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Adacia Calla
Minmatar
1st Steps Academy
Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.28 01:58:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Stuart Price
Edited by: Stuart Price on 28/10/2009 00:58:49
They all need their fourth bonus, tied to AF skill:
Harpy: +5% shield resistances per level
Hawk: +10% explosion velocity per level (+change the damage bonus to match the Kestrel)
Enyo: +10% falloff per level (oops, forgot it already had a tracking bonus)
Ishkur: +10% drone optimal/tracking OR maybe speed (both MWD and orbit) per level (I'm loathe to give them the usual HP/damage bonus)
Retribution: +5% RoF per level
Vengeance: +10% flight time per level (Vengeance has a bloody odd bonus combination to start with)
Wolf and Jag I've never flown, but some form of agility/sig/speed based bonus maybe?
Also: Fix rockets. A LOT of frigates would become very, very viable indeed with rockets fixed.
With a fourth bonus in place, I'm not sure AF's would NEED a role bonus.
I'll take either +10% Falloff or +7.5% Tracking per level for my Jag.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.28 02:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 27/10/2009 20:43:42
One of the biggest AB bonused AFs flaws was "immunity to scrambler". Doing 1,2-1,5km/s and being immune to scrams is wrong. And now you propose that ship should do 1,5-2,5+ km/s and be immune to scrams? Dream on.
Yeah, except you get 500% more sig, which effectively nullifies the speed boost from a MWD, tracking wise, at cost of 25% of your cap and not being able to permarun it to begin with.
Compared with a boosted AB which takes bugger all cap, makes you approximately 5 times harder to track and is easier to fit plus permarunnable, well... the MWD bonus is certainly less OP.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.28 05:10:00 -
[33]
Am I the only one who never MWDs once I get into range? After a web or two you're easier to hit with your MWD on than off, why would you want to keep it on?
CEO, Agony Unleashed |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.28 10:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Stuart Price
Edited by: Stuart Price on 28/10/2009 00:58:49
They all need their fourth bonus, tied to AF skill:
Harpy: +5% shield resistances per level
Hawk: +10% explosion velocity per level (+change the damage bonus to match the Kestrel)
Enyo: +10% falloff per level (oops, forgot it already had a tracking bonus)
Ishkur: +10% drone optimal/tracking OR maybe speed (both MWD and orbit) per level (I'm loathe to give them the usual HP/damage bonus)
Retribution: +1 mid slot
Vengeance: rockets get fixed.
Wolf and Jag I've never flown, but some form of agility/sig/speed based bonus maybe?
Also: Fix rockets. A LOT of frigates would become very, very viable indeed with rockets fixed.
With a fourth bonus in place, I'm not sure AF's would NEED a role bonus.
Fixed amarr for you.
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Marcus Alkhaar
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2009.10.28 11:09:00 -
[35]
Assault frigates could do with a -7.5% cap use on small armor repair/small shield booster per level.
It won't nerf the passive tanked assault frigates as a single small rep usually have to rep ~18 cycles to compete with a passive tanked assault frigate which is fully cap stable.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.10.28 11:47:00 -
[36]
While you talking about 4th bonus for afs... first some afs /heh/ need to be fixed, because they are total trash compared to the ishkur and jag /or give them individual 4th bonus that will make them comparable to jag and ishkur/.
And retri - it needs +1 mid. Every combat ship /except some ewar and logis/ needs to fit a point. For "it brings dps to af gangs" crowd - you are ******s.
I cant stand these ppl in fleets, totally ignoring primaries, shooting random inties, that are not doing anything, but when fleet have to gtfo and enemy tacklers are chasing us, their "antitackler" retributions /ab fitted ofc - you always have to be capstable/ are leaving heavier ships behind.
...but it looks so good being top damage dealer on km, right?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
While you talking about 4th bonus for afs... first some afs /heh/ need to be fixed, because they are total trash compared to the ishkur and jag /or give them individual 4th bonus that will make them comparable to jag and ishkur/.
And retri - it needs +1 mid. Every combat ship /except some ewar and logis/ needs to fit a point. For "it brings dps to af gangs" crowd - you are ******s.
I cant stand these ppl in fleets, totally ignoring primaries, shooting random inties, that are not doing anything, but when fleet have to gtfo and enemy tacklers are chasing us, their "antitackler" retributions /ab fitted ofc - you always have to be capstable/ are leaving heavier ships behind.
...but it looks so good being top damage dealer on km, right?
Sounds like you have bad pilots in a good ship tbh.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:37:00 -
[38]
More like bad pilots in bad ship.
Ishkur can easily bring dps AND point to the gang. And maybe some ewar too.
Retri is just worthless atm, only some ppl do not understand it.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Christina Bamar
Am I the only one who never MWDs once I get into range?
I don't do it either. Ofc the MWD makes you easier to hit when webbed. Hell, on some heavier ships with a plate or something, even not being webbed when MWD-ing makes you easier to hit (and particularly in orbit, where topspeed is less then max straightline).
But MWD gets you on top of targets when fitted to a frig hull in seconds, and once you're up close, your base velocity makes you hard to hit. If you couldn't be scrambled, it just means you typically could not prevent AFs from getting to hugging range and would have to deal with them there.
It's not a bad idea as such, and not really OP since MWD does not give you a massive boost to damage mitigation.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
More like bad pilots in bad ship.
Ishkur can easily bring dps AND point to the gang. And maybe some ewar too.
Retri is just worthless atm, only some ppl do not understand it.
Its easy to tell you have never flown retris.
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Smabs
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:48:00 -
[41]
The main problem with an AF is simply the cost. They really, really need to have the material price cut down so that you could buy one for around 12 mil or so. A few little boosts to some of the less used ones would be awesome, too.
And I think everyone agrees that rockets need fixing.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.10.28 12:56:00 -
[42]
Yes baltec, tell me that 180 dps of retri is much more usefull than 160 of ishkur or harpy /rails!/.
Yes, my fault, i know that 20 dps more is always better than bringing a point...
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Mish'Kala
Minmatar
Eye of Osiris
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Posted - 2009.10.28 13:28:00 -
[43]
Sorry, I must have missed it. Can someone link the Dev post that says the AB bonus has been scrapped please.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.28 16:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Yes baltec, tell me that 180 dps of retri is much more usefull than 160 of ishkur or harpy /rails!/.
Yes, my fault, i know that 20 dps more is always better than bringing a point...
The ishkur needs its drones to do that damage it also does not have the gun range or tracking nore can it tank as well a retribution not to mention most ishkurs are fitted with a MWD so their sig is massive and with my range advantage I will land at least two perfect hits before its guns even flare up.
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Col Angus
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Posted - 2009.10.28 20:49:00 -
[45]
I quite like the idea of shielded MWD's on all "Assault" ships.
LetÆs face it, a competently piloted t1 cruiser will destroy any AF (please note competence is required), and itÆs well established that BCÆs commonly outclass HACÆs.
This would give the t2 ôAssaultö class ship a nice niche, while not making them over powered.
They would still have huge sig rads, 1pt & 2pts would still stop them from warping, and neuts/nos/webs still work on them.
They would now have a roll that could not be duplicated by a t1 ships for a fraction of their price. There should be something special about all t2 ship classes. The only thing special about the Assault class of ship currently, is that its isk sink to usefulness ratio sucks worse than all other ship classes.
And for those of you that would complain that they can escape too easilyàguess what, if they are running away, they are likely no longer a threat to you either.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.28 22:32:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/10/2009 22:33:07
Originally by: Col Angus
I quite like the idea of shielded MWD's on all "Assault" ships.
LetÆs face it, a competently piloted t1 cruiser will destroy any AF (please note competence is required), and itÆs well established that BCÆs commonly outclass HACÆs.
This would give the t2 ôAssaultö class ship a nice niche, while not making them over powered.
They would still have huge sig rads, 1pt & 2pts would still stop them from warping, and neuts/nos/webs still work on them.
They would now have a roll that could not be duplicated by a t1 ships for a fraction of their price. There should be something special about all t2 ship classes. The only thing special about the Assault class of ship currently, is that its isk sink to usefulness ratio sucks worse than all other ship classes.
And for those of you that would complain that they can escape too easilyàguess what, if they are running away, they are likely no longer a threat to you either.
Well, escape too easily... there's the whole place between 10.8km and 13km which you have to get out of. Not so easy, and you might just run out of EHP doing it. Definitely wouldn't be unkillable, particularly with the way the MWD increases your sig so that tracking is not a problem.
That said, it preety much would obsolete scram-only fits (unless they have neutralizers or something) for tackle.
I can't say I would cry about it, since webs would still largely work, but would have to consider it a bit more before coming to a conclusion.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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