and no one is allowed to sell it for less? Or how would the "agree to not purposefully undercut" part work?
Sorry, I really cant see this working. But if it did, I would move to the new stable Jita at once, putting up cheaper orders and enjoy passive trading of huge turnover.
Nice try though. 
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Nemi Lethal
Gallente
DarkStar Armada
One Stop Research
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:48:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Nihn Lemai
What, so we unanimously decide what a certain item should be priced and no one is allowed to sell it for less? Or how would the "agree to not purposefully undercut" part work?
Sorry, I really cant see this working. But if it did, I would move to the new stable Jita at once, putting up cheaper orders and enjoy passive trading of huge turnover.
Nice try though.
It might not translate into much of an edge trading wise, but it would still be fun to talk to the people in jita currently all up in your buisness.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 06:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nihn Lemai
What, so we unanimously decide what a certain item should be priced and no one is allowed to sell it for less?
No, not at all, there is no such cooporation implied. The only function of this club is that members that see other members' orders on the market can choose to talk to them about it, instead of starting a price war. The two members can agree to split some orders between them, but it's on a wholly voluntary and individualistic basic.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:20:00 -
[6]
Can my alt afdsklarhjewie join?
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sistar2
For easy recognition you pick a signature number to include in all your orders.
Whenever I see somebody using a signature in their orders, I start copying it.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Whenever I see somebody using a signature in their orders, I start copying it.
Yes, I've seen that. It doesn't bother people as much as you probably hope 
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.08.27 07:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Emily Spankratchet on 27/08/2009 07:44:30
Originally by: Sistar2
Yes, I've seen that. It doesn't bother people as much as you probably hope
I know  I still can't stop myself, though.
Edit: And in this case, of course, the inability to see who places an order would mean that it did annoy people. There's no way to make this sort of cartel work unless they have a central record of which orders have been placed by each member. And with the level of undercutting that goes on generally, that record would never be up-to-date. But we all knew it was a silly idea anyway.
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Kahetha's Syster
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:01:00 -
[10]
I would really like to see something like this to work.
I have thought up some similar ideas myself. Soemthing like serious trades and manufacturers dealing with/in a certain area/item/product get together and agree on prices to make it so that everyone gets their stuff sold and not just the dude who can be botherd with fixing his orders 5 times and hour. And when the funny guys that undercut by 20%+ show up they can all buy it out together if it's a large order to spread the risk and so on.
Hawing said that though, I just don't see it. I don't see more than like 3 people in the whole of eve agreeing to anything like this.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sistar2 on 27/08/2009 08:18:38
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
And in this case, of course, the inability to see who places an order would mean that it did annoy people.
Clever girl, you correctly spotted a weakness that i hoped would not be brought to the thread lol. You could pick up my signature and go all around the market with it. However, it would only annoy us if there was a succesful "us" to begin with. In other words, you can only parasitise on our system if our system yields us good isk. If it does that, then of course there will be parasites, and we will have to counter that.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 08:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kahetha's Syster
Hawing said that though, I just don't see it. I don't see more than like 3 people in the whole of eve agreeing to anything like this.
Your ideas are good, but I have to agree with you that it is difficult to carry out. Which is why in my union there is no attempt to control the market - just trying to make life a little easier for ourselves.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.27 09:17:00 -
[13]
If someone dumps 100,000 units of widgets on the market then what do you do ? Wait until they have sold all their widgets?
Let My People Go |
Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 10:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Poreuomai
If someone dumps 100,000 units of widgets on the market then what do you do ? Wait until they have sold all their widgets?
Hey, not sure what you mean here. My opening statement was maybe a little unclear. It's not like we're not going to 0.01 isk the crap out of EVERYBODY ELSE, we will
If that "someone" is one of us then we have the possibility to make some sort of deal, but that's completely up to the two traders involved, there are no rules forced on you.
It's not rocket science really. Already when the first guy joined the room today we realised that we have been competing on certain items even this week. So there's already a positive effect.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.27 10:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sistar2
It's not like we're not going to 0.01 isk the crap out of EVERYBODY ELSE, we will
I see
Let My People Go |
Magnu Stormhawk
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Posted - 2009.08.27 10:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sistar2
It's not rocket science really. Already when the first guy joined the room today we realised that we have been competing on certain items even this week. So there's already a positive effect.
Ok, so you established that you are competing with someone. Woot. What was the resolution you came to with this guy?
I'm interested to see how this can work out. At the moment it looks like a chat room for traders. Not a bad idea in itself, but some examples of a positive outcome for two competing parties would be more interesting.
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Sistar2
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.08.27 11:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk
some examples of a positive outcome for two competing parties would be more interesting.
It's just starting today - the results will come automatically if the people that join us will be cool with the concept.
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Pha3drus
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Posted - 2009.08.27 11:59:00 -
[18]
Recently I have been having the same idea and I think that it could work quite well, certianly in smaller trade hubs. It would also mean that you would find out who is selling what which would give rise to much better market coverage and allow you to fill in the gaps and incease your trade.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.08.27 13:52:00 -
[19]
I chuckled
Anytime you guys think you've muscled a item's price to where you want them, I'm just gonna undercut you and so can thousands of other traders.
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Hoo Is
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
I chuckled
Anytime you guys think you've muscled a item's price to where you want them, I'm just gonna undercut you and so can thousands of other traders.
You didn't want that profit anyway
----
a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |
Cpt Steo
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Sistar2
For easy recognition you pick a signature number to include in all your orders.
Whenever I see somebody using a signature in their orders, I start copying it.
This ^^
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Traska Gannel
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:38:00 -
[22]
Hi Sistar2,
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was actively trading quite a lot on buy orders for a wide variety of items in Jita. (However, station trading is the most BORING :) (IMHO) EVE activity I've come across yet ... though I made a modest 3 billion in 3 months at an average of less than an hour a day).
The biggest problem I see with your idea is markets. At the peak I had over 80 buy orders out. I also actively sold items to my competitors buy orders to find out who they were. There were several items that would make your plan problematic:
1) Although there was some significant overlap between the items I was buying and other people - there were several sections of the 80 buy orders with different competitors. One person might have been competing on 10 items, someone else on 20 others that only overlapped with the first person for a few items. In the end I had added about 30 characters to my address book of those who were regularly competing.
2) There was significant turn over of competition in the 3 months. Typical active competition seemed to average about a month for some people. This constant turn over in competition all on different items makes it even more difficult for your plan to work.
3) There are many distinct markets - each with different goals and different competition.
A) T1 modules - common mission loot - these are typically high to very high volume. Most of these, particularly the large ones, are purchased by industrialists for their mineral value. Almost all of these sell at mineral value +/- 2k isk.
B) Low meta level modules - uncommon mission loot - these are low to medium volume both for sell and buy orders. No one really wants them to fit a ship unless desparate. Profit can be made here by purchasing for below reprocess value and selling the minerals. I've seen several people operate in this market by buying and then placing sell orders ... typically this would take forever to sell through the supply. However, if the seller happens to reduce their price to ~10k isk below the reprocess value - someone will come along and buy them all up for the quick profit. I made 15 million isk in 5 minutes picking up 2500 Infiltrator I drones which were selling for 6k below reprocess value. At the time the buy market price was about 9k below reprocess - as a result the seller made about 7.5 million while I made the rest ... though these deals are rare - and it would have taken a very long time to sell those drones above the reprocess value.
C) High meta level modules - rare mission loot - low to very low quantities - both buy and sell are above reprocess. These markets can be very competitive but there is often a 20 to 40% spread between buy and sell on which to make a profit. However, these markets are also much more susceptible to manipulation.
D) T2 modules - all player made - the only below manufacturing cost sales come from players selling off modules they don't need. I think this market is probably dominated by manufacturers but there is still probably a little profit to be made in the resale market but I would expect resale volume to be small.
E) T1 ships - low to very low buy volume. Price is again likely dominated by manufacturers. However, there are some deals where either the buy price or someone putting up a sell order is below reprocess value. This changes rapidly however.
F) Implants and Boosters
G) Ammo
...
As you can see I spent most of my time trading in modules :) ... but there are so many items to trade in where a profit can be made that I don't think you'll find enough people operating in the same markets to make your idea work.
Good luck with your idea ... a trading club just to have someone to talk with while you update your orders might be fun ... there might also be some useful tidbits like those I mentioned above ... but overall, I found that typically there were anywhere from 0 to 10 other people trading in the same items as I was.
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Dzil
Caldari
Halo Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:46:00 -
[23]
I'm also ending PVP in EVE. People, stop shooting each other.
There, that outta do it.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Traska Gannel
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Posted - 2009.08.27 14:51:00 -
[24]
One more issue :)
The existence of market macros may be a significant issue with this plan since someone using a macro does not care. I was dubious about the existence of macros until I ran across one player who was either a fanatic about their orders - or was a bot.
Why do I say this?
Here was what I observed: What are the odds that someone increments each and every buy order they have out by exactly 1% of the current high price (to the nearest 0.01 ISK) ... each and every time they update their orders across a set of at least 10 different modules (I observed this for about 10 different modules and verified that the same player was setting the orders in at least 4 of them over a period of a couple of weeks). It is always possible that the player involved was just pedantic to the extreme and didn't mind typing in all the numbers every time and updating their buy order price to the new value without making a mistake every time ... on the other hand, it could have been a bot.
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Dzil
Caldari
Halo Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:55:00 -
[25]
Quote:
What are the odds that someone increments each and every buy order they have out by exactly 1% of the current high price ...
Well, if those odds are greater than 1 : 300,000, then it's likely you'll see the behavior.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
James Tundra
Gallente
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:56:00 -
[26]
I would like to join this fund, and would be willing to offer it funding for the next 6-7 months interest free.
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small chimp
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:25:00 -
[27]
T2 resale market can be actually quite profitable.
People actually clean up their hangars suprisingly much and sometimes people even sell bigger stacks to sell orders.
In major hubs the profit margin can be pretty sleek but hauling them into minor hubs can give as good as 30-40% profit margin and little competition on sell orders. And there is no problem at all selling basic t2 mods in even smaller hubs.
I think i shouldnt have said this. :(
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Roguehalo
Caldari
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:41:00 -
[28]
Maybe we could extend this idea to pvp. If only people would stop shooting at each other nobody would lose anything.
Oh wait.....
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Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
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Posted - 2009.08.29 00:19:00 -
[29]
No no no.
When you see somebody you want to shoot, instead just start a conversation with him, or talk to him in Local. See if you can't find a way to share the system and just shoot at everyone else instead.
Or have I misunderstood the idea here?
--
EVE Blog
EVE Twitter |
Removal Tool
Two Minutes Hate
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Posted - 2009.08.29 01:04:00 -
[30]
I'll see your thread and raise it by 0.1 isk.
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Metalcali
Dreams In Digital
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Posted - 2009.08.29 01:15:00 -
[31]
I never buy from people who are always changing the isk by .01 or even by 1k, I see it as just encouraging them more. Don't mind paying slightly more than the price warring traders
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Locked.
OP does not contain an idea.
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Removal Tool
Two Minutes Hate
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Posted - 2009.08.29 01:21:00 -
[32]
If you are buying in a market hub, you do not choose who you buy from, the lowest price does.
And if you try to buy from an order that is not the lowest price, you are still buying from the order that had the lowest price, but you are just paying the higher price and overpaying for the item.
Trust me on this.
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.08.29 02:13:00 -
[33]
wouldnt a shrewd trader just copy you recognisable number, yet still undercut?
its an n person prisoners dilemma. therefore this will likely happen. and once everyone starts defecting, the institution will break down because there is no real way to tell the difference between someone who is abiding by the rule or exploiting it. therefore a loss in confidence and breakdown of the cartel, etc, etc.
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Rotnac
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.29 04:07:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Metalcali
I never buy from people who are always changing the isk by .01 or even by 1k, I see it as just encouraging them more. Don't mind paying slightly more than the price warring traders
Thank you for giving me more than what my order is listed at.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 07:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Casiella Truza
When you see somebody you want to shoot, instead just start a conversation with him, or talk to him in Local. See if you can't find a way to share the system and just shoot at everyone else instead.
Or have I misunderstood the idea here?
You have it dead right. What you are describing is commonly known a "corp". What I am creating is a meta-corp for a group of traders (from different corps), fighting other traders. But the general principle is the same.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 08:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: rubico1337
wouldnt a shrewd trader just copy you recognisable number, yet still undercut?
... and once everyone starts defecting, the institution will break down
This was also mentioned earlier. My answer is still the same: in order for anyone to "break down the institution", there first needs to be a succesful institution to break down. If someone is parasitising my signature, I must surely do something right.
This is purely hypothetical, but should it happen, the countermeasure is simply to change signature as often as necessary. The people that are in the group see the updated list of signatures as they log in. If people in the group abuse the system it's a challenge we will have to look into.
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.08.29 12:08:00 -
[37]
And here I though you have some real advantage and want to make an announcement. But no, you are in the same position as everyone else, trading at the same price, given or taken 0,01 ISK.
You are competing with bots, playing on their turf, what do you expect?
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.29 12:18:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Sistar2 on 29/08/2009 12:23:43
Originally by: Forge Lag
But no, you are in the same position as everyone else, trading at the same price, given or taken 0,01 ISK.
You are competing with bots, playing on their turf, what do you expect?
I am in the same position as everybody else, but I am better at it than most. One of the reasons is that I have initiative.
Incidentally, if there were bots operating I wouldn't be making the profit I am.
But this is not about me per se, this is about starting something new, a new form of cooperation that I believe is not currently present in the market theatre.
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Doomed Predator
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.29 12:52:00 -
[39]
You can't stop 0.01 isk wars.
And to the person who said that trading in T2 mods isn't profitable; you really don't have a clue do you?
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
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Posted - 2009.08.29 14:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Metalcali
I never buy from people who are always changing the isk by .01 or even by 1k, I see it as just encouraging them more. Don't mind paying slightly more than the price warring traders
Heh. You actually still buy from the lowest seller, you're just giving him more than he asked.
So not only does your strategy fail to accomplish its objective, you actually help us out by increasing our margins slightly.
--
EVE Blog
EVE Twitter |
Metalcali
Dreams In Digital
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Posted - 2009.08.30 00:37:00 -
[41]
Ah, well I learned something new, either way, hope you've enjoyed my 3k extra isk each sale
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Locked.
OP does not contain an idea.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2009.08.30 01:44:00 -
[42]
It's called a cartel, it goes back to the start of history, and good luck making it happen with thousands of players on the market with zero market chokepoints. The effectively controllable items and markets in Eve already are controlled by cartel. For everything else, it's hopeless.
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.08.30 08:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sistar2
This was also mentioned earlier. My answer is still the same: in order for anyone to "break down the institution", there first needs to be a succesful institution to break down. If someone is parasitising my signature, I must surely do something right.
This is purely hypothetical, but should it happen, the countermeasure is simply to change signature as often as necessary. The people that are in the group see the updated list of signatures as they log in. If people in the group abuse the system it's a challenge we will have to look into.
what you are effectively proposing is a cartel, which will never work because of the high numbers of sellers and low entry costs of most eve items, and the inability to punish those who take advantage fo the cartel's price fixing. eve fundamentally promotes efficient markets. maybe you should read up on your basic economics before acting like you know what your talking about
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.30 11:48:00 -
[44]
Originally by: rubico1337
...will never work because of ... inability to punish those who take advantage fo the cartel's price fixing
Once again, a slight misunderstanding. The ambition is not to fix market prices on any item. A succes will be simply if we can spend less time updating orders as a result of us not competing on the same orders any more.
And to update, we are now just about 5-6 people that have joined the room. We have seen absolutely no practical effect of us doing this yet, but are having a ball with trade discussions, sharing tips etc. We do know that 2 of us competed on orders just before the union was created, so no doubt we will see benefits in the future.
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.08.30 13:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sistar2
Originally by: rubico1337
...will never work because of ... inability to punish those who take advantage fo the cartel's price fixing
Once again, a slight misunderstanding. The ambition is not to fix market prices on any item. A succes will be simply if we can spend less time updating orders as a result of us not competing on the same orders any more.
by agreeing not to undercut people it is price fixing. pure and simple
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Sistar2
Solar Flames
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Posted - 2009.08.30 14:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: rubico1337
by agreeing not to undercut people it is price fixing. pure and simple
Do you even trade on the market? Price fixing involves buying up any orders that go below your own, it's a tough challenge even in the smallest of market sectors. I do it routinely myself on a VERY small scale.
Price fixing is NOT what's on the table here with the creation of this union, but of course it is something that we could experiment with along the way
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Brother Papalazaru
Amarr
Brother Papalazaru Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.07 16:30:00 -
[47]
Sistar, you invited me to your chat room, and from the off I was very adverse to it, asking all sorts of questions like the ones above. From what I could tell, apart from the room being very quiet, it seems that only much newer players are joining.
I can't see many experienced traders joining up, apart from maybe checking what you've got up for sale and then moving in with an alt to take your profits, it's just another channel to divert attention, and the signature business makes you visible, and by being visible, you are more vulnerable if somebody wants to take YOU on at some market PvP.
You're group will be too small to make a difference, and there are too many traders to deal with. And too many pitfalls to your idea.
You could make it work better on a corp basis rather than meta-corp imo.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:00:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Augeas on 07/09/2009 17:00:11
I don't do 0.01 ISK wars.
I do 500k ISK wars.
Can I still join?
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Rhivre
Caldari
Built to Last
New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:57:00 -
[49]
Well, I am in the channel...I dont do 0.01isk, nor 500k isk wars :)
Yes, there are some newer traders in there, and I am not sure this is a bad thing, much as I love the lounge, it can be a bit rough for asking for info in at times.
I have no aversion to newer traders, the more the merrier as far as I am concerned, and whilst the purpose of the channel (0.01isking) doesnt suit with my style of trading, networking is invaluable :)
But each to their own
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Gulnack
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.07 22:04:00 -
[50]
I like the idea of a traders meta-guild but this initiative can't work. It's not as though their are a handful of .01 isker's lurking in the shadows for you to combat. You are trying to alter market mechanics... everyone wants to buy/sell at the edge of the bid-ask spread. If someone is scooping you by .01 it's not simply because they are malitious it's because YOU didn't bid high enough or sell low enough for them to find no value in doing so. If you've ever watched the stock market from a traders desk this is exactly what the market makers do. The competition will not fade away until the bid-ask spread becomes too compressed for most people to tolerate and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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Teras Menac
Gallente
Caldari POS Constructions Inc.
The Ancients.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Teras Menac on 07/09/2009 23:33:19
Edited by: Teras Menac on 07/09/2009 23:27:49
Solution in need of a problem.
People who hate .01 bidding wars are people who shouldn't be market trading. You either find ways around it, or you participate but why *****? The only reason trading is a profitable venture really is because of the bidding wars. The only way to stop it is to price everything at a low margin, which won't really work because it'll just end trading as a fun profession. People will stop being traders because there is no money to be made, and then the prices will go back up and people will get back in the game and it will start again.
I don't see why people believe there is some sort of ethical obligation for us to lower our prices and cut our profit by a percentage point every time we bid. That's just stupid. The 0.01 bidding wars serve a function and that function is to keep from killing the spread so that we can make a profit.
Sistar I think you need to look up Price Fixing on wikipedia, because you are talking about price fixing and only show that you have no f'ing clue what you're talking about by arguing with people that it's price fixing. Your cartel/trust would be highly illegal in real life because price fixing is anti-free market. Not that it isn't done, just that sometimes companies are smacked for it. Look up Standard Oil. You clearly need to read some very very very basic info to make this work. Your ignorance of basic vocabulary keeps me out of your chatroom.
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clixoras
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Posted - 2009.09.08 00:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Teras Menac
I don't see why people believe there is some sort of ethical obligation for us to lower our prices and cut our profit by a percentage point every time we bid. That's just stupid. The 0.01 bidding wars serve a function and that function is to keep from killing the spread so that we can make a profit.
 without 0.01 bidding you will still make a profit. It is not that the spread is so thin for almost all items.
I don't engage in 0.01, although i don't operate from Jita, if someone engages in this, i will just cut the spread until the bidding stops. Eventually others will leave the market and prices can go up/down again. In that regards there is indeed no change needed :)
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.09.08 02:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Teras Menac
I don't see why people believe there is some sort of ethical obligation for us to lower our prices and cut our profit by a percentage point every time we bid. That's just stupid. The 0.01 bidding wars serve a function and that function is to keep from killing the spread so that we can make a profit.
For the same reason people think there is an ethical obligation to keep a nice margin for traders. Like we're all buddy buddy or something.
I don't particularly care if "we" make a profit or not. I care if I make one and only when making a profit is my goal.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Sistar2
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:13:00 -
[54]
DECLARATION:
I apologise sincerely for using humour in my thread title, I did not have any idea that doing this would cost such a shock among the community of the MD. It is clear to me now that after seing the title of the thread, few of the members of the forum have been able to read the actual post  wherein it is clearly stated that this initiative will not end all isk wars but make somewhat easier for you if you do participate in 0.01 isking.
So just to reiterate:
A) there is (as of yet) no intention of manipulating market prices to a certain level by using the combined forces of union members. This is not to say that members are not doing it, cause they certainly are every day.
B) There is no illusion of ending ALL 0.01 isk wars, just to cooperate wherever possible.
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Sistar2
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:24:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Teras Menac
People who hate .01 bidding wars are people who shouldn't be market trading. You either find ways around it, or you participate but why b*itch?
Dear Teras, like most here, you are looking at this from the wrong end of the stick. I don't hate 0.01 isking, it's what I do for a living and I enjoy my living. The post, if you read it, was adressed to people who hate ME for doing it
... but more to the point, adressed to those who do it on a daily basis. Just because a method is succesfull doesn't mean you cannot add to that succes. So, rather than b*itch about others, I am the kind of person who takes initiative, which is what I have done here. See the difference?
But hey, thanks for bumping my thread...
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Rene Sauntier
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Posted - 2009.09.08 08:26:00 -
[56]
Laudable idea, ma'am. Unfortunately flawed. Business cartels only work with muscle to bump off the competition, whether this comes from guns (blow ups) or money (buy outs).
I would join your cartel if the option to fund a merc gate camp in everygate in Jita, which eliminates the people that undercut us existed. (bump outs)
imho buy outs blow ups and bump outs if this scale are infeasibly expensive.
Rene
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