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L4 - Drake vs Raven -Timerace

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Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.02 11:03:00 - [1] Hello people, First of all my SP is 1,663,772 (with a good chunk of it wasted on mining and industry). I have a Drake fitted like this: High: 8x"Malkuth" Heavy Launcher Medium: 2xLarge Shield Extenders II 2xShield Recharger II 2xShield Amplifier II(mission specific) Low: 2xBallistic Control System II 2xType D Power Core Modification:Shield Power Relay Rig: 3xMedium Core Defend Field Purger I My current fighting skils are: heavy missile and missile launcher operation:l4 other missile skills:l3 drones:l5 I've been running L3 missions for a couple of days in this and it's pretty good(okay very slow and low DPS but the tank is great) I've got to the point where i have acces to some nice quality L4 agents and i'm trying to make a decision: -get 8x XR heavy launchers and an afterburner (around 35 Mill) or -train for Raven (5 days of training just to fly it) From what i've heard and read it is possible to run L4 on Drake and altough it's very slow, it's definately better-iskwise-than L3. I'm kind of limited on time because i have 14 days left of trial on the second account, and im planing to get a Plex, activate the second account so i also get the 30 days on the main account. My current ballance is :200 mill ISK Any suggestion is welcomed.
druid 99	Posted - 2009.10.02 11:21:00 - [2] wormholes hehe
Bek Thyron	Posted - 2009.10.02 11:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Evander Odyseus ... I have a Drake fitted like this: High: 8x"Malkuth" Heavy Launcher Medium: 2xLarge Shield Extenders II 2xShield Recharger II 2xShield Amplifier II(mission specific) Low: 3xBallistic Control System II 1xType D Power Core Modification:Shield Power Relay Rig: 3xMedium Core Defend Field Purger I My current fighting skils are: heavy missile and missile launcher operation:l4 other missile skills:l3 drones:l5 I've been running L3 missions for a couple of days in this and it's pretty good(okay very slow and low DPS but the tank is great) I've got to the point where i have acces to some nice quality L4 agents and i'm trying to make a decision: -get 8x XR heavy launchers and an afterburner (around 35 Mill) or -train for Raven (5 days of training just to fly it) From what i've heard and read it is possible to run L4 on Drake and altough it's very slow, it's definately better-iskwise-than L3. I'm kind of limited on time because i have 14 days left of trial on the second account, and im planing to get a Plex, activate the second account so i also get the 30 days on the main account. My current ballance is :200 mill ISK Any suggestion is welcomed. Fixed a typo in your fitting XD Just decline all the hard missions (=AE o.s.) And yes, you CAN survive c1 wormholes - if you scan down one, check for POS' first -.-
Daijiro Kojima	Posted - 2009.10.02 11:43:00 - [4] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1189447 I opened that post yesterday, im in the same situation as u ( more or les...with less SP). I¦ve seen some though lvl3 missions, so im afraid that some lvl4 mission would be too though for a drake, moreover with low SP. PD: Good trick the buddy program trial for salvaging and looting ;)
Mari Seles	Posted - 2009.10.02 12:23:00 - [5] Edited by: Mari Seles on 02/10/2009 12:23:35 Originally by: Evander Odyseus Hello people, First of all my SP is 1,663,772 (with a good chunk of it wasted on mining and industry). I have a Drake fitted like this: High: 8x"Malkuth" Heavy Launcher Medium: 2xLarge Shield Extenders II 2xShield Recharger II 2xShield Amplifier II(mission specific) Low: 2xBallistic Control System II 2xType D Power Core Modification:Shield Power Relay Rig: 3xMedium Core Defend Field Purger I Where would I get that drake? I'm willing to pay 100 million for it.
Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.02 12:32:00 - [6] Mari, i think it's worth much less than 100 mill. Just buy everything from Jita or any other trade center.Prices tend to be lower there. Good luck with your fit
Mari Seles	Posted - 2009.10.02 12:33:00 - [7] A drake with 8 launcher slots? No I think if we take the price of a navy raven into account 100 million is about right.
Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.02 12:55:00 - [8] Ah, my bad
Hornet2060 Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.02 13:11:00 - [9] Grind your lvl 3's and train all supporting skills before you grab a Raven and do lvl 4's, flying a Drake and flying a Raven are very different. I have found this out the hard way in a few lvl 4 missions. Be prepared to loose ships and standings.
Prof Pain SmokingGuns Corp	Posted - 2009.10.02 13:50:00 - [10] with low skills, the tank on the drake will be tougher, than on a raven. further more you would also need to bring your cruise or even torp skills up. torps will limit your range and you will have to tank even more. so i would go with the drake and bring the skills up first. but i know of a lot of 2-3mill sp chars that run l4s in in ravens. you have to manage aggro well (www.eve-survival.org) and should be fine than. but if you do so as well, insure this thing! cheers!
Ceti Lomax Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2009.10.02 14:57:00 - [11] Evander, have you tried your fitting in EFT (EVE Fitting Tool)? Off hand, as a low SP character, I think you can build a drake that has enough defence to survive most lvl4 mission, but probably won't do enough damage to handle the toughest rats (The toughest of all is the named rat at the end of the lvl4 Vengence missions). To handle any lvl4 mission, you need about 320 dps tank, and you'll need about 400 dps offense to eliminate the toughest rats. EFT will tell you what defence and damage your skills and fitting give you. The best use of training is to train your Battlecruiser skill. Train it to lvl 5. The Battlecruiser skill gives you both a big bonus to defence (5% bonus to shield resists), and a good bonus to offense (%5 kinetic missile damage).
Terminus Vindictus Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.02 15:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Evander Odyseus -get 8x XR heavy launchers and an afterburner (around 35 Mill) or -train for Raven (5 days of training just to fly it) I say do both. It'll take you a LOT longer than 5 days of training to fly a Raven to the point which you'll be able to survive L4 missions. As others have said, you can run most L4's in your low-SP Drake, but your low-SP Raven will simply melt. There's more to flying a Raven than just being able to jump into the hull. It has half the tank, takes twice the damage, and does about the same DPS with low SP compared to a similar Drake. Hello, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help.
pausert Caldari AFK	Posted - 2009.10.02 16:48:00 - [13] Stick with the drake, raven's actaully require a lot of sp to fly and survive lvl 4. Ugrade your launchers, change your mids to active hardeners if you can and an amp, use 2 spr and 2 BCU for now. This setup will take you through most lvl 4 missions, stay away from Vengence and Enamies abound and be careful with large missions like WC or AE. Missions against Guri's or EOM will be fairly easy, Mercs, Bloods and Sansha bit harder due to a mix of damage type and your kinetic bonus loss. Have an out of system waypoint destination set and stay aligned or if you can, orbit something to reduce incoming damage. Take lots of ammo with you and read eve-survival and watch your idiot drones and triggers. You should have no problems doing most lvl 4, it will just take you a bit longer.
Phaedriel	Posted - 2009.10.02 17:10:00 - [14] Just to put it into perspective, I'm about to hit 24m SP and I'm still training my Raven skills. Stick with the drake for now, train up the skills that will help BOTH (Drones, missile support, shield support, capacitor) and start putting some fitting ideas together for how you want to fly it. The Raven is a very different beast to the Drake and takes a lot of SP to really shine. I wager if you jump into a raven now 2 things will happen. 1) You'll die 2) You'll wonder why anyone uses them. You should be aiming for l4 skills across the board for the raven really and an understanding of the different ways to fit one (perma tank, pulse tank, gank/tank fits, cruise or torp, etc).
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.02 17:49:00 - [15] I have a 15m SP ( admittedly a lot of industrial/exploration ) alt who's Raven still scares the hell out of me, I always think it's tank is going to break; he has more SP in engineering than you have in total. If you think your l3 dps is low, you'll probably never finish a lot of the L4s.
Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.03 20:03:00 - [16] Thank you everybody for all the help I will continue running L3 and eventualy L4 in Drake
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.10.04 05:28:00 - [17] It is reasonable to stick to drake for now and perhaps even to do L3 missions in some sec 0.5 good quality agent for a little while more unless you have already enough reserves so you would be able to replace that drake when something khm .. happens to it. As a rough rule of thumb one can do L4 without warpouts at 2-3 mil SP in Raven with cap injector. When you would have to warp out several times from mission you might actually get better rewards per time spent in level 3 missions that should go considerably easier for you. Would suggest starting by pushing initial tanking skills to minimal reasonable levels - ie T2 shield hardeners and shield size and recharge skills to L4, also doing capacitor skills to L4 is good idea as passive tanked drake with active shield hardneers (thats how it's usually used) can have some capacitor problems when you have to stick around longer, as those passive shield recharge modules that go into low slot and are a lot better than just shield rechargers in mid slots lower also your capacitor regen. After that work on missile support skill - try to get them to L4. All together it might take you few weeks and some hundreds of thousands additional SP. Now that you have average skills it's reasonable to go for Raven. Would suggest starting with XL T2 booster, 3x Rat specific hardeners, shield boost amp and heavy cap injector with x800 charges and at least 3 BCU's (you might need fitting mod or two if you have low SP). Damage control is also reasonable if you have lowish skills and be sure to insure your raven. I have lost more battleships in missions than I have in 0.0 fleet battles while learning the ropes and all the dos and dont do's in level 4 missions. Ofc reading eve survival helps to prepare you to what you will be facing but there are things that are sometimes nhot mentioned there and that will get you killed first time you encounter those things - for example 'buddy agro' that can pop you real fast if you happen to use drones on few very special firigates in enemies abound or worlds collide. Good luck.
amdul kabar	Posted - 2009.10.04 07:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Ceti Lomax To handle any lvl4 mission, you need about 320 dps tank, and you'll need about 400 dps offense to eliminate the toughest rats. EFT will tell you what defence and damage your skills and fitting give you. I have been wondering about this. How do you see how much DPS you can tank on EFT?
Ildryn IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.04 07:30:00 - [19] Send your 200mill to another 2 week trial account....then earn more so you can buy your gtc... Anything else and your risking the loss of your ship. It would take you too long to properly fit up a raven,
Ceti Lomax Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:09:00 - [20] Edited by: Ceti Lomax on 05/10/2009 17:11:44 Edited by: Ceti Lomax on 05/10/2009 17:09:24 Originally by: amdul kabar Originally by: Ceti Lomax To handle any lvl4 mission, you need about 320 dps tank, and you'll need about 400 dps offense to eliminate the toughest rats. EFT will tell you what defence and damage your skills and fitting give you. I have been wondering about this. How do you see how much DPS you can tank on EFT? On the right side of the EFT screen you'll see 2 boxes; one labeled "defense", another labeled "firepower". Defence is the DPS you can tank. Firepower is the DPS you do. You can view stats against particular damage types by right clicking on the "defence" label and selecting a damage mix. Of course, before you do this you need to upload your character skills and build a ship.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:36:00 - [21] Done level 4 in a Drake and in a Raven. It's a lot easier in a low-skill Drake than a low-skill Raven. The Raven is a LOT FASTER DPS wise, but at low skill it has FAR LESS TANK, so you end-up warping out a lot, and waiting on cap recharge between groups. I think a low-skill Raven is a lot more fun, as you actually have to pay attention or you will quickly go BOOM. Nothing happens fast on even a low-skill Drake though.
NaMorham Santorin Caldari Tech 1 Holdings Limited Superior Eve Engineering	Posted - 2009.10.06 07:18:00 - [22] It will also depend on the mission. Some missions have a lot of cruisers and smaller, and few battleships or battlecruisers, and I find my drake goes through these faster than my raven.
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.10.09 09:57:00 - [23] I would stick to your Drake for now and train up some Engineering skills, shields. Once you have some good defense, train to get some ballistic control units. They improve you DPS, especially at T2. You can run Lvl 4's in a Drake and many do this, don't try and get into a Raven too quickly as you will only lose it. It is powerful with the right skills but slow and expensive. You can lose your Drake and buy/fit another for 100m ISK. Your Drake should be a passive Drake as well. You should be to Tank most low level 4's no problem. Just be patient with the Raven.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.09 13:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 09/10/2009 13:54:54 My Drake. I've done a lot of level 4 missions in it (easier than in a low-skill Raven). Fit the appropriate 3x hardeners for the missions (I carry 2x of every hardener type to the mission agent). You'll need as many as 3,000 missiles per mission. [Drake, Basic (Guristas)] Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin II x5
Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.09 14:45:00 - [25] That's exactly where i'm going.2 more days untill i can get my hands on those shiny T2 drones and im saving for the Xr launchers. I hit 300 mill long ago btw :)
pausert Caldari AFK	Posted - 2009.10.09 15:23:00 - [26] Don't use Tau's Drake fit, it's overtanked and only uses 6 launchers, you will want 7 launchers for DPS.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.10.09 16:23:00 - [27] Originally by: pausert Don't use Tau's Drake fit, it's overtanked and only uses 6 launchers, you will want 7 launchers for DPS. not to mention looting/salvaging in a drake will be painfully slow, although with 6 launchers and low skills killing stuff will be even more painfully slow. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
Evander Odyseus	Posted - 2009.10.10 09:25:00 - [28] Ok ,quick update: -changed the malkuth launchers for 7 "Arbalest heavy launchers" -changed 1 Ballistic control system for "Dread Guristas ballistic control unit"-drop Am i ready for L4 now?T2 drones coming tommorow.
Aveneer Walker	Posted - 2009.10.10 10:46:00 - [29] yes, mount as much dps as you can. go back and salvage in salvage destroyer. its faster and more effective.
Dracthera Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.10 15:35:00 - [30] Edited by: Dracthera on 10/10/2009 15:35:48 Originally by: Evander Odyseus Ok ,quick update: -changed the malkuth launchers for 7 "Arbalest heavy launchers" -changed 1 Ballistic control system for "Dread Guristas ballistic control unit"-drop Am i ready for L4 now?T2 drones coming tommorow. Just because you can jump into a ship with decent fittings doesn't mean you're ready to tackle L4's. A big part of that still comes down to your skills and your tactics. Plenty of L4 missions can melt even the toughest ships if you get careless on your pulls. If you're running L3's very slow with low DPS, you'll have big issues running L4's. Generally, until you know what you're doing running L4's, I'd recommend erring on the side of caution and fitting a decent tank. I'd advise against going into L4's without at least 600 EFT mission-specific Defense. That means crappy DPS, but at least it gives you a chance to study the situation, to practice your pulls, etc. Study the eve-survival for every mission you run. Once you know what you can expect, you can start ratcheting up your DPS and lower your Defense. Apto Quod Ususfructus

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