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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 15:41:00 -
[61]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 15:45:47
This game tends to attract a lot of aholes and people severely suffering from Schadenfreude. These people tend to be louder, more obnoxious, and more aggressive. The more they're ignored the more ****ed off they get. So they'll continue to up their ante as the population learns to deal with their annoyance. It's an insatiable need for attention.
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.24 15:51:00 -
[62]
Did it ever occur to you that the people war-dec'ng you might be another carebear corp that decided to grow some fangs? That decided to improve themselves in Eve instead of staring at rocks forever?
Disbanding your corp cuz of one wardec! Stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. Take the advice of some of the posters here and find a different aspect of Eve to enjoy.
11 whole people in all of empire that wanted to kill you. Hell, I probably got 11 people in my own Alliance that want to kill me.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:02:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 24/09/2009 16:03:36
 Originally by: Princess Jodi
Did it ever occur to you that the people war-dec'ng you might be another carebear corp that decided to grow some fangs? That decided to improve themselves in Eve instead of staring at rocks forever?
Bullying smaller corps where you don't even have sov or isk to gain from is hardly improving oneself.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:06:00 -
[64]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 15:45:47
It's an insatiable need for attention.
For once, Matrix discusses something he knows about.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:33:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Malcanis
EvE was always a population of gankers and pirates.
You know that term "survival of the fittest"? That means the ones that aren't fit dont survive.
If some corp fails because it can't handle a short wardec then it wasn't fit to survive.
Good corps -> pass the wardec test
Bad corps -> fail the wardec test
I'd like to travel back in time and beat Spencer about the head and neck for ever coining that idiot phrase. Even if your interpretation of the "survival of the fittest" was completely correct (and it's not) you would still be having the age old problem with is-ought. Just because some corp is driven to dissolution by harassment doesn't mean they ought to be. There is no reason to imagine that just because something happens "naturally" it is therefore the best result for the individuals involved, the rest of us or the game as a whole.
Some corps -> "pass" the "wardec test". (Considering the ineptitude of some empire serial wardec'ers I don't think the test is necessarily much of a test at all.)
Some corps -> "fail" the "test". Then some of their member leave the game (bad result), flee back to NPC corps which they will never leave again (bad result) or get swallowed up in the herd of a big established corp (reducing variety and reinforcing the oligarchic status quo, a bad result).
Originally by: Malcanis
Hope this helps.
Social Darwinism never helps.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:39:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Malcanis
Hope this helps.
Social Darwinism never helps.
It will certainly help you understand the social dynamics of EvE.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Social Darwinism never helps.
The Dodo also hated Darwinism.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:58:00 -
[68]
Darwinism?
If people want to act like animals, they belong among animals. Our modern society is based on the idea that we are different from animals because we know right from wrong, and respect things other than who can kill who.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
because we know right from wrong
We do?
Spent any time lately perusing your state or country's child abuse and neglect rate?
Ever watch a pair of geese with goslings? Amazing how they don't need laws, PSAs or parenting classes to raise their kids without breaking their bones or screaming at them daily how worthless they are?
You and I may also never agree on what is "right" and what is "wrong" so I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that as an entire species we've got that particular abstract concept entirely sorted out better than other species.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:06:00 -
[70]
You know what i meant.
People are expected to know right from wrong in order to be a part of civilization. If they show they don't, they are removed.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:15:00 -
[71]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 17:20:06
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 15:45:47
It's an insatiable need for attention.
For once, Matrix discusses something he knows about.
I'm sorry, have I touched you inappropriately before? 
Do you hate me because I use the very idiocy you use to beat you with?
Please don't. Think of me as just another idiot attention seeker cool dood, much like yourself, ridiculing others for lulz because it makes people like you giggle like little girls :D
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
If they show they don't, they are removed.
You mean that if they fail to adapt to the laws and mores of the society/community they inhabit they get selected out?
Do I know what you mean now?
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:27:00 -
[73]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 17:20:06
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 15:45:47
It's an insatiable need for attention.
For once, Matrix discusses something he knows about.
I'm sorry, have I touched you inappropriately before?
If that's the best you can do, you're losing your touch.
Keep swinging cupcake.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:28:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
You mean that if they fail to adapt to the laws and mores of the society/community they inhabit they get selected out?
Do I know what you mean now?
Yes, but do you also see how the way pirates live in lowsec or null, whoever can kill who or whatnot, can't be used as a justification for killing people when they leave that area?
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:29:00 -
[75]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 24/09/2009 17:35:50
Don't call me cupcake, buttercups.
See? I can be elite like you, pretend like I'm cool and be proud of it as well \o/
If I made up a story on how a carebear got upset and quit today would that give you reason to live another day of your life? Cuz, honestly, I would if it did. I'm not that ebil.
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Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:27:00 -
[76]
Here is a story:
I was mining gas in low sec. Had been sitting stationary for about half an hour pulling in gas and store it in a jet can. As the gas depletes I warp in mu alt in an Orca to collect the gas.
The moment the Orca arrives at the site a cov ops piloted by a player with low security status enters overview but quickly cloaks. I initiate warp on both my gas harvesting ship and Orca. A few seconds before the Orca has gained enough speed to initiate warp a second players with low security status enter the stage. With with my gas harvesting ship long gone, the cov ops decloak and both ships warp scramble and opens fire on the Orca and soon after... the Orca warps out completely unharmed. Warpcore stabilizers, hurray!
While gaining momentum for warp I had of course emptied the jet can for gas and left the site with what I wanted.
This is what EVE is all about.
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Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do nothing |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:28:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Social Darwinism never helps.
It will certainly help you understand the social dynamics of EvE.
Social Darwinism is an attempt at justifying letting such things happen but it's not actually an explanation of very much. It might illuminate the chest-thumping epeen-waving attitude of some Eve players, but that really doesn't help anything, we already know why they're like that.
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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:32:00 -
[78]
Did any of you ever think its just a game where people are trying to have fun instead of taking everything so seriously.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:40:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Social Darwinism never helps.
It will certainly help you understand the social dynamics of EvE.
Social Darwinism is an attempt at justifying letting such things happen but it's not actually an explanation of very much. It might illuminate the chest-thumping epeen-waving attitude of some Eve players, but that really doesn't help anything, we already know why they're like that.
Hit. Nail. Head.
"Darwinism" is just a scientific word used to justify the childish attitudes of people hiding behind the anonimity blanket that the internet provides.
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Tajwel Kura
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:51:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Tajwel Kura on 24/09/2009 18:56:37
Originally by: Malcanis
You know that term "survival of the fittest"? That means the ones that aren't fit dont survive.
If some corp fails because it can't handle a short wardec then it wasn't fit to survive.
Good corps -> pass the wardec test
Bad corps -> fail the wardec test
This.
About a year ago I was in a corp of 35 characters 90% of which had less than 3 million skill points. This corp was wardec'd by an alliance of 215 characters some of whom relocated all the way from 0.0 to come kill us newbies. During the dec not only did we not disband but even recruited a few more players and ended up having good efficiency on this alliance at the end of the war because we managed to kill some of their expensive T2 **** while they got overconfident.
Your CEO apparently was not fit to run a corp, so he should not have started one. Everything worked as intended and your corp got weeded out. Back then our corp's leadership pulled us through 4 wardecs.
Right now you have a choice. You can hide in an NPC corp for a year until you have XX amount of SP and XXX isk in your wallet or until you bore yourself out of this game or until you are ready to emerge and lose a bunch of Drakes because you think flying a heavily tanked battlecruiser is required for pvping. Or you can grab a merlin, a griffin, a blackbird, or caracal and go out, learn the game mechanics in cheap ships and have some fun meanwhile.
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m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:58:00 -
[81]
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 24/09/2009 18:58:09
I think the fact that a corp can fail to the point of not being able to play this game is great!
Its not our (forum readers) problem that you guys are bad. And the people who actually make a living off of wardeccing noob corps are usually pretty terrible themselves too.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 20:06:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Malcanis on 24/09/2009 20:08:12
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Social Darwinism never helps.
It will certainly help you understand the social dynamics of EvE.
Social Darwinism is an attempt at justifying letting such things happen but it's not actually an explanation of very much. It might illuminate the chest-thumping epeen-waving attitude of some Eve players, but that really doesn't help anything, we already know why they're like that.
OK you spout rhetoric, I'll deal with existence as it actually is. let's see who does better. Oh, hey: that would be me. Rematch? You lose again!
And the actual fact of the situation is that there are many, many corps who can survive a war-dec. It's not a demanding level of competence and resourcefulness.
As for chest thumping and e-peen waving... kind of like people who loudly purport to believe that all PvPers are socially inadequate, sexually-abused, bullied-at-school, failed-at-life, emotionally crippled, barely literate virgins?
because, you know, it's inconceivable that their Retriever was killed by an ordinary person who could hardly believe how careless they were  Only someone who has FAILED AT LIFE would do that.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Malcanis
OK you spout rhetoric, I'll deal with existence as it actually is. let's see who does better. Oh, hey: that would be me. Rematch? You lose again!
What does that even mean? By what measure are you "doing better"? And how do could you know that? Did you figure it out by staring intently at my forum-alt avatar or something? Did you consult an astrologer? And what difference would it make? "Doing better" doesn't mean magically mean you're always right about everything.
Originally by: Malcanis
And the actual fact of the situation is that there are many, many corps who can survive a war-dec. It's not a demanding level of competence and resourcefulness.
You seem to think all war decs and all instigating corps are equal. You must be new to Eve...
Originally by: Malcanis
As for chest thumping and e-peen waving... kind of like people who loudly purport to believe that all PvPers are socially inadequate, sexually-abused, bullied-at-school, failed-at-life, emotionally crippled, barely literate virgins?
Yes, to the extent that they are both sophomoric perspectives. I'm glad you see recognize the similarity, that's Step One.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:09:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Malcanis on 24/09/2009 21:09:39
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Malcanis
OK you spout rhetoric, I'll deal with existence as it actually is. let's see who does better. Oh, hey: that would be me. Rematch? You lose again!
What does that even mean?
Obviously sir, you are not a patron of the classics. You were an excellent studet; too bad I'm a lousy teacher.
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Sandor Krejaa
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:15:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Sandor Krejaa on 24/09/2009 21:16:15
I think perhaops I can phrase the intent behind the OPs question better, as I think he fell into a common trap of using too many cliches, and other hot button terminology.
The questions should be...as the Eve population shifted more towards the simulated criminal element of the game as opposed to the 'building' aspect of the game? Every society has its criminals, but can a society function at its current levels when the criminals begin to outnumber the law abiding? I think the latent fear the OP may be trying express is that Eve may be tipping towards anarchy, that instead of warring nations, we wind up with a game more like 'Somolia Online' comprised primarily of warlike opportunists, mercenaries, and warring clans.
Or another analogy would be what happend to Rome when the barbarians got the upper hand. Western civilization went backwards, and set the stage for the 'Dark Ages'.
Now..what to do about it? Well in Eve the only people who can do anythng about it are YOU..if Eve is overrun by virtual Huns and Visgoths, it is because you let them. You do have the power and the tools to counter them, to limit them, but you must be willing to take that power and use it instead of sitting back waiting for someone else to do it for you.
That perhaps is the greatest flaws of 'carebearism' good people, good players in the PvE sense,but who won't defend themselves, that refuse to be anything other than a victim, with the stubborn and unrealistic expectation that someone other then themselves should be responsible for defending them.
I hafta wonder if these are the same people who would sit there meekly if their home was invaded, watching as criminals did terrible things to their family rather than reach for a gun and use it if they could. Fact people..at that stage civilization broke down, and its either be the savage or be the victim, its that simple and you can bet your asailant has already made his choice.
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Jered Transer
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ard UnjiiGo
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
because we know right from wrong
We do?
Spent any time lately perusing your state or country's child abuse and neglect rate?
Ever watch a pair of geese with goslings? Amazing how they don't need laws, PSAs or parenting classes to raise their kids without breaking their bones or screaming at them daily how worthless they are?
You and I may also never agree on what is "right" and what is "wrong" so I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that as an entire species we've got that particular abstract concept entirely sorted out better than other species.
This man speaks the truth
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Darwinism?
If people want to act like animals, they belong among animals. Our modern society is based on the idea that we are different from animals because we know right from wrong, and respect things other than who can kill who.
Right and wrong have no bearing once you scale the application of 'morals' to populations the size of nations. And indeed, there is no greater rule than that of 'who can kill whom', whether it be economically, socially or through direct action (war). If you think this isn't so, go look out your window.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.09.24 22:03:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jered Transer
This man speaks the truth
Actually he doesn't. What he speaks is the truthiness. The truth is that not just "abuse" but outright infanticide (and ovicide) and even filial cannibalism (eating your own children) is quite common among animals. Since we're animals too we should not realistically expect anything different and yet we are the only animal that takes organized communal steps to stop such behaviours on ethical grounds.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2009.09.24 22:05:00 -
[89]
It isn't on the rise, random wardecs happen quite often, usually somone wanting to extort cash out of carebear corps or someone had a big mouth one day...The more your corp hangs out in heavily populated areas of highsec, the higher your chances of catching a random dec.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.24 22:10:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Malcanis
And the actual fact of the situation is that there are many, many corps who can survive a war-dec. It's not a demanding level of competence and resourcefulness.
You seem to think all war decs and all instigating corps are equal. You must be new to Eve...
You seem to think they ought to be. You must be new to life.
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