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Moving TMPI Shares based on current valuation

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Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.09.07 13:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Keyser Kahn on 07/09/2009 15:39:45 I need to work on a bit more liquidity for a project I have coming up (and it's nothing to do with public funds) so looking through my wallet I've decided to divest myself of my TMPI shares - all 8800 of them. The original IPO thread is http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1060101. This has been a good performer with consistent and timely dividend payments (my wallet is possibly flashing as I type this). I'm looking for 1.35m per share as based upon the current NAV of TMPI. I thought I would start this as a straight selling post (and yes, I know this is MD not Sell Orders but it seems more appropriate here). If you are interested let me know how many shares you want and I'll note it in the thread and issue the shares once payment is received. Speaking of which: shares will be issued to the Character sending the money if you are not happy in sending me the money before receipt of the shares then I am happy to make an arrangement with a third party such as Ji Sama, Caleb or Bad Bobby etc., who I am sure for a suitable % of the proceeds (my proceeds for clarification) will assist. I have not made pre-arrangements for this at this time but will as stated if required. Okay thats pretty much it - will reserve next post for if there is interest. Edited title and attempt to get link to work - kinda failed at that
Magnu Stormhawk	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:35:00 - [2] Can you clarify something for me: You are valuing the shares at 1.35m based on NAV. Yet from what I have read, a significant portion of that NAV relates to 50 Billion of TMPI assets. Ji Sama may (quite rightly) take an amount of this back on close down in order to not be out of pocket (like, all 50 Bn). If the buy back value is still 95% of par value, then the 0.85m premium on the shares makes no sense to me. It equates to 2 years of dividends at 7%. I will happily be enlightened if I have missed something. I just dont see how you can increase the NAV of an IPO and base share valuations on it, when the increase in value is not owned by the shareholders.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.09.07 16:42:00 - [3] Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, tbh --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.07 18:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk Can you clarify something for me: You are valuing the shares at 1.35m based on NAV. Yet from what I have read, a significant portion of that NAV relates to 50 Billion of TMPI assets. Ji Sama may (quite rightly) take an amount of this back on close down in order to not be out of pocket (like, all 50 Bn). If the buy back value is still 95% of par value, then the 0.85m premium on the shares makes no sense to me. It equates to 2 years of dividends at 7%. I will happily be enlightened if I have missed something. I just dont see how you can increase the NAV of an IPO and base share valuations on it, when the increase in value is not owned by the shareholders. I agree with this, the IPO started with a number of shares valued at 500k and is said to be tied to the total NAV of the IPO. Once the IPO started, Ji went on to add 50b of assets (or whatever the figure was) to the NAV without issuing himself shares for those 50b asset, the value of shares jumped for no reason. What happens if he takes his 50b asset back when the IPO ends? You're outta luck because you overpaid 850k for each share.
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.09.07 18:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Captain Pompous Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, tbh Ok - performed well, paid dividends on time, paid dividends at a good rate of return - clearly this indicates a sinking ship? As stated in the OP I need more liquidity available to me for another venture - but w/ever, opinions are like..... Obviously you may have information not available to me in which case - good job, or you could merely be trolling the thread. Originally by: Magnu Stormhawk Can you clarify something for me: You are valuing the shares at 1.35m based on NAV. Yet from what I have read, a significant portion of that NAV relates to 50 Billion of TMPI assets. Ji Sama may (quite rightly) take an amount of this back on close down in order to not be out of pocket (like, all 50 Bn). If the buy back value is still 95% of par value, then the 0.85m premium on the shares makes no sense to me. It equates to 2 years of dividends at 7%. I will happily be enlightened if I have missed something. I just dont see how you can increase the NAV of an IPO and base share valuations on it, when the increase in value is not owned by the shareholders. Yes I am valuing my shares at this level as TMPI has only issued the shares relating to this IPO. I have read nothing in the IPO that indicates the shares are restricted to a certain portion only of TMPI. I can't answer to what Ji is planning with regards to wrapping up this IPO I can only go on existing performance and the statements in the IPO. Like any other investment in Eve we all make our own minds up & if you feel it is overvalued or of no interest to you then thats your decision and good for you . If there is no interest in a straight sale (or palatable offers) then I may choose to turn this into an auction. Thank you for your comments.
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.09.07 19:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Keyser Kahn Obviously you may have information not available to me in which case - good job, or you could merely be trolling the thread. My intention is to impart information in an oblique and opaque manner, sir :) --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.07 21:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Keyser Kahn Ok - performed well, paid dividends on time, paid dividends at a good rate of return Unbelievable performance actually. You've gotten months of dividends and now you are valuing your shares from the initial purchase of 4.4 billion at 11.88 billion. Wow. PS: This is more original than "send me 1 and I'll give you 3". More like "send me 3 and I'll give you 1". See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Keyser Kahn Stellar-Parallax Corp Legio Mithras	Posted - 2009.09.07 21:20:00 - [8] Originally by: HawkBlade PS: This is more original than "send me 1 and I'll give you 3". More like "send me 3 and I'll give you 1". http://eve-search.com/thread/1140643 Just saying
Kapila Parthalan	Posted - 2009.09.08 00:00:00 - [9] I don't understand how you are coming up with this valuation. So far, there has been a ROI just under 10% per month, and that was including a too-high payment due to a mistake. This is equivalent to 3.7% if you buy at 1.35m per share, which is pretty low. Also, my understanding is that upon buyback, you only receive .5m per share. Therefore, it takes 11 months at 10% just to break even. This price just doesn't make sense.
Jared D'Uroth Minmatar Universal Peace Operation	Posted - 2009.09.08 04:42:00 - [10] Edited by: Jared D''Uroth on 08/09/2009 04:42:38 Originally by: Captain Pompous Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, tbh lol can't believe you trusted Ji Sama with your isk He/she is worse than Armoured C. Seriously. He/She was a member of SDRR. The worst alliance it has been my displeasure to be a part of. === Quote: I think the point [of t3] was that your foes would never know how you were fit, adding the element of surprise. Like, surprise!!! I decided to go with EHP and DPS.
Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.08 04:46:00 - [11] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Keyser Kahn Ok - performed well, paid dividends on time, paid dividends at a good rate of return Unbelievable performance actually. You've gotten months of dividends and now you are valuing your shares from the initial purchase of 4.4 billion at 11.88 billion. Wow. PS: This is more original than "send me 1 and I'll give you 3". More like "send me 3 and I'll give you 1". FWIW, Lecherito recently managed to offload shares of TMPI at a similar value. It made no sense to me then either, but I wasn't going to press the issue. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.09.08 05:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Jared D'Uroth Edited by: Jared D''Uroth on 08/09/2009 04:42:38 Originally by: Captain Pompous Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, tbh lol can't believe you trusted Ji Sama with your isk He/she is worse than Armoured C. Seriously. He/She was a member of SDRR. The worst alliance it has been my displeasure to be a part of. I didn't, the OP did --- I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :(
Jared D'Uroth Minmatar Universal Peace Operation	Posted - 2009.09.09 04:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Captain Pompous Originally by: Jared D'Uroth Edited by: Jared D''Uroth on 08/09/2009 04:42:38 Originally by: Captain Pompous Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, tbh lol can't believe you trusted Ji Sama with your isk He/she is worse than Armoured C. Seriously. He/She was a member of SDRR. The worst alliance it has been my displeasure to be a part of. I didn't, the OP did I know you didn't Was adding on to your comment. === Quote: I think the point [of t3] was that your foes would never know how you were fit, adding the element of surprise. Like, surprise!!! I decided to go with EHP and DPS.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.23 23:58:00 - [14] Just for clarification. Shares are currently valued at 1.35M per share, based on the NAV of TMPI. Currently we are offering buyback at 475K per share, this will change when i close shop, currently as i am not closing shop, i am not offering a higher buyback atm. Over the last 6 mths, more than 12B have been paid out in dividends, thats a 50% return not counting buy back. If people dont WANT to pay more for the share i understand that, on the other hand, TMPI shares have been sold as high as 1.5M each. Who ever think TMPI is sinking is free to do that, i on the other hand have inside information that contradicts that. :) Good luck out there, see you at fan fest :)
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Ji Sama Shares are currently valued at 1.35M per share, based on the NAV of TMPI. Just for clarification, I now call scam. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:14:00 - [16] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama Shares are currently valued at 1.35M per share, based on the NAV of TMPI. Just for clarification, I now call scam. Please enlighten us shar :)
Mikael Genexi Gallente Product Number 3	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:22:00 - [17] People sure do like to throw the scam word around alot on the MD forums don't they.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Ji Sama Please enlighten us shar :) What you are doing here is the same thing that Enron did. You are adding external assets to inflate the share price. By having the NAV appear to triple in a short time creates a demand by those not aware of the dodgy accounting. Once 100% of all shares sell at 3 times actual value (or even your stated buy back) you can then effectively pay out 100% of the original bond price and claim success. In the end, you can profit 200% having sold the first 100%. Profit would of course be minus the bond payments you've made to demonstrate "dependability". Did I miss anything? See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Mikael Genexi People sure do like to throw the scam word around alot on the MD forums don't they. I thought that was the whole point of coming here? -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:30:00 - [20] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama Please enlighten us shar :) What you are doing here is the same thing that Enron did. You are adding external assets to inflate the share price. By having the NAV appear to triple in a short time creates a demand by those not aware of the dodgy accounting. Once 100% of all shares sell at 3 times actual value (or even your stated buy back) you can then effectively pay out 100% of the original bond price and claim success. In the end, you can profit 200% having sold the first 100%. Profit would of course be minus the bond payments you've made to demonstrate "dependability". Did I miss anything? Exactly what I pointed out when I noticed the jump in share price due to the addition of 50b in "asset"
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Brock Nelson Exactly what I pointed out when I noticed the jump in share price due to the addition of 50b in "asset" I wanted to wait till Ji Sama incriminated himself. Before now, it was possible that the current batch of sellers were capitalizing on an "irregularity". Once Ji Sama confirmed the inflated NAV, and even advertised overpriced sales, then complicity was apparent. See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:35:00 - [22] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama Please enlighten us shar :) What you are doing here is the same thing that Enron did. You are adding external assets to inflate the share price. By having the NAV appear to triple in a short time creates a demand by those not aware of the dodgy accounting. Once 100% of all shares sell at 3 times actual value (or even your stated buy back) you can then effectively pay out 100% of the original bond price and claim success. In the end, you can profit 200% having sold the first 100%. Profit would of course be minus the bond payments you've made to demonstrate "dependability". Did I miss anything? But i dont own any TMPI shares! How would i profit from this? Other that that, i see where your going! and i guess your right! If i owned any TMPI shares that is.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:39:00 - [23] Uh oh, Ji Ji made a Boo Boo.
HawkBlade	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Ji Sama But i dont own any TMPI shares! How would i profit from this? Other that that, i see where your going! and i guess your right! If i owned any TMPI shares that is. Wow, do you really think this line of reasoning will fly? See my twitterings about Eve Online. Be the first to hear me toot.
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama Shares are currently valued at 1.35M per share, based on the NAV of TMPI. Just for clarification, I now call scam. Please enlighten us shar :) It could be because no one gives anything for free and from what I understand that valuation is due to the fact that you have injected your own isks into the venture without taking shares, so I would ask you: Are you going to give that isks for free or are you going to take those before closing? The other one character selling shares has been already accused of working with/being you. EVE Knowledge
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Ji Sama on 24/09/2009 00:43:24 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Brock Nelson Exactly what I pointed out when I noticed the jump in share price due to the addition of 50b in "asset" I wanted to wait till Ji Sama incriminated himself. Before now, it was possible that the current batch of sellers were capitalizing on an "irregularity". Once Ji Sama confirmed the inflated NAV, and even advertised overpriced sales, then complicity was apparent. Your dreaming again shar. 1: this isnt NEWS, this was announced several months ago 2: i was simply confirming was what said a long time ago 3: the injection of assets happened right after the IPO launched. 4: i havent incriminated anything @ solisk, atleast let me **** up on my own, i do that just fine, no need to see ghosts where there arent any :) ATM this would be the baddest scam in history. TMPI currently have more than 30B invested in the IPO/BOND market. More than 12B have already been paid out in dividends. Couple that with the 95% buyback i stand to lose more than 66B counting the initial IPO investment!
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Ji Sama @ solisk, atleast let me **** up on my own, i do that just fine, no need to see ghosts where there arent any :) No arguments here! haha. Actually my previous post was just some good-natured ribbing. I don't quite understand the circumstances, so I'm waiting for things to come up so I can understand. Still seems odd that the isk was injected after the IPO and without any shares being issued to yourself. I would imagine the proper way to do this would be to "privately loan" the isk to the corp. Which of course wouldn't have affected the NAV up or down as the isk is seen as an asset and the debt as a liability.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:52:00 - [28] Edited by: Ji Sama on 24/09/2009 00:54:53 Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama Shares are currently valued at 1.35M per share, based on the NAV of TMPI. Just for clarification, I now call scam. Please enlighten us shar :) It could be because no one gives anything for free and from what I understand that valuation is due to the fact that you have injected your own isks into the venture without taking shares, so I would ask you: Are you going to give that isks for free or are you going to take those before closing? The other one character selling shares has been already accused of working with/being you. Fair enough, i have clarified this many times, recently in the TMPI IPO thread. The assets that the corp owned before the IPO was rolled over, so that there wasnt a difference between the IPO and the CORP. That way we only had one "account" to manage. Not a seperate CORP and IPO model! I am not taking any assets back that the corp had before the IPO. Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Ji Sama But i dont own any TMPI shares! How would i profit from this? Other that that, i see where your going! and i guess your right! If i owned any TMPI shares that is. Wow, do you really think this line of reasoning will fly? Yes i do think this will fly. Where do I stand to profit from this? I am not selling shares. I dont own a single share in TMPI! @solisk It wasnt ISK but assets already owned by the corp... They where just merged with the IPO.... Yes that meant i GAVE free stuff. that wasnt the first nor the last time i did so however.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:53:00 - [29] Ji, the fact that you added 50billion of assets without issuing yourself any shares or compensating yourself for it makes no sense at all. That's why it's been fishy since that transaction help inflated TMP's share price.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.09.24 00:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Brock Nelson Ji, the fact that you added 50billion of assets without issuing yourself any shares or compensating yourself for it makes no sense at all. That's why it's been fishy since that transaction help inflated TMP's share price. Very well Brock, however answer this: why is this apparently a problem now, and not 6 mths ago? i know you asked for clarification way back, but then the issue was closed, now shar brings it up like its news.. and starts to call scam, atleast do your homework. ATM i stand to lose on a TMPI scam. I have more invested outside TMPI than the initial IPO is worth. ATM no matter the outcome, i am sure i will only BREAK EVEN from this, because of the original 50B asset injection. Then why do i do it? Because i think its FUN. Because i like this aspect of EVE. Because this is a GAME!

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