Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1617
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've been messing around with the new ASB modules in pyfa, and I'm finding that one of the most interesting possibilities is giving the Hulk a 200 DPS tank on TOP of a 20k EHP buffer. Pfya lists this as having 20.5k EHP with a 232.4 DPS tank while the booster is running. You can load the booster with ten cap booster 50s and run it cap stable for the duration of an attempted gank (assuming Pyfa is calculating the booster use properly)
It's not fool-proof and no matter what you do you're still vulnerable to two tornado volleys, but it might be a significant difference for those miners who actually pay attention to their surroundings and are able to react to ships appearing on grid.
Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this? Because it requires effort and sacrifice. Bots and afk miners need not apply; you have to be paying attention to use this. Max yield addicts who can't live without dual MLUs won't like it either because they'll give up that ~15% yield. I want the people--even the miners--who actually play the game and are willing to put in the time to research and test fits to succeed, this *might* give them an advantage over their afk, inattentive, and ignorant competition.
The fit is a little bit odd-looking and I'm sure could be improved upon. This is just a proof-of-concept at a mixed Hulk tank that might provide some much-needed active tanking. If you have ideas on giving it more tank without absurdly increasing the price, feel free to share.
[Hulk, Tankity]
Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Survey Scanner II
Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
No cargo expanders in lows? PASS |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
436
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
B-b-b-b-b-but that doesn't optimise my ISK/hr ratio at all! How can I possibly be expected to make fitting trade offs like everyone else does as a miner? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd be a little wary, I'd rather go full buffer tank for about 29k EHP myself.
You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.
Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think without using T2 rigs, the EHP of a hulk reaches around 28k?
And i believe the only real defense against an "Alpha" is EHP.
As this can possibly have its use, it makes "Alpha" easier. |
Price Check Aisle3
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hulks don't belong in high-sec. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
[Hulk, New Setup 2] Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Damage Control II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Mining Drone II x5
37k ehp against blasters but hey I guess 15% more yield is more important than surviving because CCP will make hisec safer for you right? eh |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.
Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?
because the nullsec miners actually play the game like a multiplayer game unlike the solo AFK mining botters like you eh |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:I think without using T2 rigs, the EHP of a hulk reaches around 28k?
And i believe the only real defense against an "Alpha" is EHP.
As this can possibly have its use, it makes "Alpha" easier.
Pretty close, I came up with this, of course, max skills.
Hulk You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Simetraz wrote:FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.
Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ? because the nullsec miners actually play the game like a multiplayer game unlike the solo AFK mining botters like you
No that is how they get ganked. The question is why should they sacrifice their yield. And go ahead and report me as a botter if you believe me to be one. EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:No that is why that ganked the question is why should they sacrifice their yield.
The current state of the game, what with the Hulk killing payouts, presents a choice: Fit tank and make yourself a hard/unattractive target, or fit for yield and die in a blaze the moment a gank fit Catalyst finds you.
These fits are proof that you have a CHOICE, and that the loss of your shitfit Hulk is not a result of game imbalances, but a result of your greed overriding your common sense. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:The question is why should they sacrifice their yield. And go ahead and report me as a botter if you believe me to be one.
Even with a tanked Hulk you still have superior yield to any conceivable fitting on any other ship in the game. eh |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Simetraz wrote:No that is why that ganked the question is why should they sacrifice their yield. The current state of the game, what with the Hulk killing payouts, presents a choice: Fit tank and make yourself a hard/unattractive target, or fit for yield and die in a blaze the moment a gank fit Catalyst finds you. These fits are proof that you have a CHOICE, and that the loss of your shitfit Hulk is not a result of game imbalances, but a result of your greed overriding your common sense.
Choice. Did you know that a hulk gives a 15 % bonus to yield (at level 5) So wouldn't it make more sense to just fly a Covetor then worry about tanking a Hulk ?
And if Hulks don't belong in high-sec then CCP should ban ALL T2 and T3 ships from high-sec. They really have no business being there. In fact we should prevent them from even being made in high-sec.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Choice. Did you know that a hulk gives a 15 % bonus to yield (at level 5) So wouldn't it make more sense to just fly a Covetor then worry about tanking a Hulk ?
15% from the Exhumers skill at V and 15% from Mining Barge V. You don't even know how your own ships work. Also 37.5% to shield resistances at Exhumers V - funny, that looks like a TANK skill to me, almost as if it's what your ship was meant to do?
Just the same, if a Covetor provides even yield and less risk, then it's...wait for it..YOUR CHOICE!
Simetraz wrote:And if Hulks don't belong in high-sec then CCP should ban ALL T2 and T3 ships from high-sec. They really have no business being there. In fact we should prevent them from even being made in high-sec.
Ban Strat Cruisers and Marauders from L4 missions and Macks from mining Ice AFK?
This'd be the funniest thing ever. |
Maledictum Aideron
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Simetraz wrote:No that is why that ganked the question is why should they sacrifice their yield. The current state of the game, what with the Hulk killing payouts, presents a choice: Fit tank and make yourself a hard/unattractive target, or fit for yield and die in a blaze the moment a gank fit Catalyst finds you. These fits are proof that you have a CHOICE, and that the loss of your shitfit Hulk is not a result of game imbalances, but a result of your greed overriding your common sense. Choice. And if Hulks don't belong in high-sec then CCP should ban ALL T2 and T3 ships from high-sec. They really have no business being there. In fact we should prevent them from even being made in high-sec.
+ eleventy
|
Sarton Wells
Blackmoon Ltd.
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:The question is why should they sacrifice their yield. And go ahead and report me as a botter if you believe me to be one.
You don't have to sacrifice yield. If you're comfortable with the risk of losing the hulk then you don't need any tank. It's not like your hulk blows up if you undock with no tank. It's your choice whether you want to risk it or play it safer. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Simetraz wrote:Choice. Did you know that a hulk gives a 15 % bonus to yield (at level 5) So wouldn't it make more sense to just fly a Covetor then worry about tanking a Hulk ? 15% from the Exhumers skill at V and 15% from Mining Barge V. You don't even know how your own ships work. Also 37.5% to shield resistances at Exhumers V - funny, that looks like a TANK skill to me, almost as if it's what your ship was meant to do? Just the same, if a Covetor provides even yield and less risk, then it's...wait for it..YOUR CHOICE! Simetraz wrote:And if Hulks don't belong in high-sec then CCP should ban ALL T2 and T3 ships from high-sec. They really have no business being there. In fact we should prevent them from even being made in high-sec. Ban Strat Cruisers and Marauders from L4 missions and Macks from mining Ice AFK? This'd be the funniest thing ever.
You guys are the ones that believe that Hulks have no business in High-sec. If Hulks don't belong there then neither does any other T2 or T3 ship.
Yes it is completely stupid as stupid as trying to tell a miner they need to tank there hulk on the off chance they might get ganked. And telling people to tank there is even funny coming from a null alliance where you know very well PvP ships are set up as gank first then tank configurations.
This has been fun but spout your rhetoric to the puppies you got ganking for you. This has been fun but moving on now. EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3970
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Because your yeild turns to 0 when the hulk is blown up.
|
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well, It's actually been a really long time since i mined, i think the trend going is mining is starting to cease in hi sec.
This will raise low end mineral values because every 0.0 alliance in eve gets their low end minerals from hi sec.
This will drive the 0.0 miners to hi sec because they can make the absolutely same amount of isk in hi sec as 0.0.
Furthermore, Reducing yield is like fittinig more tank on your PvP ship at the expense of dps. I believe the PvP trend is mostly to have the right amount of dps otherwise your fit is gimped. |
|
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why would I fit a tank and get less iskies when I can just stomp my feet and pout on the forums? |
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
125
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.
Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?
If you want you can play the game the nullsec miners do, and get safe every time anyone you don't have set blue enters local. No tank needed, there, and you can fit for cargo and yield.
Risk vs reward, sunshine. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Furthermore, Reducing yield is like fittinig more tank on your PvP ship at the expense of dps. I believe the PvP trend is mostly to have the right amount of dps otherwise your fit is gimped.
Even if that were true (it's not, entirely. Different fleet compositions can serve entirely different purposes), it'd be seen as an acceptable sacrifice, i.e. part of the game. Anyone who PVP's knows that if you sacrifice your tank for anything else (sacrificing a shield tank for better lock times/tackle, or an armor tank for more DPS/mobility), you make yourself squishier, and you act accordingly.
That's the big fundamental difference between the two attitudes. PVP'ers make balance sacrifices all the time, and it's seen as a matter of course. Miners, on the other hand, go full gank (yield) while ignoring the tank bonus of their chosen ship and then scream about imbalances when they end up easy to gank because of it.
(note: I'm also not really telling YOU this, as I'm pretty sure you get it. This is more of a general screed for the dumbs that post **** like "WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO SACRIFICE YIELD"). |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
You gonna get aped
34
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
[Hulk, Cheap Ungankable Hulk] Damage Control II Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Medium 'Canyon' Shield Extender
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07 or uninstall and DIAF |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this?
Because it's no fun without targets.
|
VaMei
Meafi Corp
168
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Did you know that a hulk gives a 15 % bonus to yield (at level 5) So wouldn't it make more sense to just fly a Covetor then worry about tanking a Hulk ?
Simetraz speaks Truth.
Compare the ROI of a Cov with an MLU-II to a tanked Hulk with no MLUs. Then consider that the Hulk will still die to any serious gank.
Once you discount the ineffective tank, the advantages of a max skilled Hulk are 6% yield, and a cargo bay. With Exhumer-IV, that yield bonus drops to 3%. For that, you put a 250Misk bull's eye on the line.
Do your self a favor. Fly a Cov, join an Op, and keep the other 200Misk safe in your wallet. |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Why am I, a griefer and supporter of ganking posting this? Because it's no fun without targets.
Correction, it's no fun without smart targets. I now have an urge to re-read The Most Dangerous Game.
EDIT: Correction, its been long time since i read that in school. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
why not just fit a covetors with two medium overclocking rigs and two MLU IIs and mine away at full Hulk yield - 3% exhumer bonus per level
85% of a hulk's max yield, 1/10 of the cost and fully T1 insurable
oh well |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
But but but I could still be ganked by like 5 tornadoes anyway, so it doesn't matter anyway, I should just leave my mids empty. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:why not just fit a covetors with two medium overclocking rigs and two MLU IIs and mine away at full Hulk yield - 3% exhumer bonus per level
oh well
See it isn't that hard People just need to think, and not let someone else dictate what your going to do. EVERYBODY KNOWS |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |