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Asillia
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Posted - 2009.09.02 14:35:00 -
[1]
Now I'm running and salvaging level 3s as I go with two accounts I'm starting to stockpile some isk, once I've trained and fitted tech2 salvs to my destroyer I want to think about training into a bigger salvboat to follow myself around. Being a low skill bc(soon to be bs) pilot I don't gank through missions too fast so speed isn't the biggest deal, mostly 7/8 high slots and respectable cargo availability, which ships do full time salvagers move up into after destroyers? And is it worth fitting suport modules in the lows/mids to help myself in missions or are their benefits not worth it?
Also a quick noob question, do I recall reading somewhere that MWDs don't work in some mission areas so abs are the pve speed boost of choice?
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Dictum Factum
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.09.02 14:47:00 -
[2]
Hurrican makes a nice salvage ship if you are lookng to use a BC for the job. An Exequror works well also, though it only has 4 high slots (but great cargo capacity). As for the MWD you are correct. Most missions will not allow their use, but they are quite viable for use after the mission has been turned in.
Fight my Brute! |
Brodde Dim
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2009.09.02 15:42:00 -
[3]
If you are seriously going full time salvaging and looting, the optimal would probably be a marauder, strategic cruiser or perhaps an orca.
If you are just salvaging an eris works well.
Then you have any other ship with 8 highs. Not optimal but works well.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.02 15:44:00 -
[4]
That's correct. MWDs don't work in any mission that has a gate.
And you really can't beat a Hurricane for salvaging, unless you want a billion-isk dedicated Marauder salvage boat.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:50:00 -
[5]
Both ABs and MWDs work better on frigates, cruiser and battleships than they do on destroyers and battlecruisers. That alone may be an argument for using a Marauder as a looting/salvaging ship.
The ideal setup might be the one I'll start testing in a few days: Me in a Golem with cargo expanders and cargo rigs, and 7 small tractor beams, and my alt in a destroyer (a Catalyst, IIRC) with 8 Salvager I (he can't use T2 yet) and salvage rigs.
The Golem will carry all the actual looted modules, the destroyer only needs the salvage items, and they take up little space, so it can be pimped for flight velocity even though that reduces cargo capacity.
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Salpad
C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Ninja Troll
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:52:00 -
[6]
I always used Destroyers. They have x8 high slots, go pretty quick using regular AB, and with cargo expansion mods in lows can hold a nice amount of stuffz.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:59:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Seriously Bored
That's correct. MWDs don't work in any mission that has a gate.
This isn't true anymore. I don't do many missions nowadays, but I know AE4 lets you use MWDs ( did it this morning ).
OP: do you have a 2nd alt in the mission with you, as you seem to be implying, or are you cleaning up after?
If it's in the mission I'm gonna suggest a Typhoon, which barely takes any longer than a Hurricane to get to, but has both a huge drone bay so you can either assign drones to your primary ship or use logistics drones, huge capacity, and can fit a moderate tank too. OK it's a bit slow, but if you're salvaging as you kill that's not really that big a problem.
If you're cleaning up after, Orca + something small + fast seems the ideal combo, just jetcan the loot + haul the cans in with the orca.
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Kashre
Minmatar
Twenty Triumphant Turtles
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Posted - 2009.09.02 18:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Salpad
Both ABs and MWDs work better on frigates, cruiser and battleships than they do on destroyers and battlecruisers. That alone may be an argument for using a Marauder as a looting/salvaging ship.
The ideal setup might be the one I'll start testing in a few days: Me in a Golem with cargo expanders and cargo rigs, and 7 small tractor beams, and my alt in a destroyer (a Catalyst, IIRC) with 8 Salvager I (he can't use T2 yet) and salvage rigs.
The Golem will carry all the actual looted modules, the destroyer only needs the salvage items, and they take up little space, so it can be pimped for flight velocity even though that reduces cargo capacity.
To be honest I would just use the marauder. The tractor beam bonus cleans the field up super fast, which pretty much removes the need to flit all over the debris field. I use a Vargur on missions, once the mission is done just go back to station, refit with 3x tractor 4x salvager, and hoover things up. Having a speed fitted destroyer for salvage backup seems a bit superfluous.
+++
"Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa |
MN Norse
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Posted - 2009.09.02 18:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: MN Norse on 02/09/2009 18:45:28
Originally by: Ninja Troll
I always used Destroyers. They have x8 high slots, go pretty quick using regular AB, and with cargo expansion mods in lows can hold a nice amount of stuffz.
This works fine for me for L3s.
Sure an Orca, marauder, or strategic cruiser might be the holy grail of salvaging, I don't have that kinda money and I doubt you do either (being a low skill bc pilot).
Depending on how much you have to loot (and how big it is) you might want to upgrade your destroyer to a mining cruiser or a bc depending on how much money you want to spend. I fit a AB and a MWD to my destroyer, AB if gated, MWD if not. It really helps with that guy that went 60km away from everyone else. For L4s you are going to need something bigger than a destroyer or cruiser.
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Asillia
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Posted - 2009.09.02 19:05:00 -
[10]
Thanks for all the advice so far, and to clarify yes I'm dual boxing both ships in the mission at once so I think the Typhoon might be the best option, now I'm back from work I'll be playing with EFT to get some rough numbers to crunch and consider. I might not quite have the cash to go for a "holy grail" of salvaging yet but it's a long term goal I think I will train into soon enough, and just doing level 3s I'm raking in money faster than my SP can allow me to make use of it, soon be all +4 implants on both characters and everything I can skill for Tech II fitting I have already slotted delicious Tech II loot into, although I run both characters together I want my salvager to be maxxed out so I can run alongside others and salvage after them when I'm too lazy to mission myself but want some easy money and to make some friends so I think I will pass on my Hurricane (spaceships made of duct tape are awesome, screw drakezzzzzzZZZzZz) to my salvager until I can jump into the Typhoon and then slowly train/earn my way into one of the billion isk behemoths.
Thanks for all the advice, I barely know how to play this game and already I've got year long skill plans and pipe dreams I can't wait to play out, why did I not start playing EvE earlier. 
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.09.02 19:40:00 -
[11]
Hurricane is (IMO) better than the Phoon. Drop 6 expanded cargohold IIs in it, and you get 2040 m3 of cargo space. If you're using it as an alt during the mission, just put an afterburner on it (I have both AB and MWD on mine, but I salvage after turning in the mission), and it'll move much faster than the Phoon will. Both have the 8 high slots; I run 5 tractors 3 salvager, but a lot of people use a 4/4 split as well. And if you need some tank, drop 2 Large Shield Extender IIs in the mid slots.
The Phoon will have more cargo capacity, and probably a bit more tank (depending on how you fit it), but it's a whale compared to the Cane.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.02 20:03:00 -
[12]
I've used both the cane and the phoon, and stuck with the phoon thanks to it being able to contribute more than just salvaging. Admittedly I mission 90% of the time vs angels in an AC mael so there isn't a lot of moving to the salvage, but being able to go almost full gank on the mael + rely on repper drones from the phoon for the rough patches, or have the extra damage really made it worthwhile putting up with the thing being a tub. Now you're starting to be able to use MWD in deadspace again that's also becoming less of an issue anyway.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.09.02 20:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 02/09/2009 20:15:33
Originally by: Salpad
The ideal setup might be the one I'll start testing in a few days: Me in a Golem with cargo expanders and cargo rigs, and 7 small tractor beams, and my alt in a destroyer (a Catalyst, IIRC) with 8 Salvager I (he can't use T2 yet) and salvage rigs.
I do this all the time (albeit in a Paladin) and it works GREAT! Especially if two people are doing it.
Set the Marauder to all cargo expanders low, all tractors hi, cap rechargers mids + an MWD (more on the MWD below).
Friend follows you in whatever they can with the most hi slots they can muster with all salvagers.
Fly in with the Marauder and pull everything in range in. Your salvager sits next to you and starts salvaging/looting away. Once you get all in range MWD to next group (zoom out to see groups of cans more easily) and pull them in (either pull them back to your buddy or make a nice neat ball for him and he can jet over when done with the first group).
As your buddy fills up have him dump overboard and name the can or otherwise point it out to you. You tractor that in and empty it. My Paladin with T2 expanders on has over 6k of cargo. Have not seen a mission yet it cannot haul completely on its own.
The bonused tractors of the Marauder makes this very efficient. Use the Quick Fit feature to swap between salvage Marauder and Combat Marauder...makes it a breeze.
As for using the MWD here is the trick:
As you mission bookmark a can in each "room" as you go along. I just name it 1, 2, 3, etc. but whatever suits you (every so often or when done with looting just delete the BMs while flying somewhere to keep things clean). Once you are done with the mission turn the mission in (make sure no one is left in the mission area or it will not despawn). This will make all the gates disappear. Now fly to your bookmarks and all the loot is still there with no deadspace to fuss about. MWD around as you like. Makes it much faster when using a Marauder.
Barring a Marauder I'd say the best dedicated looting battlecruisers would be a Hurricane first and Harbinger second. Not sure about the others but those work well.
There is a tractor bonus setup for T3 ships too. If you have one anyway may be worth having as an alternate fitting. IIRC it gets a 40k tractor range. Never seen this setup though so not sure if it is worthwhile.
--------------------------------------------------
"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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m3talc0re X
Caldari
SandStorm.
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Posted - 2009.09.02 21:02:00 -
[14]
My salvacane:
[Hurricane, Junkyard]
<Lows>
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
<Mids>
10MN Afterburner II
LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
<Highs>
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
Salvager I
<Rigs>
Salvage Tackle I
Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Cargohold Optimization I
<Drones>
Hobgoblin II x5
-------------------------------------
The agility rig makes the ship turn better while running the 10mn Afterburner ... but it doesn't help really when running the 100mn Afterburner. It just turns like a freighter with it on, so I just use it when that one wreck is like 60km away or something. With that setup, I get like 1,840m3 cargohold. I keep to Large Standard Containers or whatever in there and that brings my total cargo space up to 2,000 m3.
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MN Norse
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Posted - 2009.09.03 00:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
...As you mission bookmark a can in each "room" as you go along. I just name it 1, 2, 3, etc. but whatever suits you (every so often or when done with looting just delete the BMs while flying somewhere to keep things clean). Once you are done with the mission turn the mission in (make sure no one is left in the mission area or it will not despawn). This will make all the gates disappear. Now fly to your bookmarks and all the loot is still there with no deadspace to fuss about....
Grid-fu FTW
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:37:00 -
[16]
I always loot and salvage, and with my current two-account setup there's no point in stopping that, but for other (newer) players, might there be a point to skipping the looting thing, and salvaging only?
I'm thinking a speed-pimped destroyer with 8 x Salvager (ideally T2 since IIRC they have slightly longer range), move to spot, salvage everything in range, then move on. Or maybe even a frigate, since it is faster and is easier to speed-pimp (AB/MWD works better) and large wreck clusters may be rare.
Am I on to something here?
--
Salpad
C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:47:00 -
[17]
Just so you know, the introduction of small rigs has really changed the picture.
Small Cargo Optimization Rig Is (which destroyers use) are only 1.5 mil each. This means a Catalyst with 3 x Expanded Cargohold II in the lows and 3 Cargo Optimization I rigs can now carry 1261m3(!) for under 20 mil.
How many level 4 missions require more than 1261m3 cargo space?
If you need more than that Hurricane is THE boat. But probably you don't, for missions.
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Kata Dakini
Amarr
Flatiron Academy
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Posted - 2009.09.03 02:55:00 -
[18]
Since you can't use MWD in missions, instead fit an oversized AB on a destroyer.
For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
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Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
Interstellar Stormfront
Outcasts Rebellion
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Posted - 2009.09.03 08:35:00 -
[19]
I used to use a Exequror, but switched down to a Catalyst equipped with 4 tractors, 4 salvagers and 3 cargo expanders. It salvages faster than the Exequror and if there is more loot than it can hold, I can always dedicate one tractor to towing a jet can while I finish the room.
Now that rigs are cheaper, I will pimp it with cargo expander rigs and maybe a salvage one.
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Alsyth
Astromechanica Maxima
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Posted - 2009.09.03 10:20:00 -
[20]
I use a Hurricane with AB+MWD.
And I found that it's faster to do a mission with two mission ships (Drake + Maelstrom in lvl4) and come back after the mission is completed in the hurricane which can use its MWD.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Salpad
Both ABs and MWDs work better on frigates, cruiser and battleships than they do on destroyers and battlecruisers. That alone may be an argument for using a Marauder as a looting/salvaging ship.
The ideal setup might be the one I'll start testing in a few days: Me in a Golem with cargo expanders and cargo rigs, and 7 small tractor beams, and my alt in a destroyer (a Catalyst, IIRC) with 8 Salvager I (he can't use T2 yet) and salvage rigs.
The Golem will carry all the actual looted modules, the destroyer only needs the salvage items, and they take up little space, so it can be pimped for flight velocity even though that reduces cargo capacity.
You'll get little use out of the extra speed from nano/od's, compared to just a basic mwd, which you can use to clean up AFTER all missions, as you've bm'd a wreck in each room and turned in the mission prior to salvaging. I'd recoomend a Sig amp for the dessy instead, for more lockable targets.
Orca doesn't have enough highslots to be efficient as the lone tractorer IMHO. If you mission in a Marauder and make a wreck ball while missioning, Orca is great for getting those last 40-70km wrecks without travelling though, as well as cargo space of course.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.09.03 11:42:00 -
[22]
Legion with 4 x 40km tractors, 3 x salvagers and 2100m3 cargo.
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Sid Reilly
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Posted - 2009.09.03 12:30:00 -
[23]
I have always used destroyers for salvaging, they can run out of boot space on the bigger mish but suits me.
currently I am using a coercer.
hi 4X salvager 4X tractor beam
mid 1X 10mn ab
lo 3X expanded cargo hold 2
rig 3X salvage tackle
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inzijan
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Posted - 2009.09.03 12:38:00 -
[24]
i use a brutix battlecruiser, 3 x tractor beams, 4 x salvagers on the highs, 3 cap rechargers, 10mwd on the mids and the lows all taken up by t2 cargo expanders! i love it
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.03 13:25:00 -
[25]
open question to all: what is the range of amount of loot you have to carry on a level 4 mission? i'm curious how it varies across factions and regions. for me i had 500-1000m3 usually when i did level 4 missions.
trying to figure out what is the minimum amount of cargohold required to salvage any level 4 mission anywhere in the galaxy.
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2009.09.03 14:46:00 -
[26]
I use a Drake.
4 x Tractors and 4 Salvagers and T2 cargo expanders.
Slapped on a couple of medium cargo rigs for 1200m of cargo space.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.09.03 16:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darthewok
How many level 4 missions require more than 1261m3 cargo space?
If you need more than that Hurricane is THE boat. But probably you don't, for missions.
More than half I would say. In fact, I'd say probably at least 3/4 of them do. There aren't too many that go over 2000. The most I've gotten was 4100 m3. Anything that has mercenaries or EoM as opponents has tons of loot. Gone Berserk, Damsel In Distress, and Right Hand of Zazzmatazz are the big ones for me. I've occasionally topped 2000 m3 in drone compounds from Infiltrated Outposts, but that one isn't usually that much.
______________________________________________________
Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
steveid
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.03 16:17:00 -
[28]
why not salvage in an arbitrator or vexor and assign the drones to your main for extra dps?
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.03 20:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Darthewok
Small Cargo Optimization Rig Is (which destroyers use) are only 1.5 mil each. This means a Catalyst with 3 x Expanded Cargohold II in the lows and 3 Cargo Optimization I rigs can now carry 1261m3(!) for under 20 mil.
How many level 4 missions require more than 1261m3 cargo space?
If you need more than that Hurricane is THE boat. But probably you don't, for missions.
The Catalyst for L4? Workable but not optimal.
BS/BC/Elite cruisers wrecks have higher salvage difficulties. You _will_ spend eternity to finish salvaging a L4 mission without any Salvage Tackles due to the higher salvager failure rates. Therefore, Cargo Optimization rigs isn't a good choice.
Probably more than half of L4's loot require at least 2000m3 if you take in everything. A Catalsyt would be useful if you do selective picking of the loot, but you're limited to 829m3 (959m3 with a Large Std Container) to accomodate for the 2-3x Salvage Tackle (necessary for a timely salvaging time).
Best starter salvage boat for L4 is still the Hurricane for its combination of agility and cargo space.
Moving downwards from there, other BCs.
Best non-marauder salvager where ISK is no object is the Legion, mainly for it's 40km tractor (at max Elec sub skill).
Moving downward, Proteus. |
Alternate Poster
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Posted - 2009.09.03 23:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Alternate Poster on 03/09/2009 23:52:01
Use a 'cane.
AB is not really required if you:
1. Bookmark a wreck in each room (while you're shooting).
2. Turn in mission.
3. Swap to salvager.
4. Jump back to your bookmarks that are no longer deadspace.
5. ...
6. Profit
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