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Makkal Hanaya Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2012.06.04 04:23:00 - [31] - Quote Apolyon I wrote: he wants more challenging content but don't care about the isk It's fine that he wants this. However, I suspect the average newish player, or regular mission runner, isn't interested in PvE content that's more challenging than L4 missions but has a similar payout. 'More challenge but the same reward' would not fill any perceived fun gap, but he's suggesting that this would benefit the community at large instead of just something he and a few of his friends would enjoy. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:14:00 - [32] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: Natsett Amuinn wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: the point was not how to do L5s. im sure we can do them. the point is the added extreme risk of gankers new players can only hardly manage on top of a L5 I could be wrong, but the reason lvl 5s are in low sec has nothing to do with people cheating to do them. Your very complaint is the exact reason they're there. Risk vs reward. The highest paying missions are supposed to be in the most dangerous parts of space, which is why they moved them out of hi sec. Am I remembering this wrong? Was that not CCP's explenation for the reordering of the mission levels? incursions are in highsec and afaik net the highest possible PvE Combat rewards. I dont care about the ******* ISK. They could pay 10000 times the money in low sec i wouldnt care i just want to do L5 in a fleet of rookies without getting exposed to griefers. AI could definatly use a giant boost e.g. (a simple one) make frigs sprial towards you and faster (no player frig moves as slow as 400m/s) I dont have anything against difficulty. I just dont like the Fact that if you want to progress in the line of security missions you have to play prey for griefers after 1 Month into the game. Imagine WOW lvl 40 instances would be under constant danger of hostile lvl 85 PvP players bursting into the group. Blizzard would instantaniously loose 70% of its playerbase. You didn't get the memo? Mission running is intended as a means of making isk. What you want doesn't change the fact. CCP put lvl 5's in low sec because of the risk vs reward aspect of space. The missions aren't just categorized by difficulty, it also indicates a level of pay you can expect. I find it funny that for someone who labelled themself as "hardcore" you're complaining about ganking and chose to use the word griefers. Are you shitting me? You're hardcore but you're afraid to go into low sec and do level 5's or incursions? WTF are you doing that's so hardcore in hi sec exactly? Please enlighten us mr. hardcore hi sec mission runner. reading competency seems to be an issue in tthese forums. i did say that i am a HC Gamer, the opposite of a casual gamer. i also told you that i joined EVE only recently. i didnt say that i am a HC EVE player. i am not afraid to do L5s or incursions its just not viable for a 1 month old player. running an incursion with stated fleet would be more then stupid. and the fun/not fun ballance of L5 in low isnt worth it. so the game is just denying fun, where it totaly just give it. for no reason
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 2328	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:33:00 - [33] - Quote Natsett Amuinn wrote: You didn't get the memo? Mission running is intended as a means of making isk. What you want doesn't change the fact. CCP put lvl 5's in low sec because of the risk vs reward aspect of space. The missions aren't just categorized by difficulty, it also indicates a level of pay you can expect. I find it funny that for someone who labelled themself as "hardcore" you're complaining about ganking and chose to use the word griefers. Are you shitting me? You're hardcore but you're afraid to go into low sec and do level 5's or incursions? WTF are you doing that's so hardcore in hi sec exactly? Please enlighten us mr. hardcore hi sec mission runner. I'm gonna call this what it is, BS. First of all, the player never claimed to be "HardCore". I looked through all of his posts. Secondly, he was looking for something in High sec that was was tougher than Lv 4 missions for small fleet of new players. Thirdly, he stated a few times he didn't care about the ISK payout, he also proposed an idea. What I see in the quote is sarcastic, demeaning and insulting, Basically putting down a 2 month old player who already stated he was working to get into PvP with his buddies. Natsett Amuinn wrote: There was no reason to respond to my initial post. At the same time, He called himself a hardcore gamer. How hardcore can you be if you're not willing to go into low sec to do lvl 5's? And herein lies an issue. The OP wants to do lvl 5's in hi sec. I'm not a genius, trust me. It's very clear what he's saying. He wants to do lvl 5 mission, and he wants to be able to do them in hi sec. CCP doesn't want you doing them in Hi sec. He should have got his initial staement correct and asked for a bump in lvl 4 difficulty, not for lvl 5s in hi sec. The risk in doing them is that you have to go into low sec, that means you'll have to deal with really dangerous pirates in EVE, other players. That's the challenge. I'm gonna call more BS on this. Again the new player never said he was 'HardCore', don't know where you got that from. The only reason he was asking about level 5's cuz that's the logical progression after level 4's. He didn't know about Cosmos or Epic Arcs. Also his 'IDEA' was about incorporating a level 5 type mission in high sec where a small fleet of new players could hone their skills for transitioning into PvP. He also said he didn't care if it paid less ISK and expected lv 5 in low sec to pay much more. Idea was for NPC's to present more challenge for a fleet of 2 month old players, which is understandable. Your reactions basically chased him off and then you still harp on it even though you're in the wrong. So fracking what if his terminology was off and he had some misconceptions about the game. His little fleet had sites set on future PvP. Thanks for pulling out the welcome wagon, that 2 month old noob fleet could have been your future corp mates.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 2328	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:41:00 - [34] - Quote OK, maybe said HardCore Gamer but that all goes out the window with Eve. Definitely didn't say 'HardCore' mission runner. To the OP, those links I gave you will have other links which include more information, do that plan I outlined for you and you'll have a lot of fun, believe me. Also when it comes to these forums, best to 'tune' out the obvious ones with attitude. This sub forum is definitely the worst one, for more info with less BS, go to the specialized sub-forums. Also, welcome to Eve. DMC
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:45:00 - [35] - Quote Apolyon I wrote: I think OP should try out incursion, in this game, you can't compare older players as lv85s and younger players as lv40s older players can fly more ships than younger players, that's it. being able to use meta 4 already make your ship perform at 80% of its maximum So Gunnery Skills 5 or 4/3 or even not existent make no difference? Drone skills 5 or 4/3 or not existent make no difference? Armor skills, Shield SKills, Maneuvering Skills, Cap Skills? They make every difference in the world and yes it is comparable. More possibilities, better Items, better Hulls, better proefficiency in everything and more ISK to risk. But i will look into smaller incursions thx.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 771	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:46:00 - [36] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: Apolyon I wrote: I think OP should try out incursion, in this game, you can't compare older players as lv85s and younger players as lv40s older players can fly more ships than younger players, that's it. being able to use meta 4 already make your ship perform at 80% of its maximum So Gunnery Skills 5 or 4/3 or even not existent make no difference? Drone skills 5 or 4/3 or not existent make no difference? Armor skills, Shield SKills, Maneuvering Skills, Cap Skills? They make every difference in the world and yes it is comparable. More possibilities, better Items, better Hulls, better proefficiency in everything and more ISK to risk. But i will look into smaller incursions thx. You should already be focusing and specializing those skill before you go looking to fly more ships. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:48:00 - [37] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: OK, maybe said HardCore Gamer but that all goes out the window with Eve. Definitely didn't say 'HardCore' mission runner. To the OP, those links I gave you will have other links which include more information, do that plan I outlined for you and you'll have a lot of fun, believe me. Also when it comes to these forums, best to 'tune' out the obvious ones with attitude. This sub forum is definitely the worst one, for more info with less BS, go to the specialized sub-forums. Also, welcome to Eve. DMC Thx a lot, i appreciate it.
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:59:00 - [38] - Quote Tallian Saotome wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: Apolyon I wrote: I think OP should try out incursion, in this game, you can't compare older players as lv85s and younger players as lv40s older players can fly more ships than younger players, that's it. being able to use meta 4 already make your ship perform at 80% of its maximum So Gunnery Skills 5 or 4/3 or even not existent make no difference? Drone skills 5 or 4/3 or not existent make no difference? Armor skills, Shield SKills, Maneuvering Skills, Cap Skills? They make every difference in the world and yes it is comparable. More possibilities, better Items, better Hulls, better proefficiency in everything and more ISK to risk. But i will look into smaller incursions thx. You should already be focusing and specializing those skill before you go looking to fly more ships. I really didnt want to make this a noobguide thread, again thx for your worries but as i said i train on Armor Rifter and AC/Rep Myrm. Obvious specialisation is obvious.
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:09:00 - [39] - Quote Flamewave wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: Imagine WOW This isn't WoW. i know what u want to imply by that and i can totaly see where EVE excels WOW. but then again WOW has his strenghts. i doubt i will ever have to play "esdf" and have 30 keybinds in EVE and know every skill of every of 10 different classes with a total of 30+ possible builds and being able to read or anticipate the next move of the enemy and having less then 1 second to react to that as a team in the most effective way and plan the next 10 seconds at the same time, while keeping situational awareness, positions and managing resources and cooldowns of your team and the enemy. dont judge stuff you dont know. however i mentioned WOW, just to make an example for a general and universal game mechanic and how other succsessfull games manage to handle them.
Barbelo Valentinian The Scope Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:21:00 - [40] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: scenario: we see probes. check local check scan not much going on, we stay) single frig enters our mission area and warps away. later 6 players enter local. all of wich are 4 year +. all of wich have idk -4 security status, all of wich are in the same corporation. we check the scan. some reasonable pvp able ships in system. we leave. fun! not? Well yes, the cat and mouse game is fun actually. As a solo PvE player I normally mission in high sec, but sometimes when I'm feeling up for an adrenaline rush I do my L4s in low sec systems, using all the tools available to try and avoid being ganked. Most low sec systems near L4 mission hubs are perma-camped and infested with baddies, but not always, and these things shift around a bit over time, so if you choose your system carefully (Dotlan maps, agent finder, scouting) it's often possible to find a low sec system where you can do quite a few missions without any trouble, but you've got to really be on your toes all the time because the **** can - and sometimes unavoidably will - hit the fan very quickly. But that is part of the fun! If I, as a solo player, totally useless at PvP, can do this for L4s, I'm sure you guys, as a team actually aspiring to PvP, can do it for L5s.
Josef Djugashvilis The Scope Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:28:00 - [41] - Quote Hello Vincent, I am thinking of rolling a new character. Would you please be kind enough to post your Myrmidon fit so that I can solo level 4 missions in six weeks. The quicker he can earn good isk the sooner he can afford to lose it in pvp. Thank you. You want fries with that?
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 182	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:41:00 - [42] - Quote I think most comments here are missing the mark entirely - he is not looking for more ISK, he's looking for more interesting PvE content that allows his friends to "progress" as a group. Running lvl4 missions is already extremely easy when done solo, doing it in a group is just inefficient and superfluous. Incursions require at least 10 players with decent fitting skills. There' a large gap between Incursions and lvl4s in this regard. Ramping up the difficulty of lvl4s (people used to need 2-3 battleships to run them) would probably be just as valid a solution as moving lvl5 agents to high-sec. However, let me point out that lvl5 missions aren't different from lvl4s rgd this issue (main differences are more LP payouts, more missions against empire factions, more energy neutralizer/webbing towers) - once you have figured out a suitable setup and memorized the triggers they, too, become routine in no time. They aren't usually run in groups, they are usually dualboxed by one player. Only the fact that lvl5s take place in low-sec keeps you on your toes for a little longer. PvE in EVE is strictly a means to an end and mind-numbingly boring no matter whether you run lvl4s, lvl5s, Anomalies, Plexes or Incursions. There is no "progression" in EVE other than skill-training.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 509	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:44:00 - [43] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: Imagine WOW lvl 40 instances would be under constant danger of hostile lvl 85 PvP players bursting into the group. Blizzard would instantaniously loose 70% of its playerbase. Be careful with that WOW reference. You will get trolled to hell and back. This is not WOW. WOW is primarily a PVE themepark game. EVE is a PvP sandbox game. And it makes a world of difference. The fact that someone can bust your mission is the very reason many of us play this game. You have to be on your toes constantly and one of the first skills you have to develop is how to avoid fight when you can't win. This skill is best trained in low/null/WH space. If you want more challenge and fun but don't like to invest to much in ships take your group to lowsec and run L4s in PvP frigates/cruisers. You might end up in some good fights too.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 378	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:48:00 - [44] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: however i mentioned WOW, just to make an example for a general and universal game mechanic and how other succsessfull games manage to handle them. protip: We pay an Icelandic company money every month specifically because we don't want to play a game like "other successful games". We don't want their formula.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 772	Posted - 2012.06.04 06:55:00 - [45] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: Flamewave wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: Imagine WOW This isn't WoW. i know what u want to imply by that and i can totaly see where EVE excels WOW. but then again WOW has his strenghts. i doubt i will ever have to play "esdf" and have 30 keybinds in EVE and know every skill of every of 10 different classes with a total of 30+ possible builds and being able to read or anticipate the next move of the enemy and having less then 1 second to react to that as a team in the most effective way and plan the next 10 seconds at the same time, while keeping situational awareness, positions and managing resources and cooldowns of your team and the enemy. dont judge stuff you dont know. however i mentioned WOW, just to make an example for a general and universal game mechanic and how other succsessfull games manage to handle them. Well, dam, when I gave you that advice I didn't realize this was a thinly veiled 'I only want arena PVP' type thread. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Yolanta Geezenstack Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:30:00 - [46] - Quote Sure, you can ask to have Lvl 5 missions in Highsec. And sure, you can ask to have more and challenging PVE content. But I don't think that CCP will go that way. As I understand it, the PVE part is mainly to learn the game mechanic basics, to learn new ships, to earn some ISK or to spend some time when nothing else is happening or you just have 30 min to burn. If you want challenge in EVE, there is no way but PVP. And if you want challenge - why view the attack on your fleet by other players as ganking or griefing? Fight back, when you think you have a chance. Or fight back anyway, even without a chance (might be fun, too!). Or run from them - just yesterday I managed to run with my retriever from a ganking group, was fun - yes, I gained nothing and couldn't finish my mining, but hey, they gained nothing, too! :) From what you say about your ships you and your friend sound ready to go the PVP way to me - don't wait until you have all skills at Lvl 5.
Apolyon I AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 61	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:41:00 - [47] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: Apolyon I wrote: I think OP should try out incursion, in this game, you can't compare older players as lv85s and younger players as lv40s older players can fly more ships than younger players, that's it. being able to use meta 4 already make your ship perform at 80% of its maximum So Gunnery Skills 5 or 4/3 or even not existent make no difference? Drone skills 5 or 4/3 or not existent make no difference? Armor skills, Shield SKills, Maneuvering Skills, Cap Skills? They make every difference in the world and yes it is comparable. More possibilities, better Items, better Hulls, better proefficiency in everything and more ISK to risk. But i will look into smaller incursions thx. when you get some skills to 5, it helps things go easier or faster, it doesn't mean without max skill, you can't do it. the smaller ship you fly, the very lil improvement you'll see when you max out your skill. unless you fly capital where every level make a significant differences I'm trying to help you to understand eve, if you keep thinking WoW way, it's your loss
Bunnie Hop Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 228	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:42:00 - [48] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: OK, obviously nobody cares to answer my question. I will say this, as a 4 year veteran of this game, the only time I've mainly had to go into low sec for missions was either for courier or chasing down an expedition. Granted there was a few combat missions but with cloak, checking map stats, watching local and using safe spots, they were rather easy even if it did take a while longer to complete. Other than that, I've already listed 2 different options to engage in tougher than normal level 4 missions. That content is long term, pays good ISK and has some excellent item rewards available. One final note : Older players in these forums need to lighten up on newer players, there's no need to get sarcastic or disrespectful with them. DMC That will never happen. The forum elite want to make sure that their voice alone is heard so that their will is imposed upon others. That is why you see the same few dozen people spamming on any topic. Goon muppets are waging war upon EVE players both ingame and on the forums.
gfldex 542	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:45:00 - [49] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: reading competency seems to be an issue in tthese forums. Given your writing skills you are in no position to complain. When someone burns down your sandcastle, bring sausages.
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:46:00 - [50] - Quote Lexmana wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: Imagine WOW lvl 40 instances would be under constant danger of hostile lvl 85 PvP players bursting into the group. Blizzard would instantaniously loose 70% of its playerbase. Be careful with that WOW reference. You will get trolled to hell and back. This is not WOW. WOW is primarily a PVE themepark game. EVE is a PvP sandbox game. And it makes a world of difference. The fact that someone can bust your mission is the very reason many of us play this game. You have to be on your toes constantly and one of the first skills you have to develop is how to avoid fight when you can't win. This skill is best trained in low/null/WH space. If you want more challenge and fun but don't like to invest to much in ships take your group to lowsec and run L4s in PvP frigates/cruisers. You might end up in some good fights too. I realy didnt want it to go that way, but since u people seem to not be able to set aside ur phantasy world of being the gaming elite and accept a simple example for addressing basic universal game mechanics i will adress the wow bash issue. WOW is not primarily a PVE themepark game. The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) All of those games are purely player skill oriented and you actually cant have an advantage by spending lots of cash or time in the game (apart from practice). And yes, realizing that this is not possible in EVE i more and more feel tempted to not play it. Because some uber nurd can always just run 20 PCs at once and click 1 time and kill me. The other factor being: the older the game gets the more undefeatable certain people get. How cool and exciting!
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:49:00 - [51] - Quote gfldex wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: reading competency seems to be an issue in tthese forums. Given your writing skills you are in no position to complain. how is your german, frensh or spanish ignorant turd?
Vincent Wright Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:55:00 - [52] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: Hello Vincent, I am thinking of rolling a new character. Would you please be kind enough to post your Myrmidon fit so that I can solo level 4 missions in six weeks. The quicker he can earn good isk the sooner he can afford to lose it in pvp. Thank you. i dont know if ur trolling, seeking info for my setup to gank me, or just really ask a question. preatty standart uncreative myrm fit: artys, drone link augmentor ab, drone navi, cap rechargers 2 reps, 2, drone damage amplifiers and 2 mission related active hardeners drone dmg type mission related 2x heavies 5x medium 5 small some missions are more tank heavy then others so i fit more dps or less. sometimes 6 ACs/MWD + gundmg amplyfiers in the lows instead of the hardeners
gfldex 543	Posted - 2012.06.04 07:58:00 - [53] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: how is your german, frensh or spanish ignorant turd? My german is much better then your english. Any of the languages you named starts a sentence with a capital. The problem must be with you. You tried to insult another player (not me) and I pointed out that you are in no position to do so. Your reply only proves me right. Now go back to WoW kid, where you belong to. When someone burns down your sandcastle, bring sausages.
gfldex 543	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:02:00 - [54] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: WOW is not primarily a PVE themepark game. Yeah, right. It's a hardcore PvP game, as we all know. Thank you for disqualifying yourself. When someone burns down your sandcastle, bring sausages.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 510	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:06:00 - [55] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) Ohh my ... I tried to give you sound advice but here goes. EVE is a PvP sandbox where the strong eats the weak. It is a super capitalistic simulator. And in this environment You are weak. And believe it or not all your WOW experience and expectations is making you even weaker. This is a game of no fair fights. If you find yourself in a fair fight it is usually because somebody messed up. Now, learn the game before critizing it. If you want safe scripted PVE then go to WOW. But if you want to learn the game then grow some balls and bring your group to lowsec in cheap ships. You will be ganked but eventually you will learn ... or quit. Evolution at its finest.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 773	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:08:00 - [56] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) Which is why the WOW devs admit that they are incapable of balancing PVP, and wish they had never even allowed it on a competitive level, since it has never been fair or balance, only a game of FOTM. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Apolyon I AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 61	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:16:00 - [57] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: I realy didnt want it to go that way, but since u people seem to not be able to set aside ur phantasy world of being the gaming elite and accept a simple example for addressing basic universal game mechanics i will adress the wow bash issue. WOW is not primarily a PVE themepark game. The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) All of those games are purely player skill oriented and you actually cant have an advantage by spending lots of cash or time in the game (apart from practice). And yes, realizing that this is not possible in EVE i more and more feel tempted to not play it. Because some uber nurd can always just run 20 PCs at once and click 1 time and kill me. The other factor being: the older the game gets the more undefeatable certain people get. How cool and exciting! you take this game all wrong. what happen if a 10m sp guy with max-skilled rifter fight against 120m sp also max-skilled rifter, does it mean the 120m sp guy automatically win. is it fair that the other guy has 120m sp fight against 10m sp guy?? when you fly a ship, only skills related to that ship is relevant, the excessive amount sp you have can't have any impact on that said ship.
Tallian Saotome Fractured Core Fatal Ascension 773	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:23:00 - [58] - Quote Apolyon I wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: I realy didnt want it to go that way, but since u people seem to not be able to set aside ur phantasy world of being the gaming elite and accept a simple example for addressing basic universal game mechanics i will adress the wow bash issue. WOW is not primarily a PVE themepark game. The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) All of those games are purely player skill oriented and you actually cant have an advantage by spending lots of cash or time in the game (apart from practice). And yes, realizing that this is not possible in EVE i more and more feel tempted to not play it. Because some uber nurd can always just run 20 PCs at once and click 1 time and kill me. The other factor being: the older the game gets the more undefeatable certain people get. How cool and exciting! you take this game all wrong. what happen if a 10m sp guy with max-skilled rifter fight against 120m sp also max-skilled rifter, does it mean the 120m sp guy automatically win. is it fair that the other guy has 120m sp fight against 10m sp guy?? when you fly a ship, only skills related to that ship is relevant, the excessive amount sp you have can't have any impact on that said ship. He's a WoW player, and yet another one who wants to turn EVE into WoW because thats all he understands. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 510	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:24:00 - [59] - Quote Vincent Wright wrote: All of those games are purely player skill oriented and you actually cant have an advantage by spending lots of cash or time in the game (apart from practice). And yes, realizing that this is not possible in EVE i more and more feel tempted to not play it. Because some uber nurd can always just run 20 PCs at once and click 1 time and kill me. The other factor being: the older the game gets the more undefeatable certain people get. How cool and exciting! The problem with your kind is that you think you are entitled to a fair fight with an entity that have put years into planning, organizing and pursuing their goals without you having to do the same. This is a game where some goals take years to reach but most people set easier ones at first. You don't have to try beat Goonswarm your first quarter in the game. Maybe you can settle for establishing a presence in lowsec while being economically self-sufficient?
Velicitia Open Designs 968	Posted - 2012.06.04 08:24:00 - [60] - Quote Apolyon I wrote: Vincent Wright wrote: I realy didnt want it to go that way, but since u people seem to not be able to set aside ur phantasy world of being the gaming elite and accept a simple example for addressing basic universal game mechanics i will adress the wow bash issue. WOW is not primarily a PVE themepark game. The four Kings of fair and competitive gaming PvP are: SCII, DOTA, Quake 3 and yes believe it or not: WOW PvP (I played/still play all of them) All of those games are purely player skill oriented and you actually cant have an advantage by spending lots of cash or time in the game (apart from practice). And yes, realizing that this is not possible in EVE i more and more feel tempted to not play it. Because some uber nurd can always just run 20 PCs at once and click 1 time and kill me. The other factor being: the older the game gets the more undefeatable certain people get. How cool and exciting! you take this game all wrong. what happen if a 10m sp guy with max-skilled rifter fight against 120m sp also max-skilled rifter, does it mean the 120m sp guy automatically win. is it fair that the other guy has 120m sp fight against 10m sp guy?? when you fly a ship, only skills related to that ship is relevant, the excessive amount sp you have can't have any impact on that said ship. ^^This. Very much so...

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