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The Salvaging-As-Theft movement must be purged from eve.

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Terminal Insanity Minmatar Gith Industries	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 04/09/2009 19:13:34 Today is history. Today will be remembered. Years from now the young will ask with wonder about this day. Today is history and you are part of it. Six hundred years ago when elsewhere they were footing the blame for the Exile of the High Elves, and Sundering of their own World, A Noobie, the Night Elf - so called - told the Dwarves, Gnomes and other Nightelves they could come to New Eden. They came. They trundled their politics through the wormhole. They settled. They took hold. They prospered in business, science, missioning, the art of docking. With nothing they came and with nothing they flourished. For six centuries there has been a mark on our space. By this evening those six centuries will be a rumor. They never happened. Today is history. We must band together, eve brethren, and purge our space of these foul warlocks. Let us all fit combat probes, and let us strike fear into the heart of the mission carebears! We will take from our enemies, and destroy it before their very eyes! We will allow the enemy to shoot us, only to see us return in bigger, stronger numbers. We will eliminate all Mission runners who seek to ban ninja salvaging, and free our space of this plague. This call transcends your race, corporate mission statement or alliance politics. This goes out to all Pod Pilots, Goons, Reds, and BOB Survivors alike. Let us take back our space, and make it clean again, from this scourge, or it will eat away at our very way of life. NEW EDEN WILL BE FREE ONCE MORE!
Grann Thefauto Spook Division BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:14:00 - [2] You have my Sword.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Grann Thefauto You have my Sword. And my PEPSI --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Ran Khanon	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:42:00 - [4] Non can flipping ninja salvagers are carebears themselves. Since it isn't stealing, there isn't any risk involved. I have no problem with the freedom to clear out anyone's can or wreck, though, that choice should always stay. But the fact that ninja salvaging doesn't trigger a cooldown makes them just as much carebears as the mission runners themselves ... and friggin' lazy at that :P
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Grann Thefauto You have my Sword. And my PEPSI and my dead toad in said PESPSI!
Lightningshade Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Ran Khanon Non can flipping ninja salvagers are carebears themselves. Since it isn't stealing, there isn't any risk involved. I have no problem with the freedom to clear out anyone's can or wreck, though, that choice should always stay. But the fact that ninja salvaging doesn't trigger a cooldown makes them just as much carebears as the mission runners themselves ... and friggin' lazy at that :P It would be easier and more profitable just to run missions really. I dont know why they do it.......but it got you riled..
Cheesestick Charlie	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Grann Thefauto You have my Sword. And my PEPSI You have my cov ops ship. Originally by: Lightningshade Originally by: Ran Khanon Non can flipping ninja salvagers are carebears themselves. Since it isn't stealing, there isn't any risk involved. I have no problem with the freedom to clear out anyone's can or wreck, though, that choice should always stay. But the fact that ninja salvaging doesn't trigger a cooldown makes them just as much carebears as the mission runners themselves ... and friggin' lazy at that :P It would be easier and more profitable just to run missions really. I dont know why they do it.......but it got you riled.. The tears, son, the tears.
Skanufacturing	Posted - 2009.09.04 19:58:00 - [8] Honestly, I think there's less work bringing in a gankship on a mish-fitted MR than runnin the mish itself. And, more often than not (not always) the MR is someone new, and building up money to pvp with... I like it, Ninjas _ARE_ the real carebears. Thats my new saying. nabs a bucket -Skan
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.09.04 20:01:00 - [9] white = mine yellow = not mine Little triangle is white ninja Salvagers are uber carebears I love their profession, but make it so that there is some risk to it... make it flaggable and let the mission runner decide is he wants to shoot them or not. Just like can flipping miners ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.09.04 20:27:00 - [10] Edited by: g0ggalor on 04/09/2009 20:28:01 Originally by: Hoo Is white = mine yellow = not mine Little triangle is white ninja Salvagers are uber carebears I love their profession, but make it so that there is some risk to it... make it flaggable and let the mission runner decide is he wants to shoot them or not. Just like can flipping miners It is actually more or less like mining, not can flipping. Its just the MR turns rats into minable wrecks and so feels entitled to mine them himself when really they are.... ah **** it, I'm tired of explaining it. Count me in.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2009.09.04 20:36:00 - [11] Cool story bro. Oh, and I have 17 million, can I help
Gregor Vernof Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.09.04 22:20:00 - [12] OMG, Quick, we should all discuss whether or not to beat this dead horse subject.... *** ... never let a good story die, click the... er, well damn the threads disappeared... the linkys don't work.... Ah well nevermind....
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.09.04 23:51:00 - [13] Oh, please, lets leave them to whine; every time they post, a Ninja gets her wings . . .er another corp member.
Lyris Nairn Caldari Empyrean Holdings	Posted - 2009.09.05 00:50:00 - [14] I love people who hate salvagers. :) -- Quite possibly the nicest person who'd ever want to kill you.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.09.05 01:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Hoo Is white = mine yellow = not mine Little triangle is white MEEP wrong. "When a ship is destroyed, whether it is a player ship or an NPC ship, it leaves a wreck. The modules and items from the cargohold that are not destroyed in the ship's explosion, can be looted. In addition to this, raw materials can be extracted from the wreck by using salvaging. The materials salvaged can be sold on the market or used to create rigs. Please note that anyone can salvage usable materials from wrecks, regardless of who destroyed the ship which caused the wreck to be created. Concord does not regard it as a criminal offense for anyone with the expertise required to extract usable materials from space debris to put their skills to use. " My noobish Khanid Pirate blog: http://helicityboson.blogspot.com/
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.05 01:15:00 - [16] Oh please do. I support this development. Anything that gets ninja-salvagers to actually loot wrecks is something I support 100%. Way to grow a pair!
Sliaria	Posted - 2009.09.05 01:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Hoo Is white = mine yellow = not mine --BZZZT!-- Triangle = my loot, my salvage. Diamond = my loot. White = Yellow = Irrelevant. Shoot at me in your mission fit while I buzz around the area picking up all your trash. Maybe you'll see some red on my shield bar, but not likely. There are plenty of ways to counter us. It's not your fault that your little carebear brain is too small to comprehend them. Just like it's too small to realize that what we're doing isn't about money.
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.05 03:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Sliaria Triangle = my loot, my salvage. Diamond = my loot. White = Yellow = Irrelevant. So what you're saying is that triangles equal "loot," although diamonds equal "loot" and/or "salvage." Therefore, salvage equals loot, and diamonds equal triangles? And white is the same as yellow... which are two different colors. So it's probably safe to say they have no concept of shape or color, which are the only two things that define sight. Originally by: Sliaria It's not your fault that your little carebear brain is too small to comprehend them. Just like it's too small to realize that what we're doing isn't about money. Ok, just to be nice to the small-brained carebears I'm going to throw together a short comparison that they can use to help understand your post better. First, the term 'carebear' is often a derogatory term used to describe a pathetic hi-sec player, in case anyone was unaware of this. Also, it is well-known that a ninja-salvager is a carebear, although not necessarily the other way around. So, looking at your post one can assume that, keeping in mind that ninja-salvagers are also carebears: A) ninja-salvagers are pathetic players B) ninja-salvagers have small brains C) ninja-salvagers in fact need this comparison to understand their own forum posts With handicaps like these, it's no wonder they hold onto the only thing they're good at with such fervor.
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.09.05 03:39:00 - [19] Jacqueri Calroszian sounds mad R U Mad? someone get your lootz? chin up big guy its ok Your stuff iz mine through actions
Sir Carnage	Posted - 2009.09.05 03:44:00 - [20] While I do enjoy my forays into high sec for a bit of mostly risk-free mission salvage, I support the movement to make salvaging flaggable. This just means that I loot and salvage both the npc wrecks and the mission runner's wreck. It means I have to pay more attention when salvaging for my rigs, but mission runner loot should make it worth it.
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.05 03:44:00 - [21] No and no, thanks for the concern though.
The Mag Gallente Wondering Derelicts	Posted - 2009.09.05 05:15:00 - [22] You got to love the politics of eve. The op took alot of time and effort on his post and honestly I enjoyed reading it. Then someone post Ninja's are carebears, and then the counter posting Ninja warning carebears that they might get what they wish, which I find laughable because if the Ninja truely wanted to be flagged he would loot the can as well. Its amazing how pod pilots think that making mention of a particular part of the game mechanics over and over might somehow get a change to those same mechanics and how the opposing thought jumps in just as eagerly. Personally I'm tired of training up for a particular ship or particular aspect of the game to have it nerfed to hell and back. Just my 2 isk
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.09.05 08:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Jacqueri Calroszian A) ninja-salvagers are pathetic players B) ninja-salvagers have small brains C) ninja-salvagers in fact need this comparison to understand their own forum posts lol, butthurt anyone?
Cyrrus Ex Gallente Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.09.05 09:24:00 - [24] what? go back to WoW or translate that into eve language.
Ran Khanon	Posted - 2009.09.05 09:24:00 - [25] Originally by: Sir Carnage Edited by: Sir Carnage on 05/09/2009 03:49:34 While I do enjoy my forays into high sec for a bit of mostly risk-free mission salvage, I support the movement to make salvaging flaggable. points at the above poster You see that C&P? A ninja salvager who actually grew a pair. Too bad 90% of the ninja salvagers wouldn't even touch a faction drop if it would flag them. Those kind of ninja salvagers are indeed the true 'carebears' as their ways totally screw over the balance between the risk and reward. It is human nature though, to be opportunistic and as long as it is so easy to earn millions without risk, players will keep doing it. Make it a crime and we will see; - more pew pew in high sec because of the bold, like Sir Carnage, and mission runners taking their chances by agroing them - less ninja salvaging / isk farming carebearism all around. - a little more unsalvaged wrecks - a balance of risk versus reward and the occasional dilemma for mission runners; "Shall I shoot him for this, or not?" Sounds like a fine deal to me.
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.05 09:59:00 - [26] Originally by: g0ggalor Originally by: Jacqueri Calroszian A) ninja-salvagers are pathetic players B) ninja-salvagers have small brains C) ninja-salvagers in fact need this comparison to understand their own forum posts lol, butthurt anyone? Lol, I'm really flattered that you guys are concerned for my feelings and all, but the only thing I'm doing is simplifying all these long posts for you lovely gentlemen. Silly! I mean, I'd love to go into further detail, but then I'd just get a lot of tl;drs I'm sure. I mean, hell, I'll probably get some after this. "Don't worry guys, I'm here to help translate this complicated stuff for you." is all I'm trying to say. Sound good? But yea, seems to me that even a fellow ninja-salvager agrees loot should carry flags. I mean what with "loot = salvage" and all.
skyk Domination. THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.09.05 10:40:00 - [27] Ninja salvaging is a profession requiring high levels, of skill, investment and bravery. The slightest addition of any risk would render this profession unworkable, and ruin the enjoyment of millions of players, who would then leave, taking their accounts with them. For god's sake CCP, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN! ninja salvagers MUST be protected. EVE depends on it.
Ran Khanon	Posted - 2009.09.05 10:50:00 - [28] Originally by: skyk Ninja salvaging is a profession requiring high levels, of skill, investment and bravery. The slightest addition of any risk would render this profession unworkable, and ruin the enjoyment of millions of players, who would then leave, taking their accounts with them. For god's sake CCP, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN! ninja salvagers MUST be protected. EVE depends on it. [----------------^%&^(^$($($($($%&($] 185%&^%$ -malfunction- sighs Thank you for wrecking my sarcasm 'o meter. Now I have to buy a new one.
Wongdong Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.05 12:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Hoo Is white = mine yellow = not mine Little triangle is white so when you blow up a player you don't take the mods in the wreck?b/c those mods are still the player's mods and belong to him and his corp.(i.e. the wreck is yellow to you) Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.05 15:20:00 - [30] Quote: Today is history yesterday is history.. today is present. Do you mean, "we will make history today"?
Epegi Givo Amarr Araja clan	Posted - 2009.09.05 15:49:00 - [31] Edited by: Epegi Givo on 05/09/2009 15:49:43 I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging. ninja salvaging is virtually riskless. People say that so is mission-running. However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship. Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil. Who do you think is more entitled to the loot? I don't think ninja salvaging should be illegal, just let the MR do something about the ninja. edit: 2nd page sniper. ------------------------------------- My other alt is A Ferrari Binary Translator
AvaAlt	Posted - 2009.09.05 16:21:00 - [32] Solution to Ninja Salvaging; 1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie) 2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (like 5 rounds per gun) 3) Leave in your mission hub 3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair. 3b) Insure destroyer. 4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group. 5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit. 6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station 7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you. option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it. option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice.
Srialia Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.09.05 20:10:00 - [33] Edited by: Srialia on 05/09/2009 20:10:38 Originally by: Epegi Givo Who do you think is more entitled to the loot? That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage. Learn that this game requires a modicum of effort, and no I'm not talking about skill training - that requires nothing more than patience. I mean if you want something, do what needs to be done to take it, and be ready for consequences. Don't expect papa CCP to hold your hand - if you want that treatment, go play warcraft. I don't think most of you know what you're begging for when you ask salvaging to be a criminal action. At least the way it is now, you get to keep your mission ships.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.09.05 20:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Srialia Originally by: Epegi Givo Who do you think is more entitled to the loot? That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage. Indeed. The loot is there for anyone to take. The smart ninja knows the smart MR will not risk his multi billions mission ship by firing on a 500k frigate. Sure, you get the occasional MR who has fleeted friends warp in to pwn you (which are easy to escape), but I've never encountered a MR can insta pop a frig going 1300m/s.
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.05 20:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Srialia That is the problem most MRs have, right there: an entitlement mentality. I, on the other hand, take the salvage and loot I can get to before anybody else can. If I get blown up for it, I was prepared for that possibility. More often than not though, I get rewarded again by the helpless mission runner whining in local. That right there is worth more than any salvage. Learn that this game requires a modi****of effort, and no I'm not talking about skill training - that requires nothing more than patience. I mean if you want something, do what needs to be done to take it, and be ready for consequences. Don't expect papa CCP to hold your hand - if you want that treatment, go play warcraft. I don't think most of you know what you're begging for when you ask salvaging to be a criminal action. At least the way it is now, you get to keep your mission ships. If you're just now realizing that a sort of entitlement mentality "problem" exists within EVE, well... nevermind - I'll just jump to my point: Alliances, corporations, miners, pirates, and mission runners all have this mentality. Alliances claim regions of space. Corporations often believe they are entitled to some kind of reputation, miners believe they are entitled to the minerals they drop in jetcans. And pirates are, in fact, entitled to the ransoms and the sec-status they receive as per their actions. Here's the problem: Alliances and corporations can settle problems of entitlement with wars and engagements. Miners can shoot can-flippers. Pirates can shoot those they hold ransom if they refuse to pay it. Mission runners? No. Their sporadic sense of entitlement cannot be settled with such graceful conflict. This is strangely alien in comparison to most other mainstream (and the not-so-mainstream) professions and elements of EVE. At least not without an invincible and absolute third-party (e.g. Concord) entering and eschewing any possibility of the outcome being favorable for the mission runner. I'm sure the many MRs of EVE would be happy to put in at least a modicum of effort here on the forums where developers might actually listen. Frankly, it seems they're all ready for these "consequences." The ninja-salvaging community, on the other hand, might need to stock up on a few new skillbooks. Or, they can continue doing things as they always have (and with the possibility of T1 salvage being used to make T2 salvage still somewhat up-in-the-air), this may be well worth their time.
Sir Carnage	Posted - 2009.09.05 21:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Ran Khanon Originally by: Sir Carnage Edited by: Sir Carnage on 05/09/2009 03:49:34 While I do enjoy my forays into high sec for a bit of mostly risk-free mission salvage, I support the movement to make salvaging flaggable. points at the above poster You see that C&P? A ninja salvager who actually grew a pair. Too bad 90% of the ninja salvagers wouldn't even touch a faction drop if it would flag them. Those kind of ninja salvagers are indeed the true 'carebears' as their ways totally screw over the balance between the risk and reward. It is human nature though, to be opportunistic and as long as it is so easy to earn millions without risk, players will keep doing it. Make it a crime and we will see; - more pew pew in high sec because of the bold, like Sir Carnage, and mission runners taking their chances by agroing them - less ninja salvaging / isk farming carebearism all around. - a little more unsalvaged wrecks - a balance of risk versus reward and the occasional dilemma for mission runners; "Shall I shoot him for this, or not?" Sounds like a fine deal to me. To be fair, I was shooting at other players before I had need of salvage. Ninjaing just seemed like a decent way to earn some isk from rigs when my loot wasn't selling.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.09.05 22:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Epegi Givo However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship. Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil. 3/4 years? Are you mad? If it took you 3 to 4 years to effectively run missions you have serious problems. The real evidence of what would happen if you made salvage flaggable is easy to find. Just look at what happened when they made can flipping flaggable. The same argument was made about can flippers. Now miners die a lot more than they used to. Um... 3/4 of a year, not 3 or 4 years. Even that is a long time though. It took me 3 or 4 months to start running L4s from the time I first started playing. Sure I was slow, but I did them without having to warp out. Someone who isn't starting with a fresh character should be able to start running L4s within a month depending on current standings and what skills they have already.
Sir Carnage	Posted - 2009.09.05 22:20:00 - [38] Originally by: g0ggalor Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Epegi Givo However, mission-runnners have to train up for 3/4 of a year to get decent skills, grind smaller agents for a long time, and spend tons of isk on a good mission ship. Ninja salvagers train for half a week, don't grind any standings, and spend 300k instead of 200 mil. 3/4 years? Are you mad? If it took you 3 to 4 years to effectively run missions you have serious problems. The real evidence of what would happen if you made salvage flaggable is easy to find. Just look at what happened when they made can flipping flaggable. The same argument was made about can flippers. Now miners die a lot more than they used to. Um... 3/4 of a year, not 3 or 4 years. Even that is a long time though. It took me 3 or 4 months to start running L4s from the time I first started playing. Sure I was slow, but I did them without having to warp out. Someone who isn't starting with a fresh character should be able to start running L4s within a month depending on current standings and what skills they have already. Okay, that makes a bit more sense.
Epegi Givo Amarr Araja clan	Posted - 2009.09.05 22:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Sir Carnage Now miners die a lot more than they used to. and thats a bad thing? I agree with salvage being flaggable because not only does it fix the problem of mission-runners not being able to do anything about salvagers, it also causes more explosions. So i really don't see why people are so against this, it solves the griefs of both sides. ------------------------------------- My other alt is A Ferrari Binary Translator
Sir Carnage	Posted - 2009.09.05 22:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Epegi Givo Originally by: Sir Carnage Now miners die a lot more than they used to. and thats a bad thing? Not at all. I'm just pointing out a flaw in the plan. One that the miners missed as well.
Epegi Givo Amarr Araja clan	Posted - 2009.09.06 00:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Epegi Givo Originally by: Sir Carnage Now miners die a lot more than they used to. and thats a bad thing? deleted I think you should edit it out before some miners read this and start requesting cans no longer give aggro. ------------------------------------- My other alt is A Ferrari Binary Translator
Brasten	Posted - 2009.09.06 21:51:00 - [42] Edited by: Brasten on 06/09/2009 21:51:41 Okay.... how about we solve this the easiest way. If you leave a mission or belt, without salvaging your wrecks, then you get global criminal for making whatever system you're in cluttered with debris. Here's how it is folks... The little triangle, doesn't represent the wreck, it represents the cargo hold of that wreck, that's why a cargo container is left after the wreck is salvaged. The wreck is not yours. The contents of the cargo hold are yours. CCP should just go back to how it used to be when the cargo would spawn in a different place from the wreck so that maybe some of you folks would understand it. Personally, I haven't fit a salvaging rig on any ship I've owned since my 2nd week playing eve, but I do understand the logic of letting people salvage wrecks without getting flagged. If you don't like it, just blow up your wrecks so that I don't have to worry about them showing up on my scanner.
Nishachara Minmatar Special Operations Corp	Posted - 2009.09.07 11:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Terminal Insanity ... the Dwarves, Gnomes and other Nightelves ... What are they? Are they something to eat?
Manny theMiner Smoking Hillbillys	Posted - 2009.09.08 05:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Epegi Givo I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging . . . just let the MR do something about the ninja. I am a firm believer that people who don't know how to handle themselves in space deserve to get blown up. The mechanics certainly allow you to do something.... Hell, I'm the king of the carebears and I love when someone has the initiative to scan me out and salvage my wrecks. It's also why I keep a duelling ship close at hand for when they go blinky. Salvage belongs to the first person who locks onto a wreck and turns it on. I like to think of it as sort of an old school law of the seas type thing, where an unmanned ship / wreck is the property of the first person to find it. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
Baillif Red Mist Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.08 05:52:00 - [45] Originally by: AvaAlt Solution to Ninja Salvaging; 1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie) 2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (like 5 rounds per gun) 3) Leave in your mission hub 3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair. 3b) Insure destroyer. 4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group. 5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit. 6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station 7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you. option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it. option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice. My favorite part is when he gets kill rights on you and comes back and blows up your mission ship
Ospie Core Impulse	Posted - 2009.09.08 19:20:00 - [46] I used to enjoy ninja salvaging on my prober alt before she could fly a covops, whilst pirating on my other toons. Double tears fun fun.. BTW <3 Helicity, I'll be back in hellcats pub soon enough, just been moving to a different country and haven't bought a new computer yet. (You better read this btw Helicity)
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.09.08 20:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Baillif Originally by: AvaAlt Solution to Ninja Salvaging; 1) Buy Thrasher (or some other dessie) 2) Fit with 7 cheapo arty, a tracking computer, ONE salvager, point, AB, and cheap gyros (or whatever works with your cheap weapon of choice) faction ammo (like 5 rounds per gun) 3) Leave in your mission hub 3a) THIS IS IMPORTANT! Grow a pair. 3b) Insure destroyer. 4) Go get thrasher when ninja enters mission. This works only if all rats are dead, or there are others in your group. 5) AB towards a wreck, and the ninja. Activate the salvager you have fit. 6) Exploder ninja, friends loot all "your" salvage back, wait out 15min GCC in station 7) Find reasons to whine why 1-6 wont work for you. option B. use 2 or 3 brain cells and find system not filled with ninjas. Or become one yourself. Or whatever. But keep asking for salvage "theft" to be flaggable, and you just might get it. option C. Play a game more your speed, i hear Pong is nice. Best part removed because its fun to do and we don't want to warn anyone SHHHHHHHHH! Don't give away the best part. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Baillif Red Mist Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.09 01:09:00 - [48] My bad. Suicide gank those ninja salvaging bastards!
Jacqueri Calroszian Lords Of Kaos Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.09.09 05:47:00 - [49] Yea, I love how the ninja-salvaging community is suddenly changing their argument from "NO-NO-NO IT NEEDS TO STAY THIS WAY 'CAUSE IT'S FUN!" to "NO-NO-NO KEEP IT LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE MISSION-RUNNERS' GOOD." Suddenly it's in ninjas' best interests to protect mission runners? You sure you guys aren't just hiding the fact that most of your fellow ninja-salvagers will quit various ninja-salvage-focused corporations because there's no longer any viable way to conduct ninja-salvaging without already being an at least moderately skilled PVPer? I'm all for there being more explosions, ninja-salvager or not...
Sir Carnage	Posted - 2009.09.09 07:59:00 - [50] I still don't understand the joy some take in "carebear tears" especially when in regards to salvage. I do appreciate the humor in a mission runner emoraging right into a Concordokken, but other than that I'd rather stare at a blank local. As far as ninjas are concerned, yeah, most are pussies and would be against this, as evidenced by their fear of the pvp. I can think of atleast one ninja that shall remain nameless coughvelocityprimecough that actually ran from me when supposedly pvp fit (I didn't have the scram on the right hotkey for some reason).
LePhuzzel Cash	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Barbara Nichole Quote: Today is history yesterday is history.. today is present. Do you mean, "we will make history today"? Watch Schindler's List.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.09.09 09:07:00 - [52] If stealing salvage becomes considered theft, mission running ships will be dying a lot more often. Your false sense of entitlement would only get you killed. By all means, Please keep whining and crying until it becomes a reality. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
CampxDavid	Posted - 2009.09.09 10:36:00 - [53] Edited by: CampxDavid on 09/09/2009 10:38:39 ccp previously admitted that players have too much isk and level 4 missions pay out too much, so allowing ninja salvaging is a way nerf to level 4 missions. No other reason than that. Tough **** if you can't earn isk to buy new ships/modules/skillbooks. As ccp say 'If you don't like it leave'.
Sikander 2 Caldari Blood Red Dawn	Posted - 2009.09.09 20:16:00 - [54] Simple way to make everyone happy. Make tractor beams work faster! Carebears can have fun towing their new pet ninja around with them for the rest of their lives, and the salvagers still get the promise of salvage. MRs can now play games to break up the long periods of boredom. If it is necessary (and i feel it is) to be able to salvage still...the ninjas get a faster ship and still get their salvage. Everyone is happy
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.09.09 20:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Sikander 2 Simple way to make everyone happy. Make tractor beams work faster! Carebears can have fun towing their new pet ninja around with them for the rest of their lives, and the salvagers still get the promise of salvage. MRs can now play games to break up the long periods of boredom. If it is necessary (and i feel it is) to be able to salvage still...the ninjas get a faster ship and still get their salvage. Everyone is happy They already made tractors faster with the advent of Marauders. Didn't stop the ninjas, who with fleet and nimble ships could race out and salvage, or...for the lazier...wait until the helpful mission runner tractored the wrecks to them. (It involves a bit of skill if your ship isn't that fleet of foot, but most ninja frigates can burn out at 1 km/s...start salvaging when the wreck gets within 5000 meters...and be whipped around and back within 5000 meters before the second cycle of the salvagers goes off. Or, if you're running a destroyer.. The majority of the time with seven or eight salvagers chugging along a battleship wreck will take only a single cycle. And it doesn't matter if the wreck has gotten out of range of the salvager since it will give you the stuff if it works. So no. Faster tractors won't help. It makes it more challenging for the ninja, that's all. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.09.09 20:48:00 - [56] tears are tasty. tasty tears. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Suitonia Gallente HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.09.09 23:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Baillif My bad. Suicide gank those ninja salvaging bastards! Works great until they kill your l4 mission ship because of kill rights... --- Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
viper09	Posted - 2009.09.10 09:56:00 - [58] ninja salvagers should die repeatedly if theyre in a frig set up a noob with destroyers lvl 3 and energy pulse weapons 3 fit it with full rack of smartbombs and scram and u will take upto a dessie down for cruisers u need 3 of them
Sky Princess Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.09.10 10:33:00 - [59] Ninja salvagers are my heros. Nothing annoyes me more than the sight of wrecks everywhere. Space is supposed to be clean! Belt should be cleaned out and wrecks are supposed to be salvaged. Mission runners should at least have one salvager on board. If they don't, tough luck! As for attacking the salvager? Go ahead, make my day ----------------------------------------------- signature down here ----------------------------------------------- Where ever I go, there I am.
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din SCUM.	Posted - 2009.09.10 10:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Rico Minali on 10/09/2009 10:36:04 Originally by: Epegi Givo Edited by: Epegi Givo on 05/09/2009 15:49:43 I am a firm believer in getting aggro for salvaging. ----------------------------------------------------- I endorse this idea/product. Bad man salvages your mission (and i dont mean those lofit failsauce ninja's who cant fight for sh**) gets aggro, so you shoot him, then I, ermm, I mean the bad man goes to get a better ship, comes back and kicks all sorts of colours from your carebear hide... Looks like a win, win to me, I get pvp, and faction loot, you get what you asked for. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Kelley daWrench Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.10 10:42:00 - [61] I don't see what the problem is. It doesn't take all that much organization to mission/salvage or mine efficiently. You're going to be vulnerable solo, this is a commonly held rule in EVE. When I first started out one of my friends let me come salvage his 4's for him. In return for splitting the isk he got to focus on the killing and I boosted him remotely. Not to mention we rolled through missions more than twice as fast. Instead of complaining about the system, stop holding to false assumptions and get smarter.
Xandr0ss	Posted - 2009.09.10 11:19:00 - [62] Originally by: Kelley daWrench Instead of complaining about the system, stop holding to false assumptions and get friends. fixed.
Kimet Ethonise	Posted - 2009.09.10 15:04:00 - [63] Originally by: Xandr0ss Originally by: Kelley daWrench Instead of complaining about the system, stop holding to false assumptions and get alts. fixed. Fixed yer fix for yer. More seriously, I think that people who get irked by Ninja-salvaging fall into two broad categories: 1) People who have been ninja'd and are crying about how 'their' stuff got 'stolen', prompting much rhetoric and repetition of the same circular arguments about game mechanics. 2) People who get annoyed by the Ninja's making the same dull circular statements about how "It's not theft cause CCP say so" and "removing this will reduce PVP in EVE". Type 1 want no one to touch any of their stuff ever. They wouldn't shoot a flagged ninja if he took their loot, or they haven't learned yet and are upset by having been CONCORDed upon shooting said Ninja when he salvaged their wreck. (in this instance, I mean the wreck that was created by them shooting an NPC, as opposed to the act of salvaging the wreck CONCORD created when...you get the idea). Type 2 mostly want Ninja salvagers to come out and admit that what they do is almost (if not more) risk-free than mission running. Ninja whine posts are replete with comments revolving around how "no ninja who knows what he's doing would get killed by a rat spawn / MR" or "my ship could withstand over 9000 volleys from a CNR." In one epic one I saw at least two ninjas stating that they only flag themselves when they've scanned the MR ship and know they have a PVP boat ready that can kill it. And in the same exchange of differing opinions, they claimed MRs were lame carebears for looking up what to tank on EVE-survival.... Let me end this by saying; I don't think ninja salvaging should be done away with, and I'm not even particularly in favour of aggression flagging for doing so. However, I do think Ninja salvagers whine almost as much as MRs in these threads, with just as little justification. I find the inability of people to learn to ignore ninjas annoying but I also find the "3y3 m l33t3r thn j00!!!111" attitude espoused by many ninjas in response just as annoying, if not more so, due its baselessness. tl:dr. Ninjas are carebears, just like mission runners. Neither side is better than the other. N.B Quotations in this post are hyperbole, not actual statements by actual characters.
Velocity Prime Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.09.10 15:07:00 - [64] Wow, this discussion still rages on? We haven't come to grips with the fact that salvaging is not considered theft? I love it. Mission runners should pray that it never is considered theft. The illusion that you are safe in highsec would be shattered. It would be a blood bath. I for one would welcome that blood bath. We're Recruiting!
Kate Yeats Caldari Stand and Deliver	Posted - 2009.09.10 16:57:00 - [65] Originally by: Kimet Ethonise Let me end this by saying; I don't think ninja salvaging should be done away with, and I'm not even particularly in favour of aggression flagging for doing so. However, I do think Ninja salvagers whine almost as much as MRs in these threads, with just as little justification. So make two changes: Salvaging is flaggable, Ninjas are happy, MRs are happy, everyone wins... Taking from the sleepers, upgrade the Mission NPC AI to be able to switch targets and pour some DPS on the 'squishy' salvager instead of just on the MR. If the two decide to engage, they'll both have to deal with NPC DPS, not just the MR and it'll force Ninjas to deal with NPCs and the MR instead of just tanking/neuting the MR. MRs are happy as Ninja-ing is more risky, more of a challenge, Ninjas are happy because of same and the increased action that comes from being more flashy-flashy. Easy, Job done. Honestly, I don't know why CCP don't just have me running their dev dept...
Idocrase	Posted - 2009.09.10 16:59:00 - [66] Meh. If you cant beat them, join them. Whichever side of the fence you are on. Myself, I go both ways. I have a new alt dedicated to ninja salvaging, its made itself a good few million that way, while also saving me the effort of switching ships in my main to salvage. I ninja salvage my own missions, its awesome. Sadly I have not yet shot at myself, because then i would have to go get a PVP ship to fight myself with, and then i would have to ransom myself for my ship, or my modules... Ninja Salvaging is WAY too easy. There is ZERO risk to the ninja, unless they are a moron, but to be fair, the same can be said for mission runners... The answer is already in development though. Soon, NPC rats will have sleeper AI, and then ninjas will either have to adapt, or die, just the same as the mission runners. Ohh, and regardless of which you are, both are carebears.
Kimet Ethonise	Posted - 2009.09.10 19:01:00 - [67] Originally by: Kate Yeats So make two changes: Salvaging is flaggable, Ninjas are happy, MRs are happy, everyone wins... Taking from the sleepers, upgrade the Mission NPC AI to be able to switch targets and pour some DPS on the 'squishy' salvager instead of just on the MR. If the two decide to engage, they'll both have to deal with NPC DPS, not just the MR and it'll force Ninjas to deal with NPCs and the MR instead of just tanking/neuting the MR. MRs are happy as Ninja-ing is more risky, more of a challenge, Ninjas are happy because of same and the increased action that comes from being more flashy-flashy. But but but! You can't change the mechanic, CCP say its working as intended!
Yet Maria	Posted - 2009.09.10 21:27:00 - [68] As someone else posted, just lock the salvage and destroy it. Or, I would like to see, maybe you could claim it. Lock on-to it and if you destroyed it, maybe have a system that you claim it, so it is listed as your own. Maybe then put a timer on it. If you don't salvage it in X min it's then switched to public domain. Just a thought.
Angel Violette Demonic Empire Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2009.09.10 22:25:00 - [69] someone is trying to ban ninja salvaging ?

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