As soon as the ganker shoots you in highsec, they get a GCC, which allows other players to shoot them for 15 minutes, meaning any player who is nearby that wants to shoot back at the ganker can go right ahead. CONCORD just prevents you from pre-emptively shooting at the ganker without having the same set of consequences they do when they gank.

Any ganker which shoots me in highsec is gonna get blown up by concord or me .. Gankers are suicide squads..the Trick is to preemptively attack them.... there is no point shooting a suicide bomber after he has blown himself up....

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

I like how you're new and yet you've already figured out how Eve works.

Hint: you have no clue how Eve works

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

People tell you that you have no clue how eve works. This is how eve works.

So your saying i can shoot at a Ganker before he attacks an Exhumer without me getting killed ?
If so how ?

Next time give a reply with some proper information rather than cheap shots.. am looking for a proper discussion and not a mud slinging contest

So your saying i can shoot at a Ganker before he attacks an Exhumer without me getting killed ?
If so how ?

Next time give a reply with some proper information rather than cheap shots.. am looking for a proper discussion and not a mud slinging contest

Is the ganker -5 or lower? Shoot him.

Is the ganker engaging an exhumer, thus getting a GCC? Shoot him.

Is the ganker being chased by faction police? Shoot him.

How do u defend against Gankers ?

The problem is the very narrow window of opportunity... You just need a lot of luck....
If concord does get like removed in which case gradually i do believe the game could get interesting.. Miners would be forced to work together with merc comrps to protect them... would be interesting...

There is no feesable way to protect from gankers, there are items such as ship scanners which tells gankers what your ships fitting is.

If your flying a small ship they will gank you in something small, if your in a freighter and they want to kill you, they come in numbers with larger ships.

You CANNOT defend yourself from gankers what so ever!


The reality is, gank ships are cheap and usuialy flown by alts ot people with massive amounts of isk in thier wallet, they try once and fail, they will come back again on principle and get the job done.

Any ganker which shoots me in highsec is gonna get blown up by concord or me .. Gankers are suicide squads..the Trick is to preemptively attack them.... there is no point shooting a suicide bomber after he has blown himself up....

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

that's sad to hear. this sounds more like an exploit .. IF there is a lack of effective counter for ganking

Any ganker which shoots me in highsec is gonna get blown up by concord or me .. Gankers are suicide squads..the Trick is to preemptively attack them.... there is no point shooting a suicide bomber after he has blown himself up....

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

A gank fit tornado has even less tank than a max yield hulk. How can it be impossible to gank back? Miners are helpless by choice not by game design.

Gank the gankers ?

How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue....

Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way ....

BTW..am brand new.....

Any ganker which shoots me in highsec is gonna get blown up by concord or me .. Gankers are suicide squads..the Trick is to preemptively attack them.... there is no point shooting a suicide bomber after he has blown himself up....

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

file a complaint with CCP.

Exactly, so the best defense is to just not do any mining and file a complaint with CCP.

this sounds more like an exploit .. IF there is a lack of effective counter for ganking

As soon as the ganker shoots you in highsec, they get a GCC, which allows other players to shoot them for 15 minutes

It takes 5 seconds to destroy Hulk. It takes 10 seconds to GCC flag to appear. No point on shooting them when gank is already over.

It takes 5 seconds to destroy Hulk. It takes 10 seconds to GCC flag to appear. No point on shooting them when gank is already over. After they lose their ship or eject they warp to station and wait there 15 minutes for GCC flag to drop.

It takes 5 seconds to destroy Hulk. It takes 10 seconds to GCC flag to appear. No point on shooting them when gank is already over. After they lose their ship or eject they warp to station and wait there 15 minutes for GCC flag to drop.

(That's the irony. We don't even talk about a Thorax. It's just a bloody destroyer that can be one volleyed by pretty much anything.)

Not true. With 3,8k EHP you need at least the Arty Tornado or the Tach Oracle.

(Gank alts tend not to have all those pesky tanking skills you need to have at 5 to get 3800 EHP on an untanked Dessie)

Slaves...

And only the stupid people would shoot your pod because they would get Concorded just for doing that.

The problem is, compared to Eves usual timescales to achieve anything (eg. months and years to train skills), sec status has little to no meaning. The whole outlaw thing is being invalidated by the short period of time it takes an experienced player to work back from public enemy to good standing. Feels like 2 hours of community work for murder: its still somewhat of a consequence, but it just doesn't feel appropriate.

The key is to remove CONCORD so that suicide gankers can be preemptively attacked.

Working back up from -10 is quite a grind. It's not something that you can do in "a couple of hours" let me assure you.

Slaves...

And only the stupid people would shoot your pod because they would get Concorded just for doing that.

Not with stealth bomber... And with that getting to those good systems (I know you need a good route that takes around 15 minutes). One BS per system.

Doesn't sound difficult even for carebear like me.

PS: RubyPorto for CSM!!!

As soon as the ganker shoots you in highsec, they get a GCC, which allows other players to shoot them for 15 minutes, meaning any player who is nearby that wants to shoot back at the ganker can go right ahead. CONCORD just prevents you from pre-emptively shooting at the ganker without having the same set of consequences they do when they gank.

As soon as the ganker shoots, shooting back is pointless, as their objective has already been accomplished.

I know, I used to do it.

Simply its said that you have a 15 second window of opportunity at MOST to pop the ganker. Doesn't guarantee the gankers target lives, and concord still might beat you to the punch. So any real valid ganking the ganker tactic is like trying to shoot the edge of a knife blade with a needle.

Does nobody realize that this guy is looking into fighting back against gankers instead of keeping his hulk safe from gankers?

Simply its said that you have a 15 second window of opportunity at MOST to pop the ganker. Doesn't guarantee the gankers target lives, and concord still might beat you to the punch. So any real valid ganking the ganker tactic is like trying to shoot the edge of a knife blade with a needle.

800mm Nado will 1 or 2 volley a gank Dessie, killing it well before CONCORD spawns or the tanked target dies. A rook/blackbird with a bunch of Gallente ECM will also mess up the ganker's day.

If you really want to fight someone on your own merits, without CONCORD stepping in to stop you from popping the ganker, mine in Lowsec.

An extremely limited amount of time to do a large portion of DPS before CONCORD arrives. Yeah, that sounds hardly possible to me and not at all like anything else that is currently going on in-game. Nope, not at all. Completely unique and really ~difficult~.

Modern ganks are DPS based, not Alpha based, and require every second of the CONCORD response time to kill their targets.

Alpha isn't as cheap as it was when Pend Inc. subsidized it.

How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue....

Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way ....

BTW..am brand new.....

I think I am gonna promote the ganker gank squads from now on. Use a gank fit Catalyst with SEBOs, with a gank alt, and if anyone acts remotely like they are gonna gank you, you shoot them before they even get the chance.

And since sec status is apparently so easy to grind back up, you have no real drawbacks to this approach

Almost none of the Hulk ganks are using alpha, though.

Why not?

Admittedly I am *not* the market expert, but isn't a good alpha dessie cheaper than a good dps dessie?

(aside, i might have to log in again, get me 20 or 30 catalysts and try some things out... )

that's sad to hear. this sounds more like an exploit .. IF there is a lack of effective counter for ganking

It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better...

I have to admit im starting to think of ideas and ways to lure gankers and kill them before they can blow up one of my mining ships, or even if its possible to ambush them after they attempt to gank another player... skills i need, ships, fittings. I have planning and consideration to do.

Yet im also operating my own mining operation which is slowly improving in resistance and durability. Also planning further hardening. My hulk (i dont mine in it yet) has slightly over 29k ehp, but im training to increase that to over 30k with t1 rigs and t2 hardeners

Someone forum PM me - what DPS target are we looking at here for hulks?

How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue....

Yesterday i saw a known ganker come into a system and there was nothing i could do about it, coz if i ever attacked him i would get blown up by concord... I was actually thinking in the lines of creating an anti ganking unit or.... Miner protection squads...but. I don't have a clue how to do it if concord gets in the way ....

BTW..am brand new.....

It's cheaper now that GS are subsidizing it even better...

hey I forgot that a Tornado costs 10m+whatever you get from a hulk gank

good2know

You've got about 20s to kill it in .5 sec.

An untanked Hulk has 9k EHP (so you need almost 500 DPS to kill it)
A brick tanked Hulk has 30k EHP (so you need 16-1700 DPS to kill it)

I think you can expect about 20m in Loot/Salvage and the 10m bounty.

how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds?

A tornado costs 70m. 10m per Hulk isn't gonna pay that off fast. And arty Thrashers don't have much more alpha than Catalysts.

Basically, people have been using blasters to kill Hulks for a while now (pre-insurance nerf it was Thoraxes and Brutixes, now it's Catalysts) because Alpha is much more expensive than DPS.

Alpha is still king for freighters, ofc (though, band of Gank Taloses...)

how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds?

yeah alpha is basically for that moron with no tank but eight logistics buddies

its always hilarious though, well worth the isk

If you are defending against gankers, the ONLY thing that you are to do, is to keep the mark alive for 20 seconds.
Then, as those 20 seconds elapse, KILL, the pod of the attacker.

Forget hunting.
Forget pre-emptive strikes.
Forget about your 'alliance against gankers'.

You just have to do ONE simple thing... shield the innocent for 20 seconds..

If you can manage to get miners to organize, something I doubt as they tend to be dumb as **** morons with macros getting free minerals to sell battleships to CFC enemies at below mineral cost in market PVP... then you can host system wide strip mining events.

This will however never ever work, as you are trying to protect the lowest of the low and the weakest of the weak.
Just let them DIE in peace instead.




TL;DR:
I have minerals stockpiled, please kill exhumers.

[Hulk] KHAAAAAAAAAAN
[Basilisk] Ahm Helpeen


Any suggestions on how to take out a brick Hulk with RR without spending almost 400m on Nados or getting 10 guys together to break reps in Catalysts?

Hey i didn't say a dam thing about the tornado, but go ahead and continue to be a **** heel... seems to be what you're good at.

alternatively if the basilisk is not moving and untanked (this happens on occasion): gank the basilisk

Working back up from -10 is quite a grind. It's not something that you can do in "a couple of hours" let me assure you.

+1

Love it when what the OP wants gives out exactly the opposite result. :p

PS: RubyPorto for CSM!!!

how did the 15 second gank the ganker window all the sudden become 20 seconds?

There is no feesable way to protect from gankers, there are items such as ship scanners which tells gankers what your ships fitting is.

If your flying a small ship they will gank you in something small, if your in a freighter and they want to kill you, they come in numbers with larger ships.

You CANNOT defend yourself from gankers what so ever!


The reality is, gank ships are cheap and usuialy flown by alts ot people with massive amounts of isk in thier wallet, they try once and fail, they will come back again on principle and get the job done.

How to deal with gankers? Put as much pressure on CCP to reinforce mining ships and hasten CONCORD as possible. Which will to some extent happen in the next patch and hopefully in the following one aswell and the following one and the following one.

CCP is a company and EVE is a product they make money out of. Easy ganking leads to a lot of unhappy paying customers which eventually leads to a lot of cancelled subscriptions which leads do unhappy CCP. The more new players are among the cancelled subs the worst, because new players are much more interesting from business POV than a bitter ganking vet ready to drop the game anyway because of 1547859 other issues he constantly complains about.

Ganking is a part time hobby of in fact a relatively small group of bored fags trying to have fun by taking away someone elses fun or to manipulate the market by making mining harder and thus minerals => ships and mods more expensive. The latter being just another way of preventing less nerdy people with less playtime, less experience and less SP under their belts from having fun => leaving the game => less money for CCP.

Thus, gankers are not really a profitable customer segment for CCP - small in numbers, ready to switch to other, albeit less manly and skillzor activites, such as shooting at a PvP fitted ship, bored and bitter anyway - likely close to the end of their customer cycle.

CCP needs to pay their tech and their people and this is done by expanding customer base and selling more PLEX => through new customerseager to speed up their space careers, not through bored 0.0 *** alliances sitting on trillions of ISK hating everyone and everything in and about the game as they show us on the forums in daily bases. Therefore, CCP will more and more cater to the needs of average Joes who hate gankers and pay money to watch their shiny ships. Because its the new and middle aged pilots (who pay for their accounts and PvP/PvE with real money) who pay their bills and keep the business going, not a bunch of fat goons trying to control EVE out of their grandmothers basements.

Suck it up, leetboi failures. Time is on our side.

I just decided to go test it for myself ...

Because it depends on where you are and how you're counting.

I just decided to go test it for myself and came to the conclusion that pretty much all numbers thrown around are correctGǪ in their own way.

In a 1.0 system, the fight is over in anywhere between 2 and 13 seconds, depending on where CONCORD is at the moment (7 seconds if it's a GÇ£cleanGÇ¥ system). The actual destruction of the criminal happens after 17GÇô28 seconds, but that extra time is spend without being able to lock and shoot any target, without any drones, and without any cap. Some dexterous and well-timed cap-injecting might let you get off as many as 3 pulses of smartbombs in that period (but most likely it'll just be one or two).

In a 0.7 system, the base response time has increased to 10 seconds (if you pre-spawn CONCORD, it's somewhere in the region of 6 seconds; if you herd CONCORD away from the attack spot, it's up to 16 seconds), and the same 15 seconds of the criminal being jammed/neuted applies.

In a 0.5 system, the base time has increased to 18 seconds (pre-spawning CONCORD can reduce that to 9; herding CONCORD way adds another 6 seconds), and you're still looking at the same 15 seconds of criminal helplessness.

So, at the very most, in a prepped 0.5 system an attack can go on for as long as 24 seconds before the criminal ship is locked out of the fight by CONCORD, and the ship will not actually be destroyed until after 39 seconds (but again, those extra 15 seconds can only be used to activate smartbombs). Without preparation, and with no highslots wasted on low-damage weapons, you only have to survive for less than 20 seconds.

Oh, and the reason it takes 15 seconds for the ship to die is that the CONCORD cruisers are sillly-weak as far as damage goes: they deliver a combined alpha of 2,000 damage every 5 seconds, and with 15 seconds before the battleship finishes the job, they only get off 8,000 damage totalGǪ after that, the Police Commander sets your HP to zero so no amount of HP will save you.

If you are a new player you really have nothing to worry about.

Your gear will not be expensive enough to make ganking worth it.

Suck it up, leetboi failures. Time is on our side.

Any ganker which shoots me in highsec is gonna get blown up by concord or me .. Gankers are suicide squads..the Trick is to preemptively attack them.... there is no point shooting a suicide bomber after he has blown himself up....

Hence.... the game mechanics favours the gankers too much and makes miners in high sec totally helpless.... CCP should fix this....

Best way to defend against ganking is to watch the gates and stations in system for gankers. Post a warning when you spot the gankers.

Gankers hate grinding sec status between ganks.

How do u defend against Gankers ? am a new player and i honestly got no clue....

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages. All of them will work. Not all of them are perfect.

If ALL of these options do not work for you, please describe your very special situation, and I'll come up with a custom solution or call you names. You know, depending...

The problem is, compared to Eves usual timescales to achieve anything (eg. months and years to train skills), sec status has little to no meaning. The whole outlaw thing is being invalidated by the short period of time it takes an experienced player to work back from public enemy to good standing. Feels like 2 hours of community work for murder: its still somewhat of a consequence, but it just doesn't feel appropriate.

How to deal with gankers? Put as much pressure on CCP to reinforce mining ships and hasten CONCORD as possible. Which will to some extent happen in the next patch and hopefully in the following one aswell and the following one and the following one.

CCP is a company and EVE is a product they make money out of. Easy ganking leads to a lot of unhappy paying customers which eventually leads to a lot of cancelled subscriptions which leads do unhappy CCP. The more new players are among the cancelled subs the worst, because new players are much more interesting from business POV than a bitter ganking vet ready to drop the game anyway because of 1547859 other issues he constantly complains about.

Ganking is a part time hobby of in fact a relatively small group of bored fags trying to have fun by taking away someone elses fun or to manipulate the market by making mining harder and thus minerals => ships and mods more expensive. The latter being just another way of preventing less nerdy people with less playtime, less experience and less SP under their belts from having fun => leaving the game => less money for CCP.

Nice blog on the CONCORD response-time experiment. How long did it take you to work through all those test cases, considering you can do one at most every 15 minutes (without the parallel possibilities of using alts)?

Nice blog on the CONCORD response-time experiment. How long did it take you to work through all those test cases, considering you can do one at most every 15 minutes (without the parallel possibilities of using alts)?

Nice blog on the CONCORD response-time experiment. How long did it take you to work through all those test cases, considering you can do one at most every 15 minutes (without the parallel possibilities of using alts)?

These numbers are mostly correct and are in line with ours but you dont quite get the "hearding" part.

Slaves...

And only the stupid people would shoot your pod because they would get Concorded just for doing that.

Well you know what, they all GTFO eventually, regardless of whether the staff decides to newbiefy the game or not. They hate each other, they hate the game, they hate changes and most importantly, in EVE, they dont pay with real cash because theyre simply too rich to do so. Newbies, on the other hand, bring fresh real cash into the game.

If you are a new player you really have nothing to worry about.

Your gear will not be expensive enough to make ganking worth it.

Next time give a reply with some proper information rather than cheap shots.. am looking for a proper discussion and not a mud slinging contest

WTF is this post you mad or what a well fit frigate can easly make the ganker a bad day. Noob perhaps? dude?

Why would gankers need sec?

Give it a while maybe by December or so you will find out why they might want sec.
They do not need it now but that will change.