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Epegi Givo
Amarr
Araja clan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 05/09/2009 15:49:43
I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging.
ninja salvaging is virtually riskless. People say that so is mission-running.
However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship.
Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil.
Who do you think is more entitled to the loot?
I don't think ninja salvaging should be illegal, just let the MR do something about the ninja.
edit: 2nd page sniper.
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My other alt is A Ferrari
Binary Translator |
AvaAlt
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:21:00 -
[32]
Solution to Ninja Salvaging;
1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie)
2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (*like 5 rounds per gun*)
3) Leave in your mission hub
3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair.
3b) Insure destroyer.
4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group.
5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit.
6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station
7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you.
option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it.
option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice.
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Srialia
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Srialia on 05/09/2009 20:10:38
 Originally by: Epegi Givo
Who do you think is more entitled to the loot?
That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage.
Learn that this game requires a modicum of effort, and no I'm not talking about skill training - that requires nothing more than patience. I mean if you want something, do what needs to be done to take it, and be ready for consequences. Don't expect papa CCP to hold your hand - if you want that treatment, go play warcraft.
I don't think most of you know what you're begging for when you ask salvaging to be a criminal action. At least the way it is now, you get to keep your mission ships.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Srialia
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Who do you think is more entitled to the loot?
That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage.
Indeed. The loot is there for anyone to take. The smart ninja knows the smart MR will not risk his multi billions mission ship by firing on a 500k frigate. Sure, you get the occasional MR who has fleeted friends warp in to pwn you (which are easy to escape), but I've never encountered a MR can insta pop a frig going 1300m/s.
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Jacqueri Calroszian
Lords Of Kaos
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:57:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Srialia
That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage.
Learn that this game requires a modi****of effort, and no I'm not talking about skill training - that requires nothing more than patience. I mean if you want something, do what needs to be done to take it, and be ready for consequences. Don't expect papa CCP to hold your hand - if you want that treatment, go play warcraft.
I don't think most of you know what you're begging for when you ask salvaging to be a criminal action. At least the way it is now, you get to keep your mission ships.
If you're just now realizing that a sort of entitlement mentality "problem" exists within EVE, well... nevermind - I'll just jump to my point:
Alliances, corporations, miners, pirates, and mission runners all have this mentality. Alliances claim regions of space. Corporations often believe they are entitled to some kind of reputation, miners believe they are entitled to the minerals they drop in jetcans. And pirates are, in fact, entitled to the ransoms and the sec-status they receive as per their actions. Here's the problem:
Alliances and corporations can settle problems of entitlement with wars and engagements. Miners can shoot can-flippers. Pirates can shoot those they hold ransom if they refuse to pay it. Mission runners? No. Their sporadic sense of entitlement cannot be settled with such graceful conflict. This is strangely alien in comparison to most other mainstream (and the not-so-mainstream) professions and elements of EVE. At least not without an invincible and absolute third-party (e.g. Concord) entering and eschewing any possibility of the outcome being favorable for the mission runner.
I'm sure the many MRs of EVE would be happy to put in at least a modicum of effort here on the forums where developers might actually listen. Frankly, it seems they're all ready for these "consequences." The ninja-salvaging community, on the other hand, might need to stock up on a few new skillbooks. Or, they can continue doing things as they always have (and with the possibility of T1 salvage being used to make T2 salvage still somewhat up-in-the-air), this may be well worth their time.
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:35:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ran Khanon
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Edited by: Sir Carnage on 05/09/2009 03:49:34
While I do enjoy my forays into high sec for a bit of mostly risk-free mission salvage, I support the movement to make salvaging flaggable.
*points at the above poster* You see that C&P? A ninja salvager who actually grew a pair.
Too bad 90% of the ninja salvagers wouldn't even touch a faction drop if it would flag them. Those kind of ninja salvagers are indeed the true 'carebears' as their ways totally screw over the balance between the risk and reward.
It is human nature though, to be opportunistic and as long as it is so easy to earn millions without risk, players will keep doing it.
Make it a crime and we will see;
- more pew pew in high sec because of the bold, like Sir Carnage, and mission runners taking their chances by agroing them
- less ninja salvaging / isk farming carebearism all around.
- a little more unsalvaged wrecks
- a balance of risk versus reward and the occasional dilemma for mission runners; "Shall I shoot him for this, or not?"
Sounds like a fine deal to me.
To be fair, I was shooting at other players before I had need of salvage. Ninjaing just seemed like a decent way to earn some isk from rigs when my loot wasn't selling.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Epegi Givo
However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship.
Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil.
3/4 years? Are you mad? If it took you 3 to 4 years to effectively run missions you have serious problems. The real evidence of what would happen if you made salvage flaggable is easy to find. Just look at what happened when they made can flipping flaggable. The same argument was made about can flippers. Now miners die a lot more than they used to.
Um... 3/4 of a year, not 3 or 4 years.
Even that is a long time though. It took me 3 or 4 months to start running L4s from the time I first started playing. Sure I was slow, but I did them without having to warp out. Someone who isn't starting with a fresh character should be able to start running L4s within a month depending on current standings and what skills they have already.
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: g0ggalor
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Epegi Givo
However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship.
Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil.
3/4 years? Are you mad? If it took you 3 to 4 years to effectively run missions you have serious problems. The real evidence of what would happen if you made salvage flaggable is easy to find. Just look at what happened when they made can flipping flaggable. The same argument was made about can flippers. Now miners die a lot more than they used to.
Um... 3/4 of a year, not 3 or 4 years.
Even that is a long time though. It took me 3 or 4 months to start running L4s from the time I first started playing. Sure I was slow, but I did them without having to warp out. Someone who isn't starting with a fresh character should be able to start running L4s within a month depending on current standings and what skills they have already.
Okay, that makes a bit more sense.
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Epegi Givo
Amarr
Araja clan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Now miners die a lot more than they used to.
and thats a bad thing?
I agree with salvage being flaggable because not only does it fix the problem of mission-runners not being able to do anything about salvagers, it also causes more explosions.
So i really don't see why people are so against this, it solves the griefs of both sides.
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My other alt is A Ferrari
Binary Translator |
Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Now miners die a lot more than they used to.
and thats a bad thing?
Not at all. I'm just pointing out a flaw in the plan. One that the miners missed as well.
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Epegi Givo
Amarr
Araja clan
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Now miners die a lot more than they used to.
and thats a bad thing?
*deleted*
I think you should edit it out before some miners read this and start requesting cans no longer give aggro.
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My other alt is A Ferrari
Binary Translator |
Brasten
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:51:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Brasten on 06/09/2009 21:51:41
Okay.... how about we solve this the easiest way. If you leave a mission or belt, without salvaging your wrecks, then you get global criminal for making whatever system you're in cluttered with debris.
Here's how it is folks... The little triangle, doesn't represent the wreck, it represents the cargo hold of that wreck, that's why a cargo container is left after the wreck is salvaged.
The wreck is not yours. The contents of the cargo hold are yours. CCP should just go back to how it used to be when the cargo would spawn in a different place from the wreck so that maybe some of you folks would understand it.
Personally, I haven't fit a salvaging rig on any ship I've owned since my 2nd week playing eve, but I do understand the logic of letting people salvage wrecks without getting flagged.
If you don't like it, just blow up your wrecks so that I don't have to worry about them showing up on my scanner.
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Nishachara
Minmatar
Special Operations Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.07 11:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
... the Dwarves, Gnomes and other Nightelves ...
What are they?
Are they something to eat?
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Manny theMiner
Smoking Hillbillys
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Posted - 2009.09.08 05:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Epegi Givo
I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging . . . just let the MR do something about the ninja.
I am a firm believer that people who don't know how to handle themselves in space deserve to get blown up. The mechanics certainly allow you to do something.... 
Hell, I'm the king of the carebears and I love when someone has the initiative to scan me out and salvage my wrecks. It's also why I keep a duelling ship close at hand for when they go blinky. Salvage belongs to the first person who locks onto a wreck and turns it on. I like to think of it as sort of an old school law of the seas type thing, where an unmanned ship / wreck is the property of the first person to find it.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Baillif
Red Mist Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.08 05:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: AvaAlt
Solution to Ninja Salvaging;
1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie)
2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (*like 5 rounds per gun*)
3) Leave in your mission hub
3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair.
3b) Insure destroyer.
4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group.
5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit.
6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station
7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you.
option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it.
option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice.
My favorite part is when he gets kill rights on you and comes back and blows up your mission ship
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Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2009.09.08 19:20:00 -
[46]
I used to enjoy ninja salvaging on my prober alt before she could fly a covops, whilst pirating on my other toons. Double tears fun fun.. BTW <3 Helicity, I'll be back in hellcats pub soon enough, just been moving to a different country and haven't bought a new computer yet. (You better read this btw Helicity)
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baillif
Originally by: AvaAlt
Solution to Ninja Salvaging;
1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie)
2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (*like 5 rounds per gun*)
3) Leave in your mission hub
3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair.
3b) Insure destroyer.
4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group.
5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit.
6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station
7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you.
option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it.
option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice.
Best part removed because its fun to do and we don't want to warn anyone
SHHHHHHHHH! Don't give away the best part.
--
Originally by: "RedSplat"
You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Baillif
Red Mist Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.09 01:09:00 -
[48]
My bad. Suicide gank those ninja salvaging bastards!
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Jacqueri Calroszian
Lords Of Kaos
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.09 05:47:00 -
[49]
Yea, I love how the ninja-salvaging community is suddenly changing their argument from "NO-NO-NO IT NEEDS TO STAY THIS WAY 'CAUSE IT'S FUN!" to "NO-NO-NO KEEP IT LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE MISSION-RUNNERS' GOOD."
Suddenly it's in ninjas' best interests to protect mission runners?  You sure you guys aren't just hiding the fact that most of your fellow ninja-salvagers will quit various ninja-salvage-focused corporations because there's no longer any viable way to conduct ninja-salvaging without already being an at least moderately skilled PVPer?
I'm all for there being more explosions, ninja-salvager or not... 
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.09.09 07:59:00 -
[50]
I still don't understand the joy some take in "carebear tears" especially when in regards to salvage. I do appreciate the humor in a mission runner emoraging right into a Concordokken, but other than that I'd rather stare at a blank local. As far as ninjas are concerned, yeah, most are pussies and would be against this, as evidenced by their fear of the pvp. I can think of atleast one ninja that shall remain nameless *coughvelocityprimecough* that actually ran from me when supposedly pvp fit (I didn't have the scram on the right hotkey for some reason ).
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LePhuzzel Cash
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Posted - 2009.09.09 08:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
Today is history
 yesterday is history.. today is present. Do you mean, "we will make history today"?
Watch Schindler's List.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.09.09 09:07:00 -
[52]
If stealing salvage becomes considered theft, mission running ships will be dying a lot more often. Your false sense of entitlement would only get you killed.
By all means, Please keep whining and crying until it becomes a reality.
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
CampxDavid
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Posted - 2009.09.09 10:36:00 -
[53]
Edited by: CampxDavid on 09/09/2009 10:38:39
ccp previously admitted that players have too much isk and level 4 missions pay out too much, so allowing ninja salvaging is a way nerf to level 4 missions. No other reason than that. Tough **** if you can't earn isk to buy new ships/modules/skillbooks.
As ccp say 'If you don't like it leave'.
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Sikander 2
Caldari
Blood Red Dawn
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Posted - 2009.09.09 20:16:00 -
[54]
Simple way to make everyone happy.
Make tractor beams work faster!
Carebears can have fun towing their new pet ninja around with them for the rest of their lives, and the salvagers still get the promise of salvage. MRs can now play games to break up the long periods of boredom.
If it is necessary (and i feel it is) to be able to salvage still...the ninjas get a faster ship and still get their salvage.
Everyone is happy
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2009.09.09 20:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sikander 2
Simple way to make everyone happy.
Make tractor beams work faster!
Carebears can have fun towing their new pet ninja around with them for the rest of their lives, and the salvagers still get the promise of salvage. MRs can now play games to break up the long periods of boredom.
If it is necessary (and i feel it is) to be able to salvage still...the ninjas get a faster ship and still get their salvage.
Everyone is happy
They already made tractors faster with the advent of Marauders. Didn't stop the ninjas, who with fleet and nimble ships could race out and salvage, or...for the lazier...wait until the helpful mission runner tractored the wrecks to them. (It involves a bit of skill if your ship isn't that fleet of foot, but most ninja frigates can burn out at 1 km/s...start salvaging when the wreck gets within 5000 meters...and be whipped around and back within 5000 meters before the second cycle of the salvagers goes off. Or, if you're running a destroyer.. The majority of the time with seven or eight salvagers chugging along a battleship wreck will take only a single cycle. And it doesn't matter if the wreck has gotten out of range of the salvager since it will give you the stuff if it works.
So no. Faster tractors won't help. It makes it more challenging for the ninja, that's all.
--
Originally by: "RedSplat"
You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.09 20:48:00 -
[56]
tears are tasty.
tasty tears.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Suitonia
Gallente
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.09.09 23:01:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Baillif
My bad. Suicide gank those ninja salvaging bastards!
Works great until they kill your l4 mission ship because of kill rights...
---
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
viper09
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Posted - 2009.09.10 09:56:00 -
[58]
ninja salvagers should die repeatedly if theyre in a frig set up a noob with destroyers lvl 3 and energy pulse weapons 3 fit it with full rack of smartbombs and scram and u will take upto a dessie down for cruisers u need 3 of them
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Sky Princess
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:33:00 -
[59]
Ninja salvagers are my heros. Nothing annoyes me more than the sight of wrecks everywhere. Space is supposed to be clean! Belt should be cleaned out and wrecks are supposed to be salvaged. Mission runners should at least have one salvager on board. If they don't, tough luck! As for attacking the salvager? Go ahead, make my day 
----------------------------------------------- signature down here -----------------------------------------------
Where ever I go, there I am. |
Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:35:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Rico Minali on 10/09/2009 10:36:04
Originally by: Epegi Givo
Edited by: Epegi Givo on 05/09/2009 15:49:43
I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging.
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I endorse this idea/product. Bad man salvages your mission (and i dont mean those lofit failsauce ninja's who cant fight for sh**) gets aggro, so you shoot him, then I, ermm, I mean the bad man goes to get a better ship, comes back and kicks all sorts of colours from your carebear hide...
Looks like a win, win to me, I get pvp, and faction loot, you get what you asked for.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
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