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Tanking the hulk: medium ancillary shield booster

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FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 1617	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:21:00 - [31] - Quote Ituhata Saken wrote: I'd be a little wary, I'd rather go full buffer tank for about 29k EHP myself. To be honest, there's not a lot to be done about defending against alpha. If someone wants to alpha a hulk, they will do it. The question is, would this survive a destroyer gank, which relies on DPS overcoming a buffer before concord arrives, better than that 29k EHP? As I said, this is very much a new idea and could probably be improved. Simetraz wrote: You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null. Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ? You try solo mining in null and then ask me that question. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 1617	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:23:00 - [32] - Quote EnslaverOfMinmatar wrote: [Hulk, Cheap Ungankable Hulk] Damage Control II Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That's quite a killmail waiting to happen. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you.
Ituhata Saken Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 211	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:34:00 - [33] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Ituhata Saken wrote: I'd be a little wary, I'd rather go full buffer tank for about 29k EHP myself. To be honest, there's not a lot to be done about defending against alpha. If someone wants to alpha a hulk, they will do it. The question is, would this survive a destroyer gank, which relies on DPS overcoming a buffer before concord arrives, better than that 29k EHP? As I said, this is very much a new idea and could probably be improved. . I just kinda did fuzzy math in my head, i think a catalyst does about 700dps with the booster subtracting 200 of that, I think the bigger buffer would be safer. I am in no way proclaiming I am right, just my own opinion. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~
Malphilos State War Academy Caldari State 74	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:39:00 - [34] - Quote Ituhata Saken wrote: Malphilos wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this? Because it's no fun without targets. Correction, it's no fun without smart targets. I now have an urge to re-read The Most Dangerous Game. EDIT: Correction, its been long time since i read that in school. I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears. I think there's something a little more interesting going on.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:42:00 - [35] - Quote Richard Desturned wrote: [Hulk, New Setup 2] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Mining Drone II x5 37k ehp against blasters but hey I guess 15% more yield is more important than surviving because CCP will make hisec safer for you right? For some reason I can't take this fit seriously. That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk.
Ituhata Saken Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 211	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:43:00 - [36] - Quote Malphilos wrote: I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears. I think there's something a little more interesting going on. They are decoy tears to confuse you!!! You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:49:00 - [37] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: . That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk. You're right about the rest of the fit (hint: look at the title of the ship, it's a troll), but DG non-Invulns aren't that expensive, like 20mil maybe (I just checked the DG Thermic, it's 8mil, the others are different though). They're just T2 equivalents with lower fitting requirements. I used them on my ratting Drakes before my fitting skills were up to snuff.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 717	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:49:00 - [38] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: For some reason I can't take this fit seriously. That DG Thermic field is like 70M. "Gank me!" should be proper name for that Hulk. Wow someone doesn't bother to log in to check prices, it's 10m eh
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 1617	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:49:00 - [39] - Quote Ituhata Saken wrote: I just kinda did fuzzy math in my head, i think a catalyst does about 700dps with the booster subtracting 200 of that, I think the bigger buffer would be safer. I am in no way proclaiming I am right, just my own opinion. What would really make this fit shine would be a Tengu booster, pushing it up close to 500 DPS tanked. Buffer might be better, I dunno. I don't fly hulks any more, so I have no need to actually tank one. I'm just trying to put some new ideas out there and get those miners who DO tank their stuff to look into options. Because Eve is a lot more fun when you explore it, now matter how you do so. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 1617	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:51:00 - [40] - Quote Malphilos wrote: I think that's trivially false. Smart targets don't generate tears. I think there's something a little more interesting going on. Smart targets DO generate entertaining fights. I'd prefer to occasionally lose to smart targets than always win against dumb ones. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you.

Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:56:00 - [41] - Quote Richard Desturned wrote: Wow someone doesn't bother to log in to check prices, it's 10m Where do you think I got that 70M from if not in game. 70M is lowest in Jita.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 19:57:00 - [42] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Richard Desturned wrote: Wow someone doesn't bother to log in to check prices, it's 10m Where do you think I got that 70M from if not in game. 70M is lowest in Jita. 8 million is Jita price. I checked it moments ago (I bought my DG therms when faction loot was still on contract months ago). You're the worst at Eve ever. http://i.imgur.com/oceXH.jpg There's a screenshot for fun, taken just moments ago (check Eve time) The only DG shield hardeners that are worth anything are the Invulns, since they're the only ones that have better actual stats than T2.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:05:00 - [43] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: 8 million is Jita price. I checked it moments ago (I bought my DG therms when faction loot was still on contract months ago). You're the worst at Eve ever. http://i.imgur.com/oceXH.jpg There's a screenshot for fun, taken just moments ago (check Eve time) The only DG shield hardeners that are worth anything are the Invulns, since they're the only ones that have better actual stats than T2. Well, it's quite difficult to see Jita market prices ingame where my main is... Currently can only see prices in Domain.
Ituhata Saken Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 211	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:10:00 - [44] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Ituhata Saken wrote: I just kinda did fuzzy math in my head, i think a catalyst does about 700dps with the booster subtracting 200 of that, I think the bigger buffer would be safer. I am in no way proclaiming I am right, just my own opinion. What would really make this fit shine would be a Tengu booster, pushing it up close to 500 DPS tanked. Buffer might be better, I dunno. I don't fly hulks any more, so I have no need to actually tank one. I'm just trying to put some new ideas out there and get those miners who DO tank their stuff to look into options. Because Eve is a lot more fun when you explore it, now matter how you do so. I mostly fly Caldari so I'm used to omni-tank buffer shield fits when I pvp, especially if expecting alpha fleets. A good alpha fleet will never let you recover your lost hp in time, neither an active tank or even logistics could keep up. The suicide gank game is pretty much the same, take as big a chunk out as fast as possible before concord blaps you, so I would tend to create as big a buffer for them to chew through rather than trying to actively tank a smaller hp buffer zone. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:13:00 - [45] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Well, it's quite difficult to see Jita market prices ingame where my main is... Currently can only see prices in Domain. Jorma Morkkis wrote: Where do you think I got that 70M from if not in game. 70M is lowest in Jita. Hisec miners deliberately lying and being completely uneducated about things relating to tanks? Well I never!
Doctor Benway Kado GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 115	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:15:00 - [46] - Quote No thread could better demonstrate the carebear problem. A Hulk can easily be made unprofitable for a ganker whose in it for the isk (which generally means a Catalyst trying to kill the hulk in under 14 seconds), and prohibitively expensive for somebody doing it for enjoyment (Seriously? You think 3+ tornados are cheap?). But doing so requires giving something up. So they whine, and they moan, and they do anything except make a choice between isk and tank. They'd rather have everything for nothing. It's really rather pathetic. "But nullsec miners are safer!" They scream. So move to nullsec then, if you believe it. I won't challenge your assertion on this - perhaps nullsec IS safer, if you have friends. I will tell you a story though. The story of Zed Mike, the most glorious ganker to ever bedevil Deklein. Seriously, look at his killboard, the man is incredible. Well, last night some player from IRC, Lady Apsladar or some such, decided to ALSO go hunting in goon space with a Purifier. It was rather annoying, because now a red was camping my mining system. Sure, I was docked up and safe, so no risk there. And I could probably even still mine if I wanted to, since a Purifier isn't likely to have a probe launcher fitted. But it was possible that the grav sites had been scanned down ahead of time, and I decided I didn't want to take the risk. So either I could sit in station, or I could somehow get rid of the red. After some EFTing, I came up with this fit: [Bait Rokh] Heavy Energy Neutralizer II 7x Miner II Warp Disrupter II 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 'Prospector' EM Ward Amplifier 2x Sensor Booster I 2x EM Plating I Damage Control II 2x Mining Laser Upgrade I 5x Hobgoblin II 5x Mining Drone II It was a tight fit, just baaaarely workable with this character, and even then, only with the rather expensive implants I had installed. But I felt sure that, if the red came in with her Purifier, I would take her down. I had it all planned out - I'd mine in a belt, hoping to show up on the purifier's dscan. She would warp in, decloak - and then I would overheat the neut and the point, while my drones tore the ship apart. Of course, as the killboard shows, nothing of the sort happened. Either the red saw through the trap, or just didn't notice me mining. But the point is, I mined in a bait rokh for an hour - no whining about AFK cloaking. No depending on CONCORD. Complete and total knowledge that if I screwed up, I would die. So fit a damn tank already.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:19:00 - [47] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: Hisec miners deliberately lying and being completely uneducated about things relating to tanks? Well I never! Haven't mined for over month now. Still waiting a brave ganker to gank my Hulk tanked with shield buffer and station. 20M (+ 100M from Goons) easy money but no one is interested.
Cloned S0ul Blood Fanatics 104	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:19:00 - [48] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: So I've been messing around with the new ASB modules in pyfa, and I'm finding that one of [Hulk, Tankity] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Survey Scanner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I :D Try this Hulk with dual medium ancilary medium shield booster. High slots 3x strip miner t2. Med slots 2x medium ancilary shied booster. 2x invuls II low slots RCU II Micro auxilary power core II Rigs Medium proceror overclocing unit I Medium core defence shield extender I All skills to at lvl 5 401/401.6 cpu 62/67.56pg Win?
Pisov viet Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:20:00 - [49] - Quote Simetraz wrote: FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0. You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null. Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ? Because it's pointless in nullsec. If you get caught, you die, 99.99% of the time. 1 time out of ten thousand, the attacker wont have a point and the miner will manage to enter warp fast enough. Sacrificing yield for tank dont increase your survival chances, they're still (close to) null. In highsec, you can simply buffer your **** enough to not die. Think of it the other way: a nullsec ganker just have to worry on breaking the hulk regen and tanking 5*hobgoblins II. They could do 1 more DPS than the hulk is able to tank and still eventually bring it down. In highsec, the ganker have to maximize his setting for damages. No matter what, if the damages you can put on during the 10-15 seconds it takes for CONCORD to arrive is 1 point below the total buffer of the hulk, you're dead and you failed. Doesnt highsec seems much more unfair to the ganker?
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:22:00 - [50] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Haven't mined for over month now. Still waiting a brave ganker to gank my Hulk tanked with shield buffer and station. 20M (+ 100M from Goons) easy money but no one is interested. How could you tell if they were if you haven't mined in a month?

Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:27:00 - [51] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: How could you tell if they were if you haven't mined in a month? It's still on station in Brazinget... somewhere there. If someone destroys it I think it shouldn't be appearing in assets after search.
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide. 188	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:38:00 - [52] - Quote Simetraz wrote: FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0. You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null. Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ? Because most highsec miners don't have an alliance to protect them and seem to think they dont need to pay attention. 0.0 Hulks don't need any tank because they Monitor local Watch adjacent systems Have massive bubble camps on all in-routes Have a defensive fleet to kill hostile before they get there Watch D-Scan If Highsec miners did any of this they wouldn't need to compromise on yield either, but they don't.
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:41:00 - [53] - Quote IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Watch adjacent systems So, I need 7 alts just to do this? Alt-tabbing between all those clients every second would be annoying. IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Have a defensive fleet to kill hostile before they get there And get your defensive fleet destroyed by Concord and then you realize that it was just bait and real gankers cn do their ganking.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:41:00 - [54] - Quote IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: Because most highsec miners don't have an alliance to protect them and seem to think they dont need to pay attention. 0.0 Hulks don't need any tank because they Monitor local Watch adjacent systems Have massive bubble camps on all in-routes Have a defensive fleet to kill hostile before they get there Watch D-Scan If Highsec miners did any of this they wouldn't need to compromise on yield either, but they don't. I seriously love seeing highsec pubbies talking about life in nullsec. Hint: the only of those things that actually happens on a regular basis is the first one.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:43:00 - [55] - Quote Jorma Morkkis wrote: Snow Axe wrote: How could you tell if they were if you haven't mined in a month? It's still on station in Brazinget... somewhere there. If someone destroys it I think it shouldn't be appearing in assets after search. ahahahaha, on station in a highsec system. I wonder why nobody's ganked it yet derp derp
Jorma Morkkis State War Academy Caldari State 68	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:44:00 - [56] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: on station in a highsec system You think your titan is safe inside that POS forcefield?
Spikeflach Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis 61	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:46:00 - [57] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: Even if that were true (it's not, entirely. Different fleet compositions can serve entirely different purposes), it'd be seen as an acceptable sacrifice, i.e. part of the game. Anyone who PVP's knows that if you sacrifice your tank for anything else (sacrificing a shield tank for better lock times/tackle, or an armor tank for more DPS/mobility), you make yourself squishier, and you act accordingly. That's the big fundamental difference between the two attitudes. PVP'ers make balance sacrifices all the time, and it's seen as a matter of course. Miners, on the other hand, go full gank (yield) while ignoring the tank bonus of their chosen ship and then scream about imbalances when they end up easy to gank because of it. (note: I'm also not really telling YOU this, as I'm pretty sure you get it. This is more of a general screed for the dumbs that post **** like "WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO SACRIFICE YIELD"). Maybe its wrong to try to compare PvP with mining. As most people don't go out in a hulk expecting to engage in combat with another player... If there should be a comparison, then it should be the fact that PvP ships should fit more tank along the lines that you'll survive longer and have less of a chance of being "alphad". There is some grounds of people asking why yield should be sacrificed, when people are saying that it has to be sacrificed in every portion of eve.
Spikeflach Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis 61	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:50:00 - [58] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: I seriously love seeing highsec pubbies talking about life in nullsec. Hint: the only of those things that actually happens on a regular basis is the first one. Hi sec dwellers* You want to make yourself look smart, knowledgeable, and believable? Stop being demeaning to people by labeling them with derogatory terms. I would also suggest that a very large amount of hi sec dwellers actually have vast amounts of knowledge of nullsec.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 363	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:51:00 - [59] - Quote Spikeflach wrote: Maybe its wrong to try to compare PvP with mining. As most people don't go out in a hulk expecting to engage in combat with another player... If there should be a comparison, then it should be the fact that PvP ships should fit more tank along the lines that you'll survive longer and have less of a chance of being "alphad". There is some grounds of people asking why yield should be sacrificed, when people are saying that it has to be sacrificed in every portion of eve. PVP was just a convenient example and the one that changes the most. It's the same in other aspects as well, though - Missioners have to strike a balance between tank and killing speed (depending on the mission and their own skills), as do complex people, wormhole people, anomaly runners, etc etc the list goes on. Even people hauling cargo through space have to strike a balance between cargo space and speed/agility, lest they make themselves easy targets. Every single activity in Eve, PvE or PvP, has ship fitting balance as a Thing You Have To Deal With. Mining is no different, no matter what a highsec Hulk pilot would like you to believe. Spikeflach wrote: I would also suggest that a very large amount of hi sec dwellers actually have vast amounts of knowledge of nullsec. Guess what? They're null alts.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 717	Posted - 2012.06.01 20:59:00 - [60] - Quote Spikeflach wrote: I would also suggest that a very large amount of hi sec dwellers actually have vast amounts of knowledge of nullsec. Yes and people who live in nullsec don't know anywhere near as much about life in nullsec as hisec hulk botters eh



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