Just roll with a logi and 3-4other people in buffer pvp ships. Cloaked falcon is a total plus.

I don't know the dps of l5s but im sure a armor cane/armor myrm or shield drake or shield cane can tank one with like...scimitar reps

Well, since you're all fairly new players you probably could grind standings with the Corporation of lv 4 Epic Arc starting agents, then run the arcs. The Corporation needs to be +5.00 or higher standing and your Faction only needs to be above -2.00 standing. Another option for access is if your Faction standing is +5.00 or higher, you can access the agents. Those missions are tougher than regular level 4 missions and they give an excellent boost to Faction standing with little to no derived standings towards other Factions. They can also be completed every 3 months.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Epic_mission_arcs

And then there's Cosmos agents but they require a higher amount of Faction standing for access and don't accept Corporation standing for access. They also give an excellent Faction standing increase, but they also give derived standings, both negative and positive, to all other Factions. Running the Epic Arc missions would definitely give a boost to accessing Cosmos. Each level of Cosmos missions is roughly about a step or 2 above the regular level missions.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/COSMOS

Since you have Fleet members, after all of you gain the corp standings needed to access the Epic Arcs, each member could access the Epic Arc agents by themselves and then all Fleet members run each members missions back to back while fleeted. That way you each gain standing but can still stay fleeted. Best when completing the mission with agent, each member does it as a solo player. Also remember that Faction standing increases are not shared.


That will definitely give you experience on working as a team, could even incorporate some EWAR tactics such as point, logistics, etc.



DMC

Thx a lot for reply and suggestions Tallian.
That would be the way we would try it.
But still:
1 Domi with some faction hardeners and TII Items: 120 Million EST Value.
2 Myrm around 100 Million each: 200 Million
2 Vexors: 20 Million
1 Noctis 90 Million
Makes 430 Million in total value.

I expect experienced gankers to invest accordingly.
1 month is enough to have such a high opinion on the intelligence and cleverness of the EVE communty ;)

So what u think of reintroducing highsec team oriented PvE for small fleets of semi-rookies?

again: i dont and we dont plan on doing L5s in lowsec exactly because of those reasons

In high sec? No, not unless it pays as well as or worse than level fours.

As for gankers, not many solo players would take on that fleet. But besides, you shouldn't be fighting in PvE ships, the game goes out of its way to give you methods to avoid combat, try joining a decent low sec corporation and learn them.

In high sec? No, not unless it pays as well as or worse than level fours.

As for gankers, not many solo players would take on that fleet. But besides, you shouldn't be fighting in PvE ships, the game goes out of its way to give you methods to avoid combat, try joining a decent low sec corporation and learn them.

Hes talking about L5s. There are no L5s in highsec.

i/we dont care if there is less ISK. we play for fun.
i didnt explicitly say it would be one person.
so i should use an AC/dual or triple rep myrm with web/point and cap boosters (wich would be totaly worth it ISK wise) for level 4 security missions?
sounds reasonable.
there are as much ways to avoid combat as to prevent that.
ability/experience/SP and ISK are the factors in that, all of wich older players exceed.

We do understand what you want. LVL5 missions in highsec. You want less risk for the same reward. That wont work because not only you but any bad player in the game would utilize that content and in the result drive the value of the reward down. It wont work one way or another.

You further make assumptions about how to operate in lowsec. Those assumptions are wrong. Given that there are players that do run those lvl5 mission in lowsec there must be something they do right that you do wrong. Little hint: it's not related to fittings or skillpoints.

If you play for fun go do incursions.

there is a reason ppl use T3 Cruiser T2 logi etc fleets for incursions.

No, you shouldn't really being PvEing in PvP ships either. Although feel free to if you want to try spider tanking, or buffer fit and use logi.

My point was that you shouldn't be worrying about fighting attackers, just avoid them.

the point was not how to do L5s. im sure we can do them. the point is the added extreme risk of gankers new players can only hardly manage on top of a L5

I could be wrong, but the reason lvl 5s are in low sec has nothing to do with people cheating to do them.

Your very complaint is the exact reason they're there. Risk vs reward. The highest paying missions are supposed to be in the most dangerous parts of space, which is why they moved them out of hi sec.

Am I remembering this wrong? Was that not CCP's explenation for the reordering of the mission levels?

incursions are in highsec and afaik net the highest possible PvE Combat rewards.

I dont care about the ******* ISK. They could pay 10000 times the money in low sec i wouldnt care i just want to do L5 in a fleet of rookies without getting exposed to griefers.

AI could definatly use a giant boost e.g. (a simple one) make frigs sprial towards you and faster (no player frig moves as slow as 400m/s)
I dont have anything against difficulty.
I just dont like the Fact that if you want to progress in the line of security missions you have to play prey for griefers after 1 Month into the game.

Imagine WOW lvl 40 instances would be under constant danger of hostile lvl 85 PvP players bursting into the group. Blizzard would instantaniously loose 70% of its playerbase.

Imagine WOW

You didn't get the memo? Mission running is intended as a means of making isk.

What you want doesn't change the fact. CCP put lvl 5's in low sec because of the risk vs reward aspect of space. The missions aren't just categorized by difficulty, it also indicates a level of pay you can expect.

I find it funny that for someone who labelled themself as "hardcore" you're complaining about ganking and chose to use the word griefers. Are you shitting me? You're hardcore but you're afraid to go into low sec and do level 5's or incursions? WTF are you doing that's so hardcore in hi sec exactly?

Please enlighten us mr. hardcore hi sec mission runner.

I think you misunderstand the OP

he wants more challenging content but don't care about the isk

I think OP should try out incursion, in this game, you can't compare older players as lv85s and younger players as lv40s

older players can fly more ships than younger players, that's it.

being able to use meta 4 already make your ship perform at 80% of its maximum