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Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 750	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:40:00 - [61] - Quote Maddy Joringer wrote: How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue.... Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way .... BTW..am brand new..... I think I am gonna promote the ganker gank squads from now on. Use a gank fit Catalyst with SEBOs, with a gank alt, and if anyone acts remotely like they are gonna gank you, you shoot them before they even get the chance. And since sec status is apparently so easy to grind back up, you have no real drawbacks to this approach Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Price Check Aisle3 53	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:43:00 - [62] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: I think I am gonna promote the ganker gank squads from now on. Use a gank fit Catalyst with SEBOs, with a gank alt, and if anyone acts remotely like they are gonna gank you, you shoot them before they even get the chance. And since sec status is apparently so easy to grind back up, you have no real drawbacks to this approach This would be hilarious if someone did it. Also a good introduction in how to low-/null-sec, made even easier by the fact that you're really not risking anything by taking your gank alt out to rat.
Price Check Aisle3 53	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:44:00 - [63] - Quote ofc, it would require someone to be paying attention at the keyboard in order to preemptively gank... vOv
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 466	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:47:00 - [64] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: Almost none of the Hulk ganks are using alpha, though. Why not? Admittedly I am not the market expert, but isn't a good alpha dessie cheaper than a good dps dessie? (aside, i might have to log in again, get me 20 or 30 catalysts and try some things out... ) Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 750	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:50:00 - [65] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: Snow Axe wrote: Almost none of the Hulk ganks are using alpha, though. Why not? Admittedly I am not the market expert, but isn't a good alpha dessie cheaper than a good dps dessie? (aside, i might have to log in again, get me 20 or 30 catalysts and try some things out... ) Not since the hybrid buff made blasters a viable weapon again. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 376	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:54:00 - [66] - Quote Maddy Joringer wrote: sweetrock wrote: There is no feesable way to protect from gankers, there are items such as ship scanners which tells gankers what your ships fitting is. If your flying a small ship they will gank you in something small, if your in a freighter and they want to kill you, they come in numbers with larger ships. You CANNOT defend yourself from gankers what so ever! The reality is, gank ships are cheap and usuialy flown by alts ot people with massive amounts of isk in thier wallet, they try once and fail, they will come back again on principle and get the job done. that's sad to hear. this sounds more like an exploit .. IF there is a lack of effective counter for ganking This is not an exploit according to CCP. If you want to mine safely, do the following: 1. Stay at least 10 jumps away from the nearest trade hub. Most gankers don't roam very far (3-6 jumps) from these hubs as AFK miners generally tend to stay close to hubs. 2. Mine in isolated systems where very little to almost no one visits. They are plentiful. You just need to look for them. 3. Stay aware from systems next door to low-sec systems unless that patch of low-sec is not so popular for a variety of reasons. 4. Train up for Covert Ops ships that specialize in scanning systems. Scanning Gravimetric sites can be easy with the right skills and most gankers don't usually scan grav sites for their targets. Only a handful of gankers actually do scan down their targets and even then it takes time to scan, thus giving the grav site miner time to escape. 5. Never fit anything more expensive than a T2 mod. Avoid T2 rigs as well. Expensive mods are attractive to profit-driven gankers. 6. Tanking a Hulk can discourage most gankers who are too cheap to either attack with a more expensive ship or too cheap to share the wealth with a partner if they are profit driven. A Hulk can tank up to 30,000 EHP if fitted and fleeted properly. 7. Strategize. Plan for the worse. Assume that somehow, someone will find you and try to gank you. 8. Be nomadic. A target that keeps moving is a target not worth chasing if the gankers are only concerned with cornering a local market. This plan can fail, however, if the target is hated enough by the gankers that it makes it worth it for the gankers to chase said target. You had to have pissed them off enough times for this to happen. 9. Drop the Hulk and Mack and go for the Skiff. Then head out into a low-sec system that sees little to no traffic. For this, it's better to ninja mine and scan for grav sites. The skiff is a great ship to mine in low-sec because it is fast for its class and is designed primary to sneak in, ninja mine, and get out. It's also cheap. 10. Make it a habit to make safe spots. These will be useful for logging out in case the gates are camped and you don't want to risk losing your ship or exposing what you have. Please remember to only log off when you don't have any aggression timers on you. 11. Don't give out any tears. Gankers thrive on your hatred towards them. Ranting and raging will only serve to make you a more juicy target to go after. 12. Study the gankers. If they make it a habit to study their prey, then you should make it a habit to study the gankers so that you know when to make your escape if you find yourself having to move out. There are tens thousands of systems to hide in. Use them. Adapt or Die
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 1757	Posted - 2012.06.03 18:58:00 - [67] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Asuri Kinnes wrote: Snow Axe wrote: As soon as the ganker shoots you in highsec, they get a GCC, which allows other players to shoot them for 15 minutes, meaning any player who is nearby that wants to shoot back at the ganker can go right ahead. CONCORD just prevents you from pre-emptively shooting at the ganker without having the same set of consequences they do when they gank. As soon as the ganker shoots, shooting back is pointless, as their objective has already been accomplished. I know, I used to do it. Modern ganks are DPS based, not Alpha based, and require every second of the CONCORD response time to kill their targets. Alpha isn't as cheap as it was when Pend Inc. subsidized it. It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better... A tornado costs 70m. 10m per Hulk isn't gonna pay that off fast. And arty Thrashers don't have much more alpha than Catalysts. Basically, people have been using blasters to kill Hulks for a while now (pre-insurance nerf it was Thoraxes and Brutixes, now it's Catalysts) because Alpha is much more expensive than DPS. Alpha is still king for freighters, ofc (though, band of Gank Taloses...) Single-Shard, *Player Driven-áSandbox*. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
Aramatheia European Nuthouse 26	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:01:00 - [68] - Quote I have to admit im starting to think of ideas and ways to lure gankers and kill them before they can blow up one of my mining ships, or even if its possible to ambush them after they attempt to gank another player... skills i need, ships, fittings. I have planning and consideration to do. Yet im also operating my own mining operation which is slowly improving in resistance and durability. Also planning further hardening. My hulk (i dont mine in it yet) has slightly over 29k ehp, but im training to increase that to over 30k with t1 rigs and t2 hardeners
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 751	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:03:00 - [69] - Quote Aramatheia wrote: I have to admit im starting to think of ideas and ways to lure gankers and kill them before they can blow up one of my mining ships, or even if its possible to ambush them after they attempt to gank another player... skills i need, ships, fittings. I have planning and consideration to do. Yet im also operating my own mining operation which is slowly improving in resistance and durability. Also planning further hardening. My hulk (i dont mine in it yet) has slightly over 29k ehp, but im training to increase that to over 30k with t1 rigs and t2 hardeners This is what we like to see Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 466	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:19:00 - [70] - Quote Someone forum PM me - what DPS target are we looking at here for hulks? Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 1757	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:41:00 - [71] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: Someone forum PM me - what DPS target are we looking at here for hulks? You've got about 20s to kill it in .5 sec. An untanked Hulk has 9k EHP (so you need almost 500 DPS to kill it) A brick tanked Hulk has 30k EHP (so you need 16-1700 DPS to kill it) I think you can expect about 20m in Loot/Salvage and the 10m bounty. Single-Shard, *Player Driven-áSandbox*. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
qDoctor Strangelove Beware of the Red Fox 23	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:43:00 - [72] - Quote Maddy Joringer wrote: How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue.... Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way .... BTW..am brand new..... If you are defending against gankers, the ONLY thing that you are to do, is to keep the mark alive for 20 seconds. Then, as those 20 seconds elapse, KILL, the pod of the attacker. Forget hunting. Forget pre-emptive strikes. Forget about your 'alliance against gankers'. You just have to do ONE simple thing... shield the innocent for 20 seconds.. If you can manage to get miners to organize, something I doubt as they tend to be dumb as **** morons with macros getting free minerals to sell battleships to CFC enemies at below mineral cost in market PVP... then you can host system wide strip mining events. This will however never ever work, as you are trying to protect the lowest of the low and the weakest of the weak. Just let them DIE in peace instead. TL;DR: I have minerals stockpiled, please kill exhumers.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 737	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:45:00 - [73] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better... hey I forgot that a Tornado costs 10m+whatever you get from a hulk gank good2know eh
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 467	Posted - 2012.06.03 19:48:00 - [74] - Quote Richard Desturned wrote: Asuri Kinnes wrote: It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better... hey I forgot that a Tornado costs 10m+whatever you get from a hulk gank good2know Hey i didn't say a dam thing about the tornado, but go ahead and continue to be a ** heel... seems to be what you're good at. RubyPorto wrote: Asuri Kinnes wrote:** Someone forum PM me - what DPS target are we looking at here for hulks? You've got about 20s to kill it in .5 sec. An untanked Hulk has 9k EHP (so you need almost 500 DPS to kill it) A brick tanked Hulk has 30k EHP (so you need 16-1700 DPS to kill it) I think you can expect about 20m in Loot/Salvage and the 10m bounty. ty. /starts whistling the theme from "the good, the bad and the ugly"... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Spikeflach Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis 67	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:27:00 - [75] - Quote how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds?
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 467	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:32:00 - [76] - Quote Spikeflach wrote: how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds? .5 space? Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3200	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:42:00 - [77] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: A tornado costs 70m. 10m per Hulk isn't gonna pay that off fast. And arty Thrashers don't have much more alpha than Catalysts. Basically, people have been using blasters to kill Hulks for a while now (pre-insurance nerf it was Thoraxes and Brutixes, now it's Catalysts) because Alpha is much more expensive than DPS. Alpha is still king for freighters, ofc (though, band of Gank Taloses...) yeah alpha is basically for that moron with no tank but eight logistics buddies its always hilarious though, well worth the isk
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 1759	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:44:00 - [78] - Quote Spikeflach wrote: how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds? Google. Single-Shard, *Player Driven-áSandbox*. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 1759	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:47:00 - [79] - Quote Weaselior wrote: RubyPorto wrote: A tornado costs 70m. 10m per Hulk isn't gonna pay that off fast. And arty Thrashers don't have much more alpha than Catalysts. Basically, people have been using blasters to kill Hulks for a while now (pre-insurance nerf it was Thoraxes and Brutixes, now it's Catalysts) because Alpha is much more expensive than DPS. Alpha is still king for freighters, ofc (though, band of Gank Taloses...) yeah alpha is basically for that moron with no tank but eight logistics buddies its always hilarious though, well worth the isk [Hulk] KHAAAAAAAAAAN [Basilisk] Ahm Helpeen Any suggestions on how to take out a brick Hulk with RR without spending almost 400m on Nados or getting 10 guys together to break reps in Catalysts? Single-Shard, *Player Driven-áSandbox*. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
Bossy Lady Aliastra Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:48:00 - [80] - Quote qDoctor Strangelove wrote: Maddy Joringer wrote: How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue.... Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way .... BTW..am brand new..... If you are defending against gankers, the ONLY thing that you are to do, is to keep the mark alive for 20 seconds. Then, as those 20 seconds elapse, KILL, the pod of the attacker. Forget hunting. Forget pre-emptive strikes. Forget about your 'alliance against gankers'. You just have to do ONE simple thing... shield the innocent for 20 seconds.. If you can manage to get miners to organize, something I doubt as they tend to be dumb as **** morons with macros getting free minerals to sell battleships to CFC enemies at below mineral cost in market PVP... then you can host system wide strip mining events. This will however never ever work, as you are trying to protect the lowest of the low and the weakest of the weak. Just let them DIE in peace instead. TL;DR: I have minerals stockpiled, please kill exhumers. 20 seconds is a long ole time for remote repair to kick in. RR works fine against DPS ganking; it is only ineffective vs alpha ganking. Forcing gankers to change from cheap destroyers to expensive Tornados radically alters the situation - financially and also in terms of required SP. Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3200	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:50:00 - [81] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: [Hulk] KHAAAAAAAAAAN [Basilisk] Ahm Helpeen Any suggestions on how to take out a brick Hulk with RR without spending almost 400m on Nados or getting 10 guys together to break reps in Catalysts? punt either the repper or the hulk with a stabber fleet issue, dps gank the hulk
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3200	Posted - 2012.06.03 20:55:00 - [82] - Quote alternatively if the basilisk is not moving and untanked (this happens on occasion): gank the basilisk
RubyPorto SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 1760	Posted - 2012.06.03 21:07:00 - [83] - Quote Thanks. Single-Shard, *Player Driven-áSandbox*. 5 words. That's what makes it special.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 741	Posted - 2012.06.03 21:29:00 - [84] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: Richard Desturned wrote: Asuri Kinnes wrote: It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better... hey I forgot that a Tornado costs 10m+whatever you get from a hulk gank good2know Hey i didn't say a dam thing about the tornado, but go ahead and continue to be a **** heel... seems to be what you're good at. Because other alpha options are as cost effective or viable eh
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 752	Posted - 2012.06.03 21:42:00 - [85] - Quote Weaselior wrote: alternatively if the basilisk is not moving and untanked (this happens on occasion): gank the basilisk I was about to say this, but for some reason I always assume its a scimi.... I love the thought of someone trying to gank a alphafleet scimi in a 70km orbit Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Heinrich Rotwang Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.06.04 00:06:00 - [86] - Quote Bossy Lady wrote: Heinrich Rotwang wrote: The problem is, compared to Eves usual timescales to achieve anything (eg. months and years to train skills), sec status has little to no meaning. The whole outlaw thing is being invalidated by the short period of time it takes an experienced player to work back from public enemy to good standing. Feels like 2 hours of community work for murder: its still somewhat of a consequence, but it just doesn't feel appropriate. Working back up from -10 is quite a grind. It's not something that you can do in "a couple of hours" let me assure you. You need to smartbomb half of j 4-4 undock range to get to -10 in the first place. Working back from -10 may be a grind, but working back from a single gank isn't. More so if you have access to ring ratting BSs in gated community null. I podded some guy in hisec and after 15 minutes I was able to happily roam hisec again. Plus I already worked back to -0.9 with hisec rats and little efforts/casual playstyle.
Maddy Joringer United Society of Xziles The Skeleton Crew 9	Posted - 2012.06.04 00:42:00 - [87] - Quote Sarah Schneider wrote: Richard Desturned wrote: The key is to remove CONCORD so that suicide gankers can be preemptively attacked. +1 Love it when what the OP wants gives out exactly the opposite result. :p PS: RubyPorto for CSM!!! Quote me where i said something of that sort... Another one of those troll / mudslingers.. When will your sort ever learn... Either do a civilised debate or stay away...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 7635	Posted - 2012.06.04 01:11:00 - [88] - Quote Spikeflach wrote: how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds? Because it depends on where you are and how you're counting. I just decided to go test it for myself and came to the conclusion that pretty much all numbers thrown around are correctGÇª in their own way. In a 1.0 system, the fight is over in anywhere between 2 and 13 seconds, depending on where CONCORD is at the moment (7 seconds if it's a GÇ£cleanGÇ¥ system). The actual destruction of the criminal happens after 17GÇô28 seconds, but that extra time is spend without being able to lock and shoot any target, without any drones, and without any cap. Some dexterous and well-timed cap-injecting might let you get off as many as 3 pulses of smartbombs in that period (but most likely it'll just be one or two). In a 0.7 system, the base response time has increased to 10 seconds (if you pre-spawn CONCORD, it's somewhere in the region of 6 seconds; if you herd CONCORD away from the attack spot, it's up to 16 seconds), and the same 15 seconds of the criminal being jammed/neuted applies. In a 0.5 system, the base time has increased to 18 seconds (pre-spawning CONCORD can reduce that to 9; herding CONCORD way adds another 6 seconds), and you're still looking at the same 15 seconds of criminal helplessness. So, at the very most, in a prepped 0.5 system an attack can go on for as long as 24 seconds before the criminal ship is locked out of the fight by CONCORD, and the ship will not actually be destroyed until after 39 seconds (but again, those extra 15 seconds can only be used to activate smartbombs). Without preparation, and with no highslots wasted on low-damage weapons, you only have to survive for less than 20 seconds. Oh, and the reason it takes 15 seconds for the ship to die is that the CONCORD cruisers are sillly-weak as far as damage goes: they deliver a combined alpha of 2,000 damage every 5 seconds, and with 15 seconds before the battleship finishes the job, they only get off 8,000 damage totalGÇª after that, the Police Commander sets your HP to zero so no amount of HP will save you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ CONCORD spawn times.

CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 563	Posted - 2012.08.02 10:34:00 - [89] - Quote Nice blog on the CONCORD response-time experiment. How long did it take you to work through all those test cases, considering you can do one at most every 15 minutes (without the parallel possibilities of using alts)? "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law

Eron Relentless The Scope Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.08.02 11:18:00 - [90] - Quote How to deal with gankers? Put as much pressure on CCP to reinforce mining ships and hasten CONCORD as possible. Which will to some extent happen in the next patch and hopefully in the following one aswell and the following one and the following one. CCP is a company and EVE is a product they make money out of. Easy ganking leads to a lot of unhappy paying customers which eventually leads to a lot of cancelled subscriptions which leads do unhappy CCP. The more new players are among the cancelled subs the worst, because new players are much more interesting from business POV than a bitter ganking vet ready to drop the game anyway because of 1547859 other issues he constantly complains about. Ganking is a part time hobby of in fact a relatively small group of bored fags trying to have fun by taking away someone elses fun or to manipulate the market by making mining harder and thus minerals => ships and mods more expensive. The latter being just another way of preventing less nerdy people with less playtime, less experience and less SP under their belts from having fun => leaving the game => less money for CCP. Thus, gankers are not really a profitable customer segment for CCP - small in numbers, ready to switch to other, albeit less manly and skillzor activites, such as shooting at a PvP fitted ship, bored and bitter anyway - likely close to the end of their customer cycle. CCP needs to pay their tech and their people and this is done by expanding customer base and selling more PLEX => through new customerseager to speed up their space careers, not through bored 0.0 *** alliances sitting on trillions of ISK hating everyone and everything in and about the game as they show us on the forums in daily bases. Therefore, CCP will more and more cater to the needs of average Joes who hate gankers and pay money to watch their shiny ships. Because its the new and middle aged pilots (who pay for their accounts and PvP with real money) who pay their bills and keep the business going, not a bunch of fat goons trying to control EVE out of their grandmothers basements. Suck it up, leetboi failures. Time is on our side.

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