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L4's and a Raven, Passive tanking possible? Is this fitting any good?

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Mystic5hadow Knights of the Black Abyss	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Mystic5hadow on 13/09/2009 06:43:51 Alright, so I plan to run L4's solo in my trusty Raven. Now, thing is, I have no idea what I'm going into.. I know most people prefer to Active Tank their Ravens, buuuuut.. I prefer passive. Thing is, I dunno if that's even possible with L4's. So I'd like some opinions on what you think I should do, also, I made a passive tank fitting, not too sure if it would hold up to L4's though.. [Raven, Level 4 Mission Runner] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Cap is steady at 58% 173.3 DPS 2079 Volley Effective HP is 59,240. Thoughts?
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:49:00 - [2] CCC rigs on a passive ship 173.3 DPS wow dood! work on your skills, it will take you like 20 hours to do a mission, that is if you can even break bs tanks. well it might work, but hey I can hammer a nail in with my forehead, doesn't make it a good idea for the sake of "I can"
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:50:00 - [3] No. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:00:00 - [4] i doubt it would hold up. average level 4s put up around 400DPS and tough ones nearer to 900DPS and that fit doesn't look like it could tank 400DPS. probably look instead for an active tank fit that can tank 400DPS and another one that can tank 900DPS and switch between them according to how tough the mission is. (you don't want to us the 900 DPS tanking one unless you have to as they usually have terrible damage due to few damage mods) OR just ignore all that active tanking and passive shield recharge tanking and go massive passive buffer tank (!) [Raven, Buffery the Mission Slayer] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II 100MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x5 You will have to warp in and out a few times. Dock and undock at stations and you will get an instant shield recharge. It may no appear so because of a display bug but you do. This passive buffer fit works for all mission difficulty levels. The harder the mission is, the more you have to warp in and out and the better your missile skills and damage gets the less you have to warp out. Kill NPCs with points first and warp out the moment you reach 70% shield. Haha this is definitely not conventional wisdom but it actually works... -DE
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Darthewok Haha this is definitely not conventional wisdom but it actually works... Extremely slowly. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Mystic5hadow Knights of the Black Abyss	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:03:00 - [6] Edited by: Mystic5hadow on 13/09/2009 07:05:35 Granted, that's everything if I wanted to fly it tonight, I wouldn't really need the CCC's if I took a couple days to train up a few skills. As for the DPS... -tear- I dun like any of the Active tanks I'm finding... But I figured I'd probably be stuck with them.
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:15:00 - [7] Edited by: Darthewok on 13/09/2009 07:24:10 Don't be surprised if the passive buffer tank fit with 4 BCS finishes faster than the average active tank with 1-2 BCS despite having to warp in and out to recharge shields. Of course a faction active tanking fit with 3-4 BCS will be better but way more expensive than passive buffer tank fit (will probably need faction mods). faction active tank > passive buffer tank > non-faction active tank IMO Your mileage may vary tho.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:20:00 - [8] Passive regen tanking doesn't really work on a BS. Try this, convert to T1 where needed. [Raven, pve] Damage Control II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Cruise Missile Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Leather Jack Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:33:00 - [9] You dont passive tank a BS. Period.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:55:00 - [10] Edited by: Von Kapiche on 13/09/2009 07:56:26 I have an active tank Raven on a not massively skilled alt... that generally needs about 10 rounds of the booster per mission. Never felt the urge to passive tank any BS ( except a brief flirtation with a fleet tempest ), and especially a Raven which never seems to have enough damage mods. Cap boosters seem a good idea on active shield boats. If you're going to passive tank the thing at least put the right rigs on so you can add some more damage...
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Leather Jack You dont passive tank a BS. Period. Rattlesnake Comma,
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:05:00 - [12] "You dont passive tank a BS. Period" That is not true Period. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Mystic5hadow Knights of the Black Abyss	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Von Kapiche Edited by: Von Kapiche on 13/09/2009 07:56:26 I have an active tank Raven on a not massively skilled alt... that generally needs about 10 rounds of the booster per mission. Never felt the urge to passive tank any BS ( except a brief flirtation with a fleet tempest ), and especially a Raven which never seems to have enough damage mods. Cap boosters seem a good idea on active shield boats. If you're going to passive tank the thing at least put the right rigs on so you can add some more damage... My Skills are ****, needed them to make the Cap stable. Thanks for the help guys, I'm thinking I might as well go active tank since it seems the easiest route, and the most popular.
Gekkoh Caldari Rearden Steel Foundry	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Mystic5hadow Edited by: Mystic5hadow on 13/09/2009 07:05:35 Granted, that's everything if I wanted to fly it tonight, I wouldn't really need the CCC's if I took a couple days to train up a few skills. As for the DPS... -tear- I dun like any of the Active tanks I'm finding... But I figured I'd probably be stuck with them. Train the two main cap skills to V, or IV if you've got other things to train. You will never regret it.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Darthewok [Raven, Buffery the Mission Slayer] 100MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I You will have to warp in and out a few times. Dock and undock at stations and you will get an instant shield recharge. Haha this is definitely not conventional wisdom but it actually works... Ever heard of an item called "Heavy Capacitor Booster II"? So you would rather dock back and forth rather than fill up with (15 + 5) Cap Boosters 800? Smart. You just won the Darwin award.
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Sturmwolke Ever heard of an item called "Heavy Capacitor Booster II"? ! the docking is for when your shield amount (not cap) is destroyed by the DPS. you dock for instant shield, not cap recharge. passive buffer tank has little to no cap problems. its very non-intuitive as not many people have tried them, so i guess its prone to misunderstanding.
Alsyth Astromechanica Maxima	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:59:00 - [17] You want to do lvl 4 passive-tanked ? Get a Drake, a Dominix or a Nighthawk. They can easily achieve 800ish specific tank while dealing 500dps. But... Active tank is more efficient in lvl4.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Darthewok ! the docking is for when your shield amount (not cap) is destroyed by the DPS. you dock for instant shield, not cap recharge. passive buffer tank has little to no cap problems. its very non-intuitive as not many people have tried them, so i guess its prone to misunderstanding. 20x Cap Booster 800 = 16000 cap 1 Large Shield Booster II - boosts 240 shield for 160 cap (with no skills modifier) = 24000 shields minimum. 1 X-Large C5-L - boosts 540 shield for 400 cap (with no skills modifier) = 21600 shields minimum. 4x hardener slots. 3x free rigs slot for CCC or Rigor Your Darwin award Raven, at max(!) skill adds 19854 shields. It's passive recharge is negligible. 2x hardeners slots. No free rig slot. Who wins?
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:18:00 - [19] have you actually flown that?
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:25:00 - [20] Sturmwolke said "Who wins?" Neither since both tank missions without a problem and both run missions at the same speed with the same damage output due to 4 damage mods. It doesn't matter which setup you take. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Darthewok have you actually flown that? Have you actually really done any L4 missions in a non-stupid Raven? Be honest.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/09/2009 09:30:59 My heads still not clear due to being ill but isnt 24000 shields minimum going take you over an hour to get with a large booster? Most missions with 4 damage mods takes well under 1 hour. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Pottsey Sturmwolke said "Who wins?" Neither since both tank missions without a problem and both run missions at the same speed with the same damage output due to 4 damage mods. It doesn't matter which setup you take. Same speed & damage output, really now? Please explain how you arrived at that conclusion.
Darthewok Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:31:00 - [24] Edited by: Darthewok on 13/09/2009 09:33:46 Originally by: Sturmwolke Originally by: Darthewok have you actually flown that? Have you actually really done any L4 missions in a non-stupid Raven? Be honest. dont deflect the question. have you done missions with the fit you described. i have some doubts whether the cap boost speed can keep up with the power requirements of the active boosters and hardeners and does your fit have an afterburner. i have done missions fine with my fit. by the way i have missioned in active tanked ravens too. i prefer buffer tank after actually comparing because they can fit 4 BCS without using faction fits and can do even really tough missions some non-faction active tanks cannot.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Alsyth You want to do lvl 4 passive-tanked ? Get a Drake, a Dominix or a Nighthawk. …or Myrmidon or Ishtar. Oh, and speaking of the Rattlesnake — has anyone looked into the proposed changes and checked if they will affect its PST:abillity? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:36:00 - [26] hrrm your right the active tank is slower due to no afterburner. Sorry my mistake. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 10:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Darthewok dont deflect the question. have you done missions with the fit you described. i have some doubts whether the cap boost speed can keep up with the power requirements of the active boosters and hardeners and does your fit have an afterburner. i have done missions fine with my fit. by the way i have missioned in active tanked ravens too. i prefer buffer tank after actually comparing because they can fit 4 BCS without using faction fits and can do even really tough missions some non-faction active tanks cannot. You're asking if a fish swims, which serves no purpose other than providing a distraction. To that matter, I don't use Ravens anymore except as backup ships. L4 missions is more about sustained endurance than buffering. Shield boosters, especially XL boosters have no trouble keeping up with the incoming dps on a Raven with 4 hardeners. It usually caps out before the shield goes down. If you suffer more damage per sec that an L/XL shield booster can heal, then you are already doing things wrong from the start. Learn how to manage aggro in L4 missions so that you can bite off each piece without choking on it. And finally, ditch the AB. Equip it as an optional fit for certain missions like "Duo of Death", "The Score" and their likes. Pottsey : Who let you out from the Skills forum? I cba to respond to inane posts. Troll as you will.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:02:00 - [28] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/09/2009 11:06:50 My post is neither inane nor trolling. Who let me out of the skills forum? Well I spend most of my time in this forum section so thats a very odd thing to say. The passive tank has an Afterburner and 4 damage mods. You're the one who's asking how that can match your active tank setup. "Same speed & damage output, really now?". Yes really. You can swap the AB for a target painter which with 4 damage mods is a match for you active tank setup if not faster. So whos post is trolling? Its certainly not mine. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Mystic5hadow My Skills are ****, needed them to make the Cap stable. This isn't at all necessary; mine caps out in a minute and a half ( alts cap skills aren't magic either ), and I carry mebbe 14 cap boosters; hardly ever use the booster, it's just there to save a warpout if there's a big wave. Cap stability is pointless if you're not taking enough incoming damage to overcome your natural regen.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Pottsey My post is neither inane nor trolling. Who let me out of the skills forum? Well I spend most of my time in this forum section so thats a very odd thing to say. The passive tank has an Afterburner and 4 damage mods. You're the one who's asking how that can match your active tank setup. "Same speed & damage output, really now?". Yes really. You can swap the AB for a target painter which with 4 damage mods is a match for you active tank setup if not faster. So whos post is trolling? Its certainly not mine. It's inane because : * Your post #22 shows a distinct lack of understanding and familiarity with shield boosters by asking whether it takes an hour to boost up 24000 shields. Answer, it takes a a Large Booster approximately 400sec (6 mins 40 sec) and a Hvy Cap Booster II have no trouble keeping up with the continous cap drain for this whole period. * Your post #26 1st paragraph goes off in a wild tangent taking the meaning of "speed" as a literal, forgetting the context that it was posted based on your original post #20. Answer, forget the 1st paragraph ever existed and let's get back on track. * Your post #26 2nd paragraph shows clearly, without any doubt that you don't understand how a L4 mission is effectively run. Answer, a cap boosted (3-4 hardeners) Raven will last the mission duration, relying on both the cap boosters and its natural cap regen. Darthewok's Darwin award winner has to run back to a station to recharge its buffer. Imagine doing this in a multi-pocketed mission. And again, for the last time, a Hvy Cap Booster II will have no trouble keeping up with the continous cap drain as it discharges at a rate of 59.3 cap/s (15 + 5, taking into account 3x reload time) * Your post #28, you're hoohahing over an AB slot optional fit that's only useful in a handful of situation ... no doubt a carry over from post #26 1st paragraph. Now, I will admit it was a small oversight (which I had meant to correct) but if it makes you happy, lets change that to 3x hardeners then. Now, does that change anything? Again, I would like to hear your words of wisdom for your claims, specifically pertaining to the underlined bits "both run missions at the same speed with the same damage output due to 4 damage mods. It doesn't matter which setup you take".

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