Not sure if it is strong vs weak or just committed vs not. The ones that left adapted as well, just in a way that fit them.

I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction".

By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol.

Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.

Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.

My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.

You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.

My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?

Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers

U-boats vs merchant ships

Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate

Spanish gold ships vs gallions

Trade hulks vs triremes

Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different?

Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?

So some of the high sec miner types are all up in arms because people are killing their "max yield but not enough tank to stand up to a destoyer" Hulks. I imagie the silent majority are simply taking the more than reasonable counter-steps needed to frustrate the gankers, but this goes out to the stubborn foot stomping entitled few who thinks the game working as intended is somehow wrong.

Talk to High Sec Mission runners.

I'm serious. Just talk to them.. They did this thing called "ADAPTING" and it's much less profitable/satisfying to screw with most of them now.

You see, in the past, some Mission runners felt like the game owed them to right to put full officer fits on mission running ships (these were the "Max-yeild Hulks of mission running"). Well, some other folks used in game items (ship scanners, probes ect) and mechanics (suicide ganking) to take these things away from the super shiney mission runners. Some (the weak) quit in frustration.

The rest (the strong) stopped putting so much shiney crap on mission ships (and/or filled their fracking EM hole on their tengus lol) and are still quietly mission running in high sec to this very day.

The "Incursion Communities" (rofl) just experianced this too. They were doing their own max yeild thing. Then players came in and killed the mother ship or join tehir fleet and withheld reps or simply suicide ganked them out of their 5 bil isk Nightmares/vindicators ect. Then CCP came down from on high and killed the farmable things.

The dedicated incursion runners (the strong) are still at it, the oppurtunistic, fair weather, incursion gold miners (the weak) are long gone, hopefully never to return.

So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish ( but only after multiple General Discussion forum whiney posts, of course).
I'm just glad dinosaurs didn't have forums, or Asteroids would have been nerfed eons ago.........And then what would miners mine?

Thankfully there are still a lot of mission runners and haulers who don't fit a good tank or do silly things.

"EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge.

EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place?

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game".

Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive.

CCP disagrees with you - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880

Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?

Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.

Weak = making fun of those people.

Mr Epeen

Strong survive - my ass. Wolf pack survive.

Please explain to me how losing your ship and all your stuff isn't weak

Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.

I think you have read wrong. When did I say anything about ccp agreeing or disagreeing?

I said that the REAL incursion community (strong) adapted, the fair weather crowd (weak) bailed. Nothing ccp does to incursions changes this.



Please explain to me where I said this....

But since you mention it, I admire how the gankers and many, many high sec miners have adapted to changing circumstances rather than whine. I am not a ganker, but I do like the fact that the game has some avenue to allow the rest of us to affect the high sec/concord protected people who think they should be able to dump mins on the market with no chance of interference.





I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?

If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?

This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.

I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same.

Playing something for pleasure your not enjoying is not adapting, its stupid.

Tal

You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.

Sorry you can't call a player weak just because the game dynamics change they don't enjoy it and move on, thats just dumb.

Tal

I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)?

You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.

Holy crap!

Have you even been reading the forums for the last few months? Are we even playing the same version of EVE?

I won't bother quoting or responding to the rest of that diatribe as it's all straw man.

Mr Epeen

Replace the words:

'How tough you are' with 'Having the right attitude to enjoy the game to its fullest'

'Badass game' with 'Challenging'

Looks like you don't like challenging games or have the right attitude to enjoy this game to its fullest and are jealous of others who do.

Replace the words:

'How tough you are' with 'Having the right attitude to enjoy the game to its fullest'

'Badass game' with 'Challenging'

Looks like you don't like challenging games or have the right attitude to enjoy this game to its fullest and are jealous of others who do.

My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.

I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?

If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?

This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.

I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same.

Stop right there.

What game dynamics changed (for miners)?

Your sense of self entitlement about judging people is bigger than miners' and it's not a small feat.

EvE for you might be a life defining, most paramount important value, where you measure your mettle against whoever (the gimps of course).

For everybody else, this is a GAME, a pass time, one of many. Not even the best of them.

They don't have to demonstrate YOU how good or survivalist or adaptable they are. They do it all their life by managing their job, their family, their business. Not some pixel based bullsh1t.

If they log in 10 minutes to relax, then guess what, they are not in the "I will measure who has the best e-hard on" mood.

Therefore their decision to stop one of the secondary hobbies and switch to i.e. building airplane models or crafting plywood figurines is none of your business. It's none of your right to judge on WTF everybody else do with their paid time.

Lol why anyone would have to justify to you why they join or quit EvE "or else they are weak". Get a grip.


Also - and this is truly ridicolous if it was not sad - for 1 miner who created a thread to cry, there are 10 threads of self-promoted badasses schooling an absent audience. No one gives a crap about those who can't tank an Hulk - not even the other miners - except you who for some reason feel this irresistible need to teach everybody else how to be a Strong Man.

weak and strong?

Try living through a deployment to a 3rd world country, then we'll talk weak and strong.

This is just a video game.

Some people

At the risk of injecting more "IRL" stuff, i'm a police officer when i'm not at home blowing up people in space ships. I work in a low income area, does that count?

lol

The point is, people demonstrate character with their actions. The miners complaining about something that has always existed are demonstrating bad character.

At the risk of injecting more "IRL" stuff, i'm a police officer when i'm not at home blowing up people in space ships. I work in a low income area, does that count?

lol

The point is, people demonstrate character with their actions. The miners complaining about something that has always existed are demonstrating bad character.

But i'll adress one simple point. They made it my right to judge them in public by complaining in public. If a person simply quits the game or quits mining over the ganking but remains silent, I still have a negative opinion of them, but won't go out of my way to say it.

But these guys are doing it on the forums. Thus my suggestion to take a page from mission runners (who gave up some isk making ability by taking off the officer mods lol).

So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish

My question is this: when EVE is made safer, which is the inevitable result of too much suicide ganking and griefing, when it begins to seriously harm the population growth, what will the gankers and griefers do? Will they adapt too? Or will they quit in frustration? That'll be the ultimate irony, if all these "hardcore" players ragequit.

Boll*cks


and it hasn't always existed


Tal

People demonstrate their character trough how they use their brains and then the action they take upon the thinking process.

[quote=Scien Inkunen][quote=Jenn aSide][quote=Andoria Thara]weak and strong?

......... :) ).

Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.

Real life is not video games. I adapt to and overcome obstacles in real life every day. Most people play video games to escape that.

I know you probably got confused by the "Eve is real" trailer. It was SO good and realistic.

That's a strawman argument, I don't know why people wanted to inject RL into the idea.

That players made the wrong choice by coming to eve is not CCPs fault.

That's a strawman argument...

Real life is not video games. I adapt to and overcome obstacles in real life every day. Most people play video games to escape that.

I know you probably got confused by the "Eve is real" trailer. It was SO good and realistic.

When you ignore something and someone points it out, its not a strawman.

People pay for this game with real world currency. Therefore their enjoyment level is absolutely critical to CCP's success, no matter what your opinions are.

When you ignore something and someone points it out, its not a strawman.

People pay for this game with real world currency. Therefore their enjoyment level is absolutely critical to CCP's success, no matter what your opinions are.



Quote of the year 2010, when CCP hit its high point for subscriptions.

9 years and still growing. Seems people are happy with the way EVE works.

The game is 9 years old and has less subscribers than 2 years ago. CCP admitted that they almost went bankrupt over player exodus.

"9 years old and still growing" is not accurate at all.

"9 years old and growing" is true, but not the whole story.

"9 years old and growing towards a point it had once been" is the intellectually honest way to word what you are trying to say.

9 years and still growing. Seems people are happy with the way EVE works.

EVE is being devalued by its own players. CCP have given people a sandbox, and there's a whole bunch of players who are basically just shitting in it.

Seems like the guys on the other side of the fence have relaxed with the posting.

Imagine if the guys on this side of the fence did the same?

The fact that there's a "fence" is the whole problem.

Please link said CCP statement of almost going bankcrupt over a player exodus.

Please link sub numbers because the ones I am looking at show EVE grew to well past 400k subs last year dispite the troubles.

The fact that there's a "fence" is the whole problem. When EVE started, there was no "fence", and for many years there was no "fence". Now there's a "fence" - funnily enough, coinciding with a slow-down in EVE's previously seemingly inexorable rise.

Don't kid yourself, there's always been a fence.

Those that don't want FFA pvp, and those that do.


Thakfully CCP has a world that works for everyone. Unfortunetly neither side is willing to stop with the posting.

It was one of the first things talked about at fanfest, it has had articles dedicated to it in gaming periodicals, and you could google the financial information for yourself, and people did so and posted the information right here in this forum. It is also visibly demonstrate-able by logging into the server, or observing it via the API system.

Can't we all just get along?

According to Dr. E, that's not good for Eve.

So I guess we get more abloobloobloo.

Obviously, the game thrives on conflict, but in the old days, it was roleplaying conflict (I don't mean in a "heavy" way, like serious RP-ers do, but in a loose general, rp-lite sort of way - i.e. the players in the game were into the idea of this big, s-f universe, and into the idea of imaginatively putting themselves in it).

Or to put it another way: in the old days, it was EVE players against the world. All of us, PvP-ers and PvE-ers alike, were proud to play in a wonderfully-realized s-f game that had full-on FFA open-world PvP because that made it a more realistic, MORE ENGAGING virtual world.

Now it's EVE players against EVE players.

That's the "fence" and IMHO that's the reason for EVE's bumpy subscription ride atm.

Obviously, the game thrives on conflict, but in the old days, it was roleplaying conflict (I don't mean in a "heavy" way, like serious RP-ers do, but in a loose general, rp-lite sort of way - i.e. the players in the game were into the idea of this big, s-f universe, and into the idea of imaginatively putting themselves in it).

Or to put it another way: in the old days, it was EVE players against the world. All of us, PvP-ers and PvE-ers alike, were proud to play in a wonderfully-realized s-f game that had full-on FFA open-world PvP because that made it a more realistic, MORE ENGAGING virtual world.

Now it's EVE players against EVE players.

That's the "fence" and IMHO that's the reason for EVE's bumpy subscription ride atm.

Then you should be able to provide evidence for your wild accusations then.

Either Eve players were originally against Eve players, or they weren't. RP reasons have nothing to do with it anymore than strategic or tactical ones do.

But I think they did, in the "good old days". Nowadays, the metagame has taken over to such an extent that what was originally in-game conflict in in-game terms is bleeding out to two camps of players who are paranoid that the other camp is ruining their game experience.

That didn't used to be the case. In the old days, the carebear vs leet pvp-er stuff was just joshing, mostly done with a sense of irony, because pvp-ers understood that miners were important, and miners understood that pvp-ers were important TO THEIR RESPECTIVE GAMES.

Nowadays, it's serious biznes - stuff is at stake. Some pvp players really are paranoid that carebears will ruin their sandbox. Some pve players really are paranoid that pvp-ers will ruin their sandbox. So the PvP is bleeding through into the real world a bit. One camp of players wants the other camp of players to GTFO of EVE.

Originally, both camps were united against players who didn't like EVE. Now two camps of players who do like EVE are at each others' throats, and there's a lot of imaginary accusations about motivation flying around.

"A kingdom that is divided shall not stand" - Mark 3:24

But I think they did, in the "good old days". Nowadays, the metagame has taken over to such an extent that what was originally in-game conflict in in-game terms is bleeding out to two camps of players who are paranoid that the other camp is ruining their game experience.

That didn't used to be the case. In the old days, the carebear vs leet pvp-er stuff was just joshing, mostly done with a sense of irony, because pvp-ers understood that miners were important, and miners understood that pvp-ers were important TO THEIR RESPECTIVE GAMES.

Nowadays, it's serious biznes - stuff is at stake. Some pvp players really are paranoid that carebears will ruin their sandbox. Some pve players really are paranoid that pvp-ers will ruin their sandbox. So the PvP is bleeding through into the real world a bit. One camp of players wants the other camp of players to GTFO of EVE.

Originally, both camps were united against players who didn't like EVE. Now two camps of players who do like EVE are at each others' throats, and there's a lot of imaginary accusations about motivation flying around.

"A kingdom that is divided shall not stand" - Mark 3:24

please point out the patch notes for the patch that introduced suicide ganking, thanks.

Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers

U-boats vs merchant ships

Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate

Spanish gold ships vs gallions

Trade hulks vs triremes

Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different?

You conveniently forgot to include what happened to those engaging in Piracy activities. Granted there will always be a small amount of Piracy happening in isolated areas but history has shown time and time again when it becomes a large scale activity affecting the welfare of citizens, the Authorities will hunt them down, kill them and or force them into hiding.

Seems it's always the same MO with players who advocate and try to justify the massive increase of Suicide Ganking in this game. Always trying to 'Rationalize away' opposing statements using broad 'Generalizations' presented with half truth 'Examples'.

Confirming I have a giant EM hole on my mission runner.

Why are they up in arms? Partly because of the month long 9.95 $/Gé¼ new account sale (even cheaper on Stream for a week or two). There are lots of new players, and they're accustomed having things handed to them in other MMOs. They've just begun EVE's painful learning process.

Also, when you say "some of the high sec miner types" are up in arms, you mean a handful of very verbal forum posters. Most new players that do enjoy the game probably don't feel as tempted to post on the forum. So the overall attitude of the GD is biased in favor of whining players.

You conveniently forgot to include what happened to those engaging in Piracy activities. Granted there will always be a small amount of Piracy happening in isolated areas but history has shown time and time again when it becomes a large scale activity affecting the welfare of citizens, the Authorities will hunt them down, kill them and or force them into hiding.

Seems it's always the same MO with players who advocate and try to justify the massive increase of Suicide Ganking in this game. Always trying to 'Rationalize away' opposing statements using broad 'Generalizations' presented with half truth 'Examples'.

Religious implication of the quote notwithstanding, Eve Online is not a kingdom.

Also, when you say "some of the high sec miner types" are up in arms, you mean a handful of very verbal forum posters.

"EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge.

EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place?

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game".

Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive.

If people whining on the forums bothers you...that makes you weak.

Join wolfpack?

So much wrong here.

But i'll adress one simple point. They made it my right to judge them in public by complaining in public. If a person simply quits the game or quits mining over the ganking but remains silent, I still have a negative opinion of them, but won't go out of my way to say it.

But these guys are doing it on the forums. Thus my suggestion to take a page from mission runners (who gave up some isk making ability by taking off the officer mods lol).

In my country (I'm American), some people like to throw up the whole "I have a right to free speech" thing when you say something against them. That's true,YOU do, so do I.

I'm not ccp, I can't force them to stop complaining, but by complaining without trying to adapt 1st, they consent to me and others calling them names like "weak" lol, just like how undocking in eve is consenting to pvp.........

The point is, people demonstrate character with their actions. The miners complaining about something that has always existed are demonstrating bad character.

But if ccp keeps suppording these types of players

Sadly, I would wager that the strongest among us are the miners. How many of us could sit here and do what they do? It's mind-numbing, and rather tedious.

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec. At least in nullsec you have the time to dock up at a POS if you see a neut in local, you only have 4 seconds in hisec and even then you might mistake the incoming ship for a returning industrial if you aren't on top of things every second. This is simply begging for a nerf like a buff to the Hulk and Mack or an even more powerful concord. I heard the same screaching when people were flying HACs at 10km/sec, how they deserved to fly these ships and their prey deserved to die because they were stupid, it was unbalanced and the balance was corrected. They cried and moaned that they would quit the game. Every time something gets overpowered it gets nerfed. Hisec ganking of Hulks deserves a nerf.

The real problem here is that nullsec alliances seem to need to generate content for their players. They should have better things to do with their time and isk than grief miners in hisec. Stuff like this never happened when people were fighting wars in nullsec. Now its one giant blue mob versus a few scattered alliances. That too deserves to be nerfed. This is blatant evidence that 0.0 is broken and giant flows of passive moon isk are making alliances fat beyond what they know what to spend their money on. Don't be suprised if ring mining destroys moon mining as an isk making operation. If that happens you will have the ultimate irony take place, the people griefing miners will have to turn to carebears and renters as a source of income to fund their pvp operations.

I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec.

Nowhere in EVE is ever truly safe. Never has been and never should be.

EDIT: Also, people have a chance to hide in nullsec because the players have established a way for intelligence to be gathered so their members can be more secure. This is not necessarily handed to them, but worked for.

Well, kind of, local isn't really 'working for intelligence', but the intelligence network I suppose requires effort to establish.

not weak just dumb

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

For PvP and like to encourage more of it? Or perhaps you are an industrialist with a specific focus in game not directly concerned with PvP skilling to be effective at your role and therefore ineffective to apply teeth in response to criminal activities?

Want to validate a potential Career path in GëívGëí with new income potential that is ideally designed as simply a transferance of ISK from one pilot to another?

Actually like situations where ships shoot back and "really" improve your KB resume as opposed to simply suprising soft industrial targets?

You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in GëívGëí where acceptance of risk is an everyday seperator of those getting ahead on the curve, criminals included, to ensure the game evolves instead of being kept dumbed down?

Or simply want to make GëívGëí less boring with adding more fun and challenging gameplay elements?

Would like to see CCP finally correct a long standing broken mechanic in the game which at best provides an exploit for the effected criminal party to profit further from and yet has been left in the game still?

"It's going to be awesome."

"It's absolutley on the list of things to do."

"We have a spaceships game, but you can't be han solo or boba fett, that's not clever."

How ?

Tal

You conveniently forgot to include what happened to those engaging in Piracy activities. Granted there will always be a small amount of Piracy happening in isolated areas but history has shown time and time again when it becomes a large scale activity affecting the welfare of citizens, the Authorities will hunt them down, kill them and or force them into hiding.

Seems it's always the same MO with players who advocate and try to justify the massive increase of Suicide Ganking in this game. Always trying to 'Rationalize away' opposing statements using broad 'Generalizations' presented with half truth 'Examples'.

I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec. At least in nullsec you have the time to dock up at a POS if you see a neut in local, you only have 4 seconds in hisec and even then you might mistake the incoming ship for a returning industrial if you aren't on top of things every second. This is simply begging for a nerf like a buff to the Hulk and Mack or an even more powerful concord. I heard the same screaching when people were flying HACs at 10km/sec, how they deserved to fly these ships and their prey deserved to die because they were stupid, it was unbalanced and the balance was corrected. They cried and moaned that they would quit the game. Every time something gets overpowered it gets nerfed. Hisec ganking of Hulks deserves a nerf.

The real problem here is that nullsec alliances seem to need to generate content for their players. They should have better things to do with their time and isk than grief miners in hisec. Stuff like this never happened when people were fighting wars in nullsec. Now its one giant blue mob versus a few scattered alliances. That too deserves to be nerfed. This is blatant evidence that 0.0 is broken and giant flows of passive moon isk are making alliances fat beyond what they know what to spend their money on. Don't be suprised if ring mining destroys moon mining as an isk making operation. If that happens you will have the ultimate irony take place, the people griefing miners will have to turn to carebears and renters as a source of income to fund their pvp operations.

Out of those 4k miners 99% had no or near to no tank.

Just be aware that just trying to use bling wont really help you.

Better advice

However, adaptation to a point whilst neccesary for the mining contingent needs to stop when people start prescribing "how" you should play, but the application of a tank is pretty obvious in improving your survivability.

So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish

Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.

Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.

Did-¦nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don-¦t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don-¦t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?

the prices of officer/X-type items are set by the players, they're not intrinsic. So they're worth what we all on aggregate say they are.

That said, they're popular and useful for Titan/Supercarrier fits.

I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec.

Its these types of players that are supporting CCP, silly. Check the map population.
We are in highsec because we like doing stuff in peace(not 100% safe mind you), you are in hisec because you want to ruin our days because you are too bored with your space.

Hisec and newbies see EVE as a scifi game with a bit of risk and lots of free choices, they enjoy it
You see it as a constant kill or be killed game, you enjoy it. What they don't enjoy is being constant victims unless they start seeing the game through your eyes. At that point EVE becomes a game that they don't want to play.

PEWPEW all the way..

Did-¦nt read the whole thread, so excuse if mentioned before.

OP, you are right, as sad as it is.

On the other hand, why does these "shinys" still exist? Do only the dumb buy them for multiple billions and fit them to their Pirate faction ships? Every sane mission runner knows that they make HUGHE gank magnets. Will you fit them to your PvP ship? Lol, no for sure.

When missioning, you are perfectly fine T2 fitted, and you even don-¦t need a Vindi (or so) to do every mission, a Domi will do the Job as well, but you might need 5 minutes longer.

Still the question is, what shall i do with them, if (and i don-¦t have any) i get my hands on such? Collectors item?

I can see what you mean, but I tend to think of adapting as "somehow continuing on in the same general direction".

By your logic, people who commit suicide are simply adapting to the preassures of real life lol.

Its a game ... ffs

Utter bullshit. 4k hulks destroyed and the price of minerals has gone DOWN. That's how many bots there are in this ******* game.

Yeah exactly, talk of "weak and strong" is as absurd as talk of "sociopaths".

It seems that both "sides" have a blind spot in their EVE - they actually think that rl "rules" apply in the game in some way, and that in-game behaviour should reflect rl personality.

It's all make-believe, kids.

Hate on each other in-game, in character, all you like, but let's stop this divisive nonsense in the EVE community of players.

So long as CCP has a rule that means some places are safer than others, because "policed", there will always be a reasonable expectation of greater safety in those areas. So griefers can't expect a free ride.

So long as CCP has a rule that means nowhere is absolutely safe, there will always be a reasonable expectation that ganking ought to be possible anywhere in the game - although more difficult and costly in the high security areas than anywhere else. So carebears need to always be alert.

These two have to be balanced - whether CCP have the balance right is always up for debate, but that there must be a balance, and that both PvE and PvP playstyles have a place in the game, ought to be beyond dispute.

Lol.

Go into work tomorrow and tell them;

"I play a sci-fi space game on the internet. I fly around all day after work and kill miners. I kill the same person over and over until the game is unplayable to them. I send them hate mail after I kill them, and I try to extort protection money, and don't honor the bribe afterwards. They have to either pay real world money to keep playing the game or quit. Its so fun."

That won't make you a "sociopath", but you will be viewed as a total douche henceforth.

Yes, well, you see, that's the difference between real life and games.

There's really no alternative to going to school, so you have to live with the playground bullies, adapt, fight back and in some way survive. There's no alternative to having a job, so you have to find your way around the abusive boss, the obnoxious twunt next desk and so on - you can be self-employed but it's still a job, and unless you're self-employed collecting coconuts on a deserted island, you still have to interact with the occasional obnoxious twunt. You fight back, you adapt, you spend your teen years headbutting bullies until they leave you alone (or you go all Stockholm Syndrome, decide they really are the cool kids and after a few years you become a Goon - but I digress) or you decide you really need to take another route to get home after school. It's called real life.

This. Is. A. Game. The options are different. Quitting is not like quitting school. In fact it's a perfectly reasonable option if your idea of fun is doing something that is impossible to do in Eve.

Continuing in the same general direction means "having fun playing an online game". You adapt by playing a game where you can have fun, as opposed to a game where the environment forces you into activities that are not fun for you.

Repeat with me: It. Is. A. Game.

Edit: I'd like to point out that this is not (yet) the case for me. I have fun playing Eve, I'm a carebear, I've been ganked a number of times, it's part of the game. I find PvP boring (I had a PvP toon - I trained, I won some fights, I lost others, well, I really lost more than I won but it's normal, ended up being so bored I sold it) and I enjoy mining and building. There are risks, I accept them. Others might not.

Lol. While in your playstyle it may be perfectly fine to complete missions in twice the amount of time, in mine only "the dumb" run missions slowly.

I take it you don't use artillery then... or missiles.

Lasers or hybrids?

The amount of forum posts I see, usually about the same crap over and over, makes me wonder who exactly is logged in and playing atm.

Ok, dear sir!

And how many L4-¦s do you have to run to compensate the loss of your +5b officer fitted Nightmare, cause of beeing ganked for the lulz.?

Another Waste-of-Time OP.

Tank as normal for Max, and keep eyes on Local.

Done and done. End of story.

And how many L4-¦s do you have to run to compensate the loss of your +5b officer fitted Nightmare, cause of beeing ganked for the lulz.?

[quote=Ban Bindy]

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

Hmm... Reading just a few pages on EVE forums clearly indicates that it's the griefers and suicide gankers who whine the most? So who are in truth really adapting? By even starting this post you made it clear who is not adapting atleast.

Hmm... Reading just a few pages on EVE forums clearly indicates that it's the griefers and suicide gankers who whine the most? So who are in truth really adapting? By even starting this post you made it clear who is not adapting atleast.