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 Velios    |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[61] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
 Velios |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[62] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
 Velios M. Corp Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[63] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
 Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[64] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
 Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[65] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
 Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[66] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
Erilias Ilthis |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[67] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
Erilias Ilthis |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[68] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
 Erilias Ilthis Gallente Chronodynamics |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[69] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[70] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
 J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[71] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
 J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[72] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
 Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[73] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[74] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
 Shock Caldari |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[75] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
 Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[76] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
 Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[77] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
 Joshua Calvert Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[78] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. |
Vigilant |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[79]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships  (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
 Vigilant |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[80]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
 Vigilant Gallente Frontier Technologies |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[81]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
 Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[82]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
 Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[83]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
Shock Caldari |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[84]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
 Toran Mehtar |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[85] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills  |
Toran Mehtar |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[86] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills |
 Toran Mehtar Amarr Imperial Shipment |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[87] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills |
2short |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[88] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
2short |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[89] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
 2short Caldari Space Dust Corp |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[90] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
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