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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.24 12:53:00 -
[1]
Ok, let's assume the current Shiva dual-MWD removal goes through (either as-is or in some other form that makes fitting multiple MWDs on a ship impractical).
While I think the change is a justified one, it seems that it's hitting cruisers hardest. Frigates can get adaquate speed with just one MWD or an oversized AB (as long as they are allowed), and battleships, well, should not need to go fast in order to survive....but cruisers have always been the problematic category. Too slow to evade damage, too weak to take it. Some specialized cruisers, Blackbird especially, have seen heavy PvP use but usually a cruiser in PvP is a deathtrap unless it can move at near-frigate speeds. And now it can't.
Any ideas on how to make them more useful in general? Or should we just dismiss them from any PvP role and keep on using frigates (cheap, fast) and bs's (big guns and armor)?
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.24 12:53:00 -
[2]
Ok, let's assume the current Shiva dual-MWD removal goes through (either as-is or in some other form that makes fitting multiple MWDs on a ship impractical).
While I think the change is a justified one, it seems that it's hitting cruisers hardest. Frigates can get adaquate speed with just one MWD or an oversized AB (as long as they are allowed), and battleships, well, should not need to go fast in order to survive....but cruisers have always been the problematic category. Too slow to evade damage, too weak to take it. Some specialized cruisers, Blackbird especially, have seen heavy PvP use but usually a cruiser in PvP is a deathtrap unless it can move at near-frigate speeds. And now it can't.
Any ideas on how to make them more useful in general? Or should we just dismiss them from any PvP role and keep on using frigates (cheap, fast) and bs's (big guns and armor)?
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.24 14:37:00 -
[3]
only option i see it to make cruisers better is to increase their hp and increase their capacitor so they can tank.
a cruiser with 1600mm plate already show some capabilities to live a lot longer then a cruiser without.
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.24 14:37:00 -
[4]
only option i see it to make cruisers better is to increase their hp and increase their capacitor so they can tank.
a cruiser with 1600mm plate already show some capabilities to live a lot longer then a cruiser without.
"We brake for nobody"
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Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 16:30:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Any ideas on how to make them more useful in general?
* small weight reduction
* small shield/armour increase
* increase of battleship production time so it takes ~2 weeks to make one
Cruisers aren't bad on their own. They just don't stand a chance to battleships which is normal... and wouldn't be a problem if the battleships were rare ships like they were in real world. But when everyone and a month old newbie owns a battleship, it leaves cruisers without their standard role -- being the backbone of regular fleet... because this role is taken over by the abundant battleships.
Adjusting production time so one can produce dozen or more cruisers in time it takes to make one battleship, and dozen or more frigates in time it takes to make one cruiser might help to establish more natural fleet setups where cruisers do have their place.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 16:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Any ideas on how to make them more useful in general?
* small weight reduction
* small shield/armour increase
* increase of battleship production time so it takes ~2 weeks to make one
Cruisers aren't bad on their own. They just don't stand a chance to battleships which is normal... and wouldn't be a problem if the battleships were rare ships like they were in real world. But when everyone and a month old newbie owns a battleship, it leaves cruisers without their standard role -- being the backbone of regular fleet... because this role is taken over by the abundant battleships.
Adjusting production time so one can produce dozen or more cruisers in time it takes to make one battleship, and dozen or more frigates in time it takes to make one cruiser might help to establish more natural fleet setups where cruisers do have their place.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Caanan
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:19:00 -
[7]
production time would only make battleships more expensive, and they're already really expensive
this is really going to be a problem because the only purpose cruisers server now is
anti frig
anti cruiser
they cant do much more than kill frigs or kill other cruisers. Sure a bunch can kill a bs but if there is more than one bs they will die really fast.
IMO they really need a speed bonus. They get a max speed of around 200ms, which isn't much more than a BS, and when battlecruisers come in they will only be slighly slower. |
Caanan
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:19:00 -
[8]
production time would only make battleships more expensive, and they're already really expensive
this is really going to be a problem because the only purpose cruisers server now is
anti frig
anti cruiser
they cant do much more than kill frigs or kill other cruisers. Sure a bunch can kill a bs but if there is more than one bs they will die really fast.
IMO they really need a speed bonus. They get a max speed of around 200ms, which isn't much more than a BS, and when battlecruisers come in they will only be slighly slower. |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caanan
production time would only make battleships more expensive, and they're already really expensive
They aren't. Or rather, their price isn't factor that's stopping them from being so common.
Since the prices are player controlled to large degree, they cannot be used to control amount of battleships effectively.. which leaves the production time as possible factor to adjust.
Quote:
this is really going to be a problem because the only purpose cruisers server now is
anti frig
anti cruiser
they cant do much more than kill frigs or kill other cruisers. Sure a bunch can kill a bs but if there is more than one bs they will die really fast.
My point exactly. The cruisers are considered mostly useless because they "only" can kill frigates, cruisers and occasional rare battleship. Which doesn't match current fleet setups with battleships being at least every second ship in the fleet.
If the fleets were instead composed mostly of frigates, cruisers and occasional battleships for the extra punch, it'd make the cruisers fit right in as they could fight effectively most of the threats.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Caanan
production time would only make battleships more expensive, and they're already really expensive
They aren't. Or rather, their price isn't factor that's stopping them from being so common.
Since the prices are player controlled to large degree, they cannot be used to control amount of battleships effectively.. which leaves the production time as possible factor to adjust.
Quote:
this is really going to be a problem because the only purpose cruisers server now is
anti frig
anti cruiser
they cant do much more than kill frigs or kill other cruisers. Sure a bunch can kill a bs but if there is more than one bs they will die really fast.
My point exactly. The cruisers are considered mostly useless because they "only" can kill frigates, cruisers and occasional rare battleship. Which doesn't match current fleet setups with battleships being at least every second ship in the fleet.
If the fleets were instead composed mostly of frigates, cruisers and occasional battleships for the extra punch, it'd make the cruisers fit right in as they could fight effectively most of the threats.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:39:00 -
[11]
Ideas? Yep, don't fly them.
This is CCP's IDEA of enhancing combat diversity.
And Arvalen? Nice change, IF we were still in beta. We're not.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:39:00 -
[12]
Ideas? Yep, don't fly them.
This is CCP's IDEA of enhancing combat diversity.
And Arvalen? Nice change, IF we were still in beta. We're not.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:41:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 24/10/2004 17:48:38
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And Arvalen? Nice change, IF we were still in beta. We're not.
Since everything else gets adjusted/boosted/nerfed in the game on regular basis, "we're not in beta anymore" is moot point. You could say the same to any other change that's being introduced and it would mean just as little.
(no one complained when the production times for missiles were effectively shortened 10 times at certain point long since the release, for example...)
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.24 17:41:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 24/10/2004 17:48:38
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And Arvalen? Nice change, IF we were still in beta. We're not.
Since everything else gets adjusted/boosted/nerfed in the game on regular basis, "we're not in beta anymore" is moot point. You could say the same to any other change that's being introduced and it would mean just as little.
(no one complained when the production times for missiles were effectively shortened 10 times at certain point long since the release, for example...)
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.24 19:02:00 -
[15]
I never knew people used Dual MWDs on cruisers... 
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.10.24 19:02:00 -
[16]
I never knew people used Dual MWDs on cruisers...
................. |
slothe
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Posted - 2004.10.24 20:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cruz
I never knew people used Dual MWDs on cruisers...
yeah its really common now, a particular favourite tactic of DIE and others.
it still surprises me to see a cruiser coming at you about 4000 m/s
even better is dual mwd scorps and ravens
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
slothe
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Posted - 2004.10.24 20:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cruz
I never knew people used Dual MWDs on cruisers...
yeah its really common now, a particular favourite tactic of DIE and others.
it still surprises me to see a cruiser coming at you about 4000 m/s
even better is dual mwd scorps and ravens
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.10.24 20:38:00 -
[19]
Dual Mwd ships die fast when you hit them with 2 heavy nos's. Same for hitting frigs with 2 medium Nos's. Energy neutralizers would be better for this task if they didnt cost the same amount as they neutralized to use. Dual mic ravens are devastating though, and interestingly enough I can see that as being one of the proper roles for a raven.
I've come to the conclusion with the shiva ships coming in, and the mwd changes that they are going to need to implement mid class AB's and MWD's. BC's have too much PG to not do so, since they can easily fit a 100mn ab and 10mn mwd or 2 100mn ABs and still have heavy offensive power. Destroyers have nowhere near enough PG to run 10mn MWDs and get no use out of 1mn MWDs, since their mass is the same as a cruiser.
Then again it also comes down to the fact that they activated speed boost module system needs to be redone, right along with redoing how missiles work.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.10.24 20:38:00 -
[20]
Dual Mwd ships die fast when you hit them with 2 heavy nos's. Same for hitting frigs with 2 medium Nos's. Energy neutralizers would be better for this task if they didnt cost the same amount as they neutralized to use. Dual mic ravens are devastating though, and interestingly enough I can see that as being one of the proper roles for a raven.
I've come to the conclusion with the shiva ships coming in, and the mwd changes that they are going to need to implement mid class AB's and MWD's. BC's have too much PG to not do so, since they can easily fit a 100mn ab and 10mn mwd or 2 100mn ABs and still have heavy offensive power. Destroyers have nowhere near enough PG to run 10mn MWDs and get no use out of 1mn MWDs, since their mass is the same as a cruiser.
Then again it also comes down to the fact that they activated speed boost module system needs to be redone, right along with redoing how missiles work.
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:24:00 -
[21]
Changing production time won't really help much at this point as factory slots are cheap and plentiful. Producers will simply rent more of them and make production alts to take up the slack.
Cruisers do need some tweaking though. A bit more speed and cap couldn't hurt them.
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Daerkannon Shimmerscale
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:24:00 -
[22]
Changing production time won't really help much at this point as factory slots are cheap and plentiful. Producers will simply rent more of them and make production alts to take up the slack.
Cruisers do need some tweaking though. A bit more speed and cap couldn't hurt them.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:28:00 -
[23]
You're spinning your wheels, no-one's listening.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:28:00 -
[24]
You're spinning your wheels, no-one's listening.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:35:00 -
[25]
heh, the only cruisers that live atm, are either using 1600mm plates or two 100mn abs.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:35:00 -
[26]
heh, the only cruisers that live atm, are either using 1600mm plates or two 100mn abs.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:50:00 -
[27]
..and I'd question the lifetime of the ones using 1600mm.
Oh, don't forget EW BB's. Still fairly viable..
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.24 23:50:00 -
[28]
..and I'd question the lifetime of the ones using 1600mm.
Oh, don't forget EW BB's. Still fairly viable..
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Since everything else gets adjusted/boosted/nerfed in the game on regular basis, "we're not in beta anymore" is moot point.
Increasing production time by EIGHTY-FOUR times is not an adjustment. That's like calling Ground Zero at Hiroshima a "warm day".
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Since everything else gets adjusted/boosted/nerfed in the game on regular basis, "we're not in beta anymore" is moot point.
Increasing production time by EIGHTY-FOUR times is not an adjustment. That's like calling Ground Zero at Hiroshima a "warm day".
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Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Changing production time won't really help much at this point as factory slots are cheap and plentiful. Producers will simply rent more of them and make production alts to take up the slack.
I think it wouldn't really matter that much though, when in the end it still takes couple weeks to build single ship. While yes, you can get additional slots, the extra problems with logistics of moving all the minerals around, with locking significant amounts of resources for a long time before you see the finished ship, and finally with having to plan your actions weeks in advance just to stay ahead of regular losses... it'd make it more difficult for many corporations to keep their members in battleships during prolonged conflicts. In the end making the cruisers more appealing.
Some changes to game mechanics that'd limit number of ways people can currently use to avoid losing their (battle)ship, combined with the above... could help to make the lesser ships more popular, too. But that's another story. 
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Daerkannon Shimmerscale
Changing production time won't really help much at this point as factory slots are cheap and plentiful. Producers will simply rent more of them and make production alts to take up the slack.
I think it wouldn't really matter that much though, when in the end it still takes couple weeks to build single ship. While yes, you can get additional slots, the extra problems with logistics of moving all the minerals around, with locking significant amounts of resources for a long time before you see the finished ship, and finally with having to plan your actions weeks in advance just to stay ahead of regular losses... it'd make it more difficult for many corporations to keep their members in battleships during prolonged conflicts. In the end making the cruisers more appealing.
Some changes to game mechanics that'd limit number of ways people can currently use to avoid losing their (battle)ship, combined with the above... could help to make the lesser ships more popular, too. But that's another story.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Darkwolf
Increasing production time by EIGHTY-FOUR times is not an adjustment. That's like calling Ground Zero at Hiroshima a "warm day".
Yup, perhaps. But can we agree on the reasoning behind the change, if not the change itself? I mean, there can be other ways to achieve the desired effect, i just didn't think of them. Plus, is there any good argument against such change, other than "it's not beta anymore"?  That is, would such modification have some possible bad side-effect that i failed to see and which would outweight potential benefits?
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 00:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Darkwolf
Increasing production time by EIGHTY-FOUR times is not an adjustment. That's like calling Ground Zero at Hiroshima a "warm day".
Yup, perhaps. But can we agree on the reasoning behind the change, if not the change itself? I mean, there can be other ways to achieve the desired effect, i just didn't think of them. Plus, is there any good argument against such change, other than "it's not beta anymore"? That is, would such modification have some possible bad side-effect that i failed to see and which would outweight potential benefits?
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:12:00 -
[35]
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:12:00 -
[36]
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:19:00 -
[37]
you guys who r whining a bout the cruisers being useless without dual mwd's are retarted. let ccp do what they want with the dual mwd setup and dont play the game if you dont like it. cruisers have there roles as do intercepters, assault ships, heavy assault ships, frigates, haulers, battleships, logistics cruisers, covert ops frigs, and ******* shuttles. ccp is only trying to make it more of a role playing game not a one ship pwns all game. quit being little whiny *****s and addapt to win in this game!
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:19:00 -
[38]
you guys who r whining a bout the cruisers being useless without dual mwd's are retarted. let ccp do what they want with the dual mwd setup and dont play the game if you dont like it. cruisers have there roles as do intercepters, assault ships, heavy assault ships, frigates, haulers, battleships, logistics cruisers, covert ops frigs, and ******* shuttles. ccp is only trying to make it more of a role playing game not a one ship pwns all game. quit being little whiny *****s and addapt to win in this game!
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Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
Way to put yourself in position of authority while providing literally nothing to support your lack of point.
If you have rational arguments against suggested change, please show them. But save me the "I think i'm a vet and i think i speak for them all" spiel, it holds no weight.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
Way to put yourself in position of authority while providing literally nothing to support your lack of point.
If you have rational arguments against suggested change, please show them. But save me the "I think i'm a vet and i think i speak for them all" spiel, it holds no weight.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:28:00 -
[41]
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:28:00 -
[42]
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:36:00 -
[43]
I've seen Collective do extremely well in cruisers without the dual speed mod setups
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.10.25 01:36:00 -
[44]
I've seen Collective do extremely well in cruisers without the dual speed mod setups
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Buggeh
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Posted - 2004.10.25 03:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
Two words...
Skill Requirements
---
Dutch semi-carebear all-round character with lvl5 bad luck. |
Buggeh
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Posted - 2004.10.25 03:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
Two words...
Skill Requirements
---
Dutch semi-carebear all-round character with lvl5 bad luck. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 03:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Originally by: Maya Rkell
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
Way to put yourself in position of authority while providing literally nothing to support your lack of point.
If you have rational arguments against suggested change, please show them. But save me the "I think i'm a vet and i think i speak for them all" spiel, it holds no weight.
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
I don't "think" I'm a vet. I DO know, from previous discussions, that this particular suggested change is VERY unpopular.
I'm against ANY change which cannot be justified. I cannot see ANY justification at this stage for altering BS production times. The first likely effect would be to squeeze all non-major production corps out of factory slots.. (you WANT them to be like labslots?)
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 03:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Originally by: Maya Rkell
it's more if you can find any Eve vet who'd agree (outside the lunatic fringe) with it
Way to put yourself in position of authority while providing literally nothing to support your lack of point.
If you have rational arguments against suggested change, please show them. But save me the "I think i'm a vet and i think i speak for them all" spiel, it holds no weight.
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
I don't "think" I'm a vet. I DO know, from previous discussions, that this particular suggested change is VERY unpopular.
I'm against ANY change which cannot be justified. I cannot see ANY justification at this stage for altering BS production times. The first likely effect would be to squeeze all non-major production corps out of factory slots.. (you WANT them to be like labslots?)
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Directive
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Posted - 2004.10.25 05:55:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Buggeh
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
Two words...
Skill Requirements
Two words...
Tech Two
Now think about T2 battleships. Or T3 frigs (in the far far future).
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Directive
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Posted - 2004.10.25 05:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Buggeh
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
These babies are what we have wanted from cruisers all along. Firepower and strenght. OK they're not fixing the old cruisers wich really could have done with a little more sustainablity but its a good start. Once the price comes down a bit they'll rock. Any cruiser that can tank torp spammage from a raven and still take the ravens hardened shields down is a winner in my book.
A 1 vs 1 Assault cruiser battle seems to result in stalemates most times. :D
Two words...
Skill Requirements
Two words...
Tech Two
Now think about T2 battleships. Or T3 frigs (in the far far future).
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.25 09:26:00 -
[51]
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
Oh yes, I'm seriously looking forward to being able to fly a Deimos and an Ishtar. Still, the skill requirements are hefty and the price the same. Even if I had the skills, I'm not sure I'd want to take a 120m badly-insurable ship into PvP :).
But yeah, assault cruisers are nice. Maybe a small across-the-board boost to some tech1 cruiser stats (speed, grid, etc) would give them some more meaning? Dunno.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.25 09:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: EveJunkie
Two words...Assault Cruisers
Oh yes, I'm seriously looking forward to being able to fly a Deimos and an Ishtar. Still, the skill requirements are hefty and the price the same. Even if I had the skills, I'm not sure I'd want to take a 120m badly-insurable ship into PvP :).
But yeah, assault cruisers are nice. Maybe a small across-the-board boost to some tech1 cruiser stats (speed, grid, etc) would give them some more meaning? Dunno.
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Von Schnopp
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Posted - 2004.10.25 10:06:00 -
[53]
This isn't very complicated. Battleships are supposed to be those hard-to-obtain super ships that corps can afford but they're not. The reason anyone can aquire a BS within weeks is simply because they are too cheap or the requirements are to low.
This battleship-o-mania could be sorted easily would only CCP restrict the insane distribution of BPC among players. A blueprint is in essence a license that allows the BPO buyer to manufacture and sell his ships designed by the shipyard design bureau that sold that BPO. This concept gets tipped ass over head if every single BPO can be copied and sold by the thousands.
Consequences would be increased pricing but I'm sure we would get a development going the right way where frigates and cruisers would become more common in battles whereas the hugely expensive battleships would be reserved for the larger corporations as heavy support ships.
I know you'll all hate me for this but I'm confident this will promote PvP even more as fighting won't as expensive as more and more pilots will convert to cruisers and heavy frigates etc. It will also promote those who commit themselves to manufacturin as there'll actually be a profit in it and we'll see less market griefing.
*takes cover*
:)
"Dying for your corp is just stupid, make those other bastards die for theirs instead" |
Von Schnopp
|
Posted - 2004.10.25 10:06:00 -
[54]
This isn't very complicated. Battleships are supposed to be those hard-to-obtain super ships that corps can afford but they're not. The reason anyone can aquire a BS within weeks is simply because they are too cheap or the requirements are to low.
This battleship-o-mania could be sorted easily would only CCP restrict the insane distribution of BPC among players. A blueprint is in essence a license that allows the BPO buyer to manufacture and sell his ships designed by the shipyard design bureau that sold that BPO. This concept gets tipped ass over head if every single BPO can be copied and sold by the thousands.
Consequences would be increased pricing but I'm sure we would get a development going the right way where frigates and cruisers would become more common in battles whereas the hugely expensive battleships would be reserved for the larger corporations as heavy support ships.
I know you'll all hate me for this but I'm confident this will promote PvP even more as fighting won't as expensive as more and more pilots will convert to cruisers and heavy frigates etc. It will also promote those who commit themselves to manufacturin as there'll actually be a profit in it and we'll see less market griefing.
*takes cover*
:)
"Dying for your corp is just stupid, make those other bastards die for theirs instead" |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.25 11:24:00 -
[55]
tech2 ships should not be the solution to the cruiser problem. infact, tech2 is overpowered!!
ex. an interceptor which is designed to intercept does more dot then a frigate, cruiser and battleship. is that right for a ship whos job is to tackle?
if tech2 cruisers can tank a ravens firepower there is something wrong, no cruiser class should be able to take on a baltteship 1on1. but no battleship should be able to kill a cruiser class in secounds either.
"We brake for nobody"
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.10.25 11:24:00 -
[56]
tech2 ships should not be the solution to the cruiser problem. infact, tech2 is overpowered!!
ex. an interceptor which is designed to intercept does more dot then a frigate, cruiser and battleship. is that right for a ship whos job is to tackle?
if tech2 cruisers can tank a ravens firepower there is something wrong, no cruiser class should be able to take on a baltteship 1on1. but no battleship should be able to kill a cruiser class in secounds either.
"We brake for nobody"
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.10.25 12:05:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Altai Saker
heh, the only cruisers that live atm, are either using 1600mm plates or two 100mn abs.
False.
And jumping in to scout a fleet of 40+ that's all hostiles and sitting at gate with a lot of inties and blackbirds doesn't count... Yes, I was arrogant and a little stupid ;)
Thoraxes that try to use a 1600mm plate setup against me I expect to live no more than 30 seconds, compared to 15 seconds of most other cruisers. Last I combated, the other Thorax forgot to use the armour repairer, but did not forget to shoot at me. Cruiser sized blasters simply outrange frigate sized, and I took only shield damage.
Personally, I think that the way to go to fix cruisers is not to make them tanks, it's to make them do more damage.
Or possibly, the problem lies within that not all weapons were made worse against smaller targets when most of the others were... That means "rebalance missiles for better speed but worse targeting" or something like it.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2004.10.25 12:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Altai Saker
heh, the only cruisers that live atm, are either using 1600mm plates or two 100mn abs.
False.
And jumping in to scout a fleet of 40+ that's all hostiles and sitting at gate with a lot of inties and blackbirds doesn't count... Yes, I was arrogant and a little stupid ;)
Thoraxes that try to use a 1600mm plate setup against me I expect to live no more than 30 seconds, compared to 15 seconds of most other cruisers. Last I combated, the other Thorax forgot to use the armour repairer, but did not forget to shoot at me. Cruiser sized blasters simply outrange frigate sized, and I took only shield damage.
Personally, I think that the way to go to fix cruisers is not to make them tanks, it's to make them do more damage.
Or possibly, the problem lies within that not all weapons were made worse against smaller targets when most of the others were... That means "rebalance missiles for better speed but worse targeting" or something like it.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 12:23:00 -
[59]
Fix BS guns so they actually have trouble hitting cruisers which move away from their optimal. Like, er, well before they started fiddling.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.10.25 12:23:00 -
[60]
Fix BS guns so they actually have trouble hitting cruisers which move away from their optimal. Like, er, well before they started fiddling.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.25 12:52:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Fix BS guns so they actually have trouble hitting cruisers which move away from their optimal. Like, er, well before they started fiddling.
Also, boost medium guns a bit. At the moment, they mostly suck compared to their small variants in all other aspects except range, leading to the situation where small blasters on a cruiser perform as well or better than medium blasters, *even* taking into account possible cruiser damage bonuses (the better rof and tracking of small guns balances out other aspects surprisingly much). It does not need to be a huge boost, but med guns need a big of love.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2004.10.25 12:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Fix BS guns so they actually have trouble hitting cruisers which move away from their optimal. Like, er, well before they started fiddling.
Also, boost medium guns a bit. At the moment, they mostly suck compared to their small variants in all other aspects except range, leading to the situation where small blasters on a cruiser perform as well or better than medium blasters, *even* taking into account possible cruiser damage bonuses (the better rof and tracking of small guns balances out other aspects surprisingly much). It does not need to be a huge boost, but med guns need a big of love.
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Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 14:23:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
Heh, i misread your post then. When you said no one would agree with the idea, i thought you're referring to concept behind the time production change, i.e. restoring more balanced fleet setups where cruisers have a natural role.
Like i said, change of production time is one possible way to achieve this, but if someone can think of different way for it then it's fine with me.
Quote:
I don't "think" I'm a vet. I DO know, from previous discussions, that this particular suggested change is VERY unpopular.
And _why_ exactly is it very unpopular? Perhaps because the end effect would be just what it's intended to achieve, taking large amount of people out of their precious battleships?
I mean, sure, there can be other reasons for lack of support, i wouldn't know. But lack of popularity itself isn't exactly most valid way to determine if something is going to be good for the game. At some point, the idea to remove unlimited blueprint copies was also VERY unpopular. Is the game worse after it's introduced? Hardly.
Quote:
I'm against ANY change which cannot be justified. I cannot see ANY justification at this stage for altering BS production times.
Battleships being far too common that they should be, and in consequence destruction of cruiser role in the game isn't in your opinion a good indicator the parameters determining how many battleships can enter the game were set wrong? o.O
Quote:
The first likely effect would be to squeeze all non-major production corps out of factory slots.. (you WANT them to be like labslots?)
It'd be interesting if it actually happened... as it'd mean the end of "I need few k of ammo so i'll make it with my production alt rather than buy on market" gameplay. I don't think a situation where producers have real market for their goods is a bad thing. (but then i doubt the change would have that kind of impact due to all problems that come with mass-production of battleships with extended production time)
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
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Posted - 2004.10.25 14:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
Heh, i misread your post then. When you said no one would agree with the idea, i thought you're referring to concept behind the time production change, i.e. restoring more balanced fleet setups where cruisers have a natural role.
Like i said, change of production time is one possible way to achieve this, but if someone can think of different way for it then it's fine with me.
Quote:
I don't "think" I'm a vet. I DO know, from previous discussions, that this particular suggested change is VERY unpopular.
And _why_ exactly is it very unpopular? Perhaps because the end effect would be just what it's intended to achieve, taking large amount of people out of their precious battleships?
I mean, sure, there can be other reasons for lack of support, i wouldn't know. But lack of popularity itself isn't exactly most valid way to determine if something is going to be good for the game. At some point, the idea to remove unlimited blueprint copies was also VERY unpopular. Is the game worse after it's introduced? Hardly.
Quote:
I'm against ANY change which cannot be justified. I cannot see ANY justification at this stage for altering BS production times.
Battleships being far too common that they should be, and in consequence destruction of cruiser role in the game isn't in your opinion a good indicator the parameters determining how many battleships can enter the game were set wrong? o.O
Quote:
The first likely effect would be to squeeze all non-major production corps out of factory slots.. (you WANT them to be like labslots?)
It'd be interesting if it actually happened... as it'd mean the end of "I need few k of ammo so i'll make it with my production alt rather than buy on market" gameplay. I don't think a situation where producers have real market for their goods is a bad thing. (but then i doubt the change would have that kind of impact due to all problems that come with mass-production of battleships with extended production time)
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2004.10.25 14:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
I do, but I'm not a vet  . I also think cruisers are a viable option for a small empire corporation who don't wish to mine their brains out for battleships. Cruisers can be just as effective in large groups, in my opinion(I see plenty of pirate corporations using them).
Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
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Kaleigh Doyle
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Posted - 2004.10.25 14:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Okay. Anyone else here support this? (*many BS production speed) Anyone?
I do, but I'm not a vet . I also think cruisers are a viable option for a small empire corporation who don't wish to mine their brains out for battleships. Cruisers can be just as effective in large groups, in my opinion(I see plenty of pirate corporations using them).
Glamour Bunnies Entertainment Corporation
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.10.25 19:07:00 -
[67]
the problem is that cruiser can NOT effectivly dodge large turrets even with a 10mn AB. So yes cruisers are way to slow with 10mn AB while on the other hand 100mn AB make them overpowered and take away the role of an assault frig.
The average cruiser should go about 500 m/s WITH ONE 10mn AB online!
however a stacking penalty or adding the values instead of multipling them is needed in this case... and even more a missile change is needed since currently there is no difference if you move 10 m/s or 500 m/s in your cruiser.
even more the large pulse laseres are slightly overpowered.... too high range combined with very good tracking... nerf it slightly!
so the most needed changes that are needed to beef up cruisers:
about 500m/s speed with ONE 10mn AB
missile dmg according to current speed of the target involving sig radius of course!
so to get eg. a moa up to 500 m/s with ONE 10mn AB we need the following:
current mass of the moa: 13 000 000 kg
speed with lv 4 nav: 192 m/s
"new" 10mn AB: +150% speed boost (with lv accel control = 180%)
moa (lv 4 skills)
192 / 100 * 180 = 345,6
345,6 / 13 000 000 * 10 000 000 = 265,85
268,85 + 192 = 457,85 m/s
stabber (lv 4 skills)
309,6 / 100 * 180 = 557,28
557,28 / 10 000 000 * 10 000 000 = 557,28
557,28 + 309,6 = 866,88 m/s
so to make the mwd less appealing... change the penalty of the mwd... instead of 500 % sig penalty give it something like -500 % agility or +500 % mass... you should NOT be able to keep a close orbit with a mwd imho!!!
These changes combined with a missile change will truly make this game 1337.
so dont nerf dual mwds but nerf the mwd itself as intended some time back...
and of course nerf oversized AB's after the missile change and the "normal sized" AB boost!!!!
I heard that the mwd was intended not to be able to turn in a tight angle... but somehow it failed...
again this is what I suggest for the mwd:
take away the sig penalty
give them an agility nerf (eg. -500 % agility or +500% mass)
but leave dual mwds possible
now all you thorax and mega pilots will hate me
click.. cl. click... click .... "you can not activate your flame shield because it is already active" 
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.10.25 19:07:00 -
[68]
the problem is that cruiser can NOT effectivly dodge large turrets even with a 10mn AB. So yes cruisers are way to slow with 10mn AB while on the other hand 100mn AB make them overpowered and take away the role of an assault frig.
The average cruiser should go about 500 m/s WITH ONE 10mn AB online!
however a stacking penalty or adding the values instead of multipling them is needed in this case... and even more a missile change is needed since currently there is no difference if you move 10 m/s or 500 m/s in your cruiser.
even more the large pulse laseres are slightly overpowered.... too high range combined with very good tracking... nerf it slightly!
so the most needed changes that are needed to beef up cruisers:
about 500m/s speed with ONE 10mn AB
missile dmg according to current speed of the target involving sig radius of course!
so to get eg. a moa up to 500 m/s with ONE 10mn AB we need the following:
current mass of the moa: 13 000 000 kg
speed with lv 4 nav: 192 m/s
"new" 10mn AB: +150% speed boost (with lv accel control = 180%)
moa (lv 4 skills)
192 / 100 * 180 = 345,6
345,6 / 13 000 000 * 10 000 000 = 265,85
268,85 + 192 = 457,85 m/s
stabber (lv 4 skills)
309,6 / 100 * 180 = 557,28
557,28 / 10 000 000 * 10 000 000 = 557,28
557,28 + 309,6 = 866,88 m/s
so to make the mwd less appealing... change the penalty of the mwd... instead of 500 % sig penalty give it something like -500 % agility or +500 % mass... you should NOT be able to keep a close orbit with a mwd imho!!!
These changes combined with a missile change will truly make this game 1337.
so dont nerf dual mwds but nerf the mwd itself as intended some time back...
and of course nerf oversized AB's after the missile change and the "normal sized" AB boost!!!!
I heard that the mwd was intended not to be able to turn in a tight angle... but somehow it failed...
again this is what I suggest for the mwd:
take away the sig penalty
give them an agility nerf (eg. -500 % agility or +500% mass)
but leave dual mwds possible
now all you thorax and mega pilots will hate me
click.. cl. click... click .... "you can not activate your flame shield because it is already active"
Greetings Grim |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.10.25 23:37:00 -
[69]
lasers are VERY easy to tank. If anything I'd increase (worsen) the pulse RoF slightly...far easier to quantify the change...
I'd perhaps use +100% for base AB values, myself, but principle's okay.
And missile damage should have nothing to do with bleeding sig radius! (makes inties too uber..)
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.10.25 23:37:00 -
[70]
lasers are VERY easy to tank. If anything I'd increase (worsen) the pulse RoF slightly...far easier to quantify the change...
I'd perhaps use +100% for base AB values, myself, but principle's okay.
And missile damage should have nothing to do with bleeding sig radius! (makes inties too uber..)
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:01:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And missile damage should have nothing to do with bleeding sig radius! (makes inties too uber..)
Instead we have uber Ravens 
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And missile damage should have nothing to do with bleeding sig radius! (makes inties too uber..)
Instead we have uber Ravens
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:05:00 -
[73]
I agree that BS's are way to commen and cheap, i cannot remember what the NPC prices were in the old days but it was way more than 110 mill for an Apoc.
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Raising the production time might be part of the solution but not a solution on its own.
Just my 2 isk
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:05:00 -
[74]
I agree that BS's are way to commen and cheap, i cannot remember what the NPC prices were in the old days but it was way more than 110 mill for an Apoc.
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Raising the production time might be part of the solution but not a solution on its own.
Just my 2 isk
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Arvalen Eno
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 26/10/2004 01:00:20
Originally by: Brunis
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Hmm i thought that's a good point (it was my impression the assult frigates are indeed getting pretty common) but then i took a quick peek at the RKK killboard, since they make it easy to check ship kills by type and whatnot. Turns out all involved sides lose:
~100 battleships per two weeks.
~15 assault frigates per two weeks.
(that's just October data)
the number of assault frig kills appears to actually go down as the time goes. I think the difference in numbers and the trend might indicate that the production process and/or production time of the assault frigates and/or resulting ship price do affect how popular they are.
Of course, it can also be indication of something completely different.
edit: and aye, i don't think just altering production times alone would fix everything. It's possible part of the solution... i also suggested small changes to cruiser themselves so they can get better benefit from MWD/AFB and survive longer. Perhaps more than that would have to be done in the end but well, one has to start somewhere. 
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
Arvalen Eno
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 00:55:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 26/10/2004 01:00:20
Originally by: Brunis
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Hmm i thought that's a good point (it was my impression the assult frigates are indeed getting pretty common) but then i took a quick peek at the RKK killboard, since they make it easy to check ship kills by type and whatnot. Turns out all involved sides lose:
~100 battleships per two weeks.
~15 assault frigates per two weeks.
(that's just October data)
the number of assault frig kills appears to actually go down as the time goes. I think the difference in numbers and the trend might indicate that the production process and/or production time of the assault frigates and/or resulting ship price do affect how popular they are.
Of course, it can also be indication of something completely different.
edit: and aye, i don't think just altering production times alone would fix everything. It's possible part of the solution... i also suggested small changes to cruiser themselves so they can get better benefit from MWD/AFB and survive longer. Perhaps more than that would have to be done in the end but well, one has to start somewhere.
"Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs." |
John Blackthorn
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 03:54:00 -
[77]
I don't like the fact that mwd's have a shild penalty because using it on a caldari ship for instance which is ment to shild tank hurts it a lot greater than an Amar ship that has small shields but lots of armor.
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John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2004.10.26 03:54:00 -
[78]
I don't like the fact that mwd's have a shild penalty because using it on a caldari ship for instance which is ment to shild tank hurts it a lot greater than an Amar ship that has small shields but lots of armor.
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Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 04:53:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 26/10/2004 01:00:20
Originally by: Brunis
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Hmm i thought that's a good point (it was my impression the assult frigates are indeed getting pretty common) but then i took a quick peek at the RKK killboard, since they make it easy to check ship kills by type and whatnot. Turns out all involved sides lose:
~100 battleships per two weeks.
~15 assault frigates per two weeks.
(that's just October data)
the number of assault frig kills appears to actually go down as the time goes. I think the difference in numbers and the trend might indicate that the production process and/or production time of the assault frigates and/or resulting ship price do affect how popular they are.
Of course, it can also be indication of something completely different.
edit: and aye, i don't think just altering production times alone would fix everything. It's possible part of the solution... i also suggested small changes to cruiser themselves so they can get better benefit from MWD/AFB and survive longer. Perhaps more than that would have to be done in the end but well, one has to start somewhere.
Maybe people just found out that they suck at combat, only thing they are good at are killing other frigate sized ships hehe.
Its no problem at all getting a assault frigate today if you want one, though the price is high atm. it will go way down in Shiva when we can build our own tech2 building stuff.
Maybe a combination of longer build time, make megacyte more rare (Zydrine have beeen worth more at a point ) by removing it from some roids and making the amount smaller in others, other ore can also be looked at and maybe some other things.
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
Brunis
|
Posted - 2004.10.26 04:53:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Arvalen Eno
Edited by: Arvalen Eno on 26/10/2004 01:00:20
Originally by: Brunis
I also agree something should be done but i don't agree on making it so it takes longer to make.
Assault frigates and cruisers take a long time to make yet the frigate version is already commen and the cruiser version is on its way to be (even faster than th frigate version for some reason).
Hmm i thought that's a good point (it was my impression the assult frigates are indeed getting pretty common) but then i took a quick peek at the RKK killboard, since they make it easy to check ship kills by type and whatnot. Turns out all involved sides lose:
~100 battleships per two weeks.
~15 assault frigates per two weeks.
(that's just October data)
the number of assault frig kills appears to actually go down as the time goes. I think the difference in numbers and the trend might indicate that the production process and/or production time of the assault frigates and/or resulting ship price do affect how popular they are.
Of course, it can also be indication of something completely different.
edit: and aye, i don't think just altering production times alone would fix everything. It's possible part of the solution... i also suggested small changes to cruiser themselves so they can get better benefit from MWD/AFB and survive longer. Perhaps more than that would have to be done in the end but well, one has to start somewhere.
Maybe people just found out that they suck at combat, only thing they are good at are killing other frigate sized ships hehe.
Its no problem at all getting a assault frigate today if you want one, though the price is high atm. it will go way down in Shiva when we can build our own tech2 building stuff.
Maybe a combination of longer build time, make megacyte more rare (Zydrine have beeen worth more at a point ) by removing it from some roids and making the amount smaller in others, other ore can also be looked at and maybe some other things.
/Brunis
Another dog lifting its leg |
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