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 Senior Pablo    |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:13:00 -
[1] I'm asking anyone who has proof of price fixing to post it to this thread so that price fixed items can be boycotted. Tech II price fixing is out of hand and we the customers need to stand up to help themselves. Tech II price fixers post inside these forums, discussing the best prices where their products should be fixed and the buyers do nothing to stop it. We need stop this. Price fixing is bad for the consumer, bad for the market, and bad for private traders. I purchased a large amount of 200mm Tech II Autocannons more than a month ago and have been continually leaned on and harassed by price fixers, those with the BPOs who call themselves the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" who have repeatedly harassed me for attempting to engage in honest trade. Price fixers are not good players. Just like in real life, they are scammers and over-zealous profiteers bent on ruining fair trade for the sake of enlarging their already prodigious pockets. People who price fix in real life are jailed. Price fixers are no better than ore thieves in that they are not profiting by their own merits and labors, but rather by taking advantage of good players. If you have had a similar experience, or have seen postings by price fixers, or even notice that every price of a certain product is exactly the same at every order in every region, post it to this thread. Boycotting Tech II items seems like a hard sacrifice, but it won't take long before these pirates stab each other in the back by lowering their prices. This can work. I'll tell you from my own experience that the price of Tech II 200mm Autocannons has dropped from 3mil per unit to 1.75mil per unit since I started fighting the price fixers. They are supposed to have the price fixed at 2mil right now but, because I refuse to cooperate despite their threats and demands, they're forced to undercut me and save the consumer money in the Genesis region. We owe it to ourselves to stop the practice of price fixing. It is unfair, and it hinders or spoils the game for many honest EVE players. If you have information on price-fixed items, please post it here so we can force these people to stop stealing our hard-earned ISK. Thanks, Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
 Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:13:00 -
[2] I'm asking anyone who has proof of price fixing to post it to this thread so that price fixed items can be boycotted. Tech II price fixing is out of hand and we the customers need to stand up to help themselves. Tech II price fixers post inside these forums, discussing the best prices where their products should be fixed and the buyers do nothing to stop it. We need stop this. Price fixing is bad for the consumer, bad for the market, and bad for private traders. I purchased a large amount of 200mm Tech II Autocannons more than a month ago and have been continually leaned on and harassed by price fixers, those with the BPOs who call themselves the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" who have repeatedly harassed me for attempting to engage in honest trade. Price fixers are not good players. Just like in real life, they are scammers and over-zealous profiteers bent on ruining fair trade for the sake of enlarging their already prodigious pockets. People who price fix in real life are jailed. Price fixers are no better than ore thieves in that they are not profiting by their own merits and labors, but rather by taking advantage of good players. If you have had a similar experience, or have seen postings by price fixers, or even notice that every price of a certain product is exactly the same at every order in every region, post it to this thread. Boycotting Tech II items seems like a hard sacrifice, but it won't take long before these pirates stab each other in the back by lowering their prices. This can work. I'll tell you from my own experience that the price of Tech II 200mm Autocannons has dropped from 3mil per unit to 1.75mil per unit since I started fighting the price fixers. They are supposed to have the price fixed at 2mil right now but, because I refuse to cooperate despite their threats and demands, they're forced to undercut me and save the consumer money in the Genesis region. We owe it to ourselves to stop the practice of price fixing. It is unfair, and it hinders or spoils the game for many honest EVE players. If you have information on price-fixed items, please post it here so we can force these people to stop stealing our hard-earned ISK. Thanks, Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
 Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:13:00 -
[3] I'm asking anyone who has proof of price fixing to post it to this thread so that price fixed items can be boycotted. Tech II price fixing is out of hand and we the customers need to stand up to help themselves. Tech II price fixers post inside these forums, discussing the best prices where their products should be fixed and the buyers do nothing to stop it. We need stop this. Price fixing is bad for the consumer, bad for the market, and bad for private traders. I purchased a large amount of 200mm Tech II Autocannons more than a month ago and have been continually leaned on and harassed by price fixers, those with the BPOs who call themselves the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" who have repeatedly harassed me for attempting to engage in honest trade. Price fixers are not good players. Just like in real life, they are scammers and over-zealous profiteers bent on ruining fair trade for the sake of enlarging their already prodigious pockets. People who price fix in real life are jailed. Price fixers are no better than ore thieves in that they are not profiting by their own merits and labors, but rather by taking advantage of good players. If you have had a similar experience, or have seen postings by price fixers, or even notice that every price of a certain product is exactly the same at every order in every region, post it to this thread. Boycotting Tech II items seems like a hard sacrifice, but it won't take long before these pirates stab each other in the back by lowering their prices. This can work. I'll tell you from my own experience that the price of Tech II 200mm Autocannons has dropped from 3mil per unit to 1.75mil per unit since I started fighting the price fixers. They are supposed to have the price fixed at 2mil right now but, because I refuse to cooperate despite their threats and demands, they're forced to undercut me and save the consumer money in the Genesis region. We owe it to ourselves to stop the practice of price fixing. It is unfair, and it hinders or spoils the game for many honest EVE players. If you have information on price-fixed items, please post it here so we can force these people to stop stealing our hard-earned ISK. Thanks, Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
 the plague |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:21:00 -
[4] can i be the 1st to own up to price fixing  and i can tell you boycott all u want u , it wont change a thing  |
 the plague |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:21:00 -
[5] can i be the 1st to own up to price fixing and i can tell you boycott all u want u , it wont change a thing |
 the plague |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:21:00 -
[6] can i be the 1st to own up to price fixing and i can tell you boycott all u want u , it wont change a thing |
FZappa |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:30:00 -
[7] Edited by: FZappa on 19/10/2004 20:32:48 nothing is fair in eve . price fixing will work up to a point when more bpos of the module are released and the producers are stuck with their supply . im suprised the 200mm 2 cartel moved to undercut you , since you have limit amounts of these guns . p.s , someone been selling 200mm 2 bpcs at 200k per run ;) so much for that cartel lol . ------------------------- |
FZappa |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:30:00 -
[8] Edited by: FZappa on 19/10/2004 20:32:48 nothing is fair in eve . price fixing will work up to a point when more bpos of the module are released and the producers are stuck with their supply . im suprised the 200mm 2 cartel moved to undercut you , since you have limit amounts of these guns . p.s , someone been selling 200mm 2 bpcs at 200k per run ;) so much for that cartel lol . ------------------------- |
 FZappa Caldari Heretics Corp |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:30:00 -
[9] Edited by: FZappa on 19/10/2004 20:32:48 nothing is fair in eve . price fixing will work up to a point when more bpos of the module are released and the producers are stuck with their supply . im suprised the 200mm 2 cartel moved to undercut you , since you have limit amounts of these guns . p.s , someone been selling 200mm 2 bpcs at 200k per run ;) so much for that cartel lol . ------------------------- T2 producer : Curse recon ships , PDU2 , small neutron blaster2 , Med pulse laser2 , Armor em/thermal/kinetic hardeners2, thermic armor plating 2 , havoc fury cruise 2 . |
Dirus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:36:00 -
[10] Price fixing is perfectly normal business ploy. There are laws in RL that prohibit this to a certain extent, but as with oil, there is always price fixing. Its everyone's god given right to charge what ever they want for their goods. If there is a demand, they will keep high prices, if players stop buying them, then prices go down. 200mm autocannon IIs are not a very sought after item that will destroy the market. There are other options you can use. Go buy some rare 200mm tech1s for instance (I've got a few scouts and protos tucked away from agent whor... running). Everyone deserves to die. You go first. |
 Dirus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:36:00 -
[11] Price fixing is perfectly normal business ploy. There are laws in RL that prohibit this to a certain extent, but as with oil, there is always price fixing. Its everyone's god given right to charge what ever they want for their goods. If there is a demand, they will keep high prices, if players stop buying them, then prices go down. 200mm autocannon IIs are not a very sought after item that will destroy the market. There are other options you can use. Go buy some rare 200mm tech1s for instance (I've got a few scouts and protos tucked away from agent whor... running). Everyone deserves to die. You go first. |
 Dirus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 20:36:00 -
[12] Price fixing is perfectly normal business ploy. There are laws in RL that prohibit this to a certain extent, but as with oil, there is always price fixing. Its everyone's god given right to charge what ever they want for their goods. If there is a demand, they will keep high prices, if players stop buying them, then prices go down. 200mm autocannon IIs are not a very sought after item that will destroy the market. There are other options you can use. Go buy some rare 200mm tech1s for instance (I've got a few scouts and protos tucked away from agent whor... running). |
 Dejesus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:33:00 -
[13] Edited by: Dejesus on 19/10/2004 21:37:51 Suppliers, contrary to their over-blown egos, don't control the market -- consumers do. And the consumers have the "God-given right" not to buy price-fixed goods. And it's conspicuous how the person who says "Nothing is fair!" is typically the person benefitting from the unfairness. Consumers are entitled to prices dictated by a free market. If you don't believe in the free market, why are you traders? If I wanted to steal from people, I'd just be a pirate. But then, of course, that would take balls... DJ |
Dejesus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:33:00 -
[14] Edited by: Dejesus on 19/10/2004 21:37:51 Suppliers, contrary to their over-blown egos, don't control the market -- consumers do. And the consumers have the "God-given right" not to buy price-fixed goods. And it's conspicuous how the person who says "Nothing is fair!" is typically the person benefitting from the unfairness. Consumers are entitled to prices dictated by a free market. If you don't believe in the free market, why are you traders? If I wanted to steal from people, I'd just be a pirate. But then, of course, that would take balls... DJ |
 Dejesus |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:33:00 -
[15] Edited by: Dejesus on 19/10/2004 21:37:51 Suppliers, contrary to their over-blown egos, don't control the market -- consumers do. And the consumers have the "God-given right" not to buy price-fixed goods. And it's conspicuous how the person who says "Nothing is fair!" is typically the person benefitting from the unfairness. Consumers are entitled to prices dictated by a free market. If you don't believe in the free market, why are you traders? If I wanted to steal from people, I'd just be a pirate. But then, of course, that would take balls... DJ |
 fairimear |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:35:00 -
[16] A. this is rong place for this post. B they wont stop so stop greifing and have a cookie.  (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination. |
 fairimear |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:35:00 -
[17] A. this is rong place for this post. B they wont stop so stop greifing and have a cookie. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination. |
 fairimear Gallente S.A.S Cruel Intentions |
Posted - 2004.10.19 21:35:00 -
[18] A. this is rong place for this post. B they wont stop so stop greifing and have a cookie. Makeing your npc hunters SS. |
Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:12:00 -
[19] Edited by: Excavation Svcs on 19/10/2004 22:15:13 Price fixing is cool. One of the diverse ways to trade in this game. |
 Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:12:00 -
[20] Edited by: Excavation Svcs on 19/10/2004 22:15:13 Price fixing is cool. One of the diverse ways to trade in this game. |
 Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:12:00 -
[21] Edited by: Excavation Svcs on 19/10/2004 22:15:13 Price fixing is cool. One of the diverse ways to trade in this game. |
 Admiral IceBlock |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:26:00 -
[22] get the others with the same bpo as you, make a little trade agreement on a fixed price. make the buyers pay a lot for it and dont leak the mineral requirments... one way to fix it ^^ "We brake for nobody" |
 Admiral IceBlock |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:26:00 -
[23] get the others with the same bpo as you, make a little trade agreement on a fixed price. make the buyers pay a lot for it and dont leak the mineral requirments... one way to fix it ^^ "We brake for nobody" |
 Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance |
Posted - 2004.10.19 22:26:00 -
[24] get the others with the same bpo as you, make a little trade agreement on a fixed price. make the buyers pay a lot for it and dont leak the mineral requirments... one way to fix it ^^ Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.19 23:33:00 -
[25] Sounds like you have been put in the perfect position to wtfpwn these price fixers, and you have done so, just don't give in to the price fixing demands. Most of these people doing the price fixing don't understand simple supply and demand, and are actually hurting themselves by setting their prices high. When a new BPO comes out, there is often little demand for the item, setting the price high just reduces this demand further. A new item producer should be more concerned with creating demand than making profit initially. Get your product out there, get people using it, create more demand, educate your market in it's value. This will create higher demand, AND increase the rate at which demand increases. In the end, higher volume will more than make up for your smaller profit margin. I'm making over 600 RPs/day, and I look forward to getting a BPO and wtfpwning some of these lame price fixers! Kaladryn |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.19 23:33:00 -
[26] Sounds like you have been put in the perfect position to wtfpwn these price fixers, and you have done so, just don't give in to the price fixing demands. Most of these people doing the price fixing don't understand simple supply and demand, and are actually hurting themselves by setting their prices high. When a new BPO comes out, there is often little demand for the item, setting the price high just reduces this demand further. A new item producer should be more concerned with creating demand than making profit initially. Get your product out there, get people using it, create more demand, educate your market in it's value. This will create higher demand, AND increase the rate at which demand increases. In the end, higher volume will more than make up for your smaller profit margin. I'm making over 600 RPs/day, and I look forward to getting a BPO and wtfpwning some of these lame price fixers! Kaladryn |
 Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR |
Posted - 2004.10.19 23:33:00 -
[27] Sounds like you have been put in the perfect position to wtfpwn these price fixers, and you have done so, just don't give in to the price fixing demands. Most of these people doing the price fixing don't understand simple supply and demand, and are actually hurting themselves by setting their prices high. When a new BPO comes out, there is often little demand for the item, setting the price high just reduces this demand further. A new item producer should be more concerned with creating demand than making profit initially. Get your product out there, get people using it, create more demand, educate your market in it's value. This will create higher demand, AND increase the rate at which demand increases. In the end, higher volume will more than make up for your smaller profit margin. I'm making over 600 RPs/day, and I look forward to getting a BPO and wtfpwning some of these lame price fixers! Kaladryn |
Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:02:00 -
[28] This is how price fixers work. This EVEmail was sent to me by Meriatalantra (who is in a corp with a CA NAP by the way): 2004.09.29 22:14:00 Hello I represent the Autocannon 200mm !! consortium. So far we have identified 3 vendors of this item. We have al agreed to sell them at 3 mil each as demand is high and there is no point in us undercutting each other. Please will you join our consortium and price your autocannon 200s at 3 mil each? I see you are trying to undercut at the moment. It would be unfrotunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you inb return. Please join us instead so we can all profit. --- "It would be unfortunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you in return." That is how price fixers treated a month-old newcomer to EVE who put his last ISK into an otherwise good investment to get ahead. These are not good, honest traders. These are bad people. They are not the kind of people who make for a good gaming community. I am still trying to sell the autocannons I purchased. Rather than buy me out -- like I did to the guy with the price lower than mine -- they harassed me, undercut me, followed me to every system where I tried to sell, and ruined my investment. Price fixers hurt everyone, they hurt the game, and we need to stand up to them. Saying price fixing is "One more diverse way to trade in EVE" is absurd -- why not escrow scamming then? Why not ore theiving? Price fixers are bad players and we need to shut this practice down. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
 Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:02:00 -
[29] This is how price fixers work. This EVEmail was sent to me by Meriatalantra (who is in a corp with a CA NAP by the way): 2004.09.29 22:14:00 Hello I represent the Autocannon 200mm !! consortium. So far we have identified 3 vendors of this item. We have al agreed to sell them at 3 mil each as demand is high and there is no point in us undercutting each other. Please will you join our consortium and price your autocannon 200s at 3 mil each? I see you are trying to undercut at the moment. It would be unfrotunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you inb return. Please join us instead so we can all profit. --- "It would be unfortunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you in return." That is how price fixers treated a month-old newcomer to EVE who put his last ISK into an otherwise good investment to get ahead. These are not good, honest traders. These are bad people. They are not the kind of people who make for a good gaming community. I am still trying to sell the autocannons I purchased. Rather than buy me out -- like I did to the guy with the price lower than mine -- they harassed me, undercut me, followed me to every system where I tried to sell, and ruined my investment. Price fixers hurt everyone, they hurt the game, and we need to stand up to them. Saying price fixing is "One more diverse way to trade in EVE" is absurd -- why not escrow scamming then? Why not ore theiving? Price fixers are bad players and we need to shut this practice down. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:02:00 -
[30] This is how price fixers work. This EVEmail was sent to me by Meriatalantra (who is in a corp with a CA NAP by the way): 2004.09.29 22:14:00 Hello I represent the Autocannon 200mm !! consortium. So far we have identified 3 vendors of this item. We have al agreed to sell them at 3 mil each as demand is high and there is no point in us undercutting each other. Please will you join our consortium and price your autocannon 200s at 3 mil each? I see you are trying to undercut at the moment. It would be unfrotunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you inb return. Please join us instead so we can all profit. --- "It would be unfortunate if all the other 200mm autocannon manufacturers had to gang up and undercut you in return." That is how price fixers treated a month-old newcomer to EVE who put his last ISK into an otherwise good investment to get ahead. These are not good, honest traders. These are bad people. They are not the kind of people who make for a good gaming community. I am still trying to sell the autocannons I purchased. Rather than buy me out -- like I did to the guy with the price lower than mine -- they harassed me, undercut me, followed me to every system where I tried to sell, and ruined my investment. Price fixers hurt everyone, they hurt the game, and we need to stand up to them. Saying price fixing is "One more diverse way to trade in EVE" is absurd -- why not escrow scamming then? Why not ore theiving? Price fixers are bad players and we need to shut this practice down. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXI |
Xtreem |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 -
[31] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price.. |
Xtreem |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 -
[32] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price.. |
 Xtreem Gallente Fire Mandrill Curse Alliance |
Posted - 2004.10.20 00:17:00 -
[33] i think price fixing is great,,why? becuase then other smaller corps can get there hands on just a few bpcs, they stand to make alot of isk by undercuttng the set prices, making them more money still above the build price.. |
Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 -
[34] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun! |
Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 -
[35] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun! |
Excavation Svcs |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:21:00 -
[36] Escrow scamming and ore theft are cool,too, I do it both alot. But in your place I would have rejected them,too, just for the sake of competition and fun! |
Caeli Maren |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 -
[37] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had. |
Caeli Maren |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 -
[38] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had. |
 Caeli Maren Gallente Aliastra |
Posted - 2004.10.20 01:44:00 -
[39] Edited by: Caeli Maren on 20/10/2004 01:47:10 Price fixing will almost never work. As you've demonstrated, only one or two producers not following the cartel can break it. The only exception to this is when the demand is incredibly high, or the production time is also high. In the case of the turrets, I believe you can produce 20 a day, for pretty cheap. The demand is probably not high enough yet to cover all of your production, and a significant portion of the consortium's. Their cartel will fail, until the price is low enough that the demand can cover yours and theirs both. Because of the skill requirements, I wouldn't expect the demand will be high enough for many weeks at least. With the cost of tech 2 bpos though, you can't blame them for trying to make their money back quickly. I'm sure they realize that once there are 20 bpos, there will be very little profit to be had. |
 Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 -
[40] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo |
Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 -
[41] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo |
Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:12:00 -
[42] Edited by: Senior Pablo on 20/10/2004 02:16:27 Caeli, I agree. And that touches on the typical argument in-favor of price fixing which is "It's hard to get Tech II BPOs, hard to manufacture them, and it's the best stuff in the game, so the producers deserve a lot for it." What I can't understand about this argument is, if it's the best stuff in the game, they should make a lot of money whether they fix it or not. I don't know what these people are afraid of. Some of them are probably shooting themselves in the foot, because natural supply/demand could drive the price up beyond where they've fixed it. Then they say "Well, how do we price it?" And I say: price it however you want, taking into account your overhead and expected profits. If you sell them too fast, raise the price. If you sell them too slow, lower the price. This is how the free market works and it is better for everyone involved. And if they were honest business people and saw someone undercutting them, they'd just buy that person out to secure their position, rather than attempting threats, undercutting and intimidation as price fixers do -- which does nothing but make everyone lose money. Pablo |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 -
[43] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 -
[44] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn |
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR |
Posted - 2004.10.20 02:26:00 -
[45] Own them, do everything possible to own them, sell the friggin things at zero profit if you have to, just OWN them. Own them so bad they sell their BPOs or just plain give up manufacturing them. By this time your will have created maximum demand for your item, then you can increase the price. Owning the people who sent you that evemail will be far better than the profit of going along with them, and in the end, you can make more through higher demand and volume. Kaladryn |
Cell Satimo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 -
[46] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. | Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
Cell Satimo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 -
[47] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. | Join eve-webring.com to promote your site. |
 Cell Satimo Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.10.20 08:43:00 -
[48] The way to avoid price fixing is just to not buy the produce, and place a buy order for what you think it's worth. Many players look at the current buy orders before deciding to pay a price. If there are 100 buy order ranging from 1 - 1.6m and low volume sales at 3m, then the price will fall. Simply because the manufacturers will have too much invested in stock at a certain point. On the other hand, if the price fixing consortium wants to make a real fix on the price, they should buy up all your low price units and resell them at the higher fixed price. Knowing that someone has a limited supply means they still make a profit from the sale, and remove the under cutter. Eve Web-Ring Your guide to all sites In-Game and Out. Works in IGB |
 Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 -
[49] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn |
 Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 -
[50] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn |
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR |
Posted - 2004.10.20 09:33:00 -
[51] [note: this is a rather interesting thread, perhaps it should be moved to the market discussion section] Good point Cell, they will just buy your out if you sell too low, but if you manage the price war just right, you can under cut them at a price that will attract buyers, but that is too narrow a margin of profit for them to buy you out. Finding that sweet spot and staying there as it changes is rather difficult. And remember even the little guy can use this same tactic on the big producer who is trying to undercut back. Kaladryn |
FunGuy |
Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 -
[52] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's |
FunGuy |
Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 -
[53] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's |
 FunGuy Caldari |
Posted - 2004.10.20 11:10:00 -
[54] There is always going to be some level of price fixing in eve, the market actually demands that you do on certain products. I'm going to use co-processors as an example. These are a product which doesn't have price fixing on them. As a result when ever anyone has stock they dump them on the market at a lower price than their competators just so they can sell them out quickly. The price of your goods should be at a level where you can always maintain an even level of stock. If you can make 100 items in a week, you don't want to sell them in a week at 500k, you should want to sell them over a week at 1mil. Price fixing on the long run doesn't work, theres been a few I've taken part in over the months but due to not wanting to deal with people who have no idea about the economy of eve I try to stay away from it now. I don't believe that the "Tech II 200mm Autocannon Consortium" will last very long at those prices, The demand for T2 weapons isn't as great as it could be at the momemt, demand will increase, but still not enough to maximise production, which will lead to people making BPC's (which has already been mentioned) and BPC holders will never stand with any price fixing thing. FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's |
Omega Man |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 -
[55] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up. |
Omega Man |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 -
[56] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up. |
 Omega Man The Geddy Foundation |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:25:00 -
[57] it is a common misconception to imagine the "consumer is king". People are told that to keep them nice and quiet when they go shopping. Fact is, they buy the stuff that is offered at the price it is offered. Here is a simple example: Sit in the dentist chair, he tells you, a filling is needed. What you gonna do, head to medical school for the next 6 years to prove him wrong. Okay so a filling is needed. He tells you how much it is going to cost. What you gonna do, hop out the chair and go get another couple of quotes? Nope your gonna pay. Consumer is King, yeah sure, lap it up. |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 -
[58] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn |
Kaladryn |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 -
[59] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn |
Kaladryn KaYSeRiSPoR |
Posted - 2004.10.20 12:39:00 -
[60] I shop around for everything, most people do, it helps dull the bordom. It is only when the market isn't educated that people make mistakes. Take the Dentist example, I am very picky about my dentists. If I need a new dentist, I go call a local dental lab (the techs that make teeth for many differnt dentists) and ask them to recommend a good dentist who charges resonable rates. The dental tech deals directly with the dentist, sees his work, and is an excellent position to make a recommendation. And they are usually very pleased to do so... Kaladryn |
Velios |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[61] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
Velios |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[62] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
 Velios M. Corp Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2004.10.20 14:32:00 -
[63] I can't condone price fixing but I will say that if a corp gets a new T2 BPO, they are fully justified in making as much cash from the print as possible while they can. This a competitive game, and the wealth of big corporations makes a huge difference in their ability to compete on the battlefield. The big corporations have worked hard to get where they are today, and put them in a poition to purchase these new T2 BPO's at admittedly crazy prices. So i can see why we are seeing T2 cruisers selling for 100+ million isk. Its all about making the most of your investment while you can, and unfortunately it is always the little guy that suffers. We were all "little guys" at one time though. I remember forking out 8m isk for each miner II laser and there was a LOT of resentment towards the corps that held T2 mining laser BPO's for the prices. The Techell Corp came along and made out they were doing EVE a favour by lowering their price to 5m isk. The guys that are small today, will one day become major players in the markets if you put in the time and effort - people should stop resenting those with financial power right now - for one day, even the n00b in his reaper will be one of the big guys. It's a natural progression. |
Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[64] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
Senior Pablo |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[65] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
Senior Pablo Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2004.10.20 15:34:00 -
[66] And I completely agree that traders should be allowed to maximize their profits. But they should do so in the context of the free market. I trade stuff all the time and make a good profit at it. But I do so at my own risk. I don't mine a bunch of scordite and then send EVEmails to everyone else in the region to say "Let's fix Pyerite at 7isk." This is how it should work, and would work in real life: A person manufactures a product, looks at their overhead, profit goals and the expected demand for the product. From that, they set the original price. If they run out faster than they can produce it, they raise the price. In reality, some of these price fixers have occasionally screwed themselves -- there are some items out there that would be much more profitable if they wouldn't have engaged in their misguided schemes. Price fixing hurts everyone: producers, traders and consumers. Senior Pablo Captain, El Jalapeno XXXII |
Erilias Ilthis |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[67] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
Erilias Ilthis |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[68] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
 Erilias Ilthis Gallente Chronodynamics |
Posted - 2004.10.21 15:39:00 -
[69] Edited by: Erilias Ilthis on 21/10/2004 15:42:48 On top of that, just as these well... item syndicates do a pricefix,and are free to do so; the small guys/honest traders/ free market believers are also free to do whatever they want. This also includes making anti-deals on the monopolisation of the market or start treaths like this that look like a start of a consumer (or customer) organisation to me :-) Cheers Erilias |
J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[70] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[71] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
 J'Maybe Keens |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:18:00 -
[72] Edited by: J'Maybe Keens on 21/10/2004 16:29:33 I would appreciate some concrete examples of where cartels are fixing a price. I am particularly keen for evidence of this: Senior Pablo writes:
Coz that would be something a bit special. While all this argument is interesting, so far it all sounds like a conspiracy theory. And without proof it is actually happening what's the argument about, eventually theory is best when it has practical application. And some of you might like to read this You might well be surprised at the decisions some buyers make, even if some of you are prepared to traipse half way around the galaxy to save 2isk. ******** AUTHOR of the COMPLETE mineral and ore Price guide, updated weekly, see Eve Guardian for details |
Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[73] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[74] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
 Shock Caldari |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:29:00 -
[75] I think price fixing is a good think to a certain extent, but it's a system that regulates itself so whining about it is just for the lame people that want it all no matter the damage it is doing to the game. After all, the manufacturers want to keep the price up to a too high level the people will just stop buying and looking for alternatives. But as long as they they are selling everything they make this won't happen. Also a part of the tech II prices are that high because of the cost of components, but expect these to drop in Shiva, and the TII stuff with it. Also many of the BPOs are not given by agents but bought from lucky people. And the investors have the right to make their investment back. Good luck at doing that if you paid 100M for a BPO and are only making 100k profit a unit. 1000 Units sounds few, but then 100M is a very low estimate, and how many say, 75MM rails you you think the market needs? You don't have to buy this stuff. Nobody is twisting your arm or something. But if you think you definately need to have this stuff, then you should not complain about the fact that having an edge over others always comes with a pricetag. It's the whole ******* Miner II discussion all over again, probably even the same losers who think they are entitled to have everything and do everything possible in this game. --- soonÖ |
Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[76] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[77] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
 Joshua Calvert Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:30:00 -
[78] Monopolies suck but I bet anyone whose complaining here would do the exact same if they got themselves a shiny new tech 2 BPO. I know I'd milk it for every isk. |
Vigilant |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[79]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships  (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
Vigilant |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[80]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
 Vigilant Gallente Frontier Technologies |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:36:00 -
[81]
You are correct Josh...most people would...because of greed of others... Can we say T2 Ships (yeah I know comps. are pricy)....But, when people...finally do post the Requirements to Build "x" item....most of time...its over 200 percent.. PROFIT... that is bit to greedy IMHO.... I can understand the first couple of weeks....but after that...let the prices fall some....real world..if you make a 25 percent profit on every item...Your doing really good... |
Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[82]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
Shock |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[83]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
Shock Caldari |
Posted - 2004.10.21 16:38:00 -
[84]
Why not? There is notbody stopping you. And you are completely in your right to try. After all there are things like minimum wages. I think it's only fair if the big mining corps start a coalition and make mineralagreements. But I'll tell you why: Because you're one of those people that are either not smart enough or too lazy to make enough money so autocannons at 3M are no problem. Just because you're poor doesn't mean that other people that do work hard for their money (or the occasional few that just were lucky, hey that's life) should have no right to become rich either. And for everyone who thinks that being a trader with T II items is a easy job: you don't know what you are talking about. Manufacturing and trading It involves a lot of tedious and stupid work like getting enough minerals and components together, hassling for researchslots and productionslots, keeping the market under surveillance, sitting the whole day in the same station and those constant whiners who think you are overpriced and they deserve your stuff for barely mineralcost. --- soonÖ |
Toran Mehtar |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[85] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills |
Toran Mehtar |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[86] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills |
 Toran Mehtar Amarr Imperial Shipment |
Posted - 2004.10.21 17:04:00 -
[87] My thoughts ? This autocannon consortium are a bunch of price fixing noobs. They should have bought out your stock at the price you were selling for and resold at 3 mil. That way they make the extra profit, not you. And people wonder why CCP are bringing out trade skills |
2short |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[88] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
2short |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[89] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
 2short Caldari Space Dust Corp |
Posted - 2004.10.22 07:44:00 -
[90] WTS CHeeeeese :P |
Bohr |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:16:00 -
[91]
You another one of the asshats with a cap-recharger II BPO? |
Bohr |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:16:00 -
[92]
You another one of the asshats with a cap-recharger II BPO? |
 Bohr |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:16:00 -
[93]
You another one of the asshats with a cap-recharger II BPO? |
Feta Solamnia |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:22:00 -
[94] Edited by: Feta Solamnia on 22/10/2004 09:26:31 I totally agree with FunGuy. Your stock balance (in other words the demand at your price in conjuction with your production ability) indicates if you should drop or up your price. Anything other than that will either earn you less than you could (like naga ppl, I never could understand their business tactics), or you'd end up with an increasing stock. I've been thinking if the term "price fixing" is possible at any extent in eve. Even if ALL miners agreed to a "price" to sell for (which is clearly impossible), that'd still fall under the same case. Less sales => big stock =>nobody happy. And if this can't happen with minerals (the most essential item in eve), I don't think it can ever happen. Unless this "price fixing" term is regarding a common pricing strategy between sellers. They decide to price their items the same and change em according to demand at the same coordinated manner. That could protect them from overzealous undercuting and hence a safer sales strategy, and make market intel easier. This ofc has nothing to do with the proj example "we will sell at 3m, PERIOD". Shameless sales plug: Oooh, I got 4k thermonuclear trigs on sale at Kermek (next to Yulai), please stop this "price fixing" and buy em!  |
Feta Solamnia |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:22:00 -
[95] Edited by: Feta Solamnia on 22/10/2004 09:26:31 I totally agree with FunGuy. Your stock balance (in other words the demand at your price in conjuction with your production ability) indicates if you should drop or up your price. Anything other than that will either earn you less than you could (like naga ppl, I never could understand their business tactics), or you'd end up with an increasing stock. I've been thinking if the term "price fixing" is possible at any extent in eve. Even if ALL miners agreed to a "price" to sell for (which is clearly impossible), that'd still fall under the same case. Less sales => big stock =>nobody happy. And if this can't happen with minerals (the most essential item in eve), I don't think it can ever happen. Unless this "price fixing" term is regarding a common pricing strategy between sellers. They decide to price their items the same and change em according to demand at the same coordinated manner. That could protect them from overzealous undercuting and hence a safer sales strategy, and make market intel easier. This ofc has nothing to do with the proj example "we will sell at 3m, PERIOD". Shameless sales plug: Oooh, I got 4k thermonuclear trigs on sale at Kermek (next to Yulai), please stop this "price fixing" and buy em! |
 Feta Solamnia |
Posted - 2004.10.22 09:22:00 -
[96] Edited by: Feta Solamnia on 22/10/2004 09:26:31 I totally agree with FunGuy. Your stock balance (in other words the demand at your price in conjuction with your production ability) indicates if you should drop or up your price. Anything other than that will either earn you less than you could (like naga ppl, I never could understand their business tactics), or you'd end up with an increasing stock. I've been thinking if the term "price fixing" is possible at any extent in eve. Even if ALL miners agreed to a "price" to sell for (which is clearly impossible), that'd still fall under the same case. Less sales => big stock =>nobody happy. And if this can't happen with minerals (the most essential item in eve), I don't think it can ever happen. Unless this "price fixing" term is regarding a common pricing strategy between sellers. They decide to price their items the same and change em according to demand at the same coordinated manner. That could protect them from overzealous undercuting and hence a safer sales strategy, and make market intel easier. This ofc has nothing to do with the proj example "we will sell at 3m, PERIOD". Shameless sales plug: Oooh, I got 4k thermonuclear trigs on sale at Kermek (next to Yulai), please stop this "price fixing" and buy em!
|
 Cruz |
Posted - 2004.10.22 13:50:00 -
[97] If you know who to buy from you dont have to worry about price fixers ;-) You could always buy 200mm IIs from freewheeling for 1.25mil btw  ................. |
Cruz |
Posted - 2004.10.22 13:50:00 -
[98] If you know who to buy from you dont have to worry about price fixers ;-) You could always buy 200mm IIs from freewheeling for 1.25mil btw ................. |
 Cruz Caldari Provisions |
Posted - 2004.10.22 13:50:00 -
[99] If you know who to buy from you dont have to worry about price fixers ;-) You could always buy 200mm IIs from freewheeling for 1.25mil btw --------------------------- For the glory of the empire! |
Meriatalantra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:52:00 -
[100] I am one of the "ebil scumsucking price fixers" for the 200mm Autocannon 2. I contacted Pablo to ask if he wanted to join with us to stabilise the price having seen exactly what happened when everyone started a pricing war on the miner 2 BPO. He decided he would prefer to sell his guns cheaply and seeing as he is not even a BPO owner I didn't really give it much thought. But it's been fun baiting him. What Senior Pablo is forgetting to tell you is that he actually bought his guns for 1.5 mil off of the market and is now scared he will loose cash if we all drop our price to a level lower than he bought them at. So don't think that his post is about "fair trade for all" please guys. Fact is, the tech 2 guns are not selling that well at the moment because not many have the skills for them. I think all the tech 2 200mm auto manufacturers are currently agreed to keep the price at 2 mil because a) it's affordable and b) it won't destroy the meta tech-1 market (go check NAGA prices for instance. Scouts are 1.25 mil!) And due to the low volume of sales at the moment it means it's still worthwhile our supplying the market. There was even a post on this very forum a few months ago asking the best price to sell the 200mm autos at and peeps were saying around the 4 mil mark. Fact is, studying the market constantly and changing prices to drop yours 0.01 ISK below the next lowest price is BORING AS HELL so it's easier for all concerned to set the price at a level where peeps are happy to buy and manufacturers are happy to sell. Gaining agreement between manufacturers is merely a convenience measure. Rest assured, if the market demands the price to drop then it will drop. It's already gone down from 3 mil to 2 mil simply because it was too expensive. If it turns out that demand is unsustainable at 2 mil then it will drop further. But right now, that's the price. Unless you go and buy Pablo's last 6 remaining 200mms in Yulai, of course.  |
Meriatalantra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:52:00 -
[101] I am one of the "ebil scumsucking price fixers" for the 200mm Autocannon 2. I contacted Pablo to ask if he wanted to join with us to stabilise the price having seen exactly what happened when everyone started a pricing war on the miner 2 BPO. He decided he would prefer to sell his guns cheaply and seeing as he is not even a BPO owner I didn't really give it much thought. But it's been fun baiting him. What Senior Pablo is forgetting to tell you is that he actually bought his guns for 1.5 mil off of the market and is now scared he will loose cash if we all drop our price to a level lower than he bought them at. So don't think that his post is about "fair trade for all" please guys. Fact is, the tech 2 guns are not selling that well at the moment because not many have the skills for them. I think all the tech 2 200mm auto manufacturers are currently agreed to keep the price at 2 mil because a) it's affordable and b) it won't destroy the meta tech-1 market (go check NAGA prices for instance. Scouts are 1.25 mil!) And due to the low volume of sales at the moment it means it's still worthwhile our supplying the market. There was even a post on this very forum a few months ago asking the best price to sell the 200mm autos at and peeps were saying around the 4 mil mark. Fact is, studying the market constantly and changing prices to drop yours 0.01 ISK below the next lowest price is BORING AS HELL so it's easier for all concerned to set the price at a level where peeps are happy to buy and manufacturers are happy to sell. Gaining agreement between manufacturers is merely a convenience measure. Rest assured, if the market demands the price to drop then it will drop. It's already gone down from 3 mil to 2 mil simply because it was too expensive. If it turns out that demand is unsustainable at 2 mil then it will drop further. But right now, that's the price. Unless you go and buy Pablo's last 6 remaining 200mms in Yulai, of course. |
 Meriatalantra TerraDyne Syndicate |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:52:00 -
[102] I am one of the "ebil scumsucking price fixers" for the 200mm Autocannon 2. I contacted Pablo to ask if he wanted to join with us to stabilise the price having seen exactly what happened when everyone started a pricing war on the miner 2 BPO. He decided he would prefer to sell his guns cheaply and seeing as he is not even a BPO owner I didn't really give it much thought. But it's been fun baiting him. What Senior Pablo is forgetting to tell you is that he actually bought his guns for 1.5 mil off of the market and is now scared he will loose cash if we all drop our price to a level lower than he bought them at. So don't think that his post is about "fair trade for all" please guys. Fact is, the tech 2 guns are not selling that well at the moment because not many have the skills for them. I think all the tech 2 200mm auto manufacturers are currently agreed to keep the price at 2 mil because a) it's affordable and b) it won't destroy the meta tech-1 market (go check NAGA prices for instance. Scouts are 1.25 mil!) And due to the low volume of sales at the moment it means it's still worthwhile our supplying the market. There was even a post on this very forum a few months ago asking the best price to sell the 200mm autos at and peeps were saying around the 4 mil mark. Fact is, studying the market constantly and changing prices to drop yours 0.01 ISK below the next lowest price is BORING AS HELL so it's easier for all concerned to set the price at a level where peeps are happy to buy and manufacturers are happy to sell. Gaining agreement between manufacturers is merely a convenience measure. Rest assured, if the market demands the price to drop then it will drop. It's already gone down from 3 mil to 2 mil simply because it was too expensive. If it turns out that demand is unsustainable at 2 mil then it will drop further. But right now, that's the price. Unless you go and buy Pablo's last 6 remaining 200mms in Yulai, of course. |
Sabahl |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:57:00 -
[103] Or we could always drop our price to NAGA's... New player in town, obviously. Either way, Pablo's a tad screwed, poor mite. |
Sabahl |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:57:00 -
[104] Or we could always drop our price to NAGA's... New player in town, obviously. Either way, Pablo's a tad screwed, poor mite. |
 Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:57:00 -
[105] Or we could always drop our price to NAGA's... New player in town, obviously. Either way, Pablo's a tad screwed, poor mite. MEGALOTTERY Now Open! Win a TITAN BPO!!! Poor bard, I must give you a cookie!- Tirg |
Meriatalantra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:58:00 -
[106]
Oh bugger, didn't know they had a BP. Looks like a price drop is on the way then... |
Meriatalantra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:58:00 -
[107]
Oh bugger, didn't know they had a BP. Looks like a price drop is on the way then... |
Meriatalantra TerraDyne Syndicate |
Posted - 2004.10.22 14:58:00 -
[108]
Oh bugger, didn't know they had a BP. Looks like a price drop is on the way then... |
Sabahl |
Posted - 2004.10.22 15:02:00 -
[109] To back up Meri, when I originally asked what price I should sell the 200mm 2s at the answer from the forums was "4-5 mil each". So stop your bellyaching. *walks away muttering something about "bloody carebears" under his breath* |
Sabahl |
Posted - 2004.10.22 15:02:00 -
[110] To back up Meri, when I originally asked what price I should sell the 200mm 2s at the answer from the forums was "4-5 mil each". So stop your bellyaching. *walks away muttering something about "bloody carebears" under his breath* |
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2004.10.22 15:02:00 -
[111] To back up Meri, when I originally asked what price I should sell the 200mm 2s at the answer from the forums was "4-5 mil each". So stop your bellyaching. *walks away muttering something about "bloody carebears" under his breath* MEGALOTTERY Now Open! Win a TITAN BPO!!! Poor bard, I must give you a cookie!- Tirg |
 Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. Red Alliance |
Posted - 2007.01.29 23:05:00 -
[112] Hmmm, old thread, but I freakin' hope CCP removes all t2 BPOs from the game eventually. :) Those cartel prices on many t2 items are totally insane, I don't have ****loads of RL time to earn isk just to pay some greedy daddy just because he got lucky in the lottery. |
 Jessamine Freedom United |
Posted - 2007.01.30 01:07:00 -
[113]
dude... WTH...
|
 Carter Burke |
Posted - 2007.01.30 04:51:00 -
[114] I invite you to do whatever you can to try to stop your imaginary 'fixing' of prices. So long as it will stop your whining. There are no cartels, fool. There are only sellers competing with one another over what they have to sell, which are commodity items. That you cannot afford them is not the problem of the supplier. CB |
 Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2007.01.30 05:10:00 -
[115] My character was but a mear glint in the EVE servers cpu when this thread was first posted. holy crap. ----- |
 Rshu Jhorlk |
Posted - 2007.01.30 07:45:00 -
[116] In Soviet RuSHia, thread bump you. |
 RexZor |
Posted - 2007.01.30 08:43:00 -
[117] COME ON DO THE NECRO WITH ME AGAIN *RexZor Dances again...  this is the 10th necro thread i have seen today |
 LordAmarus |
Posted - 2007.01.30 11:54:00 -
[118] is this a joke? I mean the 200 mm cartel idiots... No1 in his right mind will buy 200 ac's at 3 mill and hell they r screwed anyway. Jita , ours , rens HELL EVEN VUOR AND ORVOLLE sell those little guns at top prices of 800 k p/u. I wouldn't really be bothered by these price fixers since it's useless. they'll ruin themselves. |
 Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2007.01.30 12:08:00 -
[119]
Emm - This thread started back in 2004. Perhaps that explains things? :) -- Slot 10 Blacklight's Modified 'GMhaX' implant +8% Pwnage FREE |
 Pragor terra firma team |
Posted - 2007.01.30 13:52:00 -
[120] Er remind me why this is in Sell Forums again???? |
 Mireste Zhujiang |
Posted - 2007.01.30 14:16:00 -
[121] Heh. I sell CR2's from a BPO. I get more hate mail from doing that than I ever have done pvping. One guy evemailed me with the standard consortium..we'll undercut you... blah when I undercut him by 500k. He was quite offensive but I don't care. I replied 'CR2's are too expensive anyway' and dumped the price by a further mil. I win because I don't need the isk :D Screw 'em all. I hate price fixers and have every intention off peeing them off at every chance. |
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