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Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 12:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Darina Rea Originally by: Jade Constantine We Free Captains are fighting for what we want. You should've stopped there. Perhaps added that your cause is nothing more or less then complete open borders, as you always have. Atleast that's how I always saw the Star Fraction. As I recall you have always struggled to understand the Star Fraction. It seems this continues. I'd encourage you to re-read the opening statement and ask questions about anything you are confused about. Ask for examples, clarification, whatever. Feel free. I'll be happy to end your ignorance if that is what you truly want. The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction
Jake Dreadmore Caldari JotunHeim Hird	Posted - 2009.10.11 15:30:00 - [32] Edited by: Jake Dreadmore on 11/10/2009 15:31:52 I've come to wonder if your ideas of the "grand self-illusions" havenÆt lead to your biggest oversight. Of the claim of self interest is the big thumbs up.. Well, setting aside all the depressed people, the backstabbers and disgruntled workers... Most people claiming to fight for god, state and/or freedom.. Well, I've claimed before that no one's really that unique to begin with, and I stand by that.. so maybe you arenÆt so much apart to begin with? I reckon a lot of the people serving in the empires do it for very selfish reasons.. power, glory, fame... and those who do not claim those things as their own, they do it for the warm fuzzy feeling that one gets for doing something they believe in. Some will stand down from a fight because they get to feel that they are right. Some will start a fight for the very same reason, or perhaps just to get that ôbig feelingö. Most people will do a job, get paid and win the bread, perhaps even get some small luxuries, because thatÆs what they want to do, and what they want to have. You give away that last piece of cake, despite the fact that you really want it, because you want someone else to be pleased.. or feel gratitude.. There are many examples, but simply put I donÆt believe that there is such a thing selflessness. ItÆs a term conjured to describe an action that does not visibly or materialistically provide the actor with a benefit. There is "what you want" And "how you'll get it", and some people donÆt want to just make and break shiny ships for the sake of wallet growth. Ps. I donÆt believe that Wallet growth isnÆt a worthwhile thing to do, IÆm merely trying to make a point. -Jake ôThe crazy guy who flew a 400million ISK Hulk out of 0.0 during the second Delve war and then went back to get his Ravenö Dreadmore
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 18:29:00 - [33] Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 11/10/2009 18:31:13 Well spoken. Love him or hate him, everyone has to admit Jade can certainly turn a phrase with the best of them. there is one point IÆd like to bring up about the vast supply of advanced technology produced by the Star Fraction in regards to success: The technological production of the Star Fraction remains very highly successful in relative terms of size (as SF produces a huge volume of high tech even compared to alliances 10x as large) I, personally, donÆt see that as the primary constructive success. It surely is a major tractable marker of success. I donÆt want it assumed that I disagree with that; just not the most important part to me. Indeed Star FractionÆs wealth and capabilities are further testaments that blockading and extorting space is both ineffective and not the only rout to success. to me, it is the open mind that holds pride of place in this reguard. Who can say what the exact Butterfly Effect is on a pilotÆs life when when they learn that the use of extortion for access is not the only way. Each of us here have learned the truth that territorial claims are psychological only and any of us who wish to go deep into Delve or Pure Plind or Stain and harvest for ourselves are certainly able to do so with by a modi***of planning. Even to the point of near perfect safety with these new strategic cruisers (of which Star Fraction certainly produces). Territorial claims are not reality once you get beyond the turret fall off of the Goonswarm types, save to those who choose to accept such limitations. Freespace is the reality and Star Fraction is merely fighting to help people see this truth. A truth we all* know to be true. Each of us here can go where we please and avoid the risks others choose to create in their dastardly attempts to impede us. I personally have no qualms with people putting up outposts or stations and ôclaimingö a system for their use. I support co-opts and alliances making the most of the limitless resources of this cluster. I relish the economic juggernaughts that come from cooperative industrial and exploratory efforts that harvest the available stellar bodies. But closed borders are not only wrong, they are an impossible fantasy. Technology has moved beyond guarding the castle walls when we can teleport or phase or simply speed past. The Paradigm has changed. In the end there are a few simple truths: Star Fraction is good for pilots and trade and security, NRDS means safety and isk and access to high tech goods for you and an often comical death for the idiot pirates that plague your space. FreeSpace is good for pilots and trade and security, a wider world experience only heightens the effectiveness of the individual as drones make poor allies. Regressives can not stop any pod pilot who has the will to succeed, so why bend to their whims? Basically...get over the fantasy of total domination and embrace the benefits of evolution.
Jakiin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.11 18:36:00 - [34] Originally by: Jade Constantine I disagree, I believe most of the nationalists worship power. Behind the talk of "greater good", "nationalism", "the people", "the state", "god's will" and whatever other abstraction you want to place on personal servitude there is the essence of power-worship. You believe something is more important than yourself and you believe you can improve your position in the hierarchy of power-worshippers by being a better sychophant and being noticed by those in a superior position. It is true that we believe there to be something more important than ourselves, however the second assertion is on a case-per-case basis: There are some who serve this purpose to get promoted, but there are also many who get promoted because of their service to the purpose. In the most technical sense you are correct: We have generally been told that by showing devotion to the purpose we can expect to advance in rank. However to assume that this is the sole motivator to show devotion to the purpose for all who participate in it is a very simplistic view that does discredit to a great many people. It would be like if I were to assume that you say what you say only for personal power and a good number of loyal followers, and by extension that all who follow you only do what they do in order to advance in whatever ranking system it is you have. That would, however, be arrogant of me. I must assume that you do what you do because you believe in the cause that you serve, otherwise we would never be able to come to any diplomatic conclusion. [Quote]Not while it is being worshipped it isn't. Those above you may be using power as a tool (over you) but in doing so the power itself demands worship from those in the hierarchy. To be free of this mess you cannot be deluding yourself with notions of good or authority beyond yourself and your own personal interests. Ah, so from this definition, allowing anyone to have power over me is to worship power. Forgive me if I have misunderstood (Which I pray I have), but doesn't that just mean that anyone who follows orders from a superior is worshipping power? I think perhaps you have decided to use a hyperbole rather than a more accurate term: Power respect. We respect that the goals we believe in require a structured society to accomplish. [Quote]At this point some examination of actual power-structures may be useful since it is clear we will not find common ground on the discussion of abstractions. That you are actively looking for common ground is a pleasant surprise. [Quote]I'd also counsel you to be a little more thick-skinned on the issue of "personal attacks". I don't recognise ad hominem as a fallacy and I since I'm holding you entirely responsible for your opinions you should expect me to assess your behaviour past and present as a vital factor in the validity of your points. If an idiot makes an excellent argument, than his points are no less valid. On a more related level, the way in which you often define what is a good point or not seems to depend far more on whether you agree with the argument or not than it does how well presented the argument is. This tends to make your replies sound condescending, which makes it difficult for others to respond to your own arguments without painting them all with the arrogant image of you they develop. One thing which you cannot be faulted on is your image being iconic. What it is iconic for, however, is. not often something I think you want it to. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.11 19:07:00 - [35] Edited by: Merdaneth on 11/10/2009 19:11:38 "Nothing matters unless it matters to you." Different things matter to different people. What matters most to a mother might be different than what matters to a CEO of a large firm. What matters most to a soldier is different from a farmer. What matters most to ms. Constantine is freedom of choice. She also perceives this freedom of choice to be most threatened by so-called imperialist powers. Her solution to maximize her freedom of choice is to gain as much power as she can, both in terms of social influence as in terms of cash and military hardware. Ms. Constantine makes it appear that freedom of choice is the natural thing for everyone that is only concerned with their own interest to want. This is not true. For a new mother the continued survival and happiness of her newborn child might matter most, not freedom of choice. Two people in love might voluntarily give up their freedom of having several sexual partners. That is the first fallacy, freedom of choice is not automatically the topmost thing everyone wants when considering what matters most to them. The second fallacy is the fallacy of power. Ms. Constantine strives for power (social, economic and military) as a tool to guarantee her the maximum freedom of choice. This is hardly the only tool available to maximize freedom of choice, let alone the only tool to achieve the 'things that matter to us', since those may be different for everyone. Also, power is also a relative term, for one to be powerful, another needs to be weak. If ms. Constantine boasts about reputation, combat skills or industrial productions, she mentions it in relation to other pod pilots. In short: self-interest = freedom of choice = power is not the only possible progression of desires. As Ms. Constantine sketched in her oration, she once served the imperialist powers. But at some time she heard a dark language: "a language of fear and protectionism, of suspicion and parochialism, a language of warning and terror". Of course, she means this metaphorically, there was no actual language spoken, it was her perception of the state's functioning. Why would she perceive a state's functioning as one of fear and terror? Obviously, since we are speaking about her perception, it is reasonable to assume ms. Constantine was afraid and projected her fear on her surroudings. Afraid of what you ask? Afraid of the state. Afraid that the state would deny her what mattered most to her, freedom of choice. She reacted as only a creature born of fear and terror could: she went about acquiring as much power as she could. She felt threatened by people with more power than her, and her answer was to simply become more powerful than those who threatened her, become so powerful so that rather then her fearing the state, the state would begin to fear her. Might makes right, power makes freedom, that is what she beliefs, and coming from a capsuleer with the power she has, it makes sense. Nonetheless, she has become the mirror-image of the state she feared. Where she once heard a dark language of terror, she now speaks the dark language of terror herself. Might makes right, nothing matters in this universe if it doesn't matters to her. I know, it is enough to make people have Nightmares when someone with the power to call down a Titan's doomsday one your planet is saying it. People also need to realize that while today she is still true to her word, it is only because she isn't so powerful that she can afford to break her word. If she does gain that power she will (must even) brea her word. For she believes anyone who would not break their word when it is to their own self-interest to do so, is unreliable and foolish. I wonder what room there is in ms. Constantine's fear-filled world for something as selfless as love? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.11 19:20:00 - [36] A good indication of how the Amarr Empire handles very powerful people who use their power solely for furthering their self-interest and only doing things that matter to them, I submit to you the following story. The Speaker of Truths The man in this story was a powerful man, one of the most powerful in the Empire, and by extension one of the most powerful in New Eden. He has more wealth, more reputation, more isk and more military hardware at his beck and call than ms. Constantine. Still, he was humbled. Humbled by a man that did not wield vast power, did not have a vast fleet as his command and only few had heard of him. Today, this powerful man has remembered what it means to have power. Having power means one should should be less concerned with self-interest, and more concerned with the interests of the less powerful. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 19:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Merdaneth "Nothing matters unless it matters to you." I wonder what room there is in ms. Constantine's fear-filled world for something as selfless as love? You have answered your own question. The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.11 19:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Merdaneth "Nothing matters unless it matters to you." I wonder what room there is in ms. Constantine's fear-filled world for something as selfless as love? You have answered your own question. You mean to imply that there can be a thing that might trump your search for 'freedom of choice' and for 'power'. You see a possibility in the future you would give these up for love? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 21:58:00 - [39] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 11/10/2009 21:59:28 Originally by: Merdaneth You mean to imply ... cuts off the Amarrian pilot with a dismissive gesture. What I mean I say. You do not get to interpret my words and be heard. If you wish to debate entirely with yourself I suggest you get a room to yourself. The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction
Darina Rea Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2009.10.11 22:25:00 - [40] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Darina Rea Originally by: Jade Constantine We Free Captains are fighting for what we want. You should've stopped there. Perhaps added that your cause is nothing more or less then complete open borders, as you always have. Atleast that's how I always saw the Star Fraction. As I recall you have always struggled to understand the Star Fraction. It seems this continues. I'd encourage you to re-read the opening statement and ask questions about anything you are confused about. Ask for examples, clarification, whatever. Feel free. I'll be happy to end your ignorance if that is what you truly want. Oh, that struggle is as good as finished. I don't agree with the pragmatism of it, but the goal to achieve is pretty clear. If you feel that I continue to misunderstand your explanation after your explanation, it's not just me that fails to catch the point, but you fail aswell to properly and clearly express your point, in equal measure or perhaps more, because you're the one trying to explain something in the first place? Or teach rather, since you're trying to take up the role of enlightened teacher apparently. I'll be happy - and more then able - to understand anything clear. _________ _________ Time is on our side.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:06:00 - [41] Originally by: Darina Rea If you feel that I continue to misunderstand your explanation after your explanation, it's not just me that fails to catch the point, but you fail aswell to properly and clearly express your point, in equal measure or perhaps more, because you're the one trying to explain something in the first place? Or teach rather, since you're trying to take up the role of enlightened teacher apparently. I'll be happy - and more then able - to understand anything clear. If you don't understand something then ask a question. Be my guest. The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.11 23:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Jade Constantine What I mean I say. That is an immutable fact of reality.
Darina Rea Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2009.10.12 00:04:00 - [43] Edited by: Darina Rea on 12/10/2009 00:04:30 Here's a single question. Given this explanation: Originally by: Jade The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. You are free to do whatever is in your power and if you want to increase your power you had better do whatever is in your interest. All that you really value, all the goodness and truth and beauty of life, all the poetry and artful words have their roots in this pragmatism. The crusade matters to the Ammarian crusader. Might makes it possible for him to go on the crusade. He will execute his crusade to the best of his abilities, thus by destroying his enemies, or converting them to his faith, or subjugating them to Amarrian rule. He is doing everything following the definition set, yet he is a follower of True Knowledge. He an Amarrian. The fight for freedom matter to a Minmatar Freedom fighter. Might makes it possible for him to attack the Amarrians. He will try to destroy as much of the Amarrian Empire that's possible, either by outright killing them, bombing planets to the stoneage or by any other means neccesary, yet he is not a follower of True Knowledge. He is a Minmatar. Trade matters to the Caldari and Gallente industrialists. Might makes it possible to prevent their rivals to even get the product to a market nearby, making it thus very profitable to destroy them. So the traders hire mercenaries to kill their rivals. To protect 'their' markets. Neither is a follower of the True Knowledge. They just follow what makes the most profit. There are probably more examples you can think of. Why do you think that capsuleers will end up at this mythical True Knowledge as you see it? _________ _________ Time is on our side.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 01:12:00 - [44] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/10/2009 01:13:17 Originally by: Darina Rea Why do you think that capsuleers will end up at this mythical True Knowledge as you see it? I don't think capsule pilots will end up at a "mythical" True Knowledge at all. There is absolutely nothing mythical about it. The key to the True Knowledge is extremely simple and precisely pragmatic. Do not use the Merdaneth school of word-twisting, it will not serve you here. As for why I believe in the long run most will end up with this understanding? Simple observation and awareness of human nature. Take the most apparently self-abasing religious fanatic in the capsuleer caste of the Amarrian nationalist movement and allow him the freedom to challenge himself and others in battles of wit and deadly war-arts and it doesn't take long before he begins to love the fighting more than his scriptures and counts his pride in achievement and self-belief before his faith in his inherited mythology. The crusader is gone and the man emerges. I have seen this pattern repeated many times. There is a reason why some of the greatest friends and allies of the Star Fraction were once our enemies and deadly foes. Individuals strive and contend against each other to prove their power and hone their skills. The True Knowledge strips away the false illusions of submission to authority figures and statist principle and leaves nothing but the wealth of capable individualism and a future unfettered by the flawed morality of the past. The longer we live the more we come to trust ourselves and our own instincts. Our allies multiply and our enemies wither on the vine. Have you never wondered why the Star Fraction rarely loses wars? Why are we so successful in space combat? In trade? In industry? In everything we accomplish? And then why are our foes such toothless galnet dotards incapable of action in space? Why are those that condemn the Fraction such universally pathetic figures cutting tragic lines of bathos in their self-wallowing pity? The answer is childishly simple: Our ideology wins the friendship of the capable and alienates only the weak. I count amongst my allies the bravest and most capable warriors of the star cluster whereas amongst the ranks of my enemies I see only dogs and cowards. If my words were false surely I'd be humbled and broken not triumphant and unchallenged in battle? This too is a part of the True Knowledge. We choose our friends carefully even as they choose us in return. The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction
Jakiin Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.12 05:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Jade Constantine And then why are our foes such toothless galnet dotards incapable of action in space? Why are those that condemn the Fraction such universally pathetic figures cutting tragic lines of bathos in their self-wallowing pity? My favourite part of Ms. Constantine's work is her tireless efforts against self-delusion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Jade Constantine The True Knowledge of the Star Fraction "Something" Is it that time of year again? I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:35:00 - [47] Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/10/2009 11:35:53 This is unreadable. Next thread posted by JC should be edited by someone from SF. (Now common seriously.) So many funny things i didnt read for a long time. If only 1/8 would be true amarr militia and caldari would be already wasted. Either by simultanous wardecs or solo by SF. Another comedy value was numbers of sold ship. Selling ships to your enemies way to go :) As you cant control the market most of the ships was probably directly sold to the enemies of SF as nearly everyone hates SF. The op shows prime example advanced level of megalomany on alliance level. To get SF in picture without progapaganda we just need to look on their teamwork . How they work together ,how they help each other and what they achieved so far:
Gebher'el Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:37:00 - [48] Edited by: Gebher''el on 12/10/2009 11:37:44 This entire long and boring piece of crap, oops I mean material can be condensed quite easily.. Originally by: Jade Constantine Look at me look at me, I am so important look at me YAWN... Oh that again... Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, God will be a light unto me.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Jakiin My favourite part of Ms. Constantine's work is her tireless efforts against self-delusion. And yet the prediction comes true, here on this very thread we begin to see defeated foes, toothless galnet mockeries and strange shuffling dead-eyed victims of past conflict. Such things are inevitable.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Nur AlHuda To get SF in picture without progapaganda we just need to look on their teamwork . How they work together ,how they help each other and what they achieved so far: Your graph lists the metric of alliance "rank" by numbers of pilots signed up to each entity. Are you really saying you believe the Goonswarm alliance can actually put 5000 pilots in space applied to a task? Or perhaps you do believe that raw numbers of signed up pilots equals power. In either case I pity you Nur AlHuda. You remain quite ignorant. Quality defeats quantity as we've been showing over the last year as around a hundred Free Captains have consistently humiliated the 3000 24th Crusaders in the conflict zone. Your graph might have suggested otherwise but our results in space show the outcome quite clearly. Now then, I'd advise you to go back and read and then come back with questions if you are confused. I'll do my best to enlighten you.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Gebher'el pitiful mewling noises interspaced with misty-eyed begging that quite honestly demeans us both Just don't
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:00:00 - [52] Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/10/2009 12:00:30 Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Nur AlHuda To get SF in picture without progapaganda we just need to look on their teamwork . How they work together ,how they help each other and what they achieved so far: Your graph lists the metric of alliance "rank" by numbers of pilots signed up to each entity. Are you really saying you believe the Goonswarm alliance can actually put 5000 pilots in space applied to a task? Or perhaps you do believe that raw numbers of signed up pilots equals power. In either case I pity you Nur AlHuda. You remain quite ignorant. Quality defeats quantity as we've been showing over the last year as around a hundred Free Captains have consistently humiliated the 3000 24th Crusaders in the conflict zone. Your graph might have suggested otherwise but our results in space show the outcome quite clearly. Now then, I'd advise you to go back and read and then come back with questions if you are confused. I'll do my best to enlighten you. Wrong Jade. The graph shows number of your operations and their success and evaluate overall success. Also SF flies quality ships and setups so yes quality defeats quantity but bad for you it was SF ships that were overrun by quantity of others
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Nur AlHuda Wrong Jade. The graph shows number of your operations and their success and evaluate overall success. In which case its simple nonsense that you made up on the back of a beermat in whatever station we were camping you inside at the time then. Seems I credited you with a little more capacity than you possess. Quote: Also SF flies quality ships and setups so yes quality defeats quantity but bad for you it was SF ships that were overrun by quantity of others In which of your vivid holofantasy suites did this happen in? True Knowledge
Gebher'el Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:16:00 - [54] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Gebher'el pitiful mewling noises interspaced with misty-eyed begging that quite honestly demeans us both Just don't Easiest response to truth as always... BTW the mewling was actually spewing and the misty eye was from the froce of the vomiting. The begging was for the crap fest to end. With that in mind I will now abandon this thread so as tgo no longer feed the media ****... Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, God will be a light unto me.*
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Gebher'el Easiest response to truth as always... Oh I am so sorry. Did misrepresenting your quote offend the clearly well-developed sense of integrity and fair play that led you to well ... misrepresent my quote about five minutes before? Sauce for the goose old fruit. If you want a knife fight don't be surprised when you find a blade in your stomach. Quote: With that in mind I will now abandon this thread so as to no longer feed the media *****... Too easy. True Knowledge
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:19:00 - [56] Nearly everyone knows how to obtain that graph by himself its not that hard. Im just sorry for you that even in light of undeniable evidence you are completly blind. And yes Star Fraction will never die as long as you keep posting. It will just fade and its much worse then death.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:32:00 - [57] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/10/2009 12:32:10 Originally by: Nur AlHuda Nearly everyone knows how to obtain that graph by himself its not that hard. Im just sorry for you that even in light of undeniable evidence you are completly blind. And yes Star Fraction will never die as long as you keep posting. It will just fade and its much worse then death. While Callide Vulpis will glide on angel's wings to the glory of universal achievement and transcending glory I suppose? Really Nur, your comments might have a little more weight if we hadn't crushed you utterly in the first war we fought and scattered your courage to such an extent your couldn't find it again despite your public claims to the contrary. Since you fled from the fighting we've destroyed (roughly) another 300 Crusader ships worth around 25 billion isk. We've continued to crush your one-time allies and rendered the 24th incapable of functioning successfully in heavy-hulled vessels. Your "undeniable evidence" seems a little flawed. But then you Amarrian-nationalists are very good at believing fairy-tales. True Knowledge
Nur AlHuda Amarr Callide Vulpis	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:51:00 - [58] Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 12/10/2009 12:53:47 1. If someone kills t1 ships he is free to doing so as it provides training for people who dont look at local. 2. You never claimed victory. Neither did i couse when we were out you got 2 people in kamela. Almost all our losses happened in empire to newbies. So to the "crushing" we are still active in militia. And your highly emotive op post is result of your rage when you got camped some day ago by one of the militia members and we had very good laugh in militia about it. So keep your fantasies comming as amarr militia is killing your alliance. Ofc i cant forgot Absinth and NoMercy which are the main reason why your alliance has such a bad performance.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Nur AlHuda You never claimed victory. Actually I just did. You were crushed like a dog. Now take your medicine. True Knowledge
Sinjin Mokk Amarr	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:58:00 - [60] Ms Constantine, You make some very interesting points. I admire the wisdom you have gained over the years. However, I highly doubt any of us will be here as we are within a thousand years, let alone a million. Nothing lasts forever and immortality is always illlusory. It is nice to think that we will have such longevity, but I don't think we have the mental capacity to reamin human and be able to process that wealth of information. To be able to store that much experiance would neccesitate a transition to something beyond what is known as post-human (or infomorph or however you wish to call it). Perhaps the vestiges of what we are would survive, but not our humanity. If, as you say, we are immortal, then why bother to engage in the construction of ships, the development of enemies and the attempts to end thier immortality? Something to consider? May God be with you. Pray!

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