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Dirty Wizard
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Posted - 2009.10.19 03:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dirty Wizard on 19/10/2009 03:11:19 So this thread is intended to go straight to CCP and completely bypass the CSMs. The reason: the CSMs are the problem (and I highly doubt they'll bring up the issue of their own failings).
After observing the last three CSM elections and reviewing their performances, it's crystal clear things need to change for the better. The entire CSM process needs to dissolve and be rebuilt in order to function as intended. Currently, it's broken.
Though Larkonis' indiscretions are awful to say the least, the damage to the CSM credibility was IMO much worse.
He may be called an isolated incident and that would be fine if true. Sadly, it isn't. When CSMs like mazzilliu bring up blatant self serving issues like this, it further hurts the CSM credibility. Especially when the player support vote is 3 For / 133 Against (3 For is herself, an alt, and some other guy)
Somehow this "issue", despite receiving less than 1% thread support, made it onto the table with CCP. Isn't the whole purpose of the CSM Process to represent player interests and bringing them to CCP in an intelligent and structured presentation? Can anyone honestly say this CSM is speaking on the players behalf?
Sadly, it gets worse. With the recent CCP fanfest, a CSM Panel was hosted to a near empty room, the video posted on youtube. Look who strolls in late and with poorly chosen words (14:15).
Originally by: mazzilliu Thanks for all your votes. I'm really enjoying my trip to Iceland.
Really? Is this really why she ran for CSM? A free trip to Iceland all expense paid? A simple phrase that's disturbingly insightful into her intentions.
And yes it does get worse. There are alliances ingame who have guaranteed spots on the CSM panel due to their sheer size and voting muscle. Nothing personal Goons, but having multiple guaranteed seats just isn't right. I could point out further failures of the CSM process, but the point has been made.
Ladies and gentlemen, we can do better than this. We, as a playerbase, are not being represented by those whose sole purpose is to represent us.
CCP I implore you. Disband the CSM and restructure so these failings never happen again. Reform the CSM with clear and public guidelines and structure. Define what is expected of them and what their purpose is. Give us the tools to determine which issues the CSMs bring up and which ones they don't.
Form an inside panel to review CSM performance so we can finally be rid of their "sleazy politics". Become more transparent and public with the ongoings of CSMs. We're sick of this shadowy process. We're sick of being left out in the cold.
There may yet still be hope for salvaging this broken CSM process. But we can't do it without your help CCP.
Oh, and I like pie
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Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.19 03:12:00 -
[2]
Yes, some candidates get elected that IMHO do not deserve to be elected. Some of them consider the CSM a joke, and the players are the targets of that joke. However, they do get elected by the players.
Reformatting the CSM won't do anything to help this facet. The fact that Mazz raised the issue in a CSM meeting isn't at all surprising. What is surprising is that the measure passed.
When I was in office, you can see by my history that I raised some issues that didn't get good support, and therefore didn't even bring them up to the CSM. Some of the issues that got a lot of support got shut down by my other delegates. However, this is a democratically-elected council, and this is part and parcel of the tale.
If you think this is wrong, use the power you've been granted by CCP to change it by doing research and voting in people who are responsible. Don't whine about a system that does somewhat work, even if it isn't perfect.
Less than 10% of the playerbase voted last time. We can do better, but that might actually require some *eek* effort from the players. Go to the polls and vote, and encourage friends and corporate members to do the same.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Dirty Wizard
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Posted - 2009.10.19 03:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dirty Wizard on 19/10/2009 03:25:39 First of all, supporting my own thread
Originally by: Bunyip Go to the polls and vote, and encourage friends and corporate members to do the same.
And just for the record, I have voted for candidates whom have shown a lot of initiative towards cleaning up this mess. However they've always been a letdown afterwards.
Even in the last election for CSM3, I voted for someone who later turned out to be a complete asshat. I'm sure someone out there will liken this onto sleazy RL politics, but it doesn't have to be and that's the entire point of the thread.
We can do better than this. __________________________________ Want to help fix the CSM process? Show your support here. |
Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.10.19 03:27:00 -
[4]
Jealous much?
I doubt you want their jobs lets be fair.
Fanfest was awesome thank you.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.19 06:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 19/10/2009 06:10:51
Originally by: Bunyip Yes, some candidates get elected that IMHO do not deserve to be elected. Some of them consider the CSM a joke, and the players are the targets of that joke. However, they do get elected by the players.
Reformatting the CSM won't do anything to help this facet. The fact that Mazz raised the issue in a CSM meeting isn't at all surprising. What is surprising is that the measure passed.
When I was in office, you can see by my history that I raised some issues that didn't get good support, and therefore didn't even bring them up to the CSM. Some of the issues that got a lot of support got shut down by my other delegates. However, this is a democratically-elected council, and this is part and parcel of the tale.
If you think this is wrong, use the power you've been granted by CCP to change it by doing research and voting in people who are responsible. Don't whine about a system that does somewhat work, even if it isn't perfect.
Less than 10% of the playerbase voted last time. We can do better, but that might actually require some *eek* effort from the players. Go to the polls and vote, and encourage friends and corporate members to do the same.
Agreed... but the problem remains none-the-less.
Even If I was to run and (possibly) could pull it off as I have a bit of an ace up my sleeve support wise.
<.<;;;
(Don't look so shocked... just because you hate my guts doesn't mean there's isn't a large contingent of people who do like me : O P )
I don't think its worth the effort or trouble in all honesty.
That should say something to you people... think about that for a bit.
For starters... the CSM has no checksum in place for crap that mazz pulls. One voice against a pile of CSM's who abuse that power is not going to help me whether I'm In it or not.
Secondly... the obvious brick wall of communication is likely NDA's and that's not good for someone (such as myself) who scream in the face of stupidity.
Thirdly... I'm a rather contrary person... people don't like me because I don't hesitate to shine a 100 million candle spotlight in your face if your a moron.
Not likely to win points there... even for the fact that I would never pull the crap mazz did... or lark (which was minor in comparison IMHO which should have cost Lark more than he had to pay but mazz did far worse).
CCP should enforce a strict set of rules concerning the submission of ideas and the process of which they are benched.
And I refuse to accept Mazz's "Pathetic" excuse for why she pushed it forward without proof from CCP itself. None of that NDA bull####.
I would support this proposal under normal circumstances but Bunyip has a valid point.
So I'm torn at the moment... but I agree... there is a serious problem... and it needs to be resolved... pronto.
IF they can bring any idea to the front of the list with minimal to ZERO public support... the CSM should likely be shut down and scrapped to be replaced by something with a little more accountability than it has today.
Not an easy thing to fix to be sure.
This is supposed to be (I REALLY HATE USING THIS WORD) Democratic process in which people bring forth ideas... they are critiqued... tested... and then the CSM votes those things that are popular.
But this is nothing.... the CSM are praticually dictators who agree to cooperate and vote on things.... we are just the peanut gallery who have no sway or control over the situation.
They choose to listen or to ignore... or laugh at us.
That's not how this is supposed to work...
If CCP intended to push this forward they would have never have bothered with the CSM in the FIRST PLACE. They would bypass them entirely... after all they are in charge and at large.
So all it comes down to is this... if the CSM is really who they are... then who do they answer to?
Sure as hell ain't us. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Gone'Postal
Naviworks Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.19 06:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Gone''Postal on 19/10/2009 06:26:50 According to a GM who likes to sleep in odd places.
"There is no fixed number of votes required, the CSM decides which issues is being given priority."
So they could just ignore this forum and bring issues to CCP that they dream up the day before.
Which makes voting a waste of time for players IF the CSM members want to ignore it as some do.
Supported BUT good luck getting the CSM to raise this one.
Originally by: Rells
Without the carebears, the economy would be dead.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 06:36:00 -
[7]
All I hear is bawwwwww
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.10.19 06:52:00 -
[8]
I get that you're ****ed. For that matter, I agree with some of the reasons. Mazz's issue was largely idiotic, as I said in my reply to it, and the fact that the CSM passed it flabbergasts me(though to be fair, 3/136 is 2%, not 1%). I would never have voted for it myself. I like a lot of what Mazz has to say, and I think she gets a bad rap sometimes for being too sarcastic, like in that quote, but she's far from an ideal CSM.
That said, this is how democracy works. You elect fools, you elect slackers, you elect people most interested in lining their pockets, and you elect people who have grand visions and never deliver on them(and no, I am not referring to anyone in particular with any of those). Democracy is not perfect, and it won't be perfect until every candidate's innermost thoughts are known to the voters, and every voter is an expert on every issue. Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath on either of those.
The problem here isn't the democracy though - it's that you're expecting too much of it. You're making the perfect the enemy of the good. And yes, the CSM we have is a good thing, warts and all. Yeah, you elect Lark and watch him self-destruct, or you elect...well, most of them have proposed a silly issue or two, so I won't even single out Mazz. You also elect the body that finally managed to kick CCP's ass hard enough to make them realize the skill queue we'd been screaming for six years was something that we really did want. The CSM provides a good cross-section of the players, and they have enough weight behind themselves to make CCP listen to the will of the players as best our representatives can advance it.
I'm not going to mess around with that system just because you think you can do better with the next set of rules. You can't - this is what democracy always looks like. There's a reason Churchill called it the worst system except for all the others. It is, but I wouldn't give it up for the world.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.10.19 09:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 19/10/2009 09:04:44
Originally by: Cheekything Jealous much?
I doubt you want their jobs lets be fair.
Fanfest was awesome thank you.
Realy ? But they wrote the truth. CSM a joke. Most of CSM members elected from alliance mail from 0.0 corps. Binding vote it's not so fair against other candidates.
Need an other solution for vote. Maybe a popup window in Eve when starting the client before the next election will be started and maybe CCP will be get better result as 10% of Eve players.
And other things because the whole CSM is 0.0 players, most of problem focused just to 0.0 Cry for cloak,cry for cloak MWD etc,logoffsky and about them does not change nothing.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Drone_improvements Just look out this. This is just one of many things. Voted almost one years ago. Changed anyone ? No.
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Sargeant Bash
The-Secret-Service
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Posted - 2009.10.19 10:19:00 -
[10]
Personally the CSM has been utter failure since it started IMO. Its all about who gets most votes and egos, well if your in a large alliance then of course your going to win. Its about personal preferences for those alliances not for the good of the whole of eve and thats was what it was supposed to be. maybe thats what CCP intended it to be, as the majority of players going to use the full depth of the game are the large alliances? Maybe...
Remember your supposed to be the voice of all players of eve, I saw one thread that because CCP decided not to answer or give suggestions to a problem they closed it! Keh? Your supposed to push CCP on matters and get an answer, again that was the point of CSM, otherwise whats the point!?
However CSM was supposed to be that conduit between player and CCP, really i hear nothing, and you only see stuff if you go look for it.
Something needs to change big time, so supported..I think at least change it so that you must of played eve for at least 3 years to apply!. and the people voted just dont know how to work as real stakeholders and drive issues through.
Maybe CCP need to hire a set of independants, but there again if they not going to listen to CSM then they aint going to listen to anyone.
Any perhaps thats the real problem CCP not coming to their side of the bargain?..
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 10:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dianeces on 19/10/2009 10:43:50
Originally by: Hun Jakuza [Because the whole CSM is 0.0 players, most of problems focused just to 0.0
You're absolutely right. Everyone on the CSM represents 0.0 interests. Especially the E-Uni dude, and that Erik dude who is a carebear, and....owait~
Edit: As for the figure saying that 133 people disagreed with mazz's issue: that's disingenuous at best, and completely dishonest at worst. There's a group of about six or seven posters who represent the vast majority of posts in that thread. They don't get multiple votes. Go count the number of people who posted in the thread, rather than the posts, before trying to analyze the support it got.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.10.19 10:53:00 -
[12]
Posting to vote support.
I think those who have been following these things have an idea of my views on the matters.
Apart from that I do object to one point raised by the OP: Thread support. It should not really be a criteria or requirement, in deciding whether something gets raised or not. Does anyone even read the first post of every thread in assembly hall? It's like being forced to read the features and ideas section. So, lack of threadsupport is no acceptable reason to drop something. Otoh, a lot of support can be mustered simply by certain people telling their pleebs to go vote it. Not it those exact words, but it does not take all that much, due to the lack of attention these things generally get, to make it look like a lot of support, compared to the majority of things. Therefore, drop the notion that thread support (=thumbcount) should matter, it is not realistic with the current level of participation by the general population.
btw, I would like to point out that the CSM minutes from the last meeting with CCP is still missing from the official page: http://www.eveonline.com/council/voting/transcripts.asp We asked for them nicely at first, and then not so nicely since we didn't get them. We still do not have them. That says a lot.
That + the OP + a number of other things speak for a serious rethink, rather just pushing forward as-is without some changes and cutting through the BS in and from the CSM delegates, which rather obviously is present in abundance. No offense Xhagen, but you need to set some people straight or it will decay further.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.10.19 11:05:00 -
[13]
Forgot the thumb.
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RedSplat
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.10.19 11:07:00 -
[14]
She Be Rollin'
You Hatin'
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.10.19 11:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 19/10/2009 11:35:50
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Hun Jakuza [Because the whole CSM is 0.0 players, most of problems focused just to 0.0
You're absolutely right. Everyone on the CSM represents 0.0 interests. Especially the E-Uni dude, and that Erik dude who is a carebear, and....owait~
Edit: As for the figure saying that 133 people disagreed with mazz's issue: that's disingenuous at best, and completely dishonest at worst. There's a group of about six or seven posters who represent the vast majority of posts in that thread. They don't get multiple votes. Go count the number of people who posted in the thread, rather than the posts, before trying to analyze the support it got.
Blabla and far away from truth.
Vuk Lau (high sec carebear realy) Morsus Mihi mazzilliu (high sec carebear realy) Pandemic Legion Zastrow (high sec carebear realy) Goon Avalloc (high sec carebear realy) Goon
You want to more ?
They dont like the dirty/tricky plays ? They do it always. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=692
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 12:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 19/10/2009 11:35:50
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: Hun Jakuza [Because the whole CSM is 0.0 players, most of problems focused just to 0.0
You're absolutely right. Everyone on the CSM represents 0.0 interests. Especially the E-Uni dude, and that Erik dude who is a carebear, and....owait~
Edit: As for the figure saying that 133 people disagreed with mazz's issue: that's disingenuous at best, and completely dishonest at worst. There's a group of about six or seven posters who represent the vast majority of posts in that thread. They don't get multiple votes. Go count the number of people who posted in the thread, rather than the posts, before trying to analyze the support it got.
Blabla and far away from truth.
Vuk Lau (high sec carebear realy) Morsus Mihi mazzilliu (high sec carebear realy) Pandemic Legion Zastrow (high sec carebear realy) Goon Avalloc (high sec carebear realy) Goon
You want to more ?
They dont like the dirty/tricky plays ? They do it always. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=692
Ahahahahaha.
u mad~
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.19 14:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard Look who strolls in late and with poorly chosen words (14:15).
Originally by: mazzilliu Thanks for all your votes. I'm really enjoying my trip to Iceland.
Really? Is this really why she ran for CSM? A free trip to Iceland all expense paid? A simple phrase that's disturbingly insightful into her intentions.
You weren't the only one that cringed at that comment.
There was no further input from that end of the table after that.
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mazzilliu
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 14:27:00 -
[18]
to add to your nerd rage and list of my indiscretions, i raised this issue with ZERO supports and even zero posts! thats like, even less support then my term limits issue. I didnt even post to support it myself. you should probably make a youtube video or something about it.
if you want to audit the performance of the CSM, you can do it right here from the comfort of your own computer chair. plenty of the issues on that list were raised by me, some of which were extremely popular issues. youll probably ignore the full list of what we've actually done and keep complaining about how we don't represent da people or something like that, though. and i can totally understand that, everyone has a right to cry on eve-o for very little good reason.
re: the CSM panel- well im glad i accomplished at least one thing there by trolling you people IRL. the entire CSM panel was us answering a small handful of questions for an hour. almost all of it was stuff you can look up. fanfest is for parties, our actual work as the CSM was in private and all held early on the first day. i attended all of that.
also, CCP don't read the assembly hall forums. but i'll save this thread so i can show it to my voting base next re-election. for some reason they like it when eveo posters get trolled and cry on the forums about it, especially when it's for pretty much no good reason. this will get me more votes next time around.
supported for trolling (a half dozen of)the assembly hall posters
signed,(kisses and hugs) the most diplomatic diplomat in PL and a real girl in real life- mazzilliu
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Blabla and far away from truth.
Vuk Lau (high sec carebear realy) Morsus Mihi mazzilliu (high sec carebear realy) Pandemic Legion Zastrow (high sec carebear realy) Goon Avalloc (high sec carebear realy) Goon
You want to more ?
They dont like the dirty/tricky plays ? They do it always. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=692
this post is disappointing it doesnt even contain scandal involving the people you listed. larkonis has no big alliance backing him.
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.10.19 14:33:00 -
[19]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 19/10/2009 14:38:22
Originally by: Dianeces
Ahahahahaha.
u mad~
Actually, yes, quite a few of us are, indeed, angry about the situation. Although, to be honest, I'm more irritated about Mazz's flagrant abuse of her power than I am about Larkonisgate.
The CSM is a lot like a communist state -- it looks great on paper. Once you get real people involved, however, it rapidly goes to ****, because (most) people are inherently selfish and out to line their own pockets. It's just how we're built - evolution ftw.
What's really needed are two things: 1. Increase the vote count. The reason these lare alliances keep getting their members on the council is because they poke and prod their members to vote. We need to get a similar movement out among the non-alliance players - push the idea that they need to get out and vote. At least then if they win, they'll have earned it instead of walking into the spot.
2. Increase oversitgh of the council from the player side. Part of the issue is that once elected, a CSM member has no incentive to do anything they promised to do except actually show up to meetings. As my dad would say, they have no skin in the game, and thus can pretty much do what they want, as long as they don't incur the wrath of CCP. If anything, they are beholden to their alliances/corps pretty much because they're the people that will make their lives the most miserable if they don't push their agenda.
@the OP: If you'd posted this a month ago, I'd have back it with every thumb I could muster. I've come to the realization since then that the CSM can probably be saved, but only if we get more players involved.
Edit: Mazz snuck in a post on me while I was writing this. Screw it, disband them. No more free trips to anywhere for anyone. If the members of the CSM themselves are going to treat the position like a joke, dump it. I'd rather CCP spent my subscription money on new hardware than sending asshats like Mazz to Iceland so she can be an attention ***** in RL as well as pixel land. --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 14:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Dianeces
Ahahahahaha.
u mad~
Actually, yes, quite a few of us are, indeed, angry about the situation. Although, to be honest, I'm more irritated about Mazz's flagrant abuse of her power than I am about Larkonisgate.
The CSM is a lot like a communist state -- it looks great on paper. Once you get real people involved, however, it rapidly goes to ****, because (most) people are inherently selfish and out to line their own pockets. It's just how we're built - evolution ftw.
What's really needed are two things: 1. Increase the vote count. The reason these lare alliances keep getting their members on the council is because they poke and prod their members to vote. We need to get a similar movement out among the non-alliance players - push the idea that they need to get out and vote. At least then if they win, they'll have earned it instead of walking into the spot.
2. Increase oversitgh of the council from the player side. Part of the issue is that once elected, a CSM member has no incentive to do anything they promised to do except actually show up to meetings. As my dad would say, they have no skin in the game, and thus can pretty much do what they want, as long as they don't incur the wrath of CCP. If anything, they are beholden to their alliances/corps pretty much because they're the people that will make their lives the most miserable if they don't push their agenda.
@the OP: If you'd posted this a month ago, I'd have back it with every thumb I could muster. I've come to the realization since then that the CSM can probably be saved, but only if we get more players involved.
haha, a dozen of you are mad more like.
the function of the csm has always been for people to raise issues to CCP to improve the game. we still do that just fine, and ccp seem pretty happy with the count and quality of issues raised so far. you (dozen)guys act like we are stealing money from da people or some terrible crime. its pretty funny
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:01:00 -
[21]
BTW Need clear and clean rules.
First: "Supported" and "Not Supported" button for this forum.
Second: When an Idea reach a minimum supporter count and reached over 50%+1vote must be move to CSM vote. (100-200-300 or other numbers; find out)
Players controlled CSM - CSM controlled CCP
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Nuts Nougat
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:04:00 -
[22]
Agreed, CSM process needs to change. There's not enough awesome people like mazzilliu on it.
Fake edit: first page in this epic threadnought. ---
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Grouchy Smurf
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Grouchy Smurf on 19/10/2009 15:12:39
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Players controlled CSM - CSM controlled CCP
And then we move to Communism?
Real edit: it won't be a threadnought, it will be a failure.
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Romale
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:14:00 -
[24]
I wish to make my campaign promise for when i run for csm right now: i will not rest until the true dream of Mazzilliu being the only person on the csm is achieved. today the CSM, tomorrow CCP!
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Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Tradesman Mcgee on 19/10/2009 15:15:17 "Supporting my own thread"
These highsec carebear tears are pretty sweet. Run for CSM yourself, and stop crying like a little girl. Nothing stop you from launching a campaign, travel around in Eve and copy and paste your campaign website etc, but I guess its less effort posting whine posts on a forum? -------------------------- Insert signature. |
Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grouchy Smurf Edited by: Grouchy Smurf on 19/10/2009 15:12:39
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Players controlled CSM - CSM controlled CCP
And then we move to Communism?
Real edit: it won't be a threadnought, it will be a failure.
Failpost This named to democracy. everybody depends on each other and supervises each other
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Tomic
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Tomic on 19/10/2009 15:21:08
Originally by: Grouchy Smurf And then we move to Communism?
Hey, it's good enough for china
fake fake edit: This is truely going to be an epic threadnaught.
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App Rentoo
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:31:00 -
[28]
Cry more? <3 ---------------------------------------------- Caldari State corp standing services.
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.19 15:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 19/10/2009 15:34:33
Originally by: Tomic Edited by: Tomic on 19/10/2009 15:21:08
Originally by: Grouchy Smurf And then we move to Communism?
Hey, it's good enough for china
fake fake edit: This is truely going to be an epic threadnaught.
So pathetic. You need more ally member from ventrilo or from corp channel. Just yell there, my CSM lover cries and need help in eve.com. Alts and members go to defend :D
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Ernest Borgnine
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Posted - 2009.10.19 16:04:00 -
[30]
I too, think this CSM is nothing but a sham and a fraud.
It goes against every principle of Democracy that *goons* of all people should be allowed to be voted in and the fact there's even representatives from PL just goes to show how broken the system is. CCP should ban them all.
Much like the OP Dirty Wizard, I too believe that the CSM would be much better if it were comprised solely from members of the other side of Eve 0.0 politics.
I also support where Dirty Wizard is going with his idea. Representatives should be that. Solely Representatives. During their term in the CSM all members should have their ingame accounts frozen to prevent distraction from their duties. They should also be taken to Iceland and kept in solitary confinement to prevent being conataminated with bias from human interraction on the matters that they are currently considering. The facility should be known as "The Box". Once accepted onto the CSM they should be immediately flown out to Iceland and placed in "The Box". Relevent reading material can be passed via a dumb waiter, as well as the necessary foods and liquids. This allows the representative to work for the people without interference or distraction until their term comes to an end and they are released from "The Box". Early release from "The Box" should not be an option except in obvious cases of medical emergency or death.
I believe "The Box" will allow the CSM to act more fluidly in considering matters of extreme importance in the Eve-Universe and put to bed claims of bias.
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