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Why a shield myrmidon sucks for gang pvp

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Asuka Smith Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.10.22 03:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Chunky Milk Edited by: Chunky Milk on 22/10/2009 03:30:46 meant rep bonus =/ 56k Isn't much of a buffer tbh - Anyway the OP quiet clearly isn't talking of gank fits. Referring back to the other thread - Its talking of a general fully tanked myrm for use in roaming fleets. And there are people out there that think that its fine. They also think it's fine to have 0 tackle - There general response is "But tacklers should be tackling" edit: I won't lie, that myrm looks nice ^^ Can it fit Heavy Pulse lasers on there and get similiar results? The range would be nice - 56k is on par with a standard Harbinger or Hurricane, and obviously is worse than the drake but also offers dramatically superior DPS.
Chunky Milk	Posted - 2009.10.22 03:42:00 - [32] Anyone else hate seeing ships without some sought of tackle? Besides - having tackle as i showed has many more uses then to actually hold your target. * Be aware btw my OP was against super tanked myrms with no tackle, absolute gank myrms do have a place in gangs, however saying that - Tackle is always nice to have* Especially in low sec gangs*** Question though - wouldn't you get a similar result from simply running two EAM'S and a DMG control - Freeing up the other mid slots? If you really wanted - for absolute gank fit - Could always run 2 shield mods in mids - 2 eams in lows. Meh if your going for outright EHP anyway.... Lets you still use the other 3 mids for tackle, mwd cap booster -
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.22 03:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Chunky Milk Anyone else hate seeing ships without some sought of tackle? Besides - having tackle as i showed has many more uses then to actually hold your target. * Be aware btw my OP was against super tanked myrms with no tackle, absolute gank myrms do have a place in gangs, however saying that - Tackle is always nice to have* Especially in low sec gangs* Question though - wouldn't you get a similar result from simply running two EAM'S and a DMG control - Freeing up the other mid slots? If you really wanted - for absolute gank fit - Could always run 2 shield mods in mids - 2 eams in lows. Meh if your going for outright EHP anyway.... Lets you still use the other 3 mids for tackle, mwd cap booster - Eanms without a plate do approximately nothing. You'd be much better off fitting a tracking enhancers or nano in those lows. Originally by:** CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 03:52:00 - [34] Honestly the whole align time argument is meh! the diffrence in damage compared to the larger increase in ehp is somthing to pay attention to. Speed could be somthing that may be lacking but with no cap to run MWD then you can jsut throw arguments of speed out the window, because without cap you cant run an MWD. 72k/EHP 875/msec 690/dps 10.8/Align time - 14.2 with mwd active Myrmidon 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.10.22 04:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 22/10/2009 03:23:40 [Myrmidon, NanoShield Neutron] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x2 Ogre II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Berserker II x2 Valkyrie II x2 Warrior II x1 796 DPS, 56k EHP with 54% EM resistance being the lowest, and a 6.5 second align time. 1.35km/s speed. hmm looks like a shield tanked myrm with a mwd and a scram I thought shield myrms dint have that from the op
Chunky Milk	Posted - 2009.10.22 04:42:00 - [36] Funny coz op was talking about passive tanked mryms as per the other thread that's around with 9 pages of people supporting it for pvp
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.22 05:03:00 - [37] Edited by: abrasive soap on 22/10/2009 05:05:58 Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 22/10/2009 03:23:40 [Myrmidon, NanoShield Neutron] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Hammerhead II x2 Ogre II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Berserker II x2 Valkyrie II x2 Warrior II x1 796 DPS, 56k EHP with 54% EM resistance being the lowest, and a 6.5 second align time. 1.35km/s speed. cool fit bro, totally won't die to a harbinger or hurricane (not serious) also, if you are going to use shield tanks and just not use the bonuses why not get a brutix and do more damage with a slightly lesser tank which is totally irrelevant either way as both are slow Quote: 56k is on par with a standard Harbinger or Hurricane, and obviously is worse than the drake but also offers dramatically superior DPS at less than a quarter of the range and less speed. FYP
Chunky Milk	Posted - 2009.10.22 05:06:00 - [38] Well yeh that's the thing. As it has no web so other ships won't find it hard to keep out of blaster range & meh
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.22 05:23:00 - [39] Originally by: abrasive soap cool fit bro, totally won't die to a harbinger or hurricane (not serious) also, if you are going to use shield tanks and just not use the bonuses why not get a brutix and do more damage with a slightly lesser tank which is totally irrelevant either way as both are slow Which is why I maintain that the only good way to fit a myrm is with lazorz. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.10.22 05:35:00 - [40] Originally by: abrasive soap also, if you are going to use shield tanks and just not use the bonuses why not get a brutix and do more damage with a slightly lesser tank which is totally irrelevant either way as both are slow Could think of a few reasons, for example the Brutix being one of the first ships to be called primary. The dps difference isnt that great even (64 dps for his fitting compared to the standard shield gank Brutix), in medium sized gangs the myrm might just come out on top as it has more drone dps that gets on target faster, and it is also faster to get in blaster range. Having said that, there is certainly room to improve that fit, its not terribly hard to come up with a shield buffer myrm that absolutely wipes the floor with a shield brutix.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.10.22 05:59:00 - [41] The (poor) assumption here is that you actually *want* to be within web/scram range. Since the best small gang ships are designed to fight at 15-25km or more, this means webs and scrams are irrelevant. All you need is a MWD and 24k point, which leaves mids for shield buffer and your lows for damage mods. Now, granted, the Myrmidon is still a pretty poor ship compared to the similarly-fit Drake/Harbinger/Hurricane, but the armor tanked web/scram version is even worse. -----------
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.22 09:23:00 - [42] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/10/2009 09:24:48 Wait, a lot of theorycrafting how a ship with MWD, and scrambler/disruptor (and web if you like), with 3-4 damage mods, is more useful then a armour tank because a armour tank has MWD (and is muuuuch slower), scrambler/disruptor and web? Interesting. Plus, in a gang you're best off fitting lazorz on it. Please report how HPL IIs and 3 HS fit on your armour tank. I bet it does not go well. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
kyrv	Posted - 2009.10.22 09:54:00 - [43] Edited by: kyrv on 22/10/2009 09:55:56 You have outlined every part of a typical battlecruiser, it gets out shunned by the fast the elite 3x more expensive ship but what always draw my attention is if they mess up, if.. you can win horribly ok this never happens.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.10.22 09:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Eseay on another note, the shield cane works very well :) This is true. Myrmidon and Harby, it doesn't though.
Moonshadoe Caldari Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.10.22 10:37:00 - [45] My .02 I intend on flying this in small gangs. 6x Neutron II's CN Antimatter/Null T2 MWD Best named Scram 2x best named LSE T2 Invuln T2 DCU 3x T2 MFS 2x T2 PDU 2x field extenders 1x EM field 2x Ogre 2's 2x Hammer 2's Hobgob 2 5x warrior 2's 5x vespa EC-600's I'll probably have a basi/scim backup as well but it gets 800+ DPS no problem and has decent EHP. Think it has a 100 passive recharge rating also. Best named for CPU. All depends on what you can fit really... I can't use lazors or minnie guns.
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.10.22 10:40:00 - [46] The reason the HP Shield tanked Myrmidon is superior to the Brutix is because a Brutix will allways be primary over most ships, especially a Myrmidon
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.10.22 12:04:00 - [47] Who is this directed at? I fly a shield myrm and it has a point and a MWD. What mythical fit is this directed towards?
Beltantis Torrence NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.10.22 12:10:00 - [48] Originally by: Chunky Milk Edited by: Chunky Milk on 22/10/2009 03:30:46 meant rep bonus =/ 56k Isn't much of a buffer tbh - Anyway the OP quiet clearly isn't talking of gank fits. Referring back to the other thread - Its talking of a general fully tanked myrm for use in roaming fleets. And there are people out there that think that its fine. They also think it's fine to have 0 tackle - There general response is "But tacklers should be tackling" edit: I won't lie, that myrm looks nice ^^ Can it fit Heavy Pulse lasers on there and get similiar results? The range would be nice - Any fight where a 56k buffer is erased almost immediately you probably shouldn't be flying BC's anyway. Or you should have logistics or more ECM (either or). Anything over 40k is fine for a gank fit BC for most small roaming gangs.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.10.22 13:19:00 - [49] If you don't fit an MWD and scram on your shield myrm your doing it wrong. The shield myrm is just as viable as any other shield tanked gank boat. It is also better than the plated version as it aligns faster, moves faster, has more dps at only slightly less tank and a myrm is rarely called primary so it has time to unload it 800ish dps. Kazang
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.22 14:48:00 - [50] Holy moly. So many incompetent posters in this thread. Gank Myrm is awesome, people who say "it's meant to active armor tank oh my god ffs~~~~" are truly terrible at PvP. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:02:00 - [51] Edited by: Proxyyyy on 22/10/2009 15:04:45 Originally by: Count MonteCarlo The reason the HP Shield tanked Myrmidon is superior to the Brutix is because a Brutix will allways be primary over most ships, especially a Myrmidon I agree a little, but Lets be honest here... Blaster boats and Ac ships to lesser extent are throw away ships in fleets period. There uses are as heavy tackle/dps that is what they excel at and nothing else. The myrm on the other hand has more options but is still a blaster boat just with more drones. When i do join large fleet engagments i fly a "HML/Drake" around 50- 70 k off the center of the engagments. I tend to ignor most of what an fc is blabbering about and go after soft targets mostly support at these ranges. I tend to consider lesser pilots "canon fodder" and even the more ****ed ones in Drake/Harbinger that just sit and who are never mobile like **s. But if not for them taking fire and having things tackled i wouldnt have things ti shoot at a safe distance... THIS IS EXAMPLE IS MENT FOR LARGE FLEETS NOT SMALL GANG, THERE I CANNOT ALWAYS DO THE SAME. YOUR ACTIONS TEND TO BE MORE IMPORTANT ON THIS LEVEL AND FIRE MUST BE FOCUSED BECAUSE OF LIMITED NUMBERS> Originally by:** Merin Ryskin The (poor) assumption here is that you actually *want* to be within web/scram range. Since the best small gang ships are designed to fight at 15-25km or more, this means webs and scrams are irrelevant. All you need is a MWD and 24k point, which leaves mids for shield buffer and your lows for damage mods. Now, granted, the Myrmidon is still a pretty poor ship compared to the similarly-fit Drake/Harbinger/Hurricane, but the armor tanked web/scram version is even worse.[/quote I honestly dont get what your talking about? Even i know that if everyone piloted like i did in a fleet then nothing will be held down for me to shoot, targets would just disengage unless they can catch ships that are faster than them. Also your random assumption that all good small gang engagements are high speed and no one is trying to tackle anyone, and just orbiting each other at 15-24k is laughable. While general engagements are between 0 - 24k/point range you must always be trying to fully tackle your opponents. PEOPLE TEND TO RUN WHEN THEY ARE OUT CLASSED. Infact yesterday i was roaming low sec in a rupture, and saw this red vagabond pilot off gate 15k away. Hell i may kill him if i could catch the fool right? so i uncloak and break for him, while thorwing up scans. Got a point on his ass but wasnt quick enough to get a web, at this point we are 60k off gate and a bringer and 4 cruisers are on scan = ) The binger was first to land 15k ahead of me. what was funny is that the (harbinger) was shield tanked must have been? dude was going faster than me and caught up to me like 5k off thought i was screwed. I already broke for the gate and was 30k from it, the crusers where to far out they warped on the vaga pilots last postion. Only thing on me at this point was the binger and vaga. So im mwding no tackle on me at the back and even around the regional gate hoping it would slow down anyone of them. In this case the bringer slowed down and i got a good 30k from him when my cap **ed. waited out the timer and jumped in "25% amor" Conclusion drawn from this is that the harbinger failed no? if he had full tackle fitted i would have been **ed and at no point in this engagment did i overheat(mwd)which was fail on my part. In small gangs if everyone fitted for speed nothing would be held, and since most engagments are off gates and to a lesser extent stations. put 2 and 2 together I have null sec examples that are similar. The fail in null sec is "beyond garbage" that harby fit i would expect of pilots there not in low sec. The point im making is ships intended for armor tanks benefit from free midslots ment to disable opponents. by no means am i suggesting that these shield/buffer fits dont have there place, but heavy tackle is a must.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:06:00 - [52] Wow, what a terrible post. Gee you're so smart who needs to listen to the fc. And learn to quote ffs. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wow, what a terrible post. Gee you're so smart who needs to listen to the fc. And learn to quote ffs. Me apparently since i dont need a fleet to destroy things = / YEAH SOMTHING MESSED UP AND I COULDNT FIX IT< KEPT ON DELETING EVERYTHING I WROTE TO I LEFT IT>>>
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:16:00 - [54] Originally by: Proxyyyy Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wow, what a terrible post. Gee you're so smart who needs to listen to the fc. And learn to quote ffs. Me apparently since i dont need a fleet to destroy things = / YEAH SOMTHING MESSED UP AND I COULDNT FIX IT< KEPT ON DELETING EVERYTHING I WROTE TO I LEFT IT>>> Please continue to explain why ignoring your fc is a good thing. You're really going places. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:20:00 - [55] Proxyyyy, stop posting. You're digging a big hole for yourself. Everything you post shows how really stupid you are. :( _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:41:00 - [56] Well since preformance is a measurement of success then yeah im doing fine. Mind you i stated taht "i tend to ignore an fc" so not always and also since i fc from time to time im aware of the downsides of people not listening or ignoring the targets being called. But most people in eve cant pvp they jsut know how to listen to the orders of an fc telling them which buttons to press basically. So cannon fodder is how i view them and in most cases once i catch there btch @$sses from there fleet threw baiting tactics pulling them away from the others like coming in at 70k pulling fast tackle towards me ganking there ******ed asses then leaving or let them chase me into large systems where warping to save a fleet memeber is like 74Au. "Robots realy, that i dont consider good pilots" back on topic; Shield buffer mryms have there place but are not the uber end all fit for the mrym.
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:49:00 - [57] Shield buffered Myrms can be good, you just shouldn't use all its mid slots for tank. That's a selfish thing to do in a fleet fight ;) 1 or 2 LSEs with an invul will do, that way you get a MWD, point and scram. Lows should not have any SPRs, PDUs in conjunction with a DC and mag stabs would be my choice. Neutrons in highs.
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.10.22 15:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Proxyyyy Well since preformance is a measurement of success then yeah im doing fine. Mind you i stated taht "i tend to ignore an fc" so not always and also since i fc from time to time im aware of the downsides of people not listening or ignoring the targets being called. But most people in eve cant pvp they jsut know how to listen to the orders of an fc telling them which buttons to press basically. So cannon fodder is how i view them and in most cases once i catch there btch @$sses from there fleet threw baiting tactics pulling them away from the others like coming in at 70k pulling fast tackle towards me ganking there ******ed asses then leaving or let them chase me into large systems where warping to save a fleet memeber is like 74Au. "Robots realy, that i dont consider good pilots" back on topic; Shield buffer mryms have there place but are not the uber end all fit for the mrym. Oh...wow. How is the fact that "performance is a measurement of success" in any way proof of you doing well? Your stats are horrible. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 16:09:00 - [59] Let me guess 95% of this characters kills being solo kills is bad? also even the best pilots in eve die alot sir ganks happen. The facted that this character and my others die only to stacked odds is somehow bad? Many of my fights large portion of them are always outnumbered and with me ****ing around with larger fleets v 1. Which is what i enjoy i like being outnumbered and if you are not aware thats what solo pvp in eve is these days well wahtever. im not sure why your chating to me like you know me and telling me when and when not to talk like your my gf but you need to chill = / Go out as much as i do, then get back to me otherwise im guessing your jsut one of thoughs tryna get top damage dudes, or i have higher kb points guys just another drone talking the like you word is uber over everyone elses. Hell you will never see my state that any fits are fail, jsut weird because i know more than most that anything in pvp can happen its that dynamic and what i like about it"FLAME OFF" yeah Neuronai you are right dude and it sounds harsh, but alot of good pilots do it atleast in large fleets. Like i said when im in a smaller gang i cant do it and it would not be wise if i flew like that, and in moost cases if im in a small gang its with my in-game bro's. And i agree with you Neuronai on the mrym part...
Proxyyyy Caldari initial.	Posted - 2009.10.22 16:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Suas Originally by: Proxyyyy Well since preformance is a measurement of success then yeah im doing fine. Mind you i stated taht "i tend to ignore an fc" so not always and also since i fc from time to time im aware of the downsides of people not listening or ignoring the targets being called. But most people in eve cant pvp they jsut know how to listen to the orders of an fc telling them which buttons to press basically. So cannon fodder is how i view them and in most cases once i catch there btch @$sses from there fleet threw baiting tactics pulling them away from the others like coming in at 70k pulling fast tackle towards me ganking there ******ed asses then leaving or let them chase me into large systems where warping to save a fleet memeber is like 74Au. "Robots realy, that i dont consider good pilots" back on topic; Shield buffer mryms have there place but are not the uber end all fit for the mrym. Oh...wow. How is the fact that "performance is a measurement of success" in any way proof of you doing well? Your stats are horrible. Anyways lets leave this chatter to the forums ill pm you in game and we will go out on a roam. Since we are getting to know each other so well, i find it better to jsut fly with a person rather than hear them talk about stuff they can or cant do. MIGHT BE FUN = )

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