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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 13:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
So some of the high sec miner types are all up in arms because people are killing their "max yield but not enough tank to stand up to a destoyer" Hulks. I imagie the silent majority are simply taking the more than reasonable counter-steps needed to frustrate the gankers, but this goes out to the stubborn foot stomping entitled few who thinks to game working as intended is somehow wrong.
Talk to High Sec Mission runners.
I'm serious. Just talk to them.. They did this thing called "ADAPTING" and it's must less profitable/satisfying to screw with most of them now.
You see, in the past, some Mission runners felt like the game owed them to right to put full officer fits on mission running ships (these were the "Max-yeild Hulks of mission running"). Well, some other folks used in game items (ship scanners, probes ect) and mechanics (suicide ganking) to take these things away from the super shiney mission runners. Some (the weak) quit in frustration.
The rest (the strong) stopped putting so much shiney crap on mission ships (and/or filled their fracking EM hole on their tengus lol) and are still quietly mission running in high sec to this very day.
The "Incursion Communities" (rofl) just experianced this too. They were doing their own max yeild thing. Then players came in and killed the mother ship or join tehir fleet and withheld reps or simply suicide ganked them out of their 5 bil isk Nightmares/vindicators ect. Then CCP came down from on high and killed the farmable things.
The dedicated incursion runners (the strong) are still at it, the oppurtunistic, fair weather, incursion gold miners (the weak) are long gone, hopefully never to return.
So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the storong survive, the weak perish after multiple General Discussion forum whiney posts. I'm just glad dinosaurs didn't have forums, or Asteroids would have been nerfed eons ago.........And then what would miners mine? |
baltec1
1432
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Posted - 2012.06.12 13:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thankfully there are still a lot of mission runners and haulers who don't fit a good tank or do silly things. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.06.12 13:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 13:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them.
I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction".
By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.06.12 13:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Savage Angel wrote:Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them. I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction". By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol.
Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems. |
baltec1
1432
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 13:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:
Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.
Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
78
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Posted - 2012.06.12 13:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Confirming I have a giant EM hole on my mission runner. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.06.12 13:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Savage Angel wrote:
Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.
Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.
You talk like finding a more enjoyable leisure activity for your time and money is giving up. That I really don't get. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
342
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 13:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
313
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 13:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah, a bog standard T2 fit Raven or Abaddon does the trick for me in level 4's depending on who I'm fighting. I do own a CNR, which is admittedly faster at missioning, but I rarely bother flying it anymore. Missioning gets a bit stale after a while. |
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Kiteo Hatto
The Fiction Factory Blue Nation
196
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Posted - 2012.06.12 14:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
The reason why mission runners don't buy officer stuff is because of its price, we would rather buy a few pvp ships instead of getting a few % on some stat :)
Each of us mission runners have our own dps/tank balance that we prefer.
You can't really compare a combat/non combat ship activity. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
168
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Posted - 2012.06.12 14:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1280
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 14:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I run with standard t2 stuff all day everyday. If I do get ganked, well, it would pretty easy to replace.
I lol'ed at both posts above... Agreed! |
Kiteo Hatto
The Fiction Factory Blue Nation
196
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Posted - 2012.06.12 14:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.
I'll assume that they will use the "eve that i liked is dead" excuse when you tell them to HTFU and link that music video multiple times in a thread. Followed by many "GG CCP U CATERd carebears" threads on GD by pvp masters. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 14:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.
"EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge.
EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place?
The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?
This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game".
Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 14:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.
I disagree fully. In fact I find your stance to be seriously self- serving.
People have been "greifing and ganking" in eve since day one, and day one started YEARS ago lol. People like you have predicted doom from the start, mainly because you can't understand that everyone else isn't you, and as many people have a higher tolerance for the things you don't like.
If it worked that way, why isn't EVE dead yet? If greifing and ganking (two things the game makers damn near advertise as FEATURES) is so bad, why havne't YOU left yet?
People always predict that some change to the game (that negatively affects them personally) will somehow lead to the death of eve or some major change. I've never seen it happen.
The only (gameplay related)thing that could kill eve are change so major that negatively affect an over-whleming majority of players (like, as an extreme example, CCP removing the ability to undock from a station lol). Players killing hulks in high sec isn't something on that scale, not by a long shot.
i'm not a ganker, I'm a null sec pvp'r and explorer (nullbear if you prefer lol), and I'm even religiously anti-goon (down with something aweful i say). But I'm anti-weak minded entitlement loving blood sucker more than I'm anti-goon lol.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
189
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Posted - 2012.06.12 14:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
'Tis true, my son. You are strong now.
Your 2 bil tanked Hulk now takes 2 catalysts to pop instead of one. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
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Posted - 2012.06.12 15:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?
If people whining on the forums bothers you...that makes you weak. |
MasterEnt
MGroup9
83
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Posted - 2012.06.12 15:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong? |
baltec1
1433
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
MasterEnt wrote:Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?
Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers
U-boats vs merchant ships
Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate
Spanish gold ships vs gallions
Trade hulks vs triremes
Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different? |
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Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
82
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:MasterEnt wrote:Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong? Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers U-boats vs merchant ships Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate Spanish gold ships vs gallions Trade hulks vs triremes Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different?
Not to mention ganking in hisec has been nerfed over hte years and CONCORD buffed. Gankers seem to have adapted. Regardless of the point that killing a defenseless ship is not a feat of strength, the resolve to find a way to do so in an ever increasingly difficult environment is what makes them strong. |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
MasterEnt wrote:Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?
Please explain to me how losing your ship and all your stuff isn't weak
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
234
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:So some of the high sec miner types are all up in arms because people are killing their "max yield but not enough tank to stand up to a destoyer" Hulks. I imagie the silent majority are simply taking the more than reasonable counter-steps needed to frustrate the gankers, but this goes out to the stubborn foot stomping entitled few who thinks the game working as intended is somehow wrong.
Talk to High Sec Mission runners.
I'm serious. Just talk to them.. They did this thing called "ADAPTING" and it's much less profitable/satisfying to screw with most of them now.
You see, in the past, some Mission runners felt like the game owed them to right to put full officer fits on mission running ships (these were the "Max-yeild Hulks of mission running"). Well, some other folks used in game items (ship scanners, probes ect) and mechanics (suicide ganking) to take these things away from the super shiney mission runners. Some (the weak) quit in frustration.
The rest (the strong) stopped putting so much shiney crap on mission ships (and/or filled their fracking EM hole on their tengus lol) and are still quietly mission running in high sec to this very day.
The "Incursion Communities" (rofl) just experianced this too. They were doing their own max yeild thing. Then players came in and killed the mother ship or join tehir fleet and withheld reps or simply suicide ganked them out of their 5 bil isk Nightmares/vindicators ect. Then CCP came down from on high and killed the farmable things.
The dedicated incursion runners (the strong) are still at it, the oppurtunistic, fair weather, incursion gold miners (the weak) are long gone, hopefully never to return.
So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish ( but only after multiple General Discussion forum whiney posts, of course). I'm just glad dinosaurs didn't have forums, or Asteroids would have been nerfed eons ago.........And then what would miners mine?
another pontificating high horse post... I was hoping you'd say something new.. but nope. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1476
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.
Weak = making fun of those people.
Mr Epeen There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Thankfully there are still a lot of mission runners and haulers who don't fit a good tank or do silly things.
Specific rat tankers are ubber intelligently fitted ships !! -specially with officer/dead space mods all over their slots !
Amirite?
brb |
Scien Inkunen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 17:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game. "EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge. EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place? The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right? This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game". Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive.
Strong survive - my ass. Wolf pack survive. Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life ! |
Partii Boii
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 17:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP disagrees with you - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880 |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 18:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think you have read wrong. When did I say anything about ccp agreeing or disagreeing?
I said that the REAL incursion community (strong) adapted, the fair weather crowd (weak) bailed. Nothing ccp does to incursions changes this.
MasterEnt wrote:Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?
Please explain to me where I said this....
But since you mention it, I admire how the gankers and many, many high sec miners have adapted to changing circumstances rather than whine. I am not a ganker, but I do like the fact that the game has some avenue to allow the rest of us to affect the high sec/concord protected people who think they should be able to dump mins on the market with no chance of interference.
Mr Epeen wrote:Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun. Weak = making fun of those people. Mr Epeen
I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?
If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?
This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.
I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 18:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scien Inkunen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game. "EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge. EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place? The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right? This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game". Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive. Strong survive - my ass. Wolf pack survive.
Join wolfpack?
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Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 18:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bossy Lady wrote:MasterEnt wrote:Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong? Please explain to me how losing your ship and all your stuff isn't weak
I do not know about loosing ALL your stuff but loosing ships does not mean you are weak. Not sure if your question makes sense or.... |
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