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Flibertygibbet
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Posted - 2009.10.04 13:44:00 -
[31]
its likely Dust wont be the sort of ongoing evolution EVe is. So what additional content there is, will be most likely gear and vehicles (easy peasy), not graphical revamps and changes to game mechanics (hard sums involved).
Dust will be a finished product, eve, like the real world - will never be finished (lets hope). Thus a sub would not be appropriate for Dust, whereas with eve - we are paying CCP to develop the game on an ongoing basis.
I would never buy a console game that required subs in addition to the steep entry fee.
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Crimsoneer
Gallente
Knowledge Stick Station
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Posted - 2009.10.04 13:53:00 -
[32]
I'm just worried that CCP doesn't realise a console game will never have the lifespan EVE does...they're planning on starting people fighting NPCs, then having them join Sov warfare. Dust might easily be dead before people hit sov warfare.
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Pods and Pills, a low sec blog |
Sister Fein
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Posted - 2009.10.04 13:54:00 -
[33]
I didn't manage to catch the EVE-tv presentation :(
Did they mention how many concurrent players would be possible in one 'match' in DUST? Unless they keep the numbers down the lag will be truly aweful - and that's a REAL no-no for an FPS.
I also wonder about the viability of Xbox players fighting against PS3 players - I wonder how happy microsoft/sony will be about that idea...
/Fein
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.10.04 14:02:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Crimsoneer
I'm just worried that CCP doesn't realise a console game will never have the lifespan EVE does...they're planning on starting people fighting NPCs, then having them join Sov warfare. Dust might easily be dead before people hit sov warfare.
They also stated quite clearly that EVE will be able to continue fine without dust, and dust will be able to continue without EVE.
As for the micro transaction thing, who gives a ****. It's console players. Not EVE players.
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Eeontasia
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Posted - 2009.10.04 15:25:00 -
[35]
To make it clear for the OP as to why there is no "outcry" about microtransactions is because DUST 514 is a console game. I don't think I need to explain to you what kind of reputation console games have amongst the PC crowd. Especially amongst people with such fine tastes as to be playing Eve.
Simply said, few people here actually give a flying ****.
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Leeluvv
Divine Retribution
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.10.04 15:46:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Leeluvv on 04/10/2009 15:46:56
Originally by: Sister Fein
Did they mention how many concurrent players would be possible in one 'match' in DUST?
They don't have a firm answer yet, but more than 16 less than 255 was CCP's CEO's comment.
Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
A wife is just a T2 GF. They're more expensive and their resists are higher
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.04 16:08:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 04/10/2009 16:11:02
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
its likely Dust wont be the sort of ongoing evolution EVe is. So what additional content there is, will be most likely gear and vehicles (easy peasy), not graphical revamps and changes to game mechanics (hard sums involved).
Dust will be a finished product, eve, like the real world - will never be finished (lets hope). Thus a sub would not be appropriate for Dust, whereas with eve - we are paying CCP to develop the game on an ongoing basis.
I would never buy a console game that required subs in addition to the steep entry fee.
Actually, though information is scarce, there has been mention of frequent upgrades to the game (which is entirely possible now).
I really think that CCP is trying to break new ground for console games, just as they had a revolutionary concept (that has yet to be duplicated) with EVE. Everything that has been released about DUST so far screams "persistent game" for the console crowd, almost a whole new genre for console gaming. DUST isn't going to be simply about "instant gratification" game play.
There will be consequences for failure, there will be rewards for continued loyalty, there will be a strong involvement with a persistent and constantly expanding gaming universe. Console gamers have never had this before, and frankly I think that a lot of console gamers are tired of dropping cash for another new game every couple of months just to find something new and interesting to do... something that actually gives them more than a fleeting feeling of victory when the beat the final boss monster. Currently, at that point, they then only have the choices of start over again or buy a new game. DUST isn't going to be set up like that.
I think CCP is attempting to lift console gaming up out of the rut it's in now and give it some real meat. And if they can do that, I think you will find players of DUST becoming just as dedicated to their game as EVE players are to ours.
And instead of having a financial model based around maximum profits over a very short period of time, the income of DUST will be a steady source of revenue over a long period of time (which is ultimately much more profitable).
We will just have to wait and see if they can pull it off.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Claudia Voltaire
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Posted - 2009.10.04 20:02:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I think that a lot of console gamers are tired of dropping cash for another new game every couple of months just to find something new and interesting to do...
I think CCP is attempting to lift console gaming up out of the rut it's in now and give it some real meat.
Honestly my friend, im not just selective quoting, as you're whole post follows the general theme of those two above sentences. I seriously think you're either not looking at the console scene, or completely oblvious to it.
Console gaming sales are in the millions mate, gamers get exactly what they want.
Yearly updates on massively strong ip's, big liecensed titles, all the bling and badass publicity surounding the hype, gamers love it, publishers love it, the industry is worth billions because of it.
Intitled to you're opinion as i am mine, but stuck in a rut, people being bored it, i just can't agree. Thats from a personal view point seeing the explosion over the last few years in console gaming, buying a wii and a ps3 because of the enjoyment factor thats had from the short and simple gaming that comes with.
Aside from the more recent harsh times in the world, console gaming sales have hit the roof over the last few years, the people love it.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.04 21:09:00 -
[39]
No argument there, console games are worth big bucks. However that doesn't mean that they aren't stuck in a rut.
Console game companies must currently, of necessity, keep churning out new iterations of their popular titles. The individual games do not have much in the way of longevity.
I think, perhaps, it may be time to change that.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.04 21:41:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/10/2009 21:46:52
Originally by: Tamahra
But i wonder why theres no outcry on such a thing among the playerbase?!?
Because most EVE players won't bother trying DUST, because it won't come out for the PC (or, at least, not at first).
For instance, I don't own any consoles, and don't plan to buy any consoles any time soon.
Also, I kind of gave up on shooters nearly half a decade ago.
Granted, if DUST would come on the PC, I might just give it a go, but I certainly won't buy a console just to play it.
In other words, I won't be playing DUST any time soon.
So I don't care how the chosen payment model would be.
Still, if I have to pick between 15 euro per month with all content unlocked vs 5 euro for a single specific "equipment pack" but otherwise free of charge... I'll most likely pick the latter, thank you very much.
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Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
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Claudia Voltaire
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Posted - 2009.10.04 22:05:00 -
[41]
Ohh no arguements there ranger 1.
Away from eve i still play 3 pc titles over 10 years old online on a regular basis, if only i ever owned a console game with that kinda of staying put, id be a wealthy man.
The industry now though feeds on money, i know the micro/sub system is steady ready cash, works well on the pc. Generalising about consoling players over avid pc users isn't realy my thing, but in general there is unfortunately.
The powers that be know that too and would rather continue on shoving you through one nice looking door, then on to the next, each one with a big dollar sign stamped on.
CCP can go all out with dust, but in truth their appealing to a braindead audience, with an industry thats totaly all against the idea of one game nicking revenues and ruining their great business model.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Money Liberation Services Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.05 00:35:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Akita T
For instance, I don't own any consoles, and don't plan to buy any consoles any time soon.
Granted, if DUST would come on the PC, I might just give it a go, but I certainly won't buy a console just to play it.
This sums it up i guess.
Why bother? If it doesn't come out for my SNES or PC, i'm not interested. Now, i would love to have a game that feels like old school bf1942 again, and Dust might be a game like that if it were on Pc.
But it's not a Pc game, so i couldn't care less.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ranger 1
No argument there, console games are worth big bucks. However that doesn't mean that they aren't stuck in a rut.
Console game companies must currently, of necessity, keep churning out new iterations of their popular titles. The individual games do not have much in the way of longevity.
I think, perhaps, it may be time to change that.
I have to say I agree with you. Console games are stuck in a rut, following generic ideas and formulae. Sadly, this is exactly what the public want. The public demands homoerotic space marines grunting macho dialog to each other as they 'put the smackdown' on yet another slobbering alien.
However, I suspect CCP may end up creating something unique here. There is certainly the potential for limitless replayability, as the political landscape in the main game changes. The sense of community may also prove to be a much bigger draw than the anti-console gamer crowd might expect. When you know your actions are impacting on a larger scale, there is more to invest in it, and the bigger the emotional investment, the more likely they are to keep playing.
I am intrigued by this concept and look forward to its release.
I'm no fan of micro-transactions, though. It stinks of large companies squeezing the customer for every last penny. When I buy a game, I expect to either pay once, or pay a subscription (as we do with MMOs). To then be asked to pay again to achieve full functionality is a bloody cheek in my book, and there is no way I will pay another few quid to get an extra item or bigger inventory, or whatever. Unfortunately, this does create a two tier system, where the rich can afford the 'full game' (and all the advantages it confers), whereas the less affluent (and those with principles) will have to struggle with an incomplete game. Some may say these do not have any direct affect on the game, but they must offer some benefits, otherwise people would not spend money on it (unless we now have a generation of people who will literally spend money on nothing). This 'transaction model' may not be too impacting yet, but we all know the propensity for corporations to violate all known ethics in pursuit of profits. It's the start of a slippery slope, kids.
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XenoPagan
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:34:00 -
[44]
I don't see a reason for outcry. microtransactions are by now quite usual business model, no?
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Akor Flandres
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:21:00 -
[45]
On what basis can anyone make statements like 'most eve players won't play DUST' or to that effect? In your opinion, right? Are there any detailed statistics available on how many EVE subscribers own consoles? Thought not.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tamahra
"No Subscription Fee - DUST 514 will operate on a micro-transaction model."
due to streaming issues with the live cam, i might not have gotten that one correctly. But i wonder why theres no outcry on such a thing among the playerbase?!?
or anyone know if i just misunderstood that one?
Why should i cry out loud? I agree i was interested in DUST (got console, playing on it fairly often). But when i heard microtransactions it was already dead to me - im not gonna pay 2-3x what game is worth just to keep playing. Compared to EVE which is one of 2 or 3 games i have installed on PC (yeh PC games are that crap, nothing interesting came out in ages now) i have like 10 games on PS3 now (of which finishing 4 at once ;p) and another 4 which im thinking about buying this month. So DUST or no DUST, doesnt matter - console will still be busy.
The only possible way (i see) to fixit is to enable payment by EVE PLEX system. Buy plex in eve (ingame), use it to fund DUST stuff. Then might even bother. Otherwise? Naah, plenty of other stuff to play.
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RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:19:00 -
[47]
I will not play dust if it doesn't come to PC, because I cba to buy a PS3 cuz of 1 game :P
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:37:00 -
[48]
No outcry because there aren't enough people upset about it. Not gonna play it, don't care how they pay for it.
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking. |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Akor Flandres
On what basis can anyone make statements like 'most eve players won't play DUST' or to that effect? In your opinion, right? Are there any detailed statistics available on how many EVE subscribers own consoles?
Well, actually during the fanfest the CEO of CCP stated that with DUST they wanted to target the audience that was less likely to be interested in EVE. And I bet that THEY have done all their homeworks before committing to such an expensive strategy...
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Dannerkongen
Lootex
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:08:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kern Hotha
Outgrew shooters years ago.
man u must be like 80 or something
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Raneru
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tamahra
"No Subscription Fee - DUST 514 will operate on a micro-transaction model."
due to streaming issues with the live cam, i might not have gotten that one correctly. But i wonder why theres no outcry on such a thing among the playerbase?!?
Maybe because there isn't enough information available to pass judgement on it yet....?
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Face Eelai
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:12:00 -
[52]
can't wait for yahtzee to make his zero punctuation about dust xDDDD
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:41:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Claudia Voltaire
Ohh no arguements there ranger 1.
Away from eve i still play 3 pc titles over 10 years old online on a regular basis, if only i ever owned a console game with that kinda of staying put, id be a wealthy man.
The industry now though feeds on money, i know the micro/sub system is steady ready cash, works well on the pc. Generalising about consoling players over avid pc users isn't realy my thing, but in general there is unfortunately.
The powers that be know that too and would rather continue on shoving you through one nice looking door, then on to the next, each one with a big dollar sign stamped on.
CCP can go all out with dust, but in truth their appealing to a braindead audience, with an industry thats totaly all against the idea of one game nicking revenues and ruining their great business model.
I really don't agree that the console market is a brain dead audience.
I think they just don't have any good options compared to the current "wait for the next bigger, better version" of the games that they enjoy.
If I were a Halo fan, I'd love to play that game knowing that the game...
... would be expanded on, rather than reinvented as a new release.
... was an environment where I could make a name for myself, instead of remaining an anonymous player.
... allowed me to easily join player created groups that could build a reputation for themselves.
... provided an environment where my actions had noticeable affects on the entire gaming world.
... still had the option for an hour of mindless pew pew when I wanted it.
... would retain the elements that I enjoy for a long time, while providing new and fresh challenges.
I think that console gamers are not so different from PC gamers, but rather have been force fed a steady diet of mindless dead end games... primarily for the purpose of forcing them to fork out big bucks for each new release to continue experiencing the game world/style that they enjoy.
I no longer play console games much because I wanted a deeper gaming experience, and did not want to fall into that particular financial trap. I would be thrilled to find that kind of depth in a console game, just as my kids would love to find that kind of depth in say TEKKEN or Halo. I personally would find time for both EVE and DUST, but for many console gamers it will open up a whole new world of options as well as a much deeper level of enjoyment than they currently have.
As for the rest of the console gaming industry frowning upon this, I don't think CCP gives a damn what they think. CCP has made a habit of doing what the rest of the gaming industry has said could not be done, and making it a long term and profitable venture.
I think it more likely that the console gaming industry big boys are going to be watching what CCP does next very closely, with an eye towards rethinking their current production model.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I no longer play console games much because I wanted a deeper gaming experience, and did not want to fall into that particular financial trap.
Sims, sims univerity, sims cemetary, sims circus, sims dogs sims cats and sims whatever disagree with you. So does call of duty world war 2, call of duty world war 2-2, call of duty world war 2-3 and so on.
Both gaming systems have plenty of crap games or continued series. but what you wrote above is just typical bias towards consoles.
They do have quite a few interesting titles which beat crap out of any pc title out there. Easy question - did you ever spend 300 hours or 1000 hours on ANY pc game except mmo (well and in some case shooters)?
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Volabryn
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ranger 1
I no longer play console games much because I wanted a deeper gaming experience, and did not want to fall into that particular financial trap.
Sims, sims univerity, sims cemetary, sims circus, sims dogs sims cats and sims whatever disagree with you. So does call of duty world war 2, call of duty world war 2-2, call of duty world war 2-3 and so on.
Both gaming systems have plenty of crap games or continued series. but what you wrote above is just typical bias towards consoles.
They do have quite a few interesting titles which beat crap out of any pc title out there. Easy question - did you ever spend 300 hours or 1000 hours on ANY pc game except mmo (well and in some case shooters)?
Digger, tetris, packman, civilisation, doom .. do they count?
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.10.05 19:40:00 -
[56]
Whether or not Dust 514 takes off with the console market there will be some % of EvE players who play it because they have a console and it effects their corporation.
If the microtransactions can be covered by EvE isk then they will be in the clear.
It looks like the microtransactions will be covered by isk.
Therefore the people who will get screwed are console players with no idea that they could get sponsored by an EvE group and stop paying $$$.
Dust 514 players will be forced to work closely with EvE players while at the same time hopefully there will be game mechanics in EvE that make relying on Dust 514 players useful.
This is a good thing. It includes more people in the consistent world and encourages player interaction.
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Caldari Citizen4714
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Posted - 2009.10.05 19:46:00 -
[57]
That's cause not many people here will be playing it.
Most of us aren't console gamers.
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Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.05 20:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Crimsoneer
I'm just worried that CCP doesn't realise a console game will never have the lifespan EVE does...they're planning on starting people fighting NPCs, then having them join Sov warfare. Dust might easily be dead before people hit sov warfare.
Dust will not be a part of Sov warfare. Also, as others have mentioned, while interconnected, the two are separate games and would work just fine on their own if the other part didn't exist.
Originally by: Sister Fein
I didn't manage to catch the EVE-tv presentation :(
According to the presentation slides…
Dust 514
Dust & EVE- EVE and Dust 514 will be linked using a phased implementation strategy at specific stages during the lifecycle of the two products
Theatre of War- The Theatre of War is the container for all non-player corporation and player corporation conflict that takes place within the game.
Dynamic Battlefields- Any battlefield is an inherently volatile place, but in Dust 514, they are truly dynamic
Vehicle fitting- An essential part of the IP — offers extensive customization opportunities and ibues vehicle combat with greater depth
Economy system- The game will utilize a microtransaction payment model that allows a la carte purchasing of blueprints for thousands of weapons, turrets, modules, and equipment for in-game use
Alliances & Corporations- Dust 514 players can establish corporations and form alliances with one another and EVE players
Quote:
Did they mention how many concurrent players would be possible in one 'match' in DUST?
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“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.05 20:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Flibertygibbet
Thus a sub would not be appropriate for Dust, whereas with eve - we are paying CCP to develop the game on an ongoing basis.
A common misconception.
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D1Lazarus
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Posted - 2009.10.05 21:08:00 -
[60]
I just wanna "dust" a planet from orbit.
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