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Morris Kane	Posted - 2009.09.27 13:55:00 - [1] I strongly feel that mission gates should be locked to non fleet members. I feel it is wrong for non fleet members to be able to gain access to the "instance" you are currently doing. New players especially don't need the unpleasant experience of loot stealers and salvagers coming in and stealing the profit from their hard earned work. Add teh potential of getting killed when they accidentally shoot the hostile player.. it makes for a very bad and upsetting game play experience. After the mission is complete.. by all means open the space so that profiteers can come and loot and salvage if the player that did the instance don;t feel to do so.. care bears should be allowed to care bear and not fall victim to pirates in any form. easy solution.. lock jump gates to non fleet members of the mission runner. Sincerely Morris Kane
z0de Gallente The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.09.27 14:00:00 - [2] Originally by: Morris Kane "instance" lol á á
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.27 14:12:00 - [3] i strongly feel you should live with it and get out of the mission hubs that are full of ninjas also i strongly feel you should learn that salvage doesn't belong to you and if they steal loot it gives you the choice to shoot back
Vaden Khale Amarr Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.27 14:21:00 - [4] Blizzard called. They want their whining 12 year old back. Here's some money for the bus. Don't sit next to the smelly homeless man. Signature Locked. Please refrain from amending a moderated warning. Zymurgist
Ancy Denaries Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound	Posted - 2009.09.27 15:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Vaden Khale Blizzard called. They want their whining 12 year old back. Here's some money for the bus. Don't sit next to the smelly homeless man. That's pretty much it, hombre. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die.
Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.27 15:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Morris Kane "instance" Stop now.
RedSplat	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:02:00 - [7] Whats that Lassie? OP is a Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Tau Dades Caldari Even End of the Universe	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:03:00 - [8] Originally by: z0de Originally by: Morris Kane "instance" lol
Ashley Thomas Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:27:00 - [9] I think everyone else summed it up nicely. Veritatum Cognoscere
Dr Karsun Gallente Husarian Loyalists	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:27:00 - [10] Nah, not really a good idea, the missions would then become hiding places for fleets behind enemy lines...
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:55:00 - [11] Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS i strongly feel you should live with it and get out of the mission hubs that are full of ninjas also i strongly feel you should learn that salvage doesn't belong to you and if they steal loot it gives you the choice to shoot back Problem is PVE fit != PVP fit. This is just a variation of can flipping/suicide ganking and people go in looking for fights. The problem isn't that mission goers aren't willing to fight sometimes, but they don't want to make a mistake and insta-lose their PVE (expensive) ship to Concord. If anything, there needs to be an option for open aggression for mission runners in deadspace. If someone warps in from a jump gate, and they aren't part of my mission, I want the option to wtf-blow them out of the sky as soon as they show up without Concord insta-spanking me.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.27 16:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Tau Dades Originally by: z0de Originally by: Morris Kane "instance" lol ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.27 17:30:00 - [13] Originally by: MachineGunDave Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS i strongly feel you should live with it and get out of the mission hubs that are full of ninjas also i strongly feel you should learn that salvage doesn't belong to you and if they steal loot it gives you the choice to shoot back Problem is PVE fit != PVP fit. This is just a variation of can flipping/suicide ganking and people go in looking for fights. The problem isn't that mission goers aren't willing to fight sometimes, but they don't want to make a mistake and insta-lose their PVE (expensive) ship to Concord. If anything, there needs to be an option for open aggression for mission runners in deadspace. If someone warps in from a jump gate, and they aren't part of my mission, I want the option to wtf-blow them out of the sky as soon as they show up without Concord insta-spanking me. concord wont attack you if they steal your loot they will be flagged to you allowing you to attack them without concord interfering what happens then is upto fate but if there coming in and salvaging wrecks that are floating in space they are doing nothing wrong those wrecks have no owners they are junk as CCP has stated many times over if you are unwilling to accept this part of the game well thats your own problem ps. risk vs reward think about it for a while and come back when you have
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 17:35:00 - [14] Quote: Problem is PVE fit != PVP fit. This is just a variation of can flipping/suicide ganking and people go in looking for fights. The problem isn't that mission goers aren't willing to fight sometimes, but they don't want to make a mistake and insta-lose their PVE (expensive) ship to Concord. If anything, there needs to be an option for open aggression for mission runners in deadspace. If someone warps in from a jump gate, and they aren't part of my mission, I want the option to wtf-blow them out of the sky as soon as they show up without Concord insta-spanking me. So what you're saying is that you want to be able to blow away innocent people for no reason other than being there? Go to lowsec/0.0 with the rest of the gankers.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 18:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: So what you're saying is that you want to be able to blow away innocent people for no reason other than being there? Go to lowsec/0.0 with the rest of the gankers. Can flippers/suicide gankers already do this. So yes there should be a game mechanic that you are allowed to wtf-blow away people without Concord interference if you are inside a deadspace mission. You shouldn't have to wait for someone to flip a can/loot a wreck/cargo pod. If you honestly want to "innocently" salvage you should parlay with the person running the mission and work something out. This is like the wild west and the law should understand that you don't need to wait for gankforce to show up and trickle in to deadspace and blow you up/grief you at their leisure. A simple message when you go to activate a jump gate that "You are about to enter deadspace where XXX has assigned XXX to an important mission. Concord protection does not apply to you here." should give ample warning to innocent salvager. Why should a mission runner have to wait for a player to grab a mission drop/turn-in item before they can open fire? Currently game-play mechanics give ninja salvager's total advantage over the mission runner. They dictate all the terms, leaving a smart mission runner with few real options, either blow up all the wrecks/cargo pods or immediately leave. Hell I'd even be happy to leave it the way it was if they simply could not loot items required to finish the mission. The ability to force someone to fail a mission should be left out of high-sec. Honestly that's my major beef with people showing up my missions.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 18:10:00 - [16] Quote: Can flippers/suicide gankers already do this. So yes there should be a game mechanic that you are allowed to wtf-blow away people without Concord interference if you are inside a deadspace mission. You shouldn't have to wait for someone to flip a can/loot a wreck/cargo pod. If you honestly want to "innocently" salvage you should parlay with the person running the mission and work something out. no. They don't. Canflippers work off of jetcan mining, or dropping junk in a can. Remember jetcan mining was an EXPLOIT. It only still exists today because the aggression mechanic provides an interesting counter (or risk) for the added reward. Suicide gankers do not, either. They get punished by CONCORD, just like a missionrunner who opens fire on a ninjasalvager does. Why should the ninjasalvager ask? It's not your salvage. Quote: This is like the wild west and the law should understand that you don't need to wait for gankforce to show up and trickle in to deadspace and blow you up/grief you at their leisure. A simple message when you go to activate a jump gate that "You are about to enter deadspace where XXX has assigned XXX to an important mission. Concord protection does not apply to you here." should give ample warning to innocent salvager. Why should the salvager need a warning? he's a salvager. He has done nothing belligerent or illegal. Quote: Why should a mission runner have to wait for a player to grab a mission drop/turn-in item before they can open fire? Because until that point, the salvager has done nothing illegal. Quote: Currently game-play mechanics give ninja salvager's total advantage over the mission runner. They dictate all the terms, leaving a smart mission runner with few real options, either blow up all the wrecks/cargo pods or immediately leave. I don't see a problem with this given that the salvage IS NOT YOURS. If you would like to compete with the ninjasalvager, show up with a dedicated salvage ship. Quote: Hell I'd even be happy to leave it the way it was if they simply could not loot items required to finish the mission. The ability to force someone to fail a mission should be left out of high-sec. Honestly that's my major beef with people showing up my missions. TBH I actually agree that it's not a great mechanic. However, given that hisec missions are stupidly profitable and in need of a huge nerf, I don't exactly feel bad about doing it. Think of it as a downside to your risk-free ISK printing machine.
Sister Megarea Sisters of Agony	Posted - 2009.09.27 18:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Morris Kane I strongly feel that mission gates should be locked to non fleet members. I feel it is wrong for non fleet members to be able to gain access to the "instance" you are currently doing. [snip] easy solution.. lock jump gates to non fleet members of the mission runner. That makes no sense. You don't show up to the gates with keys in your pocket, so how would you lock them in the first place ? (And there are gates/missions in the game where you do need keys) As others have said, if you're getting ninja salvaged so often, you're spending too much time in Caldari mission hubs. It's a big galaxy - move around a bit. Heck, do search in these forums for "ninja salvager" and you'll see just how many newbs whine about this solely because they don't understand the game. I've been playing since December of '08, I'm a carebear, solo L4's as a matter of course and I've seen exactly 3 ninja salvagers in 10 months.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 18:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Hell I'd even be happy to leave it the way it was if they simply could not loot items required to finish the mission. The ability to force someone to fail a mission should be left out of high-sec. Honestly that's my major beef with people showing up my missions. TBH I actually agree that it's not a great mechanic. However, given that hisec missions are stupidly profitable and in need of a huge nerf, I don't exactly feel bad about doing it. Think of it as a downside to your risk-free ISK printing machine. So where is the Ninja Salvagers risk? That they get blown up and collect the insurance pay out? Why steal the mission required items? If I'm running a mission for the Caldari Navy, shouldn't they be interested? In a true sand box, they'd be giving someone else a mission to now blow you up. In the real world, if you look at maritime salvage there are real legal ramifications if you violate someones salvage rights. Who should get the salvage rights, how long to salvage, etc. As far as the mission item, once it is looted the player can not go back to his agent and explain that someone else took it. Even if you blow that person up (Which is what that person may want, Yay! they can come back and kill you with my <insert larger/better ship> and blow away the PVE ship, evil mission'doer and loot his wreck) the mission item may get destroyed (i thinks?) and the mission agent won't buy the excuse that it got blown up or that some scurvy pirate dog ate it. Game mechanics mean that agents have no understanding that the mission shouldn't be failed, that it should be nulled, that mission objectives can not be completed due to improper game mechanics. There should be no reason for a standing hit in these cases. This clearly is wrong in every way for the mission runner and should be obvious to everyone. The game mechanics here are totally lame and should be addressed by the game developer in some way. The ninja crowd seem to be crying foul that there is no risk for the mission runner, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of real risk on their side either. Certainly in most cases less risk then the mission runner than for the ninja salvager and in most cases they eagerly accept the risk and embrace the consequences. My opinion is that interference should result in catastrophic standing hits for players who grab the mission items and they should quickly find themselves unwelcome in state space if they **** off the wrong people. Game mechanics make it too easy to be a detriment to powerful political factions in the game with little to no real detrimental ramifications.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 19:09:00 - [19] Quote: So where is the Ninja Salvagers risk? That they get blown up and collect the insurance pay out? Why steal the mission required items? If I'm running a mission for the Caldari Navy, shouldn't they be interested? In a true sand box, they'd be giving someone else a mission to now blow you up. Because stealing the mission item allows us to make a few mil in addition to the loot/salvage via contracts. And really it would depend on the mission item. If you want to implement something like that, then you'd also have to implement a system for the ninja to turn in the mission item for the full reward Quote: In the real world, if you look at maritime salvage there are real legal ramifications if you violate someones salvage rights. Who should get the salvage rights, how long to salvage, etc. yes. IT just so happens that salvage rights in EVE don't exist. Given that it adds a new dimension to the game and -very slightly- trims down missionrunners' already bloated income, not to mention encouraging people to spread out, there's no reason to remove it. Quote: As far as the mission item, once it is looted the player can not go back to his agent and explain that someone else took it. Even if you blow that person up (Which is what that person may want, Yay! they can come back and kill you with my <insert larger/better ship> and blow away the PVE ship, evil mission'doer and loot his wreck) the mission item may get destroyed (i thinks?) and the mission agent won't buy the excuse that it got blown up or that some scurvy pirate dog ate it. Run missions in lowsec. Or, kill ninja + grab loot and dock up before he comes back. Or, mission outside the major hubs. Or, just decline missions that require an objective to be completed. Quote: Game mechanics mean that agents have no understanding that the mission shouldn't be failed, that it should be nulled, that mission objectives can not be completed due to improper game mechanics. There should be no reason for a standing hit in these cases. This clearly is wrong in every way for the mission runner and should be obvious to everyone. The game mechanics here are totally lame and should be addressed by the game developer in some way. There's also no reason for missions to be as insanely profitable as they are now. I'd agree with such a change, but only when missions get put in line with other hisec professions. Quote: The ninja crowd seem to be crying foul that there is no risk for the mission runner, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of real risk on their side either. Certainly in most cases less risk then the mission runner than for the ninja salvager and in most cases they eagerly accept the risk and embrace the consequences. Ninjasalvagers ever denied the lack of risk. We, however, aren't demanding your profession be removed from the game. Personally I believe that balancing hisec missions would remove ninjasalvaging as a very profitable endeavor, and I'm fine with that.
Twelve Jackals Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.09.27 19:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Morris Kane I feel it is wrong for non fleet members to be able to gain access to the "instance" you are currently doing. That's easy. They aren't instances, so everyone can get access. Now GTFO
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 19:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Kahega Amielden yes. IT just so happens that salvage rights in EVE don't exist. Given that it adds a new dimension to the game and -very slightly- trims down missionrunners' already bloated income, not to mention encouraging people to spread out, there's no reason to remove it. Why don't they, and give a valid argument why they shouldn't exist in High Security systems or in State sovereign space. If its a criminal act to loot a wreck, then why is it not one to go into the wreck and find "hidden" loot that we call salvage? CCP got lazy on this point, and its fairly easy to see. Instead of telling people they haven't had time to program something, they told people something else, they contradicted themselves. They are giving loot rights, which is essentially salvaging the wreck (You are given special permission to loot items from the wreck, those without special permission are branded criminals for a period of time). But they aren't giving salvage rights, which is essentially looting the wreck again using a special tool. How dumb do they think we are. I don't salvage at this point in my career, so really I only care in the fact that these same people run the game Quote: Run missions in lowsec. Or, kill ninja + grab loot and dock up before he comes back. Or, mission outside the major hubs. Or, just decline missions that require an objective to be completed. Again this is a very typical PVP attitude. "You aren't doing something >I< like, you should do it <insert location> so I can non-consensually PVP you better and force you to play the game just like me, because how >I< play is better!". This is a poor attitude to have. Very often game-play mechanics in hi-sec are being manipulated in order to obtain easy kills. Essentially grief'in in order to infuriate a player into making a mistake and engaging. Quote: There's also no reason for missions to be as insanely profitable as they are now. I'd agree with such a change, but only when missions get put in line with other hisec professions. As often as it happens, I personally don't care if someone is there to salvage the wrecks. My beef is with the game mechanics surrounding the mission and the ability to complete the mission. Quote: Ninjasalvagers ever denied the lack of risk. We, however, aren't demanding your profession be removed from the game. Personally I believe that balancing hisec missions would remove ninjasalvaging as a very profitable endeavor, and I'm fine with that. I've put more emphasis on pleasing the Caldari Navy and making their goals my goals. So again, profit is secondary concern for me. Again, there are poor mechanics that make it impossible for me to report to the Caldari Navy if an outside force disrupts the mission objectives. Is there a real reason a player should take a standing hit if someone warps in, lights their AB's and loots a mission item before the mission runner can? Ok, if I'm going to take a standing hit for the failure, there needs to be a real risk for the offender to fairly quickly become an enemy of the State as they are (with the exception if they turn the item in, in which case there should be no standing hit but also no standing gain for the original mission runner) interfering with mission objectives and causing trouble for the Caldari Navy in my case (and defacto the Caldari State) and in turn infuriating them much much more then the mission runner has.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:05:00 - [22] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 27/09/2009 20:05:47 Quote: Why don't they, and give a valid argument why they shouldn't exist in High Security systems or in State sovereign space. If its a criminal act to loot a wreck, then why is it not one to go into the wreck and find "hidden" loot that we call salvage? CCP got lazy on this point, and its fairly easy to see. Instead of telling people they haven't had time to program something, they told people something else, they contradicted themselves. They are giving loot rights, which is essentially salvaging the wreck (You are given special permission to loot items from the wreck, those without special permission are branded criminals for a period of time). But they aren't giving salvage rights, which is essentially looting the wreck again using a special tool. How dumb do they think we are. I don't salvage at this point in my career, so really I only care in the fact that these same people run the game Shocked Loot is yours because CCP decided to give missionrunners ownership of the loot from the stuff they kill. Salvage is not because CCP did not decide to do that. If you need a RP reason, it's because CONCORD decided to grant ownership of loot to people who shoot stuff, but not to the floating bits of wreckage which are left behind. Keep in mind here that this is stuff that belongs to the people who you just exploded. Who owns what is determined solely on who the Powers that Be think should own it. Aka, CONCORD thinks that you should have the right to the loot, but doesn't care about salvage. Yes, it's arbitrary. if you need a gameplay reason, ninjaing adds a new dimension to the game which is newbie-friendly and forces interaction with other players onto missionrunners. CCP Dropbear stated here that generic missions are generally solo affairs that don't involve other players at all, and ninjasalvaging also helps rectify that problem as well. Quote: Ok, if I'm going to take a standing hit for the failure, there needs to be a real risk for the offender to fairly quickly become an enemy of the State as they are (with the exception if they turn the item in, in which case there should be no standing hit but also no standing gain for the original mission runner) interfering with mission objectives and causing trouble for the Caldari Navy in my case (and defacto the Caldari State) and in turn infuriating them much much more then the mission runner has. Depends on the mission item if you want to make it make sense in an RP sense. Of course, if you implement this, you have to give the salvager an opportunity to turn the mission item in himself for a piece of the reward.
Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:10:00 - [23] Originally by: MachineGunDave I've put more emphasis on pleasing the Caldari Navy and making their goals my goals. So again, profit is secondary concern for me. Well aren't you special. So obedient! Good little soldier! Quote: Again, there are poor mechanics that make it impossible for me to report to the Caldari Navy if an outside force disrupts the mission objectives. So in other words, you want to make an excuse to a fictional video game character explaining why it's not your fault that you failed to achieve your objective. Have you ever considered that CCP omitted such a feature for a specific roleplaying reason? Namely, that the Caldari Navy aren't chumps. Quote: Is there a real reason a player should take a standing hit if someone warps in, lights their AB's and loots a mission item before the mission runner can? Is there a reason why a real world employee might get a bad performance review if he unequivocally fails to perform the job he's paid to do? Yes, yes there is.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 27/09/2009 20:07:29 Loot is yours because CCP decided to give missionrunners ownership of the loot from the stuff they kill. Salvage is not because CCP did not decide to do that. If you need a RP reason, it's because CONCORD decided to grant ownership of loot to people who shoot stuff, but not to the floating bits of wreckage which are left behind. Keep in mind here that this is stuff that belongs to the people who you just exploded. Who owns what is determined solely on who the Powers that Be think should own it. Aka, CONCORD thinks that you should have the right to the loot, but doesn't care about salvage. Yes, it's arbitrary. if you need a gameplay reason, ninjaing adds a new dimension to the game which is newbie-friendly and forces interaction with other players onto missionrunners. CCP Dropbear stated here that generic missions are generally solo affairs that don't involve other players at all, and ninjasalvaging also helps rectify that problem as well. At this point I think we're arguing over semantics. CCP's stance doesn't hold up very well in-game when you apply a players name, corp and even their picture on the wreck. Ignoring all that, Ninja salvaging is very often a ploy to engage a player in an unfriendly manner (trick them into engaging). Frankly if someone wants to salvage/loot I have no problem with a quick talk and an arrangement worked out with a player. Quote: Depends on the mission item if you want to make it make sense in an RP sense. Of course, if you implement this, you have to give the salvager an opportunity to turn the mission item in himself for a piece of the reward. This is easy, upon mission failure (timer?) apply standings to said parties. Quote: This is EVE. EVE is a PVP game. I listed a **ton of solutions there for you, not all of which involve missioning in lowsec. YES, you will have to compromise because NO, other players aren't just going to let you have everything you want. Even in the **ing intro, the game says that other capsuleers aren't necessarily going to let you do your own thing. If you can't learn to deal with other players, then this is not the game for you. I'm not arguing the merits of the player versus player action, just that there is very little consequence with the in-game political factions (Oh yes you want your PVP cake but none of the PVE pie!) for essentially going against them by grabbing the mission items. There are also PVE elements to the game and there is a STRONG bias against them by large sections of the PVP base. Yes EVE is PVP, it is also PVE. Both elements are present in the game, so you have to accept that some players may attempt to avoid participation in PVP element in order to enjoy the PVE element (Or use PVE to gain power for PVP, etc). You will also find those that fit their ships for one playstyle are at a HUGE disadvantage to the other playstyle. Telling them to move to Low-sec or 0.0 isn't going to work for a lot of them. They lose the PVP protection of Hi-sec which is exactly why they are in Hi-sec to begin with. Their fits = fail against PVP fits. And if they PVP fit, they'll likely fail against the PVE they are playing against. Again, its an attitude that one playstyle type must be disrupted so to force them to your playstyle. You can't tell me there aren't plenty of people outside Hi-Sec (or inside for that matter) to consensually PVP. I won't argue the merits of it, you can probably efficiently engineer some pretty good fights to win and get some good loot to boot.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:44:00 - [25] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Well aren't you special. So obedient! Good little soldier! I try! Quote: So in other words, you want to make an excuse to a fictional video game character explaining why it's not your fault that you failed to achieve your objective. Have you ever considered that CCP omitted such a feature for a specific roleplaying reason? Namely, that the Caldari Navy aren't chumps. There are a few missions where you start out failing the original mission text from the start. You show up and the bad guys have already killed what you are there to protect, etc. Even if that's how it goes there should be standing hits for the other guy if he doesn't do the turn in himself. Which may mean doing intelligence and finding out where the mission originated, etc. People want to essentially be pirates, but not accept the abysmal standing in sovereign space that should come with it. This screams of game-play mechanic exploitation. Quote: Is there a reason why a real world employee might get a bad performance review if he unequivocally fails to perform the job he's paid to do? Yes, yes there is. Yes, and like I said. If I can take a standing hit for the mission failure. Someone sure should take a standing hit for buggering up the mission objectives.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:50:00 - [26] Quote: At this point I think we're arguing over semantics. CCP's stance doesn't hold up very well in-game when you apply a players name, corp and even their picture on the wreck. Ignoring all that, Ninja salvaging is very often a ploy to engage a player in an unfriendly manner (trick them into engaging). Frankly if someone wants to salvage/loot I have no problem with a quick talk and an arrangement worked out with a player. It's all on the wreck because the wreck also acts as a container for loot, which -does- belong to you. Quote: I'm not arguing the merits of the player versus player action, just that there is very little consequence with the in-game political factions (Oh yes you want your PVP cake but none of the PVE pie!) for essentially going against them by grabbing the mission items. Again, for it to be "going against them", you'd have to give an option for the ninja to turn in the mission item. Quote: There are also PVE elements to the game and there is a STRONG bias against them by large sections of the PVP base. Yes EVE is PVP, it is also PVE. Both elements are present in the game, so you have to accept that some players may attempt to avoid participation in PVP element in order to enjoy the PVE element (Or use PVE to gain power for PVP, etc). You will also find those that fit their ships for one playstyle are at a HUGE disadvantage to the other playstyle. Telling them to move to Low-sec or 0.0 isn't going to work for a lot of them. They lose the PVP protection of Hi-sec which is exactly why they are in Hi-sec to begin with. Their fits = fail against PVP fits. And if they PVP fit, they'll likely fail against the PVE they are playing against. Hint: Avoiding ganks in lowsec has nothing to do with your fit. Even if you could run missions in a PVP fit, you'd die just as horribly anyway due to being outnumbered 90% of the time. Fortunately, you have dscanner and local. You are under the mistaken impression that Hisec = safety PVE land and lowsec = PVP land. Quote: Again, its an attitude that one playstyle type must be disrupted so to force them to your playstyle. You can't tell me there aren't plenty of people outside Hi-Sec (or inside for that matter) to consensually PVP. I won't argue the merits of it, you can probably efficiently engineer some pretty good fights to win and get some good loot to boot. Nonconsensual PVP is a core element of EVE. EVE is a PVP game. IT has PVE elements, but in all aspects you should have to deal with other players. CCP has stated that the fact that you're normally exempt from player interaction in hisec missions is a flaw.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2009.09.27 20:56:00 - [27] I strongly recommend the OP to stop making "TEARs and SUDDENLY NINJAS now RECRUITING" threads.
XIII'th	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Twelve Jackals That's easy. They aren't instances, so everyone can get access. Now GTFO +1
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Nonconsensual PVP is a core element of EVE. EVE is a PVP game. IT has PVE elements, but in all aspects you should have to deal with other players. CCP has stated that the fact that you're normally exempt from player interaction in hisec missions is a flaw. There are both PVE and PVP in EVE. EVE is a sandbox and can't be defined as one thing. How you play is largely limited by your own imagination. Proclaiming it PVP with PVE elements is bias. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with PVP (Hi-sec or otherwise). It is just that PVP should have to deal with the PVE just as much as the PVE deals with PVP. It would be funny to see PVP'er complain that "I buggered up my standing with Caldari by habitually messing with easy missionrunners, now what? :(... emotears" to which the missionrunner would reply "You should have gone to Low-sec or 0.0!"
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:20:00 - [30] Quote: There are both PVE and PVP in EVE. EVE is a sandbox and can't be defined as one thing. How you play is largely limited by your own imagination. Proclaiming it PVP with PVE elements is bias. And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with PVP (Hi-sec or otherwise). It is just that PVP should have to deal with the PVE just as much as the PVE deals with PVP. Jesus christ the sandbox reference is getting annoying. In a sandbox, people can walk in, kick sand in your face, and then take a dump on the shiny sand castle you just built. Sandboxes don't come equipped with forcefields. EVERYTHING in EVE is competitive, except missions. That's a flaw with missions, not a flaw with everything else.
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:36:00 - [31] im betting thanks to you another 10 members have joined TEARS i must congratulate you you are aiding the people you hate so much
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Jesus christ the sandbox reference is getting annoying. In a sandbox, people can walk in, kick sand in your face, and then take a dump on the shiny sand castle you just built. Sandboxes don't come equipped with forcefields. EVERYTHING in EVE is competitive, except missions. That's a flaw with missions, not a flaw with everything else. How does "playground" work for ya?.... I'm sorry but if there was a way for me to serve my Caldari masters better without blowing up so many ships and earning so much ISK I would, because it would probably earn me standing with the Navy much faster. Until they make you lose standing for buggering up their missions, and give me a large standing boost for blowing ninja salvagers up (or mission buggers), I just don't have the incentive for it. The risk vs reward ratio isn't there because my reward is Standing with the Caldari Navy (In this case 0, you're worth nothing to them atm) and the risk is you will come back with a OMGWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship and blow me up afterward!
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:51:00 - [33] Quote: I'm sorry but if there was a way for me to serve my Caldari masters better without blowing up so many ships and earning so much ISK I would, because it would probably earn me standing with the Navy much faster. Until they make you lose standing for buggering up their missions, and give me a large standing boost for blowing ninja salvagers up (or mission buggers), I just don't have the incentive for it. The risk vs reward ratio isn't there because my reward is Standing with the Caldari Navy (In this case 0, you're worth nothing to them atm) and the risk is you will come back with a OMGWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship and blow me up afterward! ..... WHAT?! Did you say that missions aren't worth doing because the reward isn't worth the risk?
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:52:00 - [34] Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 21:52:26 2009.09.27 21:50 The sleazebag is currently at Saila VII - Moon 14 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant station in the Saila system, Santenpaa constellation of The Citadel region. everyone enjoy now that free too
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 21:57:00 - [35] Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 21:52:26 2009.09.27 21:50 The sleazebag is currently at Saila VII - Moon 14 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant station in the Saila system, Santenpaa constellation of The Citadel region. everyone enjoy now that free too Info relayed to my corp. You are a saint
Pan Dora Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:00:00 - [36] -When CCP implemented salvage the owner of the wreck was the owner of the salvage. But this changed in the first weeks after the implementation(because not enough people bothering to salvage). -Also some time ago ships on dead space was much more dificult to probe. CCP changed that also. Think about it. _ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: I'm sorry but if there was a way for me to serve my Caldari masters better without blowing up so many ships and earning so much ISK I would, because it would probably earn me standing with the Navy much faster. Until they make you lose standing for buggering up their missions, and give me a large standing boost for blowing ninja salvagers up (or mission buggers), I just don't have the incentive for it. The risk vs reward ratio isn't there because my reward is Standing with the Caldari Navy (In this case 0, you're worth nothing to them atm) and the risk is you will come back with a OMGWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship and blow me up afterward! ..... WHAT?! Did you say that missions aren't worth doing because the reward isn't worth the risk? You fail at reading comprehension. I said the reward is standing with Caldari Navy. I get 0 Standing increase for blowing up a ninja salvager. The risk is that they come back and blow me up with a LOLWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship afterwards and blow me up. Hence the risk vs reward is not there. Why bother feeding the PVP'er? Mission = Isk (Which I'm not worried about right now), LP and a boost in Caldari Navy standing. At this time, I can't find a better way to improve that standing and shooting at PVP'ers who steal stuff won't give me standing with the Caldari Navy, why shoot at them?
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:20:00 - [38] Oh no you guys know where I live. Why strong arm me into shutting up? What do you gain? Ohwait, Grief play vs Mission Runner!
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:22:00 - [39] Quote: You fail at reading comprehension. I said the reward is standing with Caldari Navy. I get 0 Standing increase for blowing up a ninja salvager. The risk is that they come back and blow me up with a LOLWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship afterwards and blow me up. Hence the risk vs reward is not there. Why bother feeding the PVP'er? But by blowing up the salvager you can get back the mission item. Thus opening the gateway to more standings and no standings loss.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: You fail at reading comprehension. I said the reward is standing with Caldari Navy. I get 0 Standing increase for blowing up a ninja salvager. The risk is that they come back and blow me up with a LOLWTFBBQ/LOLcopter ship afterwards and blow me up. Hence the risk vs reward is not there. Why bother feeding the PVP'er? But by blowing up the salvager you can get back the mission item. Thus opening the gateway to more standings and no standings loss. Yes, but isn't there a good chance the mission item gets destroyed? And isn't this all really a ploy to engage in PVP with those who really aren't ready/good at it? I mean, if you guys didn't get easy kills, wouldn't you find something else to do?
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:46:00 - [41] Quote: Yes, but isn't there a good chance the mission item gets destroyed? And isn't this all really a ploy to engage in PVP with those who really aren't ready/good at it? I mean, if you guys didn't get easy kills, wouldn't you find something else to do? Large percentages of us don't loot at all, and I didn't before I trained up for a gang battleship.
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.27 22:48:00 - [42] Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:50:40 Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:50:20 Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:49:48 Originally by: MachineGunDave Oh no you guys know where I live. Why strong arm me into shutting up? What do you gain? Ohwait, Grief play vs Mission Runner! no not atall i just taught itull be fun for my many brothers and sisters to help you on your missions as i cant atm you know you should thank me and pay me for trying to help you just Imagen all those people salvaging and looting your wrecks for you i think 50 mill should be in order and a nice big thank you cookie and maybe a hug EDIT god damn spelling
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Yes, but isn't there a good chance the mission item gets destroyed? And isn't this all really a ploy to engage in PVP with those who really aren't ready/good at it? I mean, if you guys didn't get easy kills, wouldn't you find something else to do? Large percentages of us don't loot at all, and I didn't before I trained up for a gang battleship. Obviously my PVE BC is gonna go up against a PVP gang fit BS like you wouldn't believe (Or maybe you would, I run passive so I have a nice signature for ya). How stupid would I have to be, to go for the bait and attack when looting starts to happen? I know my BC ain't even remotely ready for jack**** in the PVP world and the stuff I seen flying in to loot my stuff probably wouldn't be too hard for me to blow up. Its what they come back in that I don't stand a chance against.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:11:00 - [44] Quote: Obviously my PVE BC is gonna go up against a PVP gang fit BS like you wouldn't believe (Or maybe you would, I run passive so I have a nice signature for ya). How stupid would I have to be, to go for the bait and attack when looting starts to happen? I know my BC ain't even remotely ready for jack**** in the PVP world and the stuff I seen flying in to loot my stuff probably wouldn't be too hard for me to blow up. Its what they come back in that I don't stand a chance against. THen pop the looting ship -> Grab reward -> sit in station
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:21:00 - [45] Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:50:40 Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:50:20 Edited by: FISHANDCHIPS on 27/09/2009 22:49:48 Originally by: MachineGunDave Oh no you guys know where I live. Why strong arm me into shutting up? What do you gain? Ohwait, Grief play vs Mission Runner! no not atall i just taught itull be fun for my many brothers and sisters to help you on your missions as i cant atm you know you should thank me and pay me for trying to help you just Imagen all those people salvaging and looting your wrecks for you i think 50 mill should be in order and a nice big thank you cookie and maybe a hug EDIT god damn spelling Ohnos you ransom me! I hope I don't overexcite you guys with my flying tricks, I can be quite exciting to watch. I turned down a job with one of those Flying Aces outfits that do tricks in space. Usually I charge a pretty isk to let people watch, but I suppose I can charge you guys a group rate and cut you a deal. The group rate I normally charge 50mil isk, I think we can call it even. Please post a review on the forums afterwards to help me trump up more business oks? Oh what time do you guys want the show? Wanna go for quafe afterward? I'll sign some autographs and such. Maybe this can develop into a "special" relationship! Ohboys! I'm already growing quite fond of you. Toodles, catchyaslaters! hugs*!
Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:31:00 - [46] Originally by: MachineGunDave Oh what time do you guys want the show? Wanna go for quafe afterward? I'll sign some autographs and such. Maybe this can develop into a "special" relationship! Ohboys! I'm already growing quite fond of you. Toodles, catchyaslaters! hugs*! I love it when a crybaby realizes that everybody on the forums are laughing at him instead of agreeing with his righteous anger at the greefers, and then he pretends that he's the tough guy, it's all a big joke to him, and he never cared about it anyway. That's the really funny part of every one of these threads.
Bonny Lee Caldari The Guardian Agency Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:46:00 - [47] Only possible way would be to implement a way of gate-hacking. Lets add two skills: Gate-Encryption (requires Hacking LvL5) Skill-LvL 6 adds 5% to success in Gate Encryption per lvl Gate-Decryption (requires Hacking LvL5) Skill-LvL 6 adds 5% to success in Gate Decryption per lvl Lets also add a new module: Gate Hacking Device (or just Device :p) a High-Slot Module Duration 1-3 Minutes. Only works on Deadspace-Gates. Now with such a module fitted you are able to en- and decrypt gates. Module will now encrypt a gate at a certain percentage: Encryption of 0-50% You Fail gate keeps open Encryption of 50-60% You suceed but with very poor results Encryption of 60-70% You suceed but with poor results Encryption of 70-80% You suceed. Encryption of 80-90% You suceed with good results. Encryption of 90-99% You suceed with very good results. Encryption of 100% Damn ***** of a Hacker! You will be told if gate gets hacked again. After that gate is encryptet with a result of 50-100% or keeps open for traffic. The +5% per skill-lvl would be added to the result to a maximum of 100% Now comes the evil pirate with such a module fitted too. He has to hack the gate until he gets a result as good or better then the encryption-job. With a duration of 1-3 Minutes the better the gate was encryptet before the harder it will be to sucess in decryption. Wiht a High Skill-LvL he has a 25% Chance for sucess at first try. Perhaps this module should also be designed in a way which makes it possible to used cloaked so the Mission-Runner doesnt have lots of minutes to use his onboard Scanner. In every case it would make missioning in Low-Sec safer but not safe. What do the rest of you think about?
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.27 23:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: MachineGunDave Oh what time do you guys want the show? Wanna go for quafe afterward? I'll sign some autographs and such. Maybe this can develop into a "special" relationship! Ohboys! I'm already growing quite fond of you. Toodles, catchyaslaters! hugs*! I love it when a crybaby realizes that everybody on the forums are laughing at him instead of agreeing with his righteous anger at the greefers, and then he pretends that he's the tough guy, it's all a big joke to him, and he never cared about it anyway. That's the really funny part of every one of these threads. Whos crying? It certainly isn't me. I'm not even the OP who probably was crying. This is the ideas forum or something right? Like, we put ideas for the game right? Except these guys. Obviously they are very tough on the internets. Biker gang or something, at least one of them has a tattoo for sure. They're gonna hug me to death or something (Yay!). They don't like my ideas so much they want to mush me with their hugs of love. I'm not enough tough! I've got like 6.2m skill points and a really weak BC (for PVP, it does ok in PVE). Obviously these guys are so inflamed over my ideas on the internets they're gonna bully me in-game. Ya know but whatever its cool, I certainly ain't gonna have my period over it. Who cares? God forbid one of these PVP guys have to look in the direction of an NPC (except to loot it, cause like who doesn't absolutely love loots, its like candy from the internet). I certainly don't plan on actually fighting any of them, and if they're gonna be all over my missions, well holy smoke I got like a year worth of skill training to do so like. I better get busy doing that. I hope they hate me forever because then I win! So, lets recap. Consensus: People don't like the idea of locking jump gates. Consensus: WoW people whine alot. Consensus: Halfings love pie. Consensus: A double dutch loop-to-loop in reverse is totally worth 50mil! The quafe and "special" time with FISHNCHIPS afterward....Priceless. Consensus: Ninja salvagers are the devils, present company most certainly not excepted. Except FISHNCHIPS because they are yummy just like him! Consensus: Mission runners are worse then the devils, they're EVE Version 2.0 Mr. Rogers boring dogooders who need to burn in hells....except their loots we want those! My ideas were so good, the Ninja dudes hated them. I win!
Altie McName	Posted - 2009.09.28 00:48:00 - [49] Nah, your ideas aren't good, if they were, CCP would have implemented them a long time ago when people first started probing out missions, seeing as they haven't you ideas have already been tossed in the trash. As for you thinking ninja salvagers whine, nope, it's fun to act like you are screaming and complaining to get a rise and reaction from someone, like you have been entertaining people in this cookie cut thread. Most people don't come onto the threads to actually promote ideas to better the game or to help others, they come to watch people like you and trolls make fools of themselves and get a kick out of it. Sadly, you are a troll as well and nothing you say further will have the same entertainment value, meaning this thread will soon die and drop out and be forgotten, unless someone else comes in and takes your place from a new perspective ;). Also, you never did comment on what CCP has said about this from Kahega's post, Linkage
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.28 01:20:00 - [50] Originally by: Altie McName Nah, your ideas aren't good, if they were, CCP would have implemented them a long time ago when people first started probing out missions, seeing as they haven't you ideas have already been tossed in the trash. As for you thinking ninja salvagers whine, nope, it's fun to act like you are screaming and complaining to get a rise and reaction from someone, like you have been entertaining people in this cookie cut thread. Most people don't come onto the threads to actually promote ideas to better the game or to help others, they come to watch people like you and trolls make fools of themselves and get a kick out of it. Sadly, you are a troll as well and nothing you say further will have the same entertainment value, meaning this thread will soon die and drop out and be forgotten, unless someone else comes in and takes your place from a new perspective ;). Also, you never did comment on what CCP has said about this from Kahega's post, Linkage So why aren't my ideas good? Caldari doesn't care that people mess up their mission objectives? (I know they don't care, they are computer like Borg but won't assimilate you. Resistance is not futile! William Shatner was manlier then Jean Luc Picard!). I know Caldari don't like Pirates cause they keep sending me after them. They must all almost be dead by now. But maybe Suddenly Ninjas is like their Waste Management company and cleaning up systems for them and they have secret 10.0 Standing with Caldari. I see some of your points tho, I mean the first guy was definitely crying. Then everyone laughed at him. Then I started asking some questions like why the NPC corps don't get mad about this, then someone wanted my panties on a flagpole or my PIN to take all my isk's. Am I wrong for wondering why NPC corps wouldn't get mad? I mean come on, internets is serious business and I know lives hang in the balance. Obviously these guys are tougher then me and their words about the station I was at last night prove it. Their killboards so scary that I must have died a little inside when I went to look. How will I ever undock from my station with their whole Alliance out there waiting for me. God forbid CCP implement a mechanic that doesn't somehow work to PVP advantage. I'm sure they'll cry just like they did here when I had my ideas. Because lets face it, threatening to mash all my missions with your Corp and extorting 50mil isk from me over a few forum posts definitely does not make you look good. I'm sure as many people are laughing at them as are laughing at me, and at least I know I was acting like a clown here. Unfortunately they were just acting like themselves. Has anyone answered why an NPC corp shouldn't get ****ed when someone buggers up one of their missions and fubar's a mission for one of their mission runners? I mean, if it weren't for the backstory and the ingame elements that make this an immersive environment wouldn't this essentially just be Quake 3 Arena? What would the carepirates do if they had to deal with getting thrown out of Hi-sec Faction sovereign space? Would that be a bad thing? Why? Anyways, thanks for joining us. Here's yer sign! [ ] Keep keeping it real. Yo.
FISHANDCHIPS	Posted - 2009.09.28 01:49:00 - [51] 50mil isk from me over a few forum posts definitely does not make you look good you know i love this part for one you seem to have no sence of humor what so ever and in the end if you cant laught over it seeing ITS A GAME then i must say IMO you have one hell of a problem
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.28 02:06:00 - [52] Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS 50mil isk from me over a few forum posts definitely does not make you look good you know i love this part for one you seem to have no sence of humor what so ever and in the end if you cant laught over it seeing ITS A GAME then i must say IMO you have one hell of a problem Oh don't worry I'm havin' fun :) There's so much stuff to do with this game I know CCP won't get to anything I say because there's not enough time or manpower. Its fun to throw ideas around and see people get riled up tho. Or at least figure out why they don't like them. Everyone has agendas and time wrapped up in the game. That's understood. Unfortunately my 12 hr day at work is now turning into 15 or 16hrs and I'm getting tired with couple more hours to go. The caffeine is wearing off and my head is starting to hurt, but you guys kept me entertained and awake! Thanks.
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.28 03:51:00 - [53] There are few missions which require some kind of key, in those missions I'm using Estamel's geared navy raven and my drones are set on aggressive, and I have about 2800cap, with my lowest resistance overall is EM Im usually semi afk because I use also FOF, and yes sometimes I use smartbomb about 11km aoe. And I`m only yours dream...or am I not? Its true that it could move players further in low sec, if locked gates would provide protection against those corporations/alliances which aren't currently at war with yours. But this kind of protection should be reserved for players in player corporations only. And I believe that both sides would be happy, low sec dwellers and us carebears. Shoot your shot...
Altie McName	Posted - 2009.09.28 06:32:00 - [54] He's a possible reason why a NPC corp wouldn't get upset at the person, you accepted the mission, they are paying you to retrieve the item, you didn't do it fast enough and also were ill prepared seeing as you weren't so discreet about your location. Remember, while EVE is a pvp centered game, this is how CCP wants it to be by the way, it does have RolePlaying involved within its missions and reasons why events happen. Of course I am unaware if anyone from CCP has commented on the theft of the items, but again, since they have not changed this mechanic that has been around for a very long time, must mean nothings broken with it. Of course there is a simple solution, have more friends come with you on your mission to either lower the chance they take the required item, or as pew pew should they want to try and pvp you . Hopefully this simplicity isn't too much for you to understand.
Eagle Hawkstrike M.I.M.M.S	Posted - 2009.09.28 06:50:00 - [55] I've been found in missions before and having them steal stuff from me and salvage my wreaks is well legal. he's spent the time and effort scanning me down just to take this stuff, fair enough. As for losing your ship if you shoot the thief well that happens during mining too, why not in mission running. The only thing that should be locked is the mission objective stuff, ie "you must rescue the stranded crew" the stranded crew should be locked for all but mission runners. Being a person who lives in high sec i would find it awesome if people couldn't steal from me, but its not that way and some people have fun stealing stuff, to stop them doing what they do in high sec might lose CCP some players, that's never good for CCP. My position in the corp "Logistics Coordinator" just a fancy name for Janitor.
XIII'th	Posted - 2009.09.28 09:23:00 - [56] If missionrunner may want to lock his gates, I may want to remove gates at all, CCP - remove the gates please, so we may have more fun sending interceptors right on target not to warpgate. We dont like those nasty guys escaping when our tackler is flying from one gate to another. How do you like my idea?
Yalezorn Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.28 10:13:00 - [57] Originally by: Morris Kane care bears should be allowed to care bear and not fall victim to pirates in any form. That goes against the very essence of the game. This is not a care bear game. You are not safe anywhere. Also, if someone is stealing your salvage, petition it. No one should be able to take stuff out of your cargo hold. Until it's there, it's not yours.
MachineGunDave Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.28 13:39:00 - [58] Originally by: Eagle Hawkstrike I've been found in missions before and having them steal stuff from me and salvage my wreaks is well legal. he's spent the time and effort scanning me down just to take this stuff, fair enough. As for losing your ship if you shoot the thief well that happens during mining too, why not in mission running. The only thing that should be locked is the mission objective stuff, ie "you must rescue the stranded crew" the stranded crew should be locked for all but mission runners. Being a person who lives in high sec i would find it awesome if people couldn't steal from me, but its not that way and some people have fun stealing stuff, to stop them doing what they do in high sec might lose CCP some players, that's never good for CCP. I'm not even saying it should be made so they can't steal anything and everything. I'm saying they should take the Standing hits if they don't complete the mission that's been started. This could mean they need to find the right agent somehow and possibly even have some skills lined up to be able to converse with an agent they don't have the required standing for.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.09.28 13:49:00 - [59] They aren't gonna lock gates, but a nice flag for activating one while not in the owners fleet would be nice. I've suggested it before. More opertunities for real pvp (the pew pew type, not the "I want you to QQ" type) is always good. Don't even bother flaming me. Ya'll should know by now I aint gonna change my stance or shut up.
Altie McName	Posted - 2009.09.28 14:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Ya'll should know by now I aint gonna change my stance or shut up. Funny you should say that, now you and CCP have something in common when it comes to the way missions are and how salvaging works
Trazis	Posted - 2009.10.03 03:52:00 - [61] lol
AsheraII	Posted - 2009.10.03 07:53:00 - [62] It's a shame they're planning for a different lootmechanic in Diablo III, the WoW carebears would cry soooo much if it had the old Diablo / Diablo II loot mechanics. Those are actually identical to the Salvage mechanics for EVE. Just imagine some epic or unique plate dropping and HaxxorzzX picking it up right in front of you, then offering it for sale right away It's pretty strange how no carebear has ever thought of inviting a Salvager to come along with him on a mission to do the Salvaging. It's a pretty obvious solution to their problem: bring your own dedicated Salvager. Also means more cargo space for the useless loot, since given enough cargo space, it becomes interesting to pick it up and sell it on the market later.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.10.03 08:02:00 - [63] Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 03/10/2009 08:05:09 Originally by: Altie McName Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Ya'll should know by now I aint gonna change my stance or shut up. Funny you should say that, now you and CCP have something in common when it comes to the way missions are and how salvaging works Wrong. It changed before, it'll change again. CCP has to look to it's pocket book. If something is too unpopular or too much trouble it goes away. The rule of the majority isn't always right, but in business it's pretty much the only rule.

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