EVE Search - Stop Price Fixing.

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Xtreem	Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 - [31] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price..
Xtreem	Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 - [32] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price..
Xtreem Gallente Fire Mandrill Curse Alliance	Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 - [33] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price..
Excavation Svcs	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 - [34] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun!
Excavation Svcs	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 - [35] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun!
Excavation Svcs	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 - [36] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun!
Caeli Maren	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 - [37] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had.
Caeli Maren	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had.
Caeli Maren Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 - [39] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had.
Senior Pablo	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 - [40] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo
Senior Pablo	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 - [41] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo
Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 - [42] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 - [43] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 - [44] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR	Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 - [45] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn
Cell Satimo	Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 - [46] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. \| Join eve-webring.com to promote your site.
Cell Satimo	Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 - [47] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. \| Join eve-webring.com to promote your site.
Cell Satimo Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 - [48] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. Eve Web-Ring Your guide to all sites In-Game and Out. Works in IGB
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 - [49] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 - [50] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR	Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 - [51] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn
FunGuy	Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 - [52] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's
FunGuy	Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 - [53] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's
FunGuy Caldari	Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 - [54] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's
Omega Man	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 - [55] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up.
Omega Man	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 - [56] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 - [57] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up.
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 - [58] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn
Kaladryn	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 - [59] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR	Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 - [60] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn

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