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Moving TMPI Shares based on current valuation

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HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.24 17:37:00 - [61] Originally by: Curzon Dax 2. If this whole thing is about 50 billion ISK, I can only lol. That's great for you. But recent history shows the rest of us that if you toss off 50 b here and 50 b there... sooner than later you'll be 1.2 trillion in the hole. Ivory Tower Syndrome as it is commonly referred. Fine for an individualist like yourself. But for people trying to demonstrate that they have some level of business savvy; some level of competence with handling money; and the ethical backbone to be trust with other people's money, Ivory Tower indicators are true signs that something is going wrong. Even your own recent post (damn fine one) about "smart" investing proves my point and mocks the one you've made here. The difficulty I'm having is the obstinate refusal by Ji Sama to engage in good accounting practices here. If such had been applied this entire drama would not exist. And, of course, it only strengthens my own determination of this business and it's end goal. Essentially TMPI has transformed its business to "send me 1 and I'll send you 3". Just because it is not "Ji Sama" who is getting the windfall from public suckers does not mean it is not a scam. It just means that some bleeding heart lemming (or troll) will muddy the waters by saying, "Where's the 100% proof?!?" I'll just point them towards the cliff and say, "have at it." PS: I'll await more criminal charges for not speaking out enough about this when it does go badly. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:06:00 - [62] At first i was kinda offended by shars attack, i have now slept on his post, and i can see know what it is he means, more clearly anyways than before. It is to late to remedy the situation, what is done is done, atleast i have learned something from this. Personally i thought it was a good healthy move, TMPI had earned its assets, and since the IPO and the CORP is a complete deal, i only found it natural to roll over any valuables and assets, making the CORP/IPO complete thought of speak. It was not to inflate the share price, it was to provide the investors and myself with a good healthy corp. Many things have happened since then, i will go into the think box, and will come out on the other side of the fanfest... kudos :)
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:45:00 - [63] Ji, you cost me 10m isk.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 21:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Solisk Ji, you cost me 10m isk. How come? Have you been drinking and betting again? I told you id call your mom and have her turn off the power to your basement.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 22:27:00 - [65] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: Solisk Ji, you cost me 10m isk. How come? Have you been drinking and betting again? I told you id call your mom and have her turn off the power to your basement. I made a bet that you'd do the right thing within a day and lost. :( Mind telling her to send me down a sammich too?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 22:37:00 - [66] The right thing is clearly subjective. What is the right thing? Backing down from my word? Taking what is no longer mine? Rage quitting? Admitting i have been playing champions online for a month? Eating waffels with or without mapple syrup? Trolling the forums? What right thing didnt i do?
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.24 22:49:00 - [67] Originally by: Ji Sama What right thing didnt i do? You haven't answered the pertinent questions of your investors. You've blatantly ignored the single glaring question on everyone's tongue. What about your 50 billion ISK worth of assets in your IPO? Are you going to pull it out at the end and devalue the shares significantly, or leave it in and contribute 50 billion ISK worth of personal funds to Eve. Depending on your answer to the first, why? Answer that question. -------------------------------------------------- Eve-Online Parodies: Music To Laugh To
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 23:53:00 - [68] Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Ji Sama What right thing didnt i do? You haven't answered the pertinent questions of your investors. You've blatantly ignored the single glaring question on everyone's tongue. What about your 50 billion ISK worth of assets in your IPO? Are you going to pull it out at the end and devalue the shares significantly, or leave it in and contribute 50 billion ISK worth of personal funds to Eve. Depending on your answer to the first, why? Answer that question. Hasn't he answered that several times now? He donated the 50b to the IPO and will not be taking it back. He will however be taking a small percentage of the IPO for administrative fees and salaries at the end to the tune of about 7b. Ji: I could tell you the right thing to do but if I did then you'd never learn.
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.09.25 00:59:00 - [69] Originally by: Ji Sama I am currently working with numbers around 5-10% of the total nav for my compensation when this is over. The rest will go back to the investors, that is correct. So if we where to use the current set up for a close shop scenario it would looke something like this. 74B NAV 7.4B Salaries 66.6B Investor Pay Out Originally by: Ji Sama 1: I have rolled all TMPI assets over into the IPO i did this 5-6 mths ago 2: No i will not be rolling any assets back, out of the IPO 3: I will take around 5-10% of the total NAV when this is done as salary. 4: currently buyback is 475K ISK per share, for the simple reason that i am not buying back shares yet, this is a courtesy i am offering my investors 5: I dont dictate anything, i am confirming how TMPI values it shares. TMPI CURRENTLY VALUATES its shares @ 1.35M Based on NAV. As it has been stated many times, we will be buying back shares at a price based on our NAV. That means that when i have taken my payment; the rest goes to the investors. I think these posts made Ji Sama's plans completely clear. Ji donated the 50B and doesn't plan to take any of it back, except for 5-10% of the NAV. I don't understand why there is still any confusion. Curzon Dax, your question "What happens to that 50 billion ISK?" appears to have been answered here. Why are you are still asking? While I partially understand Shar's complaints, I don't see how Ji could make a net profit through this donation (assuming Ji pays what was promised). If the investors are alts, Ji can make some money by selling the shares at the higher value, but loses more when he makes payments to the buyers and to the real investors. I do think that Ji should have made this clear when he initially announced the addition of 50B assets. At that time, you were extremely vague about what you would do with it at the end of the IPO and how much of a share you would take, and your accounting was questionable. There is still one question that has not been satisfactorily answered: Why did you donate 50B? Even after you take your 5-10% compensation, which is 3.7B to 7.4B, you are giving away over 40B. Why are you doing this, and why did you decide to do it in such a strange way? If you had just paid out a 200% bonus, everyone would have been happy and the situation would be much clearer.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.25 03:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Kapila Parthalan Why did you donate 50B? Even after you take your 5-10% compensation, which is 3.7B to 7.4B, you are giving away over 40B. This is a big question, indeed but it also glosses over another subtle but important fact: What actual profit or productivity did the original IPO do? A measure of success is not just returning agreed upon loans/funds/bonds. Any scammer can (and has) start an IPO, run it and pay interest payments, and then claim closure and success. All the while never running a business of any kind. Just prep work for the next IPO. Wash, rinse, repeat until you reach the critical mass point desired. Success has to be measured by where the profits came from. Did it come from the stated purpose of the IPO formation? Even if priorities had to shift (which they often do) can productivity be reasonably tracked and performance measured. Right now the accounting of TMPI is marginalized or at least the NAV. Ji and sellers of TMPI shares can say that the each share represents 1.5m (approx) isk worth of TMPI Nav. But that can not be accepted with any confidence. Capitalist love freebies, gifts baffle us. Ji Sama, we've known each other for a while now. You know me much better than I know you. I don't hold to what I'm saying from any personal animus or agenda. The problem is that no matter how nice you want to be you do your "corporation" a disservice for no discernibly rational reason. That is troubling to the capitalist mind. Bonus, fine. But gifting 200% more than the original ipo's worth? Insanity. No one trusts insanity. No one can have confidence in the current "value" of TMPI shares other than those trying to offload them. Plain and simple. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Katiana Swan	Posted - 2009.09.25 03:26:00 - [71] Does the 50 billion in assets gifted actually exist? Would this not (to some degree) show whether this was an artificial NAV increase to sell shares from other accounts at inflated prices or if the NAV has truly increased. People seem to be more focused on determining why the 50b was gifted rather than whether it exists in the first place. That's where I would be looking first if I was an investor.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.25 03:48:00 - [72] Originally by: Katiana Swan Does the 50 billion in assets gifted actually exist? Would this not (to some degree) show whether this was an artificial NAV increase to sell shares from other accounts at inflated prices or if the NAV has truly increased. People seem to be more focused on determining why the 50b was gifted rather than whether it exists in the first place. That's where I would be looking first if I was an investor. Well TMPI holds 5B in bonds from Cosmoray Holdings paying 4.25% per month
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.25 08:57:00 - [73] Originally by: Katiana Swan Does the 50 billion in assets gifted actually exist? Would this not (to some degree) show whether this was an artificial NAV increase to sell shares from other accounts at inflated prices or if the NAV has truly increased. People seem to be more focused on determining why the 50b was gifted rather than whether it exists in the first place. That's where I would be looking first if I was an investor. I was audited and the 50B was confirmed from multiple sources. I am currently invested in many blue chips incl cosmo above, and currently have around 25B invested in blue chips, and another 5B in the normal IPO/Bond market. THAT BEING SAID, there is nothing that proves me right, other than my previous actions, audits and reports. But i could very well have emptied the corp for other assets, and just invested some of it back into the secondary market, over the 6mths. Because of internal security, our economic reports have been withheld from the public. And no new audit has been made. However, this will be remidied bvefore the new year.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.25 09:08:00 - [74] Originally by: HawkBlade ... Ok shar, now you are starting to create some very valid questions. I am afraid though that i am not in a position to answer them, not because of ignorance, but because of recent events, unfolding ingame. You are very right, that a measure of succes, isnt just; timely paid dividends, return of principal etc. I can however, for the sake of the investors peace of mind, reveal a little as to where the profit is comming from. Primarily the first 4 mths, the income came from market manipulation and normal trading activities. However over the last month or two, i have been filtering funds more directly into projects ingame, and other investments here in the secondary market. And getting less and less income from trading (because of less time online) Something is questionable, since we have lost 1B of our NAV, and i understand that. But markets fluctuate, and we where all hit by some of the market crashes, etc. I understand your critique, i can see now what the problem is, i will talk to my board, and i will talk to my investors. Though one thing needs to be mentioned. I dont plan to shut down TMPI, and im pretty sure when i do, i will quit the game aswell. That was the main reason for not thinking more about giving the 50B, because i live for TMPI, and i play for TMPI. If i for some reason wont be running TMPI anymore, there is no reason for me to horde imaginary funds in a internet spaceship game. Its not like i have to plan for my retirement fund ingame!
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.25 20:34:00 - [75] Edited by: HawkBlade on 25/09/2009 20:34:28 Originally by: Ji Sama Though one thing needs to be mentioned. I dont plan to shut down TMPI, and im pretty sure when i do, i will quit the game aswell. That was the main reason for not thinking more about giving the 50B, because i live for TMPI, and i play for TMPI. If i for some reason wont be running TMPI anymore, there is no reason for me to horde imaginary funds in a internet spaceship game. This does add some rationale to events however there is the ugly downside: Since you never plan to shut TMPI down it is distinctly possible that there will never be buy back offers at TMPI "miscalculated" NAV. People "buying in" now will only be able to get out by foisting off shares on other, newer/fresher, suckers. Of course this point is only of importance to competent or smart market traders. Morons may feel free to ignore this. Rare Edit Note: Changed ever to never See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.09.26 02:25:00 - [76] Originally by: Ji Sama Though one thing needs to be mentioned. I dont plan to shut down TMPI, and im pretty sure when i do, i will quit the game aswell. That was the main reason for not thinking more about giving the 50B, because i live for TMPI, and i play for TMPI. If i for some reason wont be running TMPI anymore, there is no reason for me to horde imaginary funds in a internet spaceship game. Ok, your donation to TMPI now makes much more sense. I am concerned about this: Originally by: Ji Sama Because of internal security, our economic reports have been withheld from the public. And no new audit has been made. However, this will be remidied bvefore the new year. Since there haven't been audits, how do investors know that you have really been paying 33% of profits as promised? Originally by: Ji Sama Return on investment will be 33% of the profit estimated at a 7% return per month i.e. 35.000 ISK per share per month. Your dividend payments so far average to about 10% of the original IPO value, but only to about 3% of the NAV. Why are your interest payments so low?
Katiana Swan	Posted - 2009.09.26 03:00:00 - [77] Can it be assumed, based on your 50b asset injection, that all future dividends will be far higher than they have previously been? If not, then people purchasing shares at such a high price would suffer a much lower return on investment than those who purchased before the gratuity was provided.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 09:56:00 - [78] Dividend payments is based on PROFIT, not NAV. However i agree that it is MISREPRESENTING, when we say that we paid out 10% etc. because as you mention we only paying out 3% based on NAV, but the 10% is based on the initial IPO injection. I can see how this is misrepresenting. However, when TMPI closes shop, the investors that have paid the NAV worth of the shares will be fully compensated, so they dont lose anything, they just dont get as high a profit as people who bought the shares during the launch, and tbh i dont see anything wrong with that, thats how stocks work, if you get them at a lower price (because of whatever) you recieve a larger profit. There has been more than 3 audits done (one was made by Caleb though, and i am associated with him, so it can be questioned) There will be a new audit done, before the year is over, not as much as to prove anything else than current activities and assets. Also for clarification, as far as i know, there arent any investors here in the thread asking questions. To my knowledge i so far have a 100% investor satisfication! Some like Curzon have a whole other political agenda for stirring up trouble in this thread, repeating the same questions even though they have been answered many times, this is the way of EVE, and cointelpro is very much used even on the MD forums.
Jadun	Posted - 2009.09.26 11:07:00 - [79] Originally by: Ji Sama To my knowledge i so far have a 100% investor satisfication! 1 day a month you make me 110 % happy :).
Katiana Swan	Posted - 2009.09.26 14:13:00 - [80] Edited by: Katiana Swan on 26/09/2009 14:14:45 Originally by: Ji Sama Dividend payments is based on PROFIT, not NAV. Well thats the thing.If your NAV has increased by over 100%, should profit not increase as well? Otherwise you have effectively added assets with no value until the undetermined point of closure. It would be the equivalent of me running a dairy farm corporation with shareholders. I then decide to purchase a skysc**r with my own funds to place on the dairy farm. The skyscr servers no purpose whatsoever. Any new shareholders are paying the price of the dairy farm (inclusive of the skyscr) however the dairy farm is producing exactly the same income. Sure, they might get their money back at the end of the investment, but their return on investment is 1/3 of those who invested before I purchased the skysc**r. So why would anyone buy shares based on this information? I guess the lack of purchases in this thread is a clear indicator. Interesting that none of your current investors who have 100% happiness are buying these shares either. The language filter doesn't like the word S-K-Y-S-C-R-A-P-E-R
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.26 17:01:00 - [81] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 26/09/2009 17:01:17 I don't know... He says he will give himself shares Then he says he won't Then he says that by shares, he means compensation He says he pays 10% of NAV as dividend Then he says he pays 3% of NAV as dividend Then he says he pays 10% of the profit as dividend He says he will do audits Then he says he won't release economic reports Then he says he won't do audits Ji has changed so many things about what he says and usually gives the excuse of "my engrish is bad" I don't really trust this IPO anymore
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 17:52:00 - [82] Brock, your so full of ***** it hurts my eyes to read your drivel! I didnt say i would give my self shares, i said i would give my self A share of the profit. So stop with the obvious lying. Never said i paid 10% of NAV in dividend, i said i paid around 10% of the initial IPO injection as dividend. I have had 3 audits done. I have said another audit will be done before the year is over. I have not once said i wouldnt have an audit done. Brock you i dont know what your problem is but i wont stand for your lies. I dont want your trust, i want my investors trust, and so far nothing have shown that i dont have it.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 18:03:00 - [83] @kat I wrote a rather extensive reply to you, but the 5 min posting rule ate it. So you get the short version. 1: If the assets that was injected was a profit i should have paid no less than 18B out in dividend the month it was injected, that would have just been suicide, since it was ASSETS, and not liquid ISK. 2: I am not selling TMPI shares, i dont care who sells or buys TMPI shares, i was only posting in this thread to confirm the valuation. 3: After that post, questions and concerns where raised, and i merely tried to answer/explain these to the best of my ability. Expect and investor vote in regards to the injected assets, when i return home from iceland. This is my last post in this thread, as we are just running in circles and that is a waste of my time.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.26 18:51:00 - [84] Originally by: Ji Sama 2: I am not selling TMPI shares, i dont care who sells or buys TMPI shares, i was only posting in this thread to confirm the valuation. This is the critical part that you can not prove. It is why I rate TMPI as High Risk, Likely Scam. You are the cause of the circular discussion as you keep going back to unverifiable statements or making irrational assertions. Investors should care about how long you intend to run the business. Saying that the day you close TMPI is the day you leave Eve is not a reassurance. Having people now buy shares based on hyperinflated NAV but still only receive the IPO's initial dividend is criminal. The only recent fact that apparently has come to light is that TMPI did, in fact, fail. You needed a 50 billion isk injection to create a revenue stream suitable to give out the original dividend value. Otherwise you should be easily able to afford 4% dividend on 75 billion (the current nav) instead of 4% dividend on 25 billion. This is the reason TMPI, and yourself, is looking less and less reputable. The sheer confusion of statements and your obstinate manner. Too Many Public Inquiries (TMPI) = Junk Bond Status. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:13:00 - [85] Edited by: Ji Sama on 26/09/2009 19:14:30 Thank you for your feedback shar. im not paying 4% dividends on 24.5B im paying around 10% dividend on 24.5B atm if i pay 4% of 75B = 3B dividend, or i pay 10% on 24.5B = 2.45B where is the difference? in payments that is, we are talking about 500M. That being said, i cant start to pay out 4% dividends, because i promised my investors atleast 7%. now paying 7% on a 75B nav would be a problem, since that ammounts to 5.25B meaning i have to make no less than 15.75B profit per month, atm i simply cant do that. It doesnt scale that way shar, you of all people should know that. also, you know what a FACT is, and you dont have a FACT, you have an assumption, stating that as fact is just plain wrong. I didnt promise my investors that i would create a 30% profit on 75B i said i could make a 30% profit on 24.5B, there is a huge difference, and i cant understand why you cannot see the difference. And i am not stubborn (had to look that up :p) the fact that i am having an investor vote, when i return from fanfest, as what to do with this extra assets shows this. I disagree with being irrational, atleast in the way your trying to discredit me :)
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:31:00 - [86] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 26/09/2009 19:26:24 edit: what you also fail to realize is that the assets injected where mostly passive assets, they dont generate an income! Then why even bother injecting them?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:34:00 - [87] Edited by: Ji Sama on 26/09/2009 19:34:15 I thought i was doing something good for the corp and my investors, you are repeating yourself brock :) Though i can see now, that there are alot of complications to what i did, as stated i will therefore make an investor vote, where they can decide what we should do! In the event of a withdrawal of assets, the people who have bought shares at the inflated price (as per the lecherito sale) will have to be compensated.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:48:00 - [88] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 26/09/2009 19:49:51 I'm not repeating myself, everytime someone ask a question, you always add new information. Quote: In the event of a withdrawal of assets, the people who have bought shares at the inflated price (as per the lecherito sale) will have to be compensated. See? New information You set out with a plan, the IPO doc and since then, there has been hundreds of changes and reversal of changes to the point where investors don't even know what you're doing or what you plan to do.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.26 19:59:00 - [89] Thats funny, because i think i am fairly consistent, truthfull and honerable. I have gone out of my length to make sure, what was done was done in the fairest posible way. I know why you frustrated Brock, and it has nothing to do with me or tmpi. Now stop before this turn into a flame fest. You insinuations sickens me tbh.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.26 20:04:00 - [90] Originally by: Ji Sama Thats funny, because i think i am fairly consistent, truthfull and honerable. I have gone out of my length to make sure, what was done was done in the fairest posible way. I know why you frustrated Brock, and it has nothing to do with me or tmpi. Now stop before this turn into a flame fest. You insinuations sickens me tbh. Consistent? You do know what that words mean right? Because if you're anything, it isn't consistent. I'm not saying you're a liar or dishonorable, just because I ask the same question over and over doesn't mean I'm accusing you of trying to hide something. You keep giving answers to one question and then give another answer to the same question later. This isn't about me, don't try to turn it around and act like my therapist.

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